Thoughts on best options on where to buy land in Morocco

Hello

Firstly I would say Morocco is one of the safest places for a woman. You might get lots of attention if you stand out but it’s a safe place compared to say Canada, USA, UK and other western countries.

As for investing to make money, as a non-Moroccan you cant buy farm land - it’s against their law and that’s to protect their economy.

Agadir and Essouria are good costal places to invest in that property is going to hold its value and be easy to sell. Marrakesh would be the best place, in my opinion, to buy a property because it has everything you would expect in a modern city (transport links, shopping, restaurants) and lots of tourism. Renting is a possibility and selling would generally be easier than most places due to supply and demand. I have seen some nice apartments in Marrakesh where you would imagine you could easily rent out and sell for a profit down the line. Money wise I would say Marrakesh is the safest place to invest. The costal places I have visited seemed very expensive for what you got, mainly because a lot of development in a short time and lots of tourists now frequently going. Tamansourt would be a good place to invest, it’s on the outskirts of Marrakesh with lots of new developments. Properties start at around 200k dirams and could be rented out to locals. I looked at a few properties a few years ago their and it’s probably not going to have a high return but seems quite stable and secure.

Ask away if you have any questions and I would be interested to see what you think or do

Hi,

Thanks for your feedback.
I should have mentioned my husband is Moroccan.
He ( which really means WE .... or at least it better !!! ) own 2 properties there in Fez and Taza. 
The money I plan on using to buy the properties is already in Morocco and frankly it is a pain to move it out of Morocco.

I don't want to move to Morocco in complete honesty as I have no issues where I am.
I know he is getting tired of living in Canada so I have to be a bit more reasonable and at least more formally set up a "plan B" life in Morocco.

I am not living in Taza.  Over my dead body.  It is pretty and PAINFULLY boring compared to any major city I have lived in or visited.

I have been to the other places mentioned but they are a bit too south for me.
I seriously want to be able to get in and out of Morocco fast if needed too.  The extra effort and plane or train fare to get more south in Morocco does not seem worth it to me. 
My husband is from North East Morocco and most of his family is there.
It is also a pain to get there from Casablanca.  So I am feeling I want to be in the North part of Morocco.

Regarding your comments on being a woman in Morocco.  I am not sure if you are a woman, but I am and I disagree.  Open sexual harassment is pretty common.  Also sexual stereotypes are common.  I am not going to get more attention because I am "Western".  I can pass for being Moroccan.  I think thing are changing ... but things are still light years away from the freedom I experiences as a women where I am from.

We have to do something with the money soon as it is just sitting there and it is just stupid not to invest it.  I would rather own land.  My husband keeps on almost buying things.  I need this figured out as we are loosing out opportunities by wasting time.

I am trying to narrow things down a bit so I can head over there with him in the summer for a few weeks.  Pick something and get a lawyer to ensure that should something ever happen to my husband my daughter and I get 100% of any assets he has there.  That is the main reason  I am not willing to take even $1 out of my money to invest in anything in Morocco because should something happen to my husband it is going to be a huge pain to get the money back in my pockets.  I am being extra cautious in this area because I have family on both my mother's and father's sides that have lost claims to land and properties in developing countries due to carelessness.

I don’t know that part of Morocco really. My wife’s family is from Marrakesh and Casablanca so never ventured to far from because of the effort of traveling too much. But what about Rabat? I only visited once but I really liked the place and it should be good for airport links to Casablanca. It’s very modern too.

If you got married / live outside Morocco you can make a will and have it registered in Morocco - I don’t know much about it but could be something to look in to

As I said ‘my wife’ I will clarify I am a man (from birth) because how the world is going....so...yes what I meant by Morocco being safe compared to western countries is yes I know women can get lots of harrasment and unwanted attention which I am sure many women find very disturbing but that’s one level. In western countries it’s more serious crimes are epidemic. I live in and am from the UK. It might feel safe but statistically women are a lot safer in Morocco. Everyone gets harassed in Morocco, a lot of Moroccans come begging or try to chat up the women, but generally my point is they have a better moral compass.

Yes I understand the complexity of getting money out of Morocco. If it was me I would buy something in the centre of Marrakesh and rent it out to Europeans. I don’t know much about farming but that sounds a good idea, apart from it can’t be in your name. Does your daughter have Moroccan residency , could you put it in her name

Hi,

I was thinking of somewhere outside Rabat too.  It was on my list of possibilities.  We talked about the idea of vacation rental properties but never firmed plans up.

Moroccan family law is very different.  I don't want to wait until something happens to deal with this.  My husband has 7 living brother and 5 living sisters and apparently the 7 brothers could be entitle to some of his estate under Islamic law and not okay with that.  After his father diet and then mother died a few years later I saw how money hungry people can get as they divided up the estate of the father and then the mother.  At least then the laws did not favour women much.   In has been like 14 years since his father diet and they are still dividing parts of the estate.  Everything legal there takes way too much effort especially as so many people are involved in making decisions in a big family.  I can from a small family and would go nuts having to have the permission of his 7 brother and maybe 5 sisters before I sold anything thing.

