News report on OV's apparent hint that Hungary will leave the EU if the "Rule of Law" result on Wednesday (16th Feb 2022) goes against him:

Government denies Orban hinted at Hungary’s EU exit

I cannot see leaving the EU is going to be  a vote winning policy as nearly everyone is in favour of EU membership.

Better study up on our Russian.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Better study up on our Russian.

Da! Nyet!

Ant Overlords

Kent Brockman and Ants as OV and Putin acolytes.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Better study up on our Russian.

до свидания товарищ 

bye bye, comrade

I'm going with a country known for destabilising governments stepping in and doing a number on Viktor.
I've just been reading a whole bunch of declassified UK and US documents about taking out an Indonesian government of old - History is a great teacher.
Indonesia, Iran, Ukraine - Hungary next?

Fred wrote:

....

I'm going with a country known for destabilising governments stepping in and doing a number on Viktor.

I've just been reading a whole bunch of declassified UK and US documents about taking out an Indonesian government of old - History is a great teacher.
Indonesia, Iran, Ukraine - Hungary next?

People don't pay attention to history.   As one gets older, one notices news interest stories come around and around.  And of course politicians don't recall what went before either as a matter of convenience.   

Not sure which country you are referring to doing a number on OV.  He's doing at lot of it to himself.  He's finally got a challenger with a chance of unseating him.  OSCE is coming to monitor.  It's not what we should be seeing in a democratic EU country.

This will be interesting in shaping the election:

ECJ rules in favour of making EU cash handouts conditional on a country's respect for rule of law

fluffy2560 wrote:

This will be interesting in shaping the election:

ECJ rules in favour of making EU cash handouts conditional on a country's respect for rule of law

I was just reading about this.....

ECJ dismisses Hungary and Poland’s complaints over rule-of-law measure

SimCityAT wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

This will be interesting in shaping the election:

ECJ rules in favour of making EU cash handouts conditional on a country's respect for rule of law

I was just reading about this.....

ECJ dismisses Hungary and Poland’s complaints over rule-of-law measure

It's an interesting one.  There's 6 billion EUR at stake for HU.  I think Poland is in a more of dilemma as their courts said EU law was incompatible with their constitution and their slice is worth 18 billion. There's a difficulty in knowing how to apply the ruling as its effects are very narrow.   But I am sure the EU will find a way to fiddle or fudge it. 

OV has been  digging a hole for himself recently, what with the lack of support for NATO and hinting at Hungary leaving the EU (which he now denies he said).  Average voter here won't appreciate any of this - they have a lack of critical thinking and lack of exposure to alternative opinions.  It's a bit like Trump - ignoring the bad aspects of his character while overemphasising the good bits.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Not sure which country you are referring to doing a number on OV.  He's doing at lot of it to himself.

I've had a very interesting hour or few reading a bunch of declassified UK and US documents - Nasty stuff by the US and UK who deliberately set up a situation they knew would kill people.

If anyone thinks the US and others wouldn't do that - Thank again

Fred wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Not sure which country you are referring to doing a number on OV.  He's doing at lot of it to himself.

I've had a very interesting hour or few reading a bunch of declassified UK and US documents - Nasty stuff by the US and UK who deliberately set up a situation they knew would kill people.

If anyone thinks the US and others wouldn't do that - Think again

This is not news Fred.   

US and UK kill anyone they want in a war situation if it advances their position.   

They will even kill their own citizens including kids without much ado. 

Obviously if they are acting as enemy combatants no-one is going to cry too much about it.

The other side have done the same.

I just saw some advertising on the forthcoming election.

The election has been completely overwhelmed by Ukraine news. 

And some of the politicians who were great hopes have put their foot in it by saying stupid stuff.   Frustrating as it will interfere with the chances of removing OV.

It seems a long time ago that OV was sitting at the end of that long Putin table only a few weeks ago.

Hungary election: Pro-Putin Prime Minister Viktor Orban declares victory in country's elections

The opposition has called for Hungary to support Ukraine and act in lockstep with the EU and NATO, while Mr Orban has insisted that Hungary remain neutral and maintain its close economic ties with Moscow. 

Very sad to hear that Orban won and his horrible comments about Ukraine and its president.  He still buys gasoline and other products from that butcher Putin.  He's all about money which is never good for a country.

He still buys gasoline and other products from that butcher Putin.  

- @virtualworldchamps

Sooner or later everyone will realise right and wrong has not a lot to do with this, but how much people are making from it has.

Hungary election: Pro-Putin Prime Minister Viktor Orban declares victory in country's elections

- @SimCityAT

 ...>

 OV's victory is not good news.   Once again it's Budapest vs the rest of the
country.   The country is a sea of Trumpist orange.

Perhaps one reason to rationalise some positiveness is
that the referendum failed to reach the required numbers.   The details
are not known yet about how many spoiled ballots there were  and how this relates to overall turnout.   

It's going to be a tough and stormy summer.   OV is at loggerheads with just about everyone.

I can see a showdown coming with the EU and others over the rule
of law/corruption, OSCE election reports, sanctions, Putin, NATO, UKR and LGBT matters.  It's all incompatible with European values.  

