Business visa denied due to "violating laws of Vietnam" - Blacklisted?

where are u from dude ?

Denmark

It is a scam being run by certain officials. Maybe try for a visa at the local embassy in Hong Kong.

maybe scammed, do u have a company sponsored when u got business visa last time

I see. Is it perhaps more common now before the lunar new year? I heard about pre-lunar new year scams before but in completely different contexts.

In my experience, your case can be explained as follow:

The previous visa agent who helped you to apply for 12-month business visa used a fake profile to apply for you. That means they created a company, and put all their visa Clients as employees of that company, so they can legalise the business visa application.
But those Clients don't actually work for the company, and that company doesn't actually do any business, beside the function of being a company to apply for business visa.

As I've heard, it happens more and more that those business visas are denied and the foreigners who apply for business visa that way (without an actual employer) is denied to enter the country.

I don't really know a solution for this.

kowloon2020 wrote:

PS: I also entered the country (from Hong Kong where I am based) twice in the last 30 days, for short visits. I had no problems entering or leaving, as late as last week.

Assuming all you've written is legit, that (in bold) is a good indicator of you being scammed.

Colin is the guy to listen to about these matters.

I'll only add three things:

1. You can find out for CERTAIN by applying directly through the Embassy of Vietnam.

IF you didn't have your own sponsor for your previous visa--if the VOA agency "filled in the blank" for you with 'XYZ Company in Vietnam'--then you won't be able to get a BUSINESS visa that way.

So you might have to apply for a TOURIST visa in order to get an informative response from Immigration.

2. From what my police (NOT Immigration) friend tells me, it's not necessary to break a law in order to get truly blacklisted for a law violation.

You only needed to piss someone off who had access to your passport and visa information.

For instance, any sort of disagreement at a hotel or with a motorbike rental company or an airline or with a woman/man who has 'gooberment' connections.

Immigration has huge power here to deny your visa request without proven cause.

In the U.S.A., the website for the Embassy of Vietnam has a disclaimer that, even if your visa is issued, Immigration still has the power to deny you entry.

3. If you search the forum for posts about visas, many people have listed their personally trusted VOA agency.

Pick one that looks legit and see if an application goes through with them.

Send me a private message if you want my recommendation.

Hello,

Thank you for your reply.

1. I thought about that, but on a tourist visa I am prohibited from doing what I need to do in Vietnam (I am going there on business). Then I would actually break the law.

2. No, I have never been in any dispute in any form in Vietnam. The worst I could ever think of is canceling a Grab taxi.

3. Thank you, I will send a PM.

KhuyenT wrote:

In my experience, your case can be explained as follow:

The previous visa agent who helped you to apply for 12-month business visa used a fake profile to apply for you. That means they created a company, and put all their visa Clients as employees of that company, so they can legalise the business visa application.
But those Clients don't actually work for the company, and that company doesn't actually do any business, beside the function of being a company to apply for business visa.

As I've heard, it happens more and more that those business visas are denied and the foreigners who apply for business visa that way (without an actual employer) is denied to enter the country.

I don't really know a solution for this.

I suspect you are correct.

This is basically what Colin (and others) have mentioned in the past.

(that's my 'mea culpa', FWIW 😬)

kowloon2020 wrote:

1. I thought about that, but on a tourist visa I am prohibited from doing what I need to do in Vietnam (I am going there on business). Then I would actually break the law.

Perhaps you could be more specific about what you mean by "going there on business"?

Keeping in mind that, according to your VOA business visa, you are doing business with "XYZ company":

Are you simply 'exploring the possibility' of doing further business here?

That probably wouldn't raise a red flag.

Or, are you importing and exporting, in competition with businesses established in Vietnam?

THAT might attract the kind of attention you don't want.

THAT (if reported) would probably be a violation of Vietnam's laws.

What ARE you doing?

Hello,

We're setting up a subsidiary in Vietnam (this actually requires that I am present in Vietnam during the pre-licensing stage). Lately, I went there to gather documents (office lease, document notarizations etc) and signing documents.

It's at a more advanced stage than looking for opportunities but looks like we aren't getting much further than this

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

kowloon2020 wrote:

1. I thought about that, but on a tourist visa I am prohibited from doing what I need to do in Vietnam (I am going there on business). Then I would actually break the law.

Perhaps you could be more specific about what you mean by "going there on business"?

Keeping in mind that, according to your VOA business visa, you are doing business with "XYZ company":

Are you simply 'exploring the possibility' of doing further business here?

That probably wouldn't raise a red flag.

Or, are you importing and exporting, in competition with businesses established in Vietnam?

THAT might attract the kind of attention you don't want.

THAT (if reported) would probably be a violation of Vietnam's laws.

What ARE you doing?

No, nothing like that at all. I have attended trade shows in HCMC and met factories - representing international (potential buyers). But we have never had a dispute of any kind, with anyone in Vietnam. We started the process to set up our own office for internal needs (sales and marketing staff, not to sell in Vietnam).

