Divorcing in Vietnam

It was hard enough getting married, go here go  there , do this do that. If getting divorced is anything like getting married just put up with the inconvenience , it’s much easier .

Dont get married.

There is still a load of bullcrap being put about in Vietnam to the effect that it is illegal to live together with a Vietnamese if you aren't married. Hotels will still ask to see your marriage certificate and in many places if you can't produce one they will try to insist that you pay for separate rooms. The police will come and check - in one place near Hue, we were hassled by the police every night for a week until I told them that if they didn't desist I would complain to my embassy and ask them to take the matter up with the appropriate department.

The law about Vietnamese women not being allowed to live with a foreigner was repealed in year 2000. And in 2005 the principle of cohabitation was recognised in Vietnam law.

But if you are married and faced with divorce, the best idea is to reach agreement with your intended divorcee and get the court to rubber stamp the agreement and annul the marriage.

If you have property, come to an agreement over that because if you let the court decide they will levy a 20% charge on the property. And like lawyers everywhere they will try to maximise profit out of your misery. Vietnam lawyers are no different to lawyers anywhere else.

Hiya Matt !

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       The Master returns...   

      Grasshopper is grateful...     
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Hi Ciambella, a hearty hello from warm and sunny Afghanistan!

Hi Bazza, Hausit?

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     TYFA  Thank You For Asking

   TM. (not) a Transcendant Minion.

   ..more like Timid heart + Mistaken mind...

     But Aghast at Afghanistan...   

      ..or do you prefer living dangerously..?

    Former Frenemies worry about you...   
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Be careful, be well, and be safe, Matt.  We've been thinking of you, some of us even did it aloud!   

Bazza139 wrote:

But Aghast at Afghanistan...   

      ..or do you prefer living dangerously..?

Considering the occupation, why is that even a question?   Next stop Kashmir?.

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"Considering the occupation, why is that even a question"?   Next stop Kashmir?.

   erm, you picked it because of the (too many) passes..?     

  Empathy I guess; I was thinking of  me, the, or my...  ..Khyber pass...   

  Even more; must we go there..?   But I agree, there are better questions...     

  Of Divorce?    Of course, but an occupation equally full of highly explosive expletives...     

   I'm not envious; just scared of uxo...     
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Matt doesn't mind walking around a field of land mines, doesn't fear the Taliban, doesn't even turn around when big explosions can be heard only a few metres away... but he's deadly scared of one thing: marriage. 

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                Correct: his courage is beyond question...

       "... but he's deadly scared of one thing: marriage"     

    I invite you to follow Matt's threads...   His wisdom defies words

        Who else would allow a wife to think she is the controller..?

               Matt's Truth is stranger than Fiction     
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WillyBaldy wrote:

Matt doesn't mind walking around a field of land mines, doesn't fear the Taliban, doesn't even turn around when big explosions can be heard only a few metres away... but he's deadly scared of one thing: marriage. 

Unless his family life has changed drastically and recently, Matt's marriage is one of the very successful union that were often lauded on this forum.

Sam Eaton, THIGV, Colin, Gobot, Budman, William (Dreamer), and Ralph are the other members of the group of gentlemen who are very happy with their marriages.  Coincidently, their spouses all have one thing in common: they're Vietnamese.

Ciambella wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

Matt doesn't mind walking around a field of land mines, doesn't fear the Taliban, doesn't even turn around when big explosions can be heard only a few metres away... but he's deadly scared of one thing: marriage. 

Unless his family life has changed drastically and recently, Matt's marriage is one of the very successful union that were often lauded on this forum.

Sam Eaton, THIGV, Colin, Gobot, Budman, William (Dreamer), and Ralph are the other members of the group of gentlemen who are very happy with their marriages.  Coincidently, their spouses all have one thing in common: they're Vietnamese.

Dear Ciambella, so much modesty I was just joking around the fact that Matt's post started with "don't get married". I'm rooting for these happy couples, we need more of those in this world of chaos 

That sounds like at least a three day party to get divorced.