Overnight, there's more news from UKR.  I wonder how OV is going to excuse Putin's war crimes.  If he doesn't condemn him or sign up to more sanctions,  OV looks like he's being complicit and by effectively remaining silent and inactive, he's endorsing Russian atrocities.

Irrespective on who wins, situation is and was even more difficult. I think I made a comment of lightened despots (Frederic the Great (even he with some drawbacks). But democracy is just a comprimise (Orban is one, but honestly too old people like Biden other one). Putin might be dying, but all of them like power (which I understand) on a comparison basis Orban (for his own people_ are not too bad.

Did you see what happens in Sri Lanka (what about democracy).

I left Hungary because of the consequences of what Orban is doing, still, for HIS people not too bad (of course he loves power and comfortable life). Corruption or voter sympathy, both are not good (just being good for people is). 'Democracy' in my view is often dictation by majority.

A real shame not a world ruler who knows best, around 45/50, wise and wants good. Might be that eg Biden wants good, but he is far too old.

Life is not simple even embracing democracy

Germany is a very good example, majority voted for left/liberal. no involvement in war (I think it is embarrassing and outrageous the start of the war in Ukraine Germany took (I am sure with Merkel things would have been different). Leftist on one side hate Russia (and Ukraine) and best let things go, however realtity is catching up (WTF did they change their mind).

@SimCityAT 

Very adroit of Viktor to switch his pro-Putin stance to neutrality, accepting Ukrainian refugees to keep in with the EU, while refusing to condemn the invasion in order to keep cheap Russian oil and gas flowing.  Béke vagy háború? was enough to give him an even bigger majority. The left weren't too smart in advocating interference, this is not 1956. As for promoting LBGT rights, hardly a no-brainer in Hungary.

Germany is a very good example, majority voted for left/liberal. no involvement in war (I think it is embarrassing and outrageous the start of the war in Ukraine Germany took (I am sure with Merkel things would have been different). Leftist on ... - @cdw057

People are already searching for how things came to this point and who is guilty.

Angela Merkel is now known in anti-Putin circles as Agent Merkel. 

Sarkozy is also guilty in some way (another random Hungarian mistake generator).

I agree, Biden is too old for the job but at least he has many years of experience.

What I do not agree with is the "Chinese" curse - I don't want to live in interesting times. 

I quite like the apparent original - "Better to be a dog in times of tranquility than a human in times of chaos"

Dog envy is something I haven't really considered.

@dbyexx

Very adroit of Viktor to switch his pro-Putin stance to neutrality, accepting Ukrainian refugees to keep in with the EU, while refusing to condemn the invasion in order to keep cheap Russian oil and gas ... - @dbyexx

 There are contributors in this forum who are adversely affected by the LGBT laws which now we know via the referendum result has been rejected.  About time some of these people here in Hungary would grow up about the reality of who their neighbours really are.

OV just looks like a fence sitter. It won't work because sooner or later it's going to catch up with him and the rest of us.   

The opposition (I wouldn't call them left, more centrist)  were not given a fair crack of the whip with the media controls.

My opinion is that Hungary is continuing down the path of self-isolation.  O1G is trying to make/keep/remain friends with Russia and China (in the name of national protection but that is a farce), while polarizing Western Europe and now even Central Europe -- Poland and Ukraine now have significantly anti-Hungary sentiments, and this is growing.

A certain Dutchman stated that Hungary has no place in the EU. And Hungary is proving this correct.

Hungarians complain about how they were sometimes treated poorly by history or circumstances. Often the circumstances were of their own making and poor choices. This is one of those instances.

The HUF is crashing, inflation is rampant, no one in the international community wants to partner with O1G or Fidesz, the Rule of Law is the Law of Europe and Hungary will see no relief funds from EU banks. Meanwhile, O1G will continue his corrupt hoarding of wealth and power in a Mini-Me Putin sort of way, complete with his taxpayer-paid dacha on Balaton.

One friend told me the number of HU youth (under 30e) who turned out to vote was abysmally low. Is this due to a frustration, a learned helplessness, that they no longer care about their country? Are they all looking to depart for Western Europe ASAP? Those that can, of course... 

As for the referendum:

Participation failed to reach the 50% threshold to make it legally binding, with 20% of voters spoiling their ballots, part of an opposition initiative to sabotage the referendum which it decried as homophobic. Of the 44% of voters who cast valid votes, more than 92% voted with the government’s position

I can almost cry, VERY good posts by members, no doubt about it. 

Orban has given far too many hand-outs and ones staying will be hit, nevertheless fencesitting being a small country and friends (and benefitting from handouts from other countries) might turn out to be useful. (EU/China/Turkey/Russia), Somebody wants from Orban (and they get, but so does Orban (and Hungary (even if Orban and friends might also get a percentage, I believe good for Hungary (visible in 1 or 2 years, this and early next year will be difficult (getting things in orde))

My opinion is that Hungary is continuing down the path of
self-isolation.  O1G is trying to make/keep/remain friends with Russia
and China (in the name of national protection but that is a farce),
while polarizing Western Europe and now even Central Europe -- Poland
and Ukraine now have significantly anti-Hungary sentiments, and this is
growing.

