Brexit and its implications for British, HU and any other citizens

Fred wrote:

I saw that Eddie Murphy film many years ago, and I suspect there's a lot of truth behind the humour.
There is no argument many countries are extremely corrupt, but that is hardly an excuse for others to do the same.

a shocking number of EU politicians wrote:

It's fine for us to steal your money because we steal a lot less than some others. Be thankful we don't steal more and keep voting for us - Well, at least vote for the elected thieves because you can't touch the unelected ones.

Truth in movies, lies in news. that's how it goes.
The truth is in our faces but it is hidden in humor or in a semi-fictional movie.
As those in the past who lived behind the "iron curtain" learned to do, we must learn to read between the lines. They never want to tell us the truth directly because we would all revolt.

I'm revolting 😁

Fred wrote:

I saw that Eddie Murphy film many years ago, and I suspect there's a lot of truth behind the humour.
There is no argument many countries are extremely corrupt, but that is hardly an excuse for others to do the same.

a shocking number of EU politicians wrote:

It's fine for us to steal your money because we steal a lot less than some others. Be thankful we don't steal more and keep voting for us - Well, at least vote for the elected thieves because you can't touch the unelected ones.

Let's see what happens - Boris is in Luxembourg today to "negotiate" with Juncker. 

Pff...negotiate what?! 

He don't even know if he'll be in power tomorrow! 

They are rolling out a damage limitation exercise at the moment but it's just pathetic spin trying to "up" BoJo.

Bloke on the radio just said it'll be effectively a coup for JC to win a vote of no-confidence making BoJo a puppet of the opposition.  But no-one is going to let JC have even a whiff of power.  They'd rather fall on their swords whatever that means!

Fred wrote:

I'm revolting 😁

Me too, a new me too movement has been born!!

Revolting people stand together, smelly and making uncouth noises as a group.

However, parliament really should vote for an election to test the will of the British public to put up with traitors and fools.

However, the traitors and fools (most MPs being the latter) don't went it because they know the public have them sussed for the corrupt dogs they are.

I will now pass wind in a noisy and smelly manner unbefitting an English gentleman.

Fred wrote:

However, parliament really should vote for an election to test the will of the British public to put up with traitors and fools.

However, the traitors and fools (most MPs being the latter) don't went it because they know the public have them sussed for the corrupt dogs they are.

I will now pass wind in a noisy and smelly manner unbefitting an English gentleman.

I think I've given up....it's total nonsense now.  There's no significant progress and Boris insulted the Luxembourg PM by not turning up.  People don't forget. 
If it was raining, he could have had an Trumpian excuse.

BTW, you could have said blow a raspberry instead.

Yep.  The raining ruse was something the Brits used to get themselves out of a potentially embarrassing situation.  Quite a clever strategy by the EU though, scheduled a Press Conference in an outdoor courtyard adjacent to an area they had allocated to protestors, with a wrought iron fence between them; they have since claimed that it was to enable those not supporting no-deal to have their say, to facilitate that, they gave them a PA system to ensure their voices were heard.  When Johnson was told, he told the Luxembourg Prime Minister either move it indoors (with the "rain" excuse), or I'm off, the rest is history.

If the EU were trying to force the UK to leave without a deal, they couldn't have tried any harder.

Cynic wrote:

Yep.  The raining ruse was something the Brits used to get themselves out of a potentially embarrassing situation.  .... he told the Luxembourg Prime Minister either move it indoors (with the "rain" excuse), or I'm off, the rest is history.

If the EU were trying to force the UK to leave without a deal, they couldn't have tried any harder.

Actually  the killer for me today was Guy Verhofstadt's speech at the Lib Dems conference.   

Killed any hope I had in them to break the deadlock especially the ridiculous amount of applause he was given.   Verhofstadt and his side kicks in his office are arrogant.  Not the kind of behaviour we want in politicians.  I'm a liberal but I'm not in favour of an EU empire.  We don't need that kind of fighting talk. We need level heads, not extremists.

At the risk of invoking Godwin's law, I've just been watching the Rise of the Nazis on BBC iPlayer. The style and delivery of Verhofstadt's speech would have fitted right in.

Yep - his reference to an EU Empire is a bit scary; yet on LBC Radio today were people phoning in saying it's the saviour of the UK.

Cynic wrote:

Yep - his reference to an EU Empire is a bit scary; yet on LBC Radio today were people phoning in saying it's the saviour of the UK.