You are reminding me of something important to consider.... not getting stuck buying something no where near where I want to be.  I have to balance my desire to make a profit over time vs paying higher for a place somewhere we could enjoy now.  At the end of the day the place will more likely be used by my daughter as I can't see myself wanting to spend long person of time in Morocco each year as I have a established life in Canada.  Not willing to give up my job in Canada to go be a housewife in Morocco.

If we lived closer like in the UK o Europe we would get more use out of any of these properties.... but it is too far to visit more often from Canada.

Re-women and safety.  Men don't really get what it is like to be a woman.  Every time my husband walks away to do something when we are travelling I have someone approach me and as soon as they realize I am with someone they scramble away.  In my experiences, especially in North African and Middle Eastern countries it is the men with the lowest character and the ones  you most likely should just avoid that are the quickest to pester you.  Most men are not like that, but it is the ones that are, and there are enough of them the present the problems.   In most North African and Middle Eastern culture if a man respects you he is not going to be so forward so the advance is not a complement, but rather an insult to you and your family.  Western women travelling in that region need to get that sunk in to their heads.

Good to know there is a difference between owning regular property and farming property.  Because if I can not inherit it....  I am not sure I am willing to invest the money on it.  I am concerned about getting Moroccan residency/ citizenship for either of us as if we ever run in to problems in Morocco the Canadian government will not be likely to get involved and I have had my share of issues in Morocco and little faith in their legal system.

You are right in every words you said .
We are fighting in morocco to cancel the sharia law in inheritance . women should inherit same as men.

urbanshopping101 wrote:

Hi,

I was thinking of somewhere outside Rabat too.  It was on my list of possibilities.  We talked about the idea of vacation rental properties but never firmed plans up.

Moroccan family law is very different.  I don't want to wait until something happens to deal with this.  My husband has 7 living brother and 5 living sisters and apparently the 7 brothers could be entitle to some of his estate under Islamic law and not okay with that.  After his father diet and then mother died a few years later I saw how money hungry people can get as they divided up the estate of the father and then the mother.  At least then the laws did not favour women much.   In has been like 14 years since his father diet and they are still dividing parts of the estate.  Everything legal there takes way too much effort especially as so many people are involved in making decisions in a big family.  I can from a small family and would go nuts having to have the permission of his 7 brother and maybe 5 sisters before I sold anything thing.


You are reminding me of something important to consider.... not getting stuck buying something no where near where I want to be.  I have to balance my desire to make a profit over time vs paying higher for a place somewhere we could enjoy now.  At the end of the day the place will more likely be used by my daughter as I can't see myself wanting to spend long person of time in Morocco each year as I have a established life in Canada.  Not willing to give up my job in Canada to go be a housewife in Morocco.

If we lived closer like in the UK o Europe we would get more use out of any of these properties.... but it is too far to visit more often from Canada.

Re-women and safety.  Men don't really get what it is like to be a woman.  Every time my husband walks away to do something when we are travelling I have someone approach me and as soon as they realize I am with someone they scramble away.  In my experiences, especially in North African and Middle Eastern countries it is the men with the lowest character and the ones  you most likely should just avoid that are the quickest to pester you.  Most men are not like that, but it is the ones that are, and there are enough of them the present the problems.   In most North African and Middle Eastern culture if a man respects you he is not going to be so forward so the advance is not a complement, but rather an insult to you and your family.  Western women travelling in that region need to get that sunk in to their heads.

Yes I understand what you are saying, it’s really sad what’s happened to muslim countries

Good to know there is a difference between owning regular property and farming property.  Because if I can not inherit it....  I am not sure I am willing to invest the money on it.  I am concerned about getting Moroccan residency/ citizenship for either of us as if we ever run in to problems in Morocco the Canadian government will not be likely to get involved and I have had my share of issues in Morocco and little faith in their legal system.

The way I see inheritance is if the wife helped the husband accumulate said wealth then she should take her share before inheritance is split. I mean even if the wife stayed home and looked after house/children and the man went to work you would still say the cost of doing what the woman did would intitel her to a percentage of the wealth if the husband died and then his share is then to be split as inheritance, which the woman would also take a share from. I think Moroccan family law is moving in this direction now but may depend on when you got married. A Canadian will would solve this problem and can be in accordance of sharia. I mean if you shouldn’t have to lose what’s rightfully yours. Many scholars back this approach

Moroccan1 wrote:

You are right in every words you said .
We are fighting in morocco to cancel the sharia law in inheritance . women should inherit same as men.

You obviously don’t have an understanding of sharia law regarding inheritance. May Allah increase your knowledge and guide you. Your comment sounds like a statement of disbelief

Hello khalifa i am muslims and i am totally trying to understand my relgion. And no one of us has the almighty truth . But still some muslim nowday thought that they are only people who own the objective truth, the only people that will go to heaven the only people that god loves them.

You Have to know that sharia law is just laws made by clerics and most of thier laws comes from patriarchal mentality where men control everything  own everything .

