A Hidden Crisis in Vietnam

As you have told us before, you are an engineer by education and experience.  Your solutions seem to reflect that.

Indices wrote:

I do not know what the exact function of the particular sluice gates you refer to is but  they are usually used to stop inflow by the tide or ensure equal distribution to different areas of the farms.
There are much better solutions certainly but the costs are way beyond anyone other than governments and unavailable both for now and the foreseeable future, if ever sadly.

I am sure the gates I saw were in Tra Vinh Province but maybe closer to the ocean than your are located.  They were all near where the fields met the rivers so I am fairly certain they were not for internal distribution.  Many were the size of an irrigation ditch but some were quite a bit larger and controlled what could be described as branches of the river.  The smaller ones may have been made at the commune level but the larger ones were likely made at least at the provincial government level.  I know that I took photos and I will give looking for them a try this weekend.

THIGV wrote:

Thanks for your explanation.  I think you told us before that you are an engineer by education and experience and your solution reflects that.

Indices wrote:

I do not know what the exact function of the particular sluice gates you refer to is but  they are usually used to stop inflow by the tide or ensure equal distribution to different areas of the farms.

I am pretty sure were gates that I saw were in Tra Vinh Province but may have been closer to the ocean.  They were close to the river so I am pretty sure they were not for internal distribution.

Without seeing them it is difficult to tell their exact use and suffice to say the application of some of the engineering aspects here defy logic  .
Many of the problems here are self inflicted by the farmers as the skills they have developed over many years, perhaps centuries, just do not work now as the whole environment is changing. Trying to explain to them that practices they have always used will no longer work is difficult to say the least especially when it involves doing things that they simply cannot get their heads around. As for trying to illustrate how to use counter-flow pressures to redirect the primary velocities to where you want to send them then you may as well talk to a brick wall. Even when you show them by doing something that works is not always the answer as everyone else around them does exactly the same even though whilst a particular solution works on one farm it certainly may not on another and if you aren't careful the replication of flow responses can actually completely nullify a solution already applied to a nearby farm

Putting a simple bend in a straight ditch for instance will accelerate the flow around the outside edge so placing a pump there instead of just tossed in the ditch will increase the extraction considerably with a lot less power requirement etc and may even eradicate the need for the pump in the first place. The increased speed will also help prevent silt from building up so quickly and so on.

Excuse my ignorance on the subject of dams. So china can hold back the water and control the taps maybe even for political reasons. It's got to follow gravity into the ocean eventually right. So what's stopping a few dam on the Vietnamese side to re-control the flow of water further down? Get some free energy too...

phikachu wrote:

Excuse my ignorance on the subject of dams. So china can hold back the water and control the taps maybe even for political reasons. It's got to follow gravity into the ocean eventually right. So what's stopping a few dam on the Vietnamese side to re-control the flow of water further down? Get some free energy too...

Well I am no expert on dams either, but as a small boy me & my mates understood when we were at play building dams in the local burns (Scottish for small stream) that the location of the dam & the land formations behind it was critical. If the Vietnamese could dam the Mekong, I am sure they would have by now. I am pretty sure the land on the Vietnamese side of the border is not suitable for big hydro dam projects.
I suppose its right to say that eventually the water gets to the sea, but the disruption to flow over the years while the reservoirs fill up must cause some problems & after the controlled release of the water ( no more flood water in the delta) from what I have read, certainly with the Nile in Egypt historically no yearly floods meant famine! because the flood water brought a new batch of fertile silt.
As for free energy, I learned early in life " there is no such thing as a free lunch" 

goodolboy wrote:

I suppose its right to say that eventually the water gets to the sea,...