Good to know LBC reaches you too!

I was just listening to Ian Dale on LBC and I didn't hear any callers saying that but then again I was only half listening as I was doing something else at the same time.  The caller from Luxembourg was given a lot of air time but my eyes glazed over and I lost all will to go on.

I did have vague hopes in the LibDems as somehow holding the balance of power and a being a voice of reason for a compromise but I've given up on them now.   

It's shame on me because I thought they weren't that bad until that nincompoop Clegg stuffed everyone on university fees.  And then, to make it worse, he joins Facebook as a political spin doctor.  As he's half-Dutch he'll (and you in Enschede) know that if I call him a klootzak I'm not on his side. 

Looks like that theme is continuing in the Lib Dems.

Cynic wrote:

Yep - his reference to an EU Empire is a bit scary; yet on LBC Radio today were people phoning in saying it's the saviour of the UK.

Avoiding Godwin's law at least in naming, that total and utter twit sounded way too much like a desk thumping dictator for my tastes.
European empire - seriously?

Cynic wrote:

Yep.  The raining ruse was something the Brits used to get themselves out of a potentially embarrassing situation.  Quite a clever strategy by the EU though, scheduled a Press Conference in an outdoor courtyard adjacent to an area they had allocated to protestors, with a wrought iron fence between them; they have since claimed that it was to enable those not supporting no-deal to have their say, to facilitate that, they gave them a PA system to ensure their voices were heard.  When Johnson was told, he told the Luxembourg Prime Minister either move it indoors (with the "rain" excuse), or I'm off, the rest is history.

If the EU were trying to force the UK to leave without a deal, they couldn't have tried any harder.

It was a lovely propaganda coup, but too obviously a set up for anyone with a brain to accept.
Those with brains will see this as the EU interfering in UK politics to further their own causes, much like the blackshirt emulating Limpdems trying to sell out their country to an unfriendly foreign power.

Cynic wrote:

Yep - his reference to an EU Empire is a bit scary; yet on LBC Radio today were people phoning in saying it's the saviour of the UK.

Scary? It's positively dangerous.

On a less than serious trolling forum I use, I suggested the EU might fund IRA attacks in order to reunite Ireland by force, but it was simply a daft troll on a forum where that's the norm. However, listening to that idiot makes me wonder how far some in the EU would actually go in order to create a European empire.
As for LibDems cheering that dangerous fool, I had very little time for them before because I believed them to be harmless idiots, but I'm unsure about the harmless now.

Fred wrote:

....
As for LibDems cheering that dangerous fool, I had very little time for them before because I believed them to be harmless idiots, but I'm unsure about the harmless now.

Harmless idiots in politics?  No such thing!  Useful idiots ...maybe ...depending on what you want out of it. Verhofstadt  has now rubbed me up the wrong for sure - EU-reich for a 1000 years? I don't think so.  How that bloke keeps his job, I don't know. 

As I said, I was watching The Rise of the Nazis, and it's all really interesting parallels - how Kurt von Schleicher, a German general,  had an ridiculous arrogance to believe he could manipulate German democracy by persuading von Hindenburg (German President at the time) to install  a "useful idiot" in the form of Franz von Papen as Chancellor.   Von Papen tried to make an alliance with Herr Hitler by installing himself as vice Chancellor because Hitler has a massive majority in parliament. Thereafter, it was downhill all the way to make Hitler Chancellor.  Schleicher was murdered by the SS eventually and the useful idiot von Papen survived the Nuremberg wall trials.   

Not quite thought through the parallels but it's clear there are lessons to learn.

Incredible to believe the narcissism, vanity, arrogance and plain stupidity of a few can bring so much calamity to the world.   Remarkable to just see with the benefit of hindsight how things fall into place.

fluffy2560 wrote:

EU-reich for a 1000 years?

It sounded far too much like that's what he was saying for comfort

fluffy2560 wrote:

EU-reich for a 1000 years? I don't think so.  How that bloke keeps his job, I don't know.

That's a consideration. If someone acting very much like a Nazi keeps his job, one has to assume people support his opinions.

Just been taking a look at Guy's history.
Seems he's a bit of a failure that lurched from crisis to crisis, eventually ending up where many failed prats end up, the EU parliament.