In your sharia law the will is not accepted becuz there is hadith that said : “ Narrated AbuHurayrah: I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Allah has appointed for everyone who has a right what is due to him, and no bequest must be made to an heir”

According to this hadith, your clercis dont accept the will that person has left to his family . Yet we have alot of problems in giving everyone his right becuz if you have a family and u have a wife and daughter your brothers can inherit also

Thats why now we are trying in morocco to stop working with the verse of inheritance as we stop working with the verse of cutting hands and salves.  And apply the civil law in inheritance or at least accepte the bequest first as western now do .

Tunsia now is the first country in muslims world stopped working with verses of inheritance and hopefully next one will be morocco .

Before in sharia law didnt permit for women to work as a  judge in court for long time cuz The Prophet (ﷺ) said: "A people who make a woman their ruler will never be successful." [Reported by al-Bukhari].

Morocco now allowed woman to work as judge everything will change in muslim world sooon who still want be controled by sharia law he need to go to saudi arabia and even saudi arabia now with new corwn prince trying to stop this backward



Cheers

Moroccan1 wrote:

Hello khalifa i am muslims and i am totally trying to understand my relgion. And no one of us has the almighty truth . But still some muslim nowday thought that they are only people who own the objective truth, the only people that will go to heaven the only people that god loves them.

You Have to know that sharia law is just laws made by clerics and most of thier laws comes from patriarchal mentality where men control everything  own everything .

In your sharia law the will is not accepted becuz there is hadith that said : “ Narrated AbuHurayrah: I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Allah has appointed for everyone who has a right what is due to him, and no bequest must be made to an heir”

According to this hadith, your clercis dont accept the will that person has left to his family . Yet we have alot of problems in giving everyone his right becuz if you have a family and u have a wife and daughter your brothers can inherit also

Thats why now we are trying in morocco to stop working with the verse of inheritance as we stop working with the verse of cutting hands and salves.  And apply the civil law in inheritance or at least accepte the bequest first as western now do .

Tunsia now is the first country in muslims world stopped working with verses of inheritance and hopefully next one will be morocco .

Before in sharia law didnt permit for women to work as a  judge in court for long time cuz The Prophet (ﷺ) said: "A people who make a woman their ruler will never be successful." [Reported by al-Bukhari].

Morocco now allowed woman to work as judge everything will change in muslim world sooon who still want be controled by sharia law he need to go to saudi arabia and even saudi arabia now with new corwn prince trying to stop this backward

Just a quick observation from what you said. Which is you jumped from saying  ‘laws made by clerics’ to ‘veres in the Quran’ so which ones are you rejecting? Then you said about rejecting Hadith.

Also you need to have some understanding on the issue to be able to correctly talk about it. To help you understand if a husband died with £100000 but his wife spent 25 years helping him accumulate that money then some scholars say she has a right to some of this money, say £50000. The remaining £50000 can then be split according to Islamic rights. We don’t always have to give up our religion and look to the west for the answers. As it says in the Quran Allah perfected our religion, we just have to understand it and implement it correctly

Sorry if I caused offence. Be careful what you type though, you said at the end Allāh sharia is backwards!

Cheers

That is another thing.  I really do not understand the laws in Morocco.  I have already had bad experiences with police is various parts of Morocco "making up" the law to extort money out of my husband and me shamelessly.  Imagine a "police office" paid by the government pulling over out car asking for our idea and tell me I needed to pay a fine because I did not have a visa.  A complete moron who have never left his region in Morocco trying to pull that nonsense and who shamelessly accepted a few smokes to get lost.  My husband claims the government has tightened up on the police for doing stuff like that, but my family left very unstable, crime ridden and corrupt parts of the world so their kids could live in Canada and it is almost like a slap in the face to them for me to give that up so carelessly.  No where is perfect, but I am not feeling like fight to get my property in something happens.  My husband is not stressing too much about this.  His reply is well, "What makes you think I am going to die first : ) !"

I think rural places anywhere are very different to bigger cities.  Which makes me really think maybe buying in the city might be better?

This is the challenge when dealing with laws in different countries.
1. I am married under Sharia Law because I got married in Morocco.  Sharia law means nothing in Canada, but in Morocco it could have some impact on me.
2. My husband family is HUGE.  No kidding like there is an area in his city were mainly people from his family live.  They don't go out of their way to mix with other people as there are so many of them.
3. If I ever got in to disputes with them over land or property if really would take a life time to fight for it and it probably would not be worth it.  There are too many of them.  Also this is old world Morocco I am fighting with so the titles for land etc are a mess.  Every time they want to sell property because the property has been shared between so many people it takes forever to sell things because some people are living in Europe and he is living in Canada.  Nothing if efficient about anything.

The idea of buying properties in a major city and renting them out to tourists is seeming better and better.

urbanshopping101 wrote:

That is another thing.  I really do not understand the laws in Morocco.  I have already had bad experiences with police is various parts of Morocco "making up" the law to extort money out of my husband and me shamelessly.  Imagine a "police office" paid by the government pulling over out car asking for our idea and tell me I needed to pay a fine because I did not have a visa.  A complete moron who have never left his region in Morocco trying to pull that nonsense and who shamelessly accepted a few smokes to get lost.  My husband claims the government has tightened up on the police for doing stuff like that, but my family left very unstable, crime ridden and corrupt parts of the world so their kids could live in Canada and it is almost like a slap in the face to them for me to give that up so carelessly.  No where is perfect, but I am not feeling like fight to get my property in something happens.  My husband is not stressing too much about this.  His reply is well, "What makes you think I am going to die first : ) !"