I think this is hypothetically true if hydroelectric power was the only use of the dams.  Once that lake fills up though, don't you think that Laos, Thailand or Myanmar will think about using more of the river for irrigation than they do already?  Once water is diverted sideways, some may return to the river through groundwater seepage, but most is lost to direct evaporation and plant transpiration.

phikachu:  Its all about the rise.  To make hydroelectric power you need water to be falling.  The elevation of Phnom Penh is only 39 ft. (11.9 m).  Look at a topographic map and compare the Vietnam portion of the river to the other countries.  In fact the Chinese portion is far enough upstream that I expect their activities would have much less impact on Vietnam than a dam on the Lao/Thai border.  I think Vietnam has a lot of hydro-electic power in the central and northern regions, where the mountains are.

Sad to say, if you are a believer in man-made global warming and commensurate sea level rise, as I am aware not everyone reading here is, the entire Vietnamese portion of the delta will be under the sea in some 50 years.  That does not make it a very good prospect for dams.

THIGV wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

I suppose its right to say that eventually the water gets to the sea,...

I think this is hypothetically true if hydroelectric power was the only use of the dams.  Once that lake fills up though, don't you think that Laos, Thailand or Myanmar will think about using more of the river for irrigation than they do already?  Once water is diverted sideways, some may return to the river through groundwater seepage, but most is lost to direct evaporation and plant transpiration.

& with the ground water seepage comes the chemicals.

phikachu:  Its all about the rise.  To make hydroelectric power you need water to be falling.  The elevation of Phnom Penh is only 39 ft. (11.9 m).  Look at a topographic map and compare the Vietnam portion of the river to the other countries.  In fact the Chinese portion is far enough upstream that I expect their activities would have much less impact on Vietnam than a dam on the Lao/Thai border.  I think Vietnam has a lot of hydro-electic power in the central and northern regions, where the mountains are.

Sad to say, if you are a believer in man-made global warming and commensurate sea level rise, as I am aware not everyone reading here is, the entire Vietnamese portion of the delta will be under the sea in some 50 years.  That does not make it a very good prospect for dams.

THIGV wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

I suppose its right to say that eventually the water gets to the sea,...

I think this is hypothetically true if hydroelectric power was the only use of the dams.  Once that lake fills up though, don't you think that Laos, Thailand or Myanmar will think about using more of the river for irrigation than they do already?  Once water is diverted sideways, some may return to the river through groundwater seepage, but most is lost to direct evaporation and plant transpiration.

phikachu:  Its all about the rise.  To make hydroelectric power you need water to be falling.  The elevation of Phnom Penh is only 39 ft. (11.9 m).  Look at a topographic map and compare the Vietnam portion of the river to the other countries.  In fact the Chinese portion is far enough upstream that I expect their activities would have much less impact on Vietnam than a dam on the Lao/Thai border.  I think Vietnam has a lot of hydro-electic power in the central and northern regions, where the mountains are.

Sad to say, if you are a believer in man-made global warming and commensurate sea level rise, as I am aware not everyone reading here is, the entire Vietnamese portion of the delta will be under the sea in some 50 years.  That does not make it a very good prospect for dams.

Reminds me of the past catastrophes that never eventuated; polar ice caps completely melting,acid rain destroying all food crops and the ozone layer will be reduced to zero.

All of these from past decades, and yet, not one of them ever took place, no matter how much our governments told us that they would.

goodolboy wrote:

THIGV wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

I suppose its right to say that eventually the water gets to the sea,...

I think this is hypothetically true if hydroelectric power was the only use of the dams.  Once that lake fills up though, don't you think that Laos, Thailand or Myanmar will think about using more of the river for irrigation than they do already?  Once water is diverted sideways, some may return to the river through groundwater seepage, but most is lost to direct evaporation and plant transpiration.

& with the ground water seepage comes the chemicals.

phikachu:  Its all about the rise.  To make hydroelectric power you need water to be falling.  The elevation of Phnom Penh is only 39 ft. (11.9 m).  Look at a topographic map and compare the Vietnam portion of the river to the other countries.  In fact the Chinese portion is far enough upstream that I expect their activities would have much less impact on Vietnam than a dam on the Lao/Thai border.  I think Vietnam has a lot of hydro-electic power in the central and northern regions, where the mountains are.