More worrying again, he said ..

that Brexit is a "tragedy for Europe" but had the effect "that the European idea is more popular than ever."[44] In February 2019, Verhofstadt claimed Brexit leaders such as Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg would suffer a similar fate to the leaders of the French Revolution and "end up on the guillotine".[45]

EU empire and heads being chopped off - OUCH!

Fred wrote:

Just been taking a look at Guy's history.
Seems he's a bit of a failure that lurched from crisis to crisis, eventually ending up where many failed prats end up, the EU parliament.

More worrying again, he said ..

that Brexit is a "tragedy for Europe" but had the effect "that the European idea is more popular than ever."[44] In February 2019, Verhofstadt claimed Brexit leaders such as Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg would suffer a similar fate to the leaders of the French Revolution and "end up on the guillotine".[45]

EU empire and heads being chopped off - OUCH!

I read that Verhofstadt quote as well.  It's extremist nonsense.  The guy must have been a smooth political operator to be PM in Belgium as that's a fragmented place that could fall apart any minute.  But from that quote, I wonder if he's got something wrong with his brain chemistry.

I was watching the Luxembourg PM Bettel's "podiumgate" speech earlier on and I wonder what he was on - he said Teresa and the government approved the Brexit agreement. 

It's all irony. Bettel skipped over the fact that democracy means it has to be approved by the UK Parliament or indeed the parallelling the "democratic majority" of the EU27.   While he mentioned the parliament he obviously knows that without that it goes nowhere. It's just the reality.

So that's another person who is out of touch with reality. While I appreciate the frustration of the subject, it's not rule by decree matey (Mr Xavier Bettel) despite BoJo wanting it!

Fred wrote:

Revolting people stand together, smelly and making uncouth noises as a group.

I forgot to include this picture for your wall Fred. You could put it alongside Marge:

I'll skip that snap. The vast majority of that bunch aren't worth the piece of photo paper, and that's Tories, Labour, limp dems, and the rest.

No bias here, most are gits, even in monkey form, but I do find it a shade insulting to monkeys.

UK and EU Politicians - Definition

People who don't give a flying rats about anyone as long as they get their share of the loot.

Fred wrote:

UK and EU Politicians - Definition

People who don't give a flying rats about anyone as long as they get their share of the loot.

Apart from that, any more in-depth analysis? Anecdotes on Brexit?  Any effect from Brexit for you in Indonesia?  Sounds unlikely but possibly worth asking.  Thoughts on today's Supreme Court outcomes?

Shame you didn't like the picture. I thought it was quite good.  Points if you can guess who painted it!  It's an easy one to find out!

fluffy2560 wrote:

Cynic wrote:

Yep - his reference to an EU Empire is a bit scary; yet on LBC Radio today were people phoning in saying it's the saviour of the UK.

Good to know LBC reaches you too!

I was just listening to Ian Dale on LBC and I didn't hear any callers saying that but then again I was only half listening as I was doing something else at the same time.  The caller from Luxembourg was given a lot of air time but my eyes glazed over and I lost all will to go on.

I did have vague hopes in the LibDems as somehow holding the balance of power and a being a voice of reason for a compromise but I've given up on them now.   

It's shame on me because I thought they weren't that bad until that nincompoop Clegg stuffed everyone on university fees.  And then, to make it worse, he joins Facebook as a political spin doctor.  As he's half-Dutch he'll (and you in Enschede) know that if I call him a klootzak I'm not on his side. 

Looks like that theme is continuing in the Lib Dems.

Listened to LBC for years; it was on the Tom Swarbrick show (is it only me that dislikes calling what LBC does a "show" when it's an opinionated rant in many cases?).  Anyway, as an unknowing LibDem voter for 24 years (that's another story), I did have some hope for politics in general when we had a hung parliament that would force some kind of unity government, but I guess I failed to consider that it was politicians I was talking about.

As for klootzak, you may recall that UK car registrations include a 3 letter section; my wife and I used to have a little snigger to ourselves every time we saw a "KUT", or a "LUL" variant, it became a family joke and you would even hear our kids pipe up from the back of the car "keek is mama, er komt weer 'n kut auto" (excuse my bad Dutch); anyway, we would award people who did significantly stupid things in the UK with the "Grand Order of the KUT auto", Clegg received many such awards during his time in office, to the extent that we began referring to him as Meneer de Kut Auto.

Anyway, we now all wait for the verdict of the Supreme court to take us to the next stage of this farce.