I think rural places anywhere are very different to bigger cities.  Which makes me really think maybe buying in the city might be better?

Yes that’s a good point about bigger cities having less curuption than rural ones, I know they are trying to improve and apparently have. Must have been awful before.

I mentioned before about renting out a property to Europeans because it’s short term and the pay through agencies. If you get locals in and they don’t pay the rent then it’s good luck with the courts trying to get them out, could take years. It’s just a different system over their, somethings are better and some are worse

I agree that most religious laws don't really get interpreted to favour women.

I was talking with my husband last night and we might be trying to go to Agadir and Marrakech for a few weeks in early July I might reconsider the South.

I  think I might be better off in buying in Casablanca, Rabat, Agadir or Marrakech as someone who does not Speak Arabic.  I think I would have more things to do.  I will also have a better chance making friends with people that do speak English as better access to get out for a quick trip to somewhere in Europe if I was getting bored.  I would also be able to be more independent.  I don't have any interest sitting at home all day doing nothing when I am there.  I likely wont be spending more time there until I am a lot older too.  The farm land idea was only a thought because my husband does have experience running more industrial farms in Morocco and land value almost always goes up, but if something happens to him I wont want to deal with running something like that on my own.

Re not renting to locals.  That is why out other properties are sitting empty.  My husband was just about to rent one and then changed his might last minute because he was scared he would not be able to get them out.

It is also going to be a pain selling the property in Taza because everyone in his family lives in that area so why would anyone from outside his family want to buy there.  The younger people from his family can not afford to buy there and if the females marry Moroccan men from other places they would not be stupid enough to buy a house surrounded by their in-laws family lol.

Can anyone from Morocco suggest any good real estate websites?  I am looking for more sites catered to locals instead of international sites.

maisondemaroc.com and morocco-houses.com are the two I look at.

I have been to Casablanca, Agadir and Marrakesh lots of times over the past 12 years and found lots to do in all the cities. I don’t speak much Arabic either but found lots of people speak English in Casablanca but it was never a problem in the other cities, a lot of people have basic English. Agadir is very expensive in the tourist/harbour area. I went and stayed last year away from this area where the locals live and it was great away from all the tourist commission but still not far from the sea. Casablanca is a big city, I have traveled arround it and it’s busy, lots of traffic. It would be a nice place to live. Marrakesh though has a warmth. The people smile and I always feel at home their. I fond it really easy to meet people their. I like to travel about from mosque to coffee shop to gym and be out the house and experience places I go to and I always found loads to do in Marrakesh and met lots of lovely people. Property in guilez (centre) I’m sure would be easy to sell and rent out.

"Friends" vs opportunists

I am try to be very selective with regards to who I am making friends with when I travel.  I am not looking to make friends with people that are trying to profit off of knowing me.  Sadly I feel tourist attractions are often plagued with people like this.  As I am used to nosey busy cities Casablanca and Rabat might be better options for me in the long term.  My husband has family in Casablanca too.

It is funny when reflecting on what I want  vs what can work.  In my current situation I have a lot of freedom.  I know in Morocco I am going to have a lot less freedom especially because social constraints are going to play a factor.  I am a more artsy and liberal person and my husband is not.  Here I can go off on my own and do things my husband has no interest in.  But there I know he will be more critical of what people think as there are harsher social consequences.

I am feeling more and more Casablanca could be a better choice.
Airport, business centre, shopping and beach prospects.

I need to zoom in on areas with concert venues, shopping, theatres etc.  This is the type of stuff I like doing in my spare time.

I’m an English Muslim so often Moroccans have a lot of curiosity, either about my finances or my religion. If it’s about my finances I demand money from them on the basis of having more children and living in an expensive country

My wife has relatives in Casablanca too and it’s one of my realistic options to move too. Weather is not so hot as the Marrakesh summer. But there are no longer direct flights to the uk, property seems more expensive. If I had to work Casablanca would have more opportunities to teach English but I am better of working in the uk

One thing I don’t like is having to apply for residency, one year, then maybe two or five. Nothing permanent. You being a wife of a Moroccan should be ok though as no finical responsibility to prove.

Good luck with what you chose

I am rejecting the understanding of clerics of the Quran to make their laws based on their patriarchal thinking  i am rejecting hadith so too by the way that was written 200 years  after prophet died .