Dont get married.

There is still a load of bullcrap being put about in Vietnam to the effect that it is illegal to live together with a Vietnamese if you aren't married. Hotels will still ask to see your marriage certificate and in many places if you can't produce one they will try to insist that you pay for separate rooms. The police will come and check - in one place near Hue, we were hassled by the police every night for a week until I told them that if they didn't desist I would complain to my embassy and ask them to take the matter up with the appropriate department.


I never had that problem before. We've stayed at many a hotel - but no one ever wanted proof of marriage. haha maybe you look the type haha I mean the foreign stud that seduces Asians type.

I just returned after a three-week stay in Da Lat, Danang and Hue. We stayed at four different hotels and were never asked to prove we were married.

Peeweeaz1 wrote:

I just returned after a three-week stay in Da Lat, Danang and Hue. We stayed at four different hotels and were never asked to prove we were married.

Its usually government owned hotels that insist on it.

You need a competent lawyer to do this for you to avoid any further heartbreak or endless problems.

A friend of mine (UK nationality) went through a divorce with a Vietnamese girl. They had one child. Eventually it was all sorted out satisfactorily but it was not an easy path.

Good luck to anybody doing this.

P.S. Stay single!

MMMM ???      Or maybe not so much ! 

Have more than enough problems getting everything together to get married in the first place.
Far too much paperwork and running around, wait for this or that.
First marriage was to a non Vietnamese woman who was a lying, thieving ***    That cost me a family house, holiday home and a new car - could have been worse, but fortunately I managed to get a REALLY good female lawyer to the case to court for me. 
Only been married for seven and a half years so far, this time, and not one argument so far ! ( believe it or not ! )
Besides that, my WONDERFUL VN WIFE IS PERFECT IN EVERY WAY, I've never been happier. 

SO - - - NOT EVEN THINKING ABOUT ANY DIVORCE !!!     

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      SO - - - NOT EVEN THINKING ABOUT ANY DIVORCE !!!     

        ..and why would you..?    The upside is Appreciation...

        Yes, the road was rough, but you learnt the lesson well...

         ..and who taught you that..?     
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I wondered about a few things, if anyone knows for certain:

1) the 20% fee if the court is deciding things. Let's say you have land and apartments and property worth 2 mill but 1 party won't settle things. Seriously, the court is going to want 400k???

2) regarding dividing property, are there any rules on timeframe to sell and divide things? For example, if you have land, the foreigner can't have that in his name so it has to be sold if not other assets to match which he can have. 
Relatedly, is there an exemption from sales tax on transferring, say an apartment, to the foreigner's name in the settlement?

3) Having no idea about divorce lawyers, or knowing anyone who went through it, any ideas on what lawyers actually charge if 2 parties can't agree and have to go to court? Or even simply how to find someone competent?
I would think having a foreign lawyer is not a good idea and anyway, they just oversee things and have a VN lawyer handle the actual legal matters, then charge you a fortune on top.

thanks.

snoopcat wrote:

1) the 20% fee if the court is deciding things. Let's say you have land and apartments and property worth 2 mill but 1 party won't settle things. Seriously, the court is going to want 400k???

If the court wants 400k, I would say hand it to them with a smile.  In fact, if all the joint assets worth 2M, I would say give it all to her and walk.  Much simpler.

Note:  Evidently this is not a serious answer, just a poke on your (mis)understanding of the value of Vietnamese currency.

Haha you seriously thought I meant dong?

2 million USD 

4) to add one related item: what is the actual law on support money? I was reading a thread here but wasn't very helpful and no actual law stated. A wife and a kid - are you required to support both? And how is the level of support determined? By your previous lifestyle? By a community average? Or what? And for how long? The child until 18 I assume, but the wife? And what if she re-marries?

Thanks.

snoopcat wrote:

Haha you seriously thought I meant dong?.

Of course we did. In this forum, 400,000k generally refers to VND unless otherwise specified.