KhuyenT wrote:

I don't really know a solution for this.

People could start by not getting visas based on phony company relationships as is apparently common in the VOA business.  People write that the officials are pulling a scam but isn't taking a visa based on a company that you never heard of a scam too?  If you don't have a valid business purpose, don't seek and expect a business visa.  People on this site have repeatedly recommended business visas over tourist visas for people who simply want to reside in the country.  They justify it because of the longer duration and not because applicants have a valid business purpose.  This comes back to bite people like the OP who really do wish to come for business.

If you have a valid business reason to travel to Vietnam you should be able to get a visa from a Vietnamese consulate or Embassy.

Of course the authorities are partially at fault for allowing the VOA business to exist in the first place.  Can you imagine your home country surrendering the issuance of visas to a for-profit company?

THIGV wrote:

KhuyenT wrote:

I don't really know a solution for this.

People could start by not getting visas based on phony company relationships as is apparently common in the VOA business.  People write that the officials are pulling a scam but isn't taking a visa based on a company that you never heard of a scam too?  If you don't have a valid business purpose, don't seek and expect a business visa.  People on this site have repeatedly recommended business visas over tourist visas for people who simply want to reside in the country.  They justify it because of the longer duration and not because applicants have a valid business purpose.  This comes back to bite people like the OP who really do wish to come for business.

If you have a valid business reason to travel to Vietnam you should be able to get a visa from a Vietnamese consulate or Embassy.

Of course the authorities are partially at fault for allowing the VOA business to exist in the first place.  Can you imagine your home country surrendering the issuance of visas to a for-profit company?

This scam has happened to people with TRC's and VEC's, it's not based on the business visa.

"In the U.S.A., the website for the Embassy of Vietnam has a disclaimer that, even if your visa is issued, Immigration still has the power to deny you entry."

This is normal for most countries.

I doubt it's a scam because I have not been asked to pay any "clear your name" fee or anything like that. I was told by a contact in HCMC that they have changed some law related to business visas.

Well, we'll see how this turns out

colinoscapee wrote:

This scam has happened to people with TRC's and VEC's, it's not based on the business visa.

VEC too?  That's not good.

kowloon2020 wrote:

I doubt it's a scam because I have not been asked to pay any "clear your name" fee or anything like that. I was told by a contact in HCMC that they have changed some law related to business visas.

Well, we'll see how this turns out

Ask your agent how to solve the problem,I will guarantee the amount is 3000-4000 USD.

$4000 for a 3-month business visa? Oh well, I think I'll think long and hard about that ^^

kowloon2020 wrote:

$4000 for a 3-month business visa? Oh well, I think I'll think long and hard about that ^^

No, 4000 for them to lift the black ban.

Right, but they could then blacklist me again for no reason if it already happened once. As said, I have not had any dispute, overstay or even as much as an angry conversation with anyone in Vietnam. Further, I have not stayed there on a continuous basis so I just can't understand how I managed to violate the laws of Vietnam (or if that is even true).

And thus, it's just as likely to happen again 6 months or 1 year from now, regardless of whether I would pay now.

Well, I think that's enough speculation for today. I'll keep you informed

To the poster Kowloon2020 = if you are legit, go to the Embassy in Hong Kong and apply yourself, don;t use an agent and see what happens - at least then you will be beyond speculating he "What If????"  I was told in email by an agent they weren't issuing one year tourists visa's anymore - I went to the Viet Embassy in Bangkok and got mine four months ago.  but was told with a smile - this type of visa will probably not be given anymore after New year.

tunnelrat69 wrote:

I was told in email by an agent they weren't issuing one year tourists visa's anymore - I went to the Viet Embassy in Bangkok and got mine four months ago.  but was told with a smile - this type of visa will probably not be given anymore after New year.

The one-year tourist visa for Americans was not tied to the TPP (the one year business visa was tied in per reciprocity parts of the agreement) but it appeared close to the same time as the TPP preliminary signings of 4 February 2016.  The first post on the sticky thread here was 14 February 2016.  Perhaps it was just a sweetener for the VN delegates to throw in if things went the way they wanted.  Trump pulled the US out of the TPP in January 2017.  Maybe the powers that be in Hanoi decided that two years was long enough to be nice.

Yes, I was blacklisted with a VEC. Sure hope it was tge last time. I now have a TRC , which must be renewed this year. Will find out then. But I will not try to stay any linger if it happens again. Even though I have a new child and a business. Getting tired of the money game.

Update:

The Danish Embassy contacted the Ministry of Public Security (or something like that) to confirm if this blacklist exists. They replied that you will be informed (denied entry) in immigration when you enter or exit if you are on any sort of watch list.

That never happened to me, so I am still not sure what this is about.

kowloon2020 wrote:

Update:

The Danish Embassy contacted the Ministry of Public Security (or something like that) to confirm if this blacklist exists. They replied that you will be informed (denied entry) in immigration when you enter or exit if you are on any sort of watch list.