It looks like you don’t know alot about islam as maybe you just inherited it from ur family, i have deep understanding of a comparative religions . Your clerics in sharia law doesn’t accept the will becuz prophet said “ Narrated AbuHurayrah: I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Allah has appointed for everyone who has a right what is due to him, and no bequest must be made to an heir. So in the court the will not accept a bequest

i will give you another example in sharia law that still in some arab countries and thanks god its not in morocco . in saudia arabia woman cant travel without man محرم  cuz the prophet said : " No lady should travel on a journey of two days except with her husband or a Dhi-Mahram"

Another example woman in morocco before cant work as a judge in court cuz Prophet (ﷺ) said: "A people who make a woman their ruler will never be successful." [Reported by al-Bukhari]. In 2010 morocco was the first country who doesn’t accept this law anymore

Here is a case man died and left wife  and daughter ( man and his wife working all their life to build house ) the man who died has brothers
Daughter will take the one half
Wife will take the one eighth
Brothers will take the rest

My question is why did brother inherit though didn’t pay a penny in that house

Anyway i didn’t say allah sharia i said sharia is made by clerics so clerics’s sharia backward thats why we are calling for secularism where religion to god and nation to everyone and where man and woman has equal right for everything

And sorry to say that you are living in uk you should  be more open  not me who’s living in arab country and more open at the end i want to say “Islamism” must intellectual terminated and “Islam” should be reformed. Islamism is a theocracy that has no place in the modern world. And by reforming i mean renew or update the interpretation

Good night

It is interesting as I am feeling based on what I have seen in my own husband's family and what I read that being a women in Moroccan may have more impact on how I choose to live as it does where I live now.

Why would I want to loose my status as a person?

Where I am I make my own money which I can spend however I want.

I can go and come as I please with only minor nagging from my husband if he disapproves of how late I have returned.

It is funny because I think a lot of my choices on where to buy are going to really have to reflect the fact that I am female and have a daughter that is a young teenager.  I want to be comfortable walking around day and night by myself.  I want to be around less conservative/ traditional people as well.  I also want to be in an area where I am going to be around as much cultural diversity that Morocco has to offer as I am coming from a place were tolerance of cultural and religious diversity in just normal.  I don't want to be stressed trying to fit in or not stand out.

I don't think men actually "really" get how significant it is not to feel comfortable walking alone somewhere in the day or night and how there is a heightened forced need to take in to account personal safety.  So for example you want to wake up really early or stay out very late working out at the gym you likely wont feel the need to be fearful of who is around you or possibly following you.  You wont like me make to feel like you should wearing something not practical to work out in because some man has nothing better to do them stare you down while you are just trying to live your life and mind your own business.

Moroccan1 wrote:

I am rejecting the understanding of clerics of the Quran to make their laws based on their patriarchal thinking  i am rejecting hadith so too by the way that was written 200 years  after prophet died .

It looks like you don’t know alot about islam as maybe you just inherited it from ur family, i have deep understanding of a comparative religions . Your clerics in sharia law doesn’t accept the will becuz prophet said “ Narrated AbuHurayrah: I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Allah has appointed for everyone who has a right what is due to him, and no bequest must be made to an heir. So in the court the will not accept a bequest

i will give you another example in sharia law that still in some arab countries and thanks god its not in morocco . in saudia arabia woman cant travel without man محرم  cuz the prophet said : " No lady should travel on a journey of two days except with her husband or a Dhi-Mahram"

Another example woman in morocco before cant work as a judge in court cuz Prophet (ﷺ) said: "A people who make a woman their ruler will never be successful." [Reported by al-Bukhari]. In 2010 morocco was the first country who doesn’t accept this law anymore

Here is a case man died and left wife  and daughter ( man and his wife working all their life to build house ) the man who died has brothers
Daughter will take the one half
Wife will take the one eighth
Brothers will take the rest

My question is why did brother inherit though didn’t pay a penny in that house

Anyway i didn’t say allah sharia i said sharia is made by clerics so clerics’s sharia backward thats why we are calling for secularism where religion to god and nation to everyone and where man and woman has equal right for everything

And sorry to say that you are living in uk you should  be more open  not me who’s living in arab country and more open at the end i want to say “Islamism” must intellectual terminated and “Islam” should be reformed. Islamism is a theocracy that has no place in the modern world. And by reforming i mean renew or update the interpretation

Good night

I can’t think of any benefit in getting in a conversation with you. I can’t help you and I can’t advise you so all that’s left is to waste my time, which has now reached my limit

urbanshopping101 wrote:

It is interesting as I am feeling based on what I have seen in my own husband's family and what I read that being a women in Moroccan may have more impact on how I choose to live as it does where I live now.

Why would I want to loose my status as a person?

Where I am I make my own money which I can spend however I want.

I can go and come as I please with only minor nagging from my husband if he disapproves of how late I have returned.

It is funny because I think a lot of my choices on where to buy are going to really have to reflect the fact that I am female and have a daughter that is a young teenager.  I want to be comfortable walking around day and night by myself.  I want to be around less conservative/ traditional people as well.  I also want to be in an area where I am going to be around as much cultural diversity that Morocco has to offer as I am coming from a place were tolerance of cultural and religious diversity in just normal.  I don't want to be stressed trying to fit in or not stand out.

I don't think men actually "really" get how significant it is not to feel comfortable walking alone somewhere in the day or night and how there is a heightened forced need to take in to account personal safety.  So for example you want to wake up really early or stay out very late working out at the gym you likely wont feel the need to be fearful of who is around you or possibly following you.  You wont like me make to feel like you should wearing something not practical to work out in because some man has nothing better to do them stare you down while you are just trying to live your life and mind your own business.