To me, at least

snoopcat wrote:

4) to add one related item: what is the actual law on support money? I was reading a thread here but wasn't very helpful and no actual law stated.

It's impossible to ask for the actual law number on any issue, especially when the law is written in Vietnamese and a great majority of members do not read that language.

AFAIK, I'm the only person whose responses include the actual wording of the law, the article number, and the date of issue.  I only do that if and when I'm not travelling, sleeping, reading, cooking, talking to my husband -- in general, not doing the normal stuff that I enjoy in life.

snoopcat wrote:

A wife and a kid - are you required to support both? And how is the level of support determined? By your previous lifestyle? By a community average? Or what? And for how long? The child until 18 I assume, but the wife? And what if she re-marries?

That's a lot of questions even without counting the ones you asked on the division of properties.

I have both the 2014 and 2018 Marriage and Family Law on file, but I'm not going to search through the whole thing to give you the exact article numbers, not today anyway.  You can take my word for it or you can pay a lawyer for the response.  Here's my English translation, in short:

- No alimony unless there's an agreement between the parties.
- Child support MUST last AT LEAST 18 years, longer (for his/her entire life if needed) if the adult child is incapable of supporting him/herself due to physical or mental limitation.
- The amount of child support is up to the parties.  If there's no agreement, the court will step in and make its decision based on proofs of expenses.

Ciambella wrote:

AFAIK, I'm the only person whose responses include the actual wording of the law, the article number, and the date of issue.

I stand corrected.  LeTienDat is the other person on this forum who sometimes quotes the law verbatim.  He's a real lawyer while I don't even play one on TV.

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     " He's a real lawyer while I don't even play one on TV"

            Real people follow  Judge Judy...     
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Judge Dredd is more friendly.

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                  Classic: Justice vs Law       

            ..why else would we be here..?         
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Hey nick would you happen to know the name of the lawyer he used and contact information? was this in hcmc. Am going through the same thing and need a good lawyer who can help me win custody of the child.

Thanks
Mike

mihumihu wrote:

need a good lawyer who can help me win custody of the child.

Unless you can prove that the mother endangers her child's health and safety, the custody is automatically granted to the mother until the child reaches his/her 3rd birthday.

After the 3rd birthday, it'd still be an uphill battle if you cannot prove that you're a better parent than the mother, that you can spend BOTH quality and quantity time caring for your child, and that you don't have any language difficulty that may lessen the quality of your child's welfare.

Having a Vietnamese speaking nanny or live-in housekeeper doesn't count with the court; the onus is yours, 100% of the time.  For example, if you need to rush your child to the emergency room, do you need a translator to explain the situation to medical staff?

I have never had that problem, from HCMC to Phan Ri. Maybe it is the way the situation looks.

David Ray wrote:

I have never had that problem, from HCMC to Phan Ri. Maybe it is the way the situation looks.

What problem?  And what did the locations have anything to do with it?

As you didn't use the Quote function and you didn't explain yourself, we haven't the slightest idea what you were talking about.

Only been 7 months for me so far,
But for me it was hhe best decision. If you take time to find the right woman, you will never have any regrets about marrying her.

Vietnamese wife is much better than any of the western women my friends married. Maybe I got lucky

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

snoopcat wrote:

Haha you seriously thought I meant dong?.

Of course we did. In this forum, 400,000k generally refers to VND unless otherwise specified.

To me, at least

Who is "we"? You mean you did, though in your reply you cut the part of the quote that clearly says "apartments and land worth 2 mill" so 20% is 400k??? (Not "400,000k" which makes no sense.) If you can find "apartments and land" for 400,000 dong, be sure to let "us" know

What is so difficult about saying you got something wrong??? It only looks silly when someone needs to say they didn't.

Anyway, tomorrow's always a new day

Jlgarbutt wrote:

Only been 7 months for me so far,
But for me it was hhe best decision. If you take time to find the right woman, you will never have any regrets about marrying her.

Vietnamese wife is much better than any of the western women my friends married. Maybe I got lucky

7 months isn't a marriage. post again after 10 years   And hopefully still going well. I agree with you about VN women for the most part.