That never happened to me, so I am still not sure what this is about.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I was going to post that it seems incredible that a national entity would admit to another national entity that its own visa was not a guarantee of entry right.  I then remembered that the US denied entry to people who had arrived at airports in the US with valid visas during our relatively short lived Muslim ban.  Both instances seem to be driven by rather base motives and as our mothers told us "two wrongs dont make a right"  I do think Colinoscapee has shown us the true Vietnamese motive.  I certainly hope that other countries, particularly their Asian neighbors, apply diplomatic pressure on Vietnam to put a stop to this.

No, I was never denied entry or exit, or even questioned, at any time. What the Public Security Bureau (can't remember the specific name) said was that I would not have been able to do so if I was actually on an official blacklist. Hence, I don't think I am on an official blacklist, but that still doesn't change the situation.

I did not try to apply anywhere else yet (for example the consulate in HK), but I assume the result is the same as the application still goes back to the same office.

I have just been told the same thing.. been in no trouble in and out of the country . Do not rent hotels or use passport ID for hires etc.. Have come off a 12 month business visa (because tourist visas didn’t come in 12 months) reapplied as a tourist visa and denied.  To come off the “ Limited List “ there is potentially a fine of $1700-$2500 ! But not guaranteed.  Otherwise 12 months ban...  I have been in and out - No unusual places- travel on Australian passport..  Only first arrived 2016 - never overstayed.  Fortunately I still have 2 weeks left on my visa when I return end September- had hoped that return would be my visa renewal.  Is it the agent? A scam? Changed visa type???  My agent recommends I get back on the country and then maybe- a big maybe... to get off the list.  Should I check with another agent? Or suck it up and hope the fine works.  The agent said it has happened to a couple other of her clients!   Any insight would be appreciated!

Any update?  Surely we aren’t with the same agent??

I'm a visa agents in HCMC and My company working directly with Immigration Department. Two week agos, they have checked every case that make 1 years visa(not American). If you have 1 years visa but you don't have work permit, you will be added to the blacklist. So I think you are in that case.

Ok, but not all people that need a business visa necessarily need a work permit.  They might just be coming to Vietnam for business meetings- so how does that work?

My re-applied refusal was a tourist visa after coming off a 12 month business visa - surely that should have been ok?  That’s what I don’t understand?   I have 2 weeks to sort it out before it expires after I re-enter.  What are my chances - I guess the “fine” for whatever reason.  If that is even a real option. 

It doesn’t come back to a dodgy agent - even though she has always been highly recommended many times.

Angelaschild wrote:

Ok, but not all people that need a business visa necessarily need a work permit.  They might just be coming to Vietnam for business meetings- so how does that work?

My re-applied refusal was a tourist visa after coming off a 12 month business visa - surely that should have been ok?  That’s what I don’t understand?   I have 2 weeks to sort it out before it expires after I re-enter.  What are my chances - I guess the “fine” for whatever reason.  If that is even a real option. 

It doesn’t come back to a dodgy agent - even though she has always been highly recommended many times.

If you have a 1 year business visa and don't leave for the whole year, immigration can look and see you didnt come here just for meetings.

I posted somewhere on this forum that immigration was looking at people who went from the business visa to a tourist visa.

Angelaschild wrote:

Ok, but not all people that need a business visa necessarily need a work permit.  They might just be coming to Vietnam for business meetings- so how does that work?

My re-applied refusal was a tourist visa after coming off a 12 month business visa - surely that should have been ok?  That’s what I don’t understand?   I have 2 weeks to sort it out before it expires after I re-enter.  What are my chances - I guess the “fine” for whatever reason.  If that is even a real option. 

It doesn’t come back to a dodgy agent - even though she has always been highly recommended many times.

If you need business visa but don't need work permit. You can obtain 3 months visa instead of 1 years visa. By the laws, you can obtain 1 years visa iff you have work permit.

You was being in blacklist because you have 1 years visa but don't have wp, not because you stay overdue so when you go out side you have been already in blacklist and when you came back, you can't entry to VietNam by anykind of visa unless your name be removed out it.

P/s: Highly recommended because it's cheap not because it's useful. So think carefully when you chose the agent.

The agent wasn’t because super cheap - standard and never had a problem with their capacity to approve.  Any ideas how to get off this list??

2 option:
1/ You can wait the immigration remove your name from blacklist. I don't know when they will do it. Maybe 1 or 2 months, 1 or 2 years or never they do it.

2/ Contact a trustly visa agent in HCMC, pay them the money and they will help you remove your name in that list.

Goodluck

Thanks - I thought I had one.  She has said 1 year maybe.. or I pay maybe that will work - but not guaranteed..  so who knows! I don’t.

I was personally advised against getting a 1 year visa recently because, according to my agent, there's a huge investigation underway at the immigration office for those who have been staying without a TRC / VEC and many have found themselves on the blacklist.

Right- Australians can’t get them anymore anyway.  We are down to 3 months regardless of visa type. Guess I got caught up in it all from when I first got it in October 2018