I always find it strange how women feel safe in Canada, USA, UK, Australia etc compared to Morocco. Sexual assault, murder, domestic violence are epidemic in these countries. The way of life is get women drunk and take advantage of them. Women are brought up to think that all they have to offer is their looks, that’s their value. Obviously in Morocco women are pushed to fit in to the society their but a lot are now pushing women to follow the western way of life. Certain places if you don’t fit in you are going to stand out. I have the same here in the uk, if I wear Islamic dress in lots of places people are going to be aggressive with me so I can understand where you are coming from. Don’t worry to much, what’s written for you is written so see what happens

You raise some valid points.  I should mentioned I did live in the London, England for a bit while in my early 20s and it is also easy for people to assume that these countries are the same.  I was super shocked to see how common getting publicly drunk was in London.  It was scary.  I don't drink so I don't get why anyone would allow themselves to get that out of control.

Even in these countries and I am sure in Morocco in different parts of the country things are a bit different.

However in my opinion there is significant difference of social tolerance of this in different parts of the world.

In certain parts of the world a woman is still "blamed" for her conduct if she is being harassed.  Lots of victim blaming still going on in many parts of the world including Morocco. 

Anyone watch the movie Razzia?  To me this is a perfect example of my views on Morocco..... a place of extreme contradictions.  So when talking with people from Morocco I try to get a better feel for "who" they are because their version of Morocco  is highly dependent on who they are.  My husband thinks Morocco is this perfect place... but this is a reflection of where he is from in the country and his own personal upbringing in a small city and from a large close net family.  I come from a bigger city and have been around many big cities all over the work I can quickly point out who is a drug dealer, a prostitute, a con-artist etc.  When we were first married it was comical travelling with him.  He was use to being friendly and honest with people and I had to really open his eyes to the reality of living in big cities where you need to be less trusting and more guarded.

I guess in general people from outside any country may have increase fears and stereotypes due to cultural differences.  Some of it is personal and based on how someone is raised.

I don't think men experience the intimidation so they can't understand it.

In Morocco if a woman gets harassed most people are going to blame her in part.  I see and hear it.  Also where I am from there are cameras everywhere.  So if you cross any lines with someone you are going to get hunted down, arrested and charged.  Even taking part in a sexual act with someone who is drunk is illegal and would be considered rape as someone intoxicated can not provide consent.

I cant comment on wearing religious clothes in public in Toronto.  I am so use to seeing people from all sort of cultures wearing ethnic and religious clothes I would not really notice.  I live in a city where immigrants or the descends of immigrants from all over the world are the majority.

I found things in England felt different.

Moroccan1 wrote:

You are right in every words you said .
We are fighting in morocco to cancel the sharia law in inheritance .

I agree with you. We should get rid of the inheritance laws - because of terrible things such as the forced heir-ship . Our family should not have an automatic right to our things. How dare they. So we are no longer required to make adequate provision for dependents, and can leave them destitute if we so wish. We can leave our partner, our own children with absolutely nothing if we wanted, and give anyone we want, yes anyone - including our dog the wealth. How dare our children have a right to our things! Cut them out! Plenty of examples such as this:

Woman leaves £1m to pet dog, instead of her two sons

Moroccan1 wrote:

Anyway i didn’t say allah sharia i said sharia is made by clerics so clerics’s sharia backward thats why we are calling for secularism where religion to god and nation to everyone and where man and woman has equal right for everything

You're contradicting yourself. Because according to the Qu'ran, men and women do not receive equal share, which is something you're calling for. Men are forced to spend their wealth on the family, while the woman, regardless of how wealthy she is, has a right not to spend a cent and keep it all to herself. She has a choice whether to contribute or not. The man does not have this choice.

For Muslim men considering marrying a non-Muslim woman, for your wallets sake, make sure they don't find out about this fact! Heh.

Moroccan1 wrote:

who still want be controled by sharia law he need to go to saudi arabia

This is the kind of comment I expect from an Islamophobe. 'Go and live in Saudi' etc As well as your use of the word 'backward' to describe Islamic laws. I do not expect this from someone claiming to be a Muslim.

Countries with strict Islamic laws such as Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar are constantly criticized by Islam haters. We see in the media, outrage because someone was arrested for having sex in the beach, drunken behaviour, drugs, and other crimes. Now Numbeo is the number one trusted site used here. According to it - Saudi Arabia has a far lower crime index, and higher safety than most countries in the world, including yours. There is a reason for why it is ranked 94/118. Your country is 37/118. UAE is 116/118 and Qatar is 118/118.

Crime Index for Country 2019

Piers Morgan asked a non-Muslim about his thoughts on the strict laws - Look at what he said in response:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahdfA_DJ-0A - Skip to 40 mins.

Anyway I can see why GoldKhalipha decided to stop wasting time responding to an Islamophobe. Good idea. I won't comment further.

It is funny how religious people try to argue that they need to control the choices of others to protect them while doing so much to crush anyone who tries to question them.