A certain Dutchman stated that Hungary has no place in the EU. And Hungary is proving this correct.

The HUF is crashing, inflation is rampant, no one in the
international community wants to partner with O1G or Fidesz, the Rule of
Law is the Law of Europe and Hungary will see no relief funds from EU
banks. Meanwhile, O1G will continue his corrupt hoarding of wealth and
power in a Mini-Me Putin sort of way, complete with his taxpayer-paid
dacha on Balaton.

One friend told me the number of HU youth (under
30e) who turned out to vote was abysmally low. Is this due to a
frustration, a learned helplessness, that they no longer care about
their country? Are they all looking to depart for Western Europe ASAP?
Those that can, of course...

Mrs Fluffy said last night, it doesn't matter if Hungary becomes isolated and even leaves the EU.  It'll still be OV in power and he and his gas fitter oligarchs and slimeball sycophants will be unfettered. 

Personally I hope that Hungary is punished severely now before it goes so far that it becomes another Belarus and a Russian satellite once more.   OV is just such a fool if he thinks can keep Putin at arms length.

If there are going to be more sanctions, I hope some aspect of it will inconvenience OV and entourage as well.  

BTW, there's a Hungarian oligarch with a superyacht.  The EU might want to consider taking that into account as well.    

I left, admittedly to a country with somebody in power with a similar profile as Orban (however much powerful than Orban). Finding an appropriate balance between Schengen/EU, Russia, China, democracy is difficult, in my view it will become ... - @cdw057

Amazing how Orban goes not (or not very acitvely) supports Ukraine, but he has lucky in a way that he can hides below EU (essentially telling Russia, what can I do, I am part of the EU, to Ukraine saying the same, I am part of the EU and I ... - @cdw057

https://hungarytoday.hu/ihor-kotvytskyy … der-money/

- @cdw057

https://hungarytoday.hu/ihor-kotvytskyy … der-money/

- @cdw057

Hungary cut off from EU funds, no Western Euro country wants to
invest in HU, greater economic benefit will be available from newer EU
states, the Rule of Law will stop EU funds entering Hungary, no friends
after Hungary single-handedly insults Ukraine, NATO, and Western
Democracies, and insults Brussels... Again, Hungary will continue to
suffer, but no, not O1G and his cronies. Until the Hungarian people
demand accountability, they will cry about their fortunes and how could
this happen to them.... The fraud and corruption, the poor politics that
they allowed for a few crumbs of political bribery and cultural
pessimism while Hungary's poor version of oligarchs run to their Swiss
chalets and Southern French beach houses -- or even their Spanish
villas.

I do want to leave Hungary and am very
happy my real estate may have doubled in price since I bought it -- and then I remember that the forint halved in the last 5 years. Maybe I have been in Hungary too long, I've become pessimistic, but in my mind, for all the right reasons.

.. - @Vicces1

I think my pessimism is the same for those who can leave -- mostly the young.

It is certainly the youth who will "pay" for O1G and this vote.

O1G has been congratulated by the pariahs of Euro politics, like Putin himself, Le Pen, Nigel Farage, and Salvini.

O1G has called both Brussels, NATO, and even Zelensky "opponents".

- Note that this speech against Ukraine came hours AFTER the atrocities in Bucha and other towns near Kyiv became evident.

With another commanding political victory, O1G is now "swaggering" with unrestrained arrogance, shamelessness, and narcissism.

The
EU is said to be considering economic sanctions on Hungary -- but they
also want to show a united front against Putin. Does this mean more
holding their noses while condoning O1G. I am sure he hopes so.

The Visegrad 4 is weakening their support for HU:

Czech
foreign minister Jan Lipavskỷ, a key regional ally, said he was “not
satisfied with the election's result in Hungary”, but had to “seek
partners” in his country's interest. “Hungary must choose its side, and
whether they belong to the EU and Nato,” he said.. - @Vicces1

Vicces in my view is a wise and good contributor, still we (not me
at this time) decided to be in Hungary with friendly people (if they
vote for Orban). In my village (street) most of the people are for Orban
(not always benefitting from the hand-outs). People are not so stupid
(still I took consequences and left (but than again I am not Hungarian
and just an expat). My experience for some years was that I was welcomed
(neighbourhood, chessclub, cigarette salesman, but also gardener and
others (electricity/gas/wine delivery/meat delivery/smokey burger,.._)
Of course people can get paid, but also the poorer people in our
neighbourhood were happy (gifts with Christmas and Easter) I think it is
not only about the gifts, but also about appreciation (same for garbage
people and postman). 

...

Bottom
line Orban has MANY minuses, but still appeals (not only financially)
to people, we should not say that voters are stupid (even if I
personally agree with all). I respect VERY much my ex neighbours and
their views and I will keep contact (and perhaps even return). Good
memories and view of people in Hungary (not the way it is now however
and for the coming 4 years).

I LOVE HUNGARIAN PEOPLE (perhaps not government), but I appreciate and respect their views (even if pro-Orban)

I am not going to fight on that (I am passive and just moved)

 ... - @cdw057