Cynic wrote:

....
Listened to LBC for years; it was on the Tom Swarbrick show (is it only me that dislikes calling what LBC does a "show" when it's an opinionated rant in many cases?).  Anyway, as an unknowing LibDem voter for 24 years (that's another story), I did have some hope for politics in general when we had a hung parliament that would force some kind of unity government, but I guess I failed to consider that it was politicians I was talking about.

As for klootzak, you may recall that UK car registrations include a 3 letter section; my wife and I used to have a little snigger to ourselves every time we saw a "KUT", or a "LUL" variant, it became a family joke and you would even hear our kids pipe up from the back of the car "keek is mama, er komt weer 'n kut auto" (excuse my bad Dutch); anyway, we would award people who did significantly stupid things in the UK with the "Grand Order of the KUT auto", Clegg received many such awards during his time in office, to the extent that we began referring to him as Meneer de Kut Auto.

Anyway, we now all wait for the verdict of the Supreme court to take us to the next stage of this farce.

Dunno if you know this but Swarbrick is actually French - I mean totally French.  His parents are French and he's got a French passport.  Presumably he's got a British passport as well.  All seems a bit odd really that he was an advisor to No. 10.  If you want a ranter, it's James O'Brien.  My personal favourite is Nick Abbott.  I listen to it a lot.  I was a Radio 4 devotee but given up except for the odd programme.

I like Dutch things - I know what all those words mean. I used to be quite OK in Dutch - I've even got a certificate in it.   One of my fave places and a place I feel very comfortable in.   Goed zo.  Oh, btw, there's a BBC news video on  families who traded all their UK passports and became naturalised Dutch citizens.  Looks like a trend!

Meanwhile, over in HU, we also have 3 letter registrations - three letters and three numbers. I've seen some amusing ones over the years too.  Means nothing to the locals of course but much hilarity in the Fluffy household.

I was amused to see the Supreme Court carpet.  It's got symbols of the 4 nations on it.  Quite a snazzy design.  I believe 11 judges are in on this one - I am looking forward to hearing the legal arguments. It should be a great exercise.  I however think they'll fudge it in some way to let Boris off but force Parliament back.  End of the week we should find out.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Apart from that, any more in-depth analysis? Anecdotes on Brexit?  Any effect from Brexit for you in Indonesia?  Sounds unlikely but possibly worth asking.  Thoughts on today's Supreme Court outcomes?

I've been taking a closer look at Jo Swindon's donors, 2 of whom seem to be foreign nationals, but one is a UK registered company. She's also right on the make from a variety of people with direct interest in the UK remaining in the EU. Even if the donors are legit, she's still worthy of contempt for voting where her cash comes from.

The Java toll road used to end at Brebes so it was the Brebes exit, but Indonesians love to shorten things so Brexit was born, and raised more than a few comments amongst those with eyes on the news.

The great escape is very likely to raise a few issues here, personally in the form of the exchange rate from Sterling to Rupiah, and partially because of trade. World trade is likely to be disrupted to a level and the way trade is conducted within geographical Europe is likely to cause a few bumps over here, especially in places like the one I'm in at the moment as it's a manufacturing and exporting town (at least in part).  Most of the local white guys work in that industry so it could well have an effect on expat employment here, good or bad. My own interest is purely the exchange rate as I still have a little nestegg in the UK. I'm hoping the Pound will rise significantly after Brexit, but that will only happen if whatever government in power gets their collective fingers out and does whatever is required. Trying to hang on to the promises of an idiot across a large pond would be foolish at best so I see, if the government has the slightest bit of brain, the UK reaching out to Asia and the old commonwealth, the latter being the one the UK tossed in the bin in favour of the EU.

Just been reading the supreme court thing and there's no result as yet, but the placards being waved around by noisy protesters with slogans like "defend our democracy", but failing to mention how the UK's people voted to escape and they want to  ignore that.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Dunno if you know this but Swarbrick is actually French - I mean totally French.  His parents are French and he's got a French passport.  Presumably he's got a British passport as well.  All seems a bit odd really that he was an advisor to No. 10.  If you want a ranter, it's James O'Brien.  My personal favourite is Nick Abbott.  I listen to it a lot.  I was a Radio 4 devotee but given up except for the odd programme.

LOL - I knew he'd worked in Number 10, but didn't know he was French, so I just Googled Swarbrick to find out a bit more about him - shock horror, apparently he was an organ builder active in England in the eighteenth century and his nephew was the organist in Hereford Cathedral; just proves you can't believe all that you read on the Internet in general and Wikipedia specifically.