Also please do  not assume that the man is going to have more money then the woman.  You ignore how dangerous this system of inheritance is for women especially ones who are housewives.

urbanshopping101 wrote:

It is funny how religious people try to argue that they need to control the choices of others to protect them while doing so much to crush anyone who tries to question them.

Also please do  not assume that the man is going to have more money then the woman.  You ignore how dangerous this system of inheritance is for women especially ones who are housewives.

If you look at country’s that more inclined to follow the Islamic inheritance system you will find it’s often women that have the wealth. Like XB32 said the husbands have to spend on their wife’s and families where the wife doesn’t have this obligation. There are lots of rich Saudi and Kuwaiti women. Morocco is not long out of communism, Marxism and is still economically owned by France. Because of this most of the population don’t have much and this is what causes problems with inheritance. Lots of Moroccans move abroad and find financial security but when someone dies in Morocco they insist on the house being sold so they can have, what is to them a small amount of money, say three months salary.

A lot is said about Islam and controlling peoples choices, especially women. In everything in life I look at the end result. So regarding women; On one side I see women trying to live their life to please their creator, through how they live their life, modest dress, keeping to restrictions and limits. Generally spending their time looking after children. On the other side I see women who have been made to believe their only value is in their looks, in their sex appeal. Freedom and independence is to dress getting close to being naked and having to work full time from 16 to 65. If they have children then a few months off work and then negotiating nursery/school/child care into the working routine with weekends to catch up on shopping and cleaning and everything else. In the uk women, in general, where not part of the work force. Now the 5% that control the wealth have a lot of women slaving away for them. Some women will say I want to be independent and earn my own money, but again looking at the end result, say Saudi women they don’t work and inheritance provides for them nicely and they don’t need to spend it on their husbands and children, where as women in western countries have to bust a gut and it’s fair to say most have to put the money into the family economy. I don’t accept that anyone is independent as I believe we are all independent on our creator but that aside if I was a woman I know which control I would want to be under. I have absolutely no idea about dressing to please the other half of creation, I’m just going on having to work for all them years

XB23 - good reply earlier, I have spoken with that guy before and well enough said

This has been an informative subject. I just want to add my 2 cents. My wife just went through inheritance law (mother, 2 brothers, 5 sisters, and herself). After her Father died, half wanted to sell the house and half didn't at the time because they still lived in the house. This house was right in the heart of Jamaa el Fna in Marrakesh near Cafe France. We'll miss it, because you walk right outside the door and your in the souk. Poor Mom has been housewife all her life taking care of everyone and the grandkids. The siblings that wanted to sell the house drove her nuts and everyone else until they caved in. Just couldn't let their poor old Mom live there in peace until she died. They had their own apartments and wanted the money. I would have bought the house, but that was an issue too.

The reason men get twice as much is because they're suppose to take care of their mother and unmarried sisters, but of course that doesn't happen as it should. Now, poor old Mom and unemployed brother that lived in that house are living with Mom's youngest sister that fears the Almighty Allah.

I don't really agree with this notion that women only need so much from their husband if he dies.  Life cost money anywhere unless you think it is acceptable to die poor old and sick in the streets like a stray dog.

It is outright nonsense.  It suggests a women can and should only want and acquire so much.

Money allows power and better real life control over ones life.

This is not directed towards any specific  religions.  I could ripe in to most religious for this.  It is all about control and other people claiming some devine reason to boss other people around in my option hence why I choose not to actively practice a religion.  I do tolerate the choice of others to follow a religion until it infringes on my rights. 

So my actions as a woman need to be based on my best interests.  Some one advised me on this forum about putting the property in to my daughter's name.  I think that is an excellent idea as at least it helps protect our child and her best interests.

I saw first hand what happens to women who are crazy enough to depend on someone else to financially take care of them and their children all over the world.

Unless a woman wants to risk her safety she needs to be able to secure her future as best as possible.

My mother-in-law may she rest in peace is a perfect example of why a women should always  be educated and have her own means to income.

As a young woman she endured a husband wanting to take a second wife cutting the resources towards her and her children had in half.

Then when her husband died his wives got very little to survive on which left then at the mercy of their children and their spouses of their children.

People can be selfish and greedy.  I had to encourage my husband to inherit the home his mother was living in so she could live there as comfortably as possibly for the rest if her life.   Her greedy daughter-in-laws and children cheated her out of things to the point I have no respect for most of them.  She had things in her possession such a houseware and gold jewlery that disappeared.  Then when we injuries where it was her daughter-in-laws claimed they bought it from her?  What kind of animals buy their elderly mother/ mother-in-laws things.  They should have been looking together to take care of her rather then taking her things and selling them.  She was married to a millionaire and was left in that position.  Over my dead body will that happen to my mother, myself or my daughter.

When you depend on others to take care of you you at their mercy and this is a dangerous position to be in.

I am very happy at least one of my sisrer-in-laws had the sense to open her own business with the money she inherited and I hope for her sake she outlives all of her husband's brothers.

Perfect example of what I mean!!!