Sad to say, if you are a believer in man-made global warming and commensurate sea level rise, as I am aware not everyone reading here is, the entire Vietnamese portion of the delta will be under the sea in some 50 years.  That does not make it a very good prospect for dams.

I think pollution of rivers from excessive use of Agri chemicals is not fantasy & is pretty much fact, even in the West! Never heard anyone dispute that data before.

The assumption you need falling water to create power may be true as stated by phikachu:
but to say you need naturally elevated land isn't true. Many of the dams in the world were created on relatively flat areas by clever engineering and raised reservoirs. There are even some very efficient ways of using water to generate power without the need for a dam at all or expensive technology simply by using re-directional engineering and the understanding of fluid dynamics to increase velocity etc.
As for the whole global warming argument I think it is fair to say that there is enough evidence to confirm the planet is changing although whether or not man has actually caused it or merely adding to it is another matter. The worlds climate has changed many times before and will continues to do so with or without our help.
The problems in the delta however are entirely man-made for a whole variety of reasons of which Vietnam itself has contributed. Sadly, like all governments, nothing is done until it is too late and so called 'Green' taxes are treated as just another revenue opportunity.
Personally I do not think the inevitable crash of the delta can be prevented long term, there are too many factors in play, but I do believe that some adjustments here and there, a change of farming attitudes and practices, realignment to different crop production together with the application of a few inexpensive engineering solutions could at least keep the area as productive as possible for considerably longer than its current projections.

Yes I'm aware that Vietnam and the Mekong delta will be one of most affected areas of climate change. Thanks for the explanations. With hindsight, proposing to builds dams on the mekong sounds ridiculous when the seas about to reclaim it all. This is not the solution and for better or worse... you can grow GM rice in salt water now. I stumbled upon that researching after reading the plot to 2030.

phikachu wrote:

... you can grow GM rice in salt water now. I stumbled upon that researching after reading the plot to 2030.

Salt resistant rice hybrids developed in China will grow with water that is 10% as saline as sea water.  Not exactly the same thing.  It is a major breakthrough though and could be very useful in Viet Nam as well.  Most of my experience is with corn (maize) which will not grow well in water with a level of salinity that is not even detectable to the human tongue.

phikachu wrote:

Yes I'm aware that Vietnam and the Mekong delta will be one of most affected areas of climate change. Thanks for the explanations. With hindsight, proposing to builds dams on the mekong sounds ridiculous when the seas about to reclaim it all. This is not the solution and for better or worse... you can grow GM rice in salt water now. I stumbled upon that researching after reading the plot to 2030.

As far as I'm aware there are now 3 varieties of Rice that have been developed to survive in saline water but none are suitable for the Mekong as it stands purely because the increased salinity is slowly sterilising the silt as well as other environmental factors. It would need a complete change to normal practices and cost far more than would be economic to produce, for now at least. There are solutions but the investment required at government level is never going to happen. When you consider the Dutch solutions and the fact their whole country is pretty much below sea level then it is possible to protect at least a good part of the delta. I personally think the long term view of the major players is to let the Mekong go its own way with no plans to save it. Sounds a bit cold blooded but there are many other areas of the world that have the potential to produced far more food with less investment than the delta. Sad but the realities of Finance V People is a no contest.

Indices wrote:

phikachu wrote:

Yes I'm aware that Vietnam and the Mekong delta will be one of most affected areas of climate change. Thanks for the explanations. With hindsight, proposing to builds dams on the mekong sounds ridiculous when the seas about to reclaim it all. This is not the solution and for better or worse... you can grow GM rice in salt water now. I stumbled upon that researching after reading the plot to 2030.