I used to work in radio and will never forget my tutor's words that "above all things, with the advent of moving pictures, radio has to be entertaining to survive" (you could tell he was BBC trained) - for that reason alone I suspect that O'Brien and Fogarty will soon be moving on, probably post-Brexit as they will become incandescent with rage and the advertisers won't put up with it.  As for Abbot, not my cup of tea, using silly noise jingles went out in the 70's.

Fred wrote:

UK and EU Politicians - Definition

People who don't give a flying rats about anyone as long as they get their share of the loot.

I disagree. Too specific. Let me correct that for you:

UK and EU Politicians - Definition

People who don't give a flying rats about anyone as long as they get their share of the loot.

I've been in the bowels of number 10, a strange set of cellars and tunnels with a lot more than coal for fires in there.
However, the whole area seems to be very much full of what bowels usually hold.

Banksy got it right

Cynic wrote:

...LOL - I knew he'd worked in Number 10, but didn't know he was French, so I just Googled Swarbrick to find out a bit more about him - shock horror, apparently he was an organ builder active in England in the eighteenth century and his nephew was the organist in Hereford Cathedral; just proves you can't believe all that you read on the Internet in general and Wikipedia specifically.

That's the fella. If it says it in Wikipedia, it must be right.  Like everything published in the News of the World.

His voice also appeared in the movie Ibiza Undead, a zombie movie.  Unlikely to be a classic worthy of George A Romero's zombie top ten. 

I actually heard Tommo was French when he was interviewed on LBC itself about Brexit.  I expect there's a clip of it somewhere if Google is up to scratch.  It was a couple of years ago.  I was rather surprised.

Cynic wrote:

....I used to work in radio and will never forget my tutor's words that "above all things, with the advent of moving pictures, radio has to be entertaining to survive" (you could tell he was BBC trained) - for that reason alone I suspect that O'Brien and Fogarty will soon be moving on, probably post-Brexit as they will become incandescent with rage and the advertisers won't put up with it.  As for Abbot, not my cup of tea, using silly noise jingles went out in the 70's.

O'Brien used to do Newsnight but I don't think he's hosted it many times.  Fogarty is clearly a heavy feminist as she gets that "You and Yours" type slot. I used to really loathe her but when I'm down the shed, doing something or other, I've got used to her more as background noise and I don't mind so much.  There are rumours I've seen online that she's batting for the other team but obviously that's just gossip.

I like Nick Abbot because he attracts the most loopy of the callers.  Some of them are truly insane and it makes me wonder how they manage to function on a day to day basis with such strange views.  There also many regular callers, some of which clearly get pushed to the front of the queue. I don't always get to listen because he's on a bit late.

What is a bit odd about LBC and the other Global radio stations is that many of these LBC presenters turn up on the stations, sometimes spinning records - Abbot is one of those as is Andrew Castle.  All the adverts are shared.  If anything about LBC annoys me more is the repetitive nature of those stupid ads.

Fred wrote:

I've been in the bowels of number 10, a strange set of cellars and tunnels with a lot more than coal for fires in there.
However, the whole area seems to be very much full of what bowels usually hold.

Ok so that's an anecdote about why you were there?

Not on the 5th November was it?  Are you really Fred Fawkes, Guy's lesser known cousin?

Your latter comment must mean No 2s in No 10.

You get points for Banksy.  £2M if you have spare change from down the back of the sofa.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Fred wrote:

I've been in the bowels of number 10, a strange set of cellars and tunnels with a lot more than coal for fires in there.
However, the whole area seems to be very much full of what bowels usually hold.

Ok so that's an anecdote about why you were there?

You get points for Banksy.  £2M if you have spare change from down the back of the sofa.

Banksy first, and the rather ironic bit about a left wing artist's work going for large sacks of cash. I noticed a few of his works at an exhibition in Jakarta, all at crazy prices there was no way in the wide world I'd even think about.

The rooms under that street are less than open to the public, the security at the entrance I used being testament to that, so perhaps details are best left out. If you've been there, the most interesting bits for me were the exposed walls of the old palace and the room opposite that very famous meeting room that gets a mention on TV from time to time, the one with the electronics playground in it.