I work with people that are dying and I see the greedy that can come out in people.

If someone has to take away choice from their adult children shame on them for not giving them the opportunities to develope these skills.

When you see someone donate their money to things other then their family it is usually to punish them for being neglectful or bad family and it should be their right to do so.

In regards to the women's rights aspect of this.
Women are no less capable then men of making choices in life and for their lives.

Why should one group settle for less options.  Women don't have to be wives, mothers, to work etc.  These are choices.

I would rather have less kids and more money and security for myself and family.  So I choose to do live like this.  Sonecproplrcsee different but who are any of us to choose on their behalf.

If you give someone the information and options that is one thing, but when people are forced there is something wrong with that.

Also please don't use Saudi Arabia for anything.   It is the best example of what is wrong with the world in my opinion.  I happily foresee huge social changes their and pitty women that have to live there.  Even Morocco had to rescue women from their country for Saudi Arabia.

Hi.Don't look for properties in websites and don't even look for a private real estate agent.The only thing you can do is to find a good friend living in Morocco anf of Moroccan citizenship to accompany you in all procedures.Perchasing land in morocco is very risky if you don't know the rules and regulations,e.g sometimes you purchase  land and you can not build any thing on it because it is less than an acre or...write to me to cdriouach@yahoo.com and I will be of help to you

My husband is from there.  He has some family keeping an eye out ..... but I am also nervous about getting family mixed in our business.  Nothing is really for free in life.  I find people living in developing countries strangly assume that it rains gold in North America, the UK and Europe.  I am certain anyone who has family living in any developing country and lives in the countries mentioned gets what I am saying.

But thanks for the caution reminder because I think my husband got a taste of that in the summer.  He put a small deposit on something in Casabalanca was going to head to his city to get the money sorted out with the bank but just before buying he found of there was some strange conditions... something like he could not sell or build for a certain amount of time.  It sounded problematic so he walked away from the deal.

Hallo
in case that you need a good notair adulair I can advice my husband.
But he is speaking  french, german, arabic only.
We are living in Tanger.

Based on the following converaction
1. in case that you want invest your money  under your husband´s name - do not do it. You will not get the investment  100% back. ..(as you have only daughter)

2. Are you aware about Ceuta / spanish city on morroco land? Nice , clean and more safe than other cities (no hidjab necessary) based on my experiance.
3. Tanger is nice one city but only the center part - you can find everithing what you want there. The city borders are under ongoing constration.... so not so nice there.
One of the turist destination - Asilah /small city but safer than Tanger.

Mo.

Thanks for the suggestions.
Some of my husband's family lives in Nador or some part occupied by Spain too. 
I am not worried about covering my hair as my daughter tells me a lot of women don't cover their hair even in small cities any more.

I have never covered my hair when in Morocco except when entering a religious site or Mosque.

Never had an issue.  But again I don't standard out that much.

Did you check out Tamaris near Casablanca.
It is a good coastal holiday spot very close to the city.

Thanks.  I will have to look in to this area.  I think I am fundamentally lost in this search because I am not sure what I will be doing in Morocco.

To live, vacation, open a possible business, to rent etc.

I recommend renting until you know for sure. I've been crunching numbers and it makes more since to rent unless you plan to be there for more than 10 years. Buying property in Morocco isn't cheap anymore. I live in Florida which have nice clean beaches and good fishing than any beach in Morocco. But, I love the fact that I can buy or bring my on catch for someone to grill it in Morocco for little money and sit down, relax, and share it with my family. The prices they want for some houses and villas are about the same for the same size here in USA, but don't even come with central air conditioning and heat.

It does seem like Moroccans in Morocco think Americans are dripping with money. My wife will not take me shopping. As soon as they see me, the price doubles even if there's a price on it. It happens a lot, but not all the time. There are some good Muslim shop owners that I got to know because they know my wife's family and I get the Moroccan price when buying from them.

Most of Moroccan/Americans I know here in USA  that are my friends are very successful business owners and all millionaires and the ones that work for a company are all very well off. This could be another reason why they think Americans are dripping with money, but it's expensive to live in the USA.

Thanks for the feedback.  I was looking at house prices online and would not be willing to buy a house that I would have to maintain at that price. 

I don't speak when we are shopping for that reason.  I don't like shopping in Morocco it just way to stressful.  Also in many ways good quality things are cheaper in the USA and Canada.  Every time I go to South, Central America, Mexico, the Caribbean or Morocco I am reminded of this. 

It is similar in Toronto.  A lot of the Moroccan people I have meet here are Engineers, Marketing Managers and Doctors, but they were well off in Morocco too. 

I am kind of interested in going back to Morocco this summer just to compare the social differences.

What my daughter tells me is very interesting.  It is really ironic that my husband is so conservative but since he left Morocco seems to be a lot more liberal.

The only reason I am considering Moroccon as the money is already there or I would prefer to buy in Flordia : ).  I have lots of family there and it is cheaper and easier to get too.  I would be living at the outlet mall in Sunrise or Orlando and never miss a Calle Ocho : )!

That is another thing I need to look in to.  What cities have the best modern music festivals or festivals?