As far as I'm aware there are now 3 varieties of Rice that have been developed to survive in saline water but none are suitable for the Mekong as it stands purely because the increased salinity is slowly sterilising the silt as well as other environmental factors. It would need a complete change to normal practices and cost far more than would be economic to produce, for now at least. There are solutions but the investment required at government level is never going to happen. When you consider the Dutch solutions and the fact their whole country is pretty much below sea level then it is possible to protect at least a good part of the delta. I personally think the long term view of the major players is to let the Mekong go its own way with no plans to save it. Sounds a bit cold blooded but there are many other areas of the world that have the potential to produced far more food with less investment than the delta. Sad but the realities of Finance V People is a no contest.

wow

Up until Saigon hopefully. I would like to buy a nice apartment along the river there one day.

Don’t know much about it, I’m no a farmer and the only thing I have ever grown is strawberries on my balcony. My girlfriend and I often talk about selling up and becoming farmers, living off the land and all that.

My gaff in London sits on the wrong side of the thames barrier. I can see it from my window and every time there’s a tidal surge, they close the barrier and are effectively letting where I live flood in a controlled way to save the rest of London. Apartments on the riverside do not have first floors and are used for parking. This is by design so in the event of a massive flood there’s no damage to property (residential, as you can always move your car).  They are proposing to build an even bigger barrier further down with climate change in mind. Part of the TE2100 thames estuary plan. I hope they do something! as the value of my apartment would go down as sea levels rise and flooding becomes more frequent.

Let’s hope they can come up with something as big and coordinated like that to save Saigon from the sea too.

phikachu wrote:

Up until Saigon hopefully. I would like to buy a nice apartment along the river there one day.

Don’t know much about it, I’m no a farmer and the only thing I have ever grown is strawberries on my balcony. My girlfriend and I often talk about selling up and becoming farmers, living off the land and all that.

My gaff in London sits on the wrong side of the thames barrier. I can see it from my window and every time there’s a tidal surge, they close the barrier and are effectively letting where I live flood in a controlled way to save the rest of London. Apartments on the riverside do not have first floors and are used for parking. This is by design so in the event of a massive flood there’s no damage to property (residential, as you can always move your car).  They are proposing to build an even bigger barrier further down with climate change in mind. Part of the TE2100 thames estuary plan. I hope they do something! as the value of my apartment would go down as sea levels rise and flooding becomes more frequent.

Let’s hope they can come up with something as big and coordinated like that to save Saigon from the sea too.

The Thames barrier was mostly financed by Insurance companies as the cost of London floods was huge, easier to sacrifice the less expensive areas having declared them a potential flood area thus either putting up the rates or offering very little cover. Sadly a barrier as such just couldn't work in the Mekong as it is much more complex and very few have property insurance or any willingness from the government to finance a solution.

Having just managed to receive my emails from Friday I am surprised to find that plans I submitted for an unusual contraflow-deosmosis system to be implemented in the lower reaches of the Mekong has been given approval. if it ever goes ahead it will open the door for more diversification of crops for local farmers in the region and help insulate them from saline intrusion, drought and the effects of the up-river dams, pollution etc etc. Long way to go but it is encouraging that the government here is at least open to innovative techniques and the latest ideas and technology. Will it ever happen ? Maybe, maybe not, but the first hurdle and perhaps the most difficult one has at least been overcome.

Indices wrote:

Having just managed to receive my emails from Friday I am surprised to find that plans I submitted for an unusual contraflow-deosmosis system to be implemented in the lower reaches of the Mekong has been given approval. if it ever goes ahead it will open the door for more diversification of crops for local farmers in the region and help insulate them from saline intrusion, drought and the effects of the up-river dams, pollution etc etc. Long way to go but it is encouraging that the government here is at least open to innovative techniques and the latest ideas and technology. Will it ever happen ? Maybe, maybe not, but the first hurdle and perhaps the most difficult one has at least been overcome.

That's a huge deal!

Congratulations!

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Indices wrote:

Having just managed to receive my emails from Friday I am surprised to find that plans I submitted for an unusual contraflow-deosmosis system to be implemented in the lower reaches of the Mekong has been given approval. if it ever goes ahead it will open the door for more diversification of crops for local farmers in the region and help insulate them from saline intrusion, drought and the effects of the up-river dams, pollution etc etc. Long way to go but it is encouraging that the government here is at least open to innovative techniques and the latest ideas and technology. Will it ever happen ? Maybe, maybe not, but the first hurdle and perhaps the most difficult one has at least been overcome.