Fred wrote:

Banksy first, and the rather ironic bit about a left wing artist's work going for large sacks of cash. I noticed a few of his works at an exhibition in Jakarta, all at crazy prices there was no way in the wide world I'd even think about.
..........
The rooms under that street are less than open to the public, the security at the entrance I used being testament to that, so perhaps details are best left out. If you've been there, the most interesting bits for me were the exposed walls of the old palace and the room opposite that very famous meeting room that gets a mention on TV from time to time, the one with the electronics playground in it.

Banksy's become a bit of a superstar for his social commentary but he does leverage his fame for good works.  There's that door at the Bristol youth club which was sold to secure the future of the youth club.  There's also the Port Talbot artwork for a town's tourist survival that's essentially a half defunct steelworks.   So in the general scheme of things he gets more credibility than some others.   

More on topic....I was rather surprised to see his EU fallen star had been painted over.   That could have sold for millions.  It was due for an update post-Brexit.

The Supreme Court goings-on are being streamed live.  I'm not going to watch  as I've got Brexit fatigue. I think I'll just go with the day to day summary or just wait for the video omnibus edition unless it turns into an exciting Match of the Day.

Things got more interesting in the Supreme Court.   I am sure the government will lose now.  I think it's come down to who has sovereignty and that has to be Parliament. 

The BBC reported the following (with my highlighting):

One of the judges, Lady Black, asked how could Parliament apply a check on government once it is "removed from the picture" due to prorogation.

But Sir James said it always and inevitably had the effect of limiting debate in Parliament, and MPs could resume their scrutiny once the suspension was over.

...not appropriate for the courts to "design a set of rules" about how long a suspension should last, he said.

.....a key issue was the scope of parliamentary sovereignty.

Lord Wilson also asked Sir James why no witness statement had been provided by a minister to explain why the prorogation decision was taken.

Sir James told the court he would present a written statement setting out what the government would do if it lost the case.

It's fairly obvious to me that BoJo does not have the authority to prorogue Parliament without their permission.  I also think the written statement in case the government loses is to avoid scrutiny.  Basically BoJo is behaving like Charles I and we all know what happened to him.

My prediction is that we'll get an answer very quickly but they will skirt the issue of if BoJo lied to Liz to avoid the country being effectively leaderless.   Parliament will then be reconvened to debate next steps but I expect it'll end in a decision for an election, Brexit will then be postponed until the middle of 2020, earliest March 2020.  It might even  be halted for years or Clause 50 withdrawn.

Clause 50 will hang about in the background casting a shadow over the whole political establishment, nay.... theatre. It'll be like a hidden deranged serial killer relative chained up in the attic, ready to spring out at any moment.

If the court decides it has authority over the PM, there's a whole can of worms opened that will very likely come back and poke future PMs right in the eye, and it also leaves the future question as to if a court can overrule other decisions made by a PM on any other matter.

I see John Major (The Grey man) came out in favour of this going to court, yet that most boring politician in the world, a man who ran away from the circus to become an accountant, did exactly that back in 1997 to avoid debate on the cash for questions affair. How come he felt it fine to get rid of parliament in the hope of protecting his bent mates, but this time he wants to stop it in order to enrich his bent mates?

If this finds against Boris the Gob, that means the courts are a higher power than the PM, and that could well be disruptive of future decisions in time of crisis.
One (maybe) point, and I'm no lawyer so this is more of a question that a point, and open to error.

Treaty of Rome
The  The European Court of Justice has power over the UK's courts on some matters, those being, as I understand it, anything that applies in EU law, so does that mean, if this case is lost, a British PM could be taken to an EU court over a matter regarding the EU if the EU considered the PM to have broken EU law?

If that possibility is potentially open, the supreme court must find in favour of the PM in order to avoid a possible massive political crisis in the future.

Last point - Parliament is asking for effective power over the PM, but Parliament's power comes from the people and the people have voted in favour of leaving the EU. One has to wonder if Parliament can be taken to court using the same set of ideals if they try to revoke article 50.

Fred wrote:

If the court decides it has authority over the PM, there's a whole can of worms opened that will very likely come back and poke future PMs right in the eye, and it also leaves the future question as to if a court can overrule other decisions made by a PM on any other matter.

I see John Major (The Grey man) came out in favour of this going to court, yet that most boring politician in the world, a man who ran away from the circus to become an accountant, did exactly that back in 1997 to avoid debate on the cash for questions affair. How come he felt it fine to get rid of parliament in the hope of protecting his bent mates, but this time he wants to stop it in order to enrich his bent mates?