Ciambella wrote:

snoopcat wrote:

4) to add one related item: what is the actual law on support money? I was reading a thread here but wasn't very helpful and no actual law stated.

It's impossible to ask for the actual law number on any issue, especially when the law is written in Vietnamese and a great majority of members do not read that language.

AFAIK, I'm the only person whose responses include the actual wording of the law, the article number, and the date of issue.  I only do that if and when I'm not travelling, sleeping, reading, cooking, talking to my husband -- in general, not doing the normal stuff that I enjoy in life.

snoopcat wrote:

A wife and a kid - are you required to support both? And how is the level of support determined? By your previous lifestyle? By a community average? Or what? And for how long? The child until 18 I assume, but the wife? And what if she re-marries?

That's a lot of questions even without counting the ones you asked on the division of properties.

I have both the 2014 and 2018 Marriage and Family Law on file, but I'm not going to search through the whole thing to give you the exact article numbers, not today anyway.  You can take my word for it or you can pay a lawyer for the response.  Here's my English translation, in short:

- No alimony unless there's an agreement between the parties.
- Child support MUST last AT LEAST 18 years, longer (for his/her entire life if needed) if the adult child is incapable of supporting him/herself due to physical or mental limitation.
- The amount of child support is up to the parties.  If there's no agreement, the court will step in and make its decision based on proofs of expenses.

I've read the Family law in Vietnamese and English but I'm mostly asking about in practice, or of course if anything specific in law. As you quoted it makes no sense at all as written for child support. "Based on expenses" - You could have infinite expenses if you just kept spending, so in court it isn't actually applied as written in that quote. (In reality, expenses are based on income, not the other way.)

Of course, the person will cite school, food, etc, but still, there's no real limit to that. So I'm wondering basically what the court has shown they go by if a foreigner and VN are divorced. Overseas it goes by prior lifestyle.

snoopcat wrote:

I've read the Family law in Vietnamese and English but I'm mostly asking about in practice, or of course if anything specific in law. As you quoted it makes no sense at all as written for child support. "Based on expenses" - You could have infinite expenses if you just kept spending, so in court it isn't actually applied as written in that quote. (In reality, expenses are based on income, not the other way.)

Of course, the person will cite school, food, etc, but still, there's no real limit to that. So I'm wondering basically what the court has shown they go by if a foreigner and VN are divorced. Overseas it goes by prior lifestyle.

My quote was the exact wording of the law, translated into English.  You can doubt my translation if you wish, but to be frank, no one ever did.  If the quote "makes no sense at all", it's only in your opinion.  I'm not enamored of everything Vietnamese, but in this case, I can tell you that particular law makes perfect sense in this society.

If you've read the law as written in Vietnamese as you said, you would see that there's absolutely no mention of the amount, percentage of income, or prior lifestyle whatsoever.  If you've gone one step further and read blogs and Q&As written by Vietnamese lawyers who specialise in family law, you would see the same thing.

The court looks at the receipts submitted by the mother (let's face it, in 99% of the marriages between foreigners and Vietnamese, especially the ones that end in divorce, the wife is Vietnamese and not the other way around) and determines whether the expenses are justified as necessary for the welfare of the child.

This is not overseas, the practice of "going by prior lifestyle" doesn't apply here.  This is also not overseas where one can have "infinite expenses if one just kept spending" which results in "no real limit" in the raising of children.  Foreign language lessons and private school are accepted, but music lessons, martial arts tournaments, and summer camp are not justifiable.  Same go for designer pram and hand sewn baby shoes. 

The court would (and has done that quite a few times, but don't ask me to search for the specific cases) reject the overblown expenses submitted by the mothers.  Unlike in the States (the only first world country where I have good knowledge of divorce court), the court doesn't determine the amount of child support together with the dissolution of marriage.  Here, it's a matter to be arranged between the parents.  Only when one parent is dissatisfied with the arrangement and takes the matter to court that the court would intervene.