If this finds against Boris the Gob, that means the courts are a higher power than the PM, and that could well be disruptive of future decisions in time of crisis.
One (maybe) point, and I'm no lawyer so this is more of a question that a point, and open to error.

Treaty of Rome
The  The European Court of Justice has power over the UK's courts on some matters, those being, as I understand it, anything that applies in EU law, so does that mean, if this case is lost, a British PM could be taken to an EU court over a matter regarding the EU if the EU considered the PM to have broken EU law?

If that possibility is potentially open, the supreme court must find in favour of the PM in order to avoid a possible massive political crisis in the future.

Last point - Parliament is asking for effective power over the PM, but Parliament's power comes from the people and the people have voted in favour of leaving the EU. One has to wonder if Parliament can be taken to court using the same set of ideals if they try to revoke article 50.

That raises a lot of points there. I don't see how the EU has sovereignty over the UK parliament in any circumstances - UK would never pass legislation contrary to EU law.  It's not that off the wall. The EU does not have competence in how the democracy is run - an example being Hungary and the fascist behaviour of Orban.  All it can do is create sanctions. 

I think the question of PM vs Parliament is an eternal one - but the PM only governs with the consent of the people the same as Parliament. 

Casting around for a model, paralleling this with the USA, you have POTUS, SCOTUS and Congress. It's a triangle which bounces off each other to avoid anyone going completely insane.   

This has to be the same kind of idea - the Executive (Boris) cannot stomp willynilly over Parliament and that and the SC will keep him in check.

I'm not going to comment on John "Minor" Major other than his taste in women in the form of Edwina Currie is somewhat suspect.

My curries are enjoyable, hot, spicy, and attractive. John's are less so in every respect.

As for POTUS, he already acts like he's smoking pot regardless of SCOTUS.

The UK parliament is unable to pass any law that conflicts with EU law, so the EU already have the power to stop the UK parliament operating as it wishes. The same goes for ejecting unwelcome people. The UK couldn't dump that idiot Hamza and can't dump EU nationals that commit serious crime in the UK.

Orban , if memory serves, is the guy that used Arthur Finkelstein (A jew) to create an anti Jewish hate campaign built around Soros. Much as he seems to be a less the sort of chap you'd invite to the club for drinks, you have to admire his propaganda.
The EU is all gob but no teeth, so they can't do very much whatever Orban says or does.

Fred wrote:

My curries are enjoyable, hot, spicy, and attractive. John's are less so in every respect.

As for POTUS, he already acts like he's smoking pot regardless of SCOTUS.

The UK parliament is unable to pass any law that conflicts with EU law, so the EU already have the power to stop the UK parliament operating as it wishes. The same goes for ejecting unwelcome people. The UK couldn't dump that idiot Hamza and can't dump EU nationals that commit serious crime in the UK.

Maybe you were thinking of SCROTU*S when thinking of POTUS.

I think saying the EU can stop the UK parliament is over-egging the cake. EU cannot interfere in areas that are NOT their competence.  For example, taxation and social policy is outside their brief unless it's about the single market or something else they like to comment on like Human Rights. But even that's not the EU.  Their interest is generally only the single market as it should be.   In other cases, butt out.   

Fred wrote:

Orban , if memory serves, is the guy that used Arthur Finkelstein (A jew) to create an anti Jewish hate campaign built around Soros. Much as he seems to be a less the sort of chap you'd invite to the club for drinks, you have to admire his propaganda.
The EU is all gob but no teeth, so they can't do very much whatever Orban says or does.

That's absolutely correct.  The irony isn't lost on Hungarians or observers that Finkelstein (from NYC) masterminded the campaign to vilify Soros (another Jew) and to use that as leverage against anyone OV has taken a dislike to - especially those that might hold him to account - i.e. CEU and refugees.  At the risk of invoking Godwin again, it was straight out of the Nazi playbook. The politicos seem to forget Hungary's historical involvement in the Holocaust and moreover, their history of being refugees post 1956. 

But that's not really Brexit, Breakfast, Cricket, Football or even Rugby.

Brexit update:

Monday 23rd (that's tomorrow), we'll find out the answer from the UK Supreme Court.   Bit of a nailbiter.  Don't miss it!

fluffy2560 wrote:

Brexit update:

Monday 23rd (that's tomorrow), we'll find out the answer from the UK Supreme Court.   Bit of a nailbiter.  Don't miss it!

Basically to hear for parliament to be recalled or not.