That's a huge deal!

Congratulations!

Thank you, it has already been a long road to get to this point. There is ample funding from a variety of worldwide development grants etc from which the scheme has already gained 'in principle' approval but the big problem is as always government consent. Finalising the finance will take some time but patience should fix that. The last problem will be finding and recruiting the expertise to help with what will be a complicated project taking up two years of their lives.
Still, one step at a time.

Indices:  It's probably way to complicated to explain here but could you provide links that will let us read up on contraflow-deosmosis?  I generally understand reverse osmosis.  Is this a way to scale up that low volume system?  It sounds exciting.

I have sort of a double interest in this topic as one my wife is from Ben Tre, and because I am retired from a life in agriculture and am always interested in agriculturally related subjects.  Of course the solution in Ben Tre has been to grow coconuts which are doubtless one of the most salt tolerant crops.  I expect your project is slightly upstream from there before most of the delta branching. perhaps in Tien Gang or even Dong Thap Province.  Thanks for your efforts.

THIGV wrote:

Indices:  It's probably way to complicated to explain here but could you provide links that will let us read up on contraflow-deosmosis?  I generally understand reverse osmosis.  Is this a way to scale up that low volume system?  It sounds exciting.

I have sort of a double interest in this topic as one my wife is from Ben Tre, and because I am retired from a life in agriculture and am always interested in agriculturally related subjects.  Of course the solution in Ben Tre has been to grow coconuts which are doubtless one of the most salt tolerant crops.  I expect your project is slightly upstream from there before most of the delta branching. perhaps in Tien Gang or even Dong Thap Province.  Thanks for your efforts.

As far as I am aware there are no links outside rather specialised research papers regarding the principles of contraflow-deosmosis as it is a combination of technologies working in unison rather than a single concept. Much the same as for instance combining the principles of a jet engine with the aerodynamics that create lift by manipulating differences in air pressures . Each have their individual technologies. It is only when combined together they jointly create an efficient means of air transport. I have probably made that as clear as mud so forgive me but it is difficult to explain in the limited space of a forum post. The main advantages are that by utilising one it provides power for the other making the system almost entirely self generating. The system I designed for the delta works in either direction irrespective of tidal flow, volume ingression or depletion via rainfall and all but the most severe droughts etc etc. The reverse osmosis occurs within the flow system irrespective of varying salinity which ever way the water is flowing with water pressure itself determining the systems direction.
One big advantage is that the design fits into a wide criteria of grant funding, kind of ticks all the boxes. An added bonus is the way grants can be set up in that payments are only made progressively and approved when predetermined targets have been met during construction and verified independently much the same as the principle of quantity surveying. This prevents grant funds disappearing into the mystical governmental black holes never to be seen again and ensures the project stays on schedule and reaches a conclusion. This is vitally important because the system will not work unless it is completed in its entirety before it is 'switched on' as it were. The fluid dynamics combined with flow manipulation via accelerating and decelerating water pressures plus the very low compression rate related to the molecular structure of water itself has to all work in unison.
I guess the reader has fallen asleep already, sorry.
However, if anyone wants to know how it all works in greater detail I would be happy to explain further especially the utilisation of EMF disruption that contributes to the desalination process , perhaps via a PM or contact me direct.

Indices wrote:

I guess the reader has fallen asleep already, sorry.

I'm still here 

Although still a little cloudy, I do seem to have a general idea of what is involved.  What kind of flows is your project capable of?  Will it be a finished installation or a prototype that will need further scaling up?

THIGV wrote:

Indices wrote:

I guess the reader has fallen asleep already, sorry.

I'm still here 

Although still a little cloudy, I do seem to have a general idea of what is involved.  What kind of flows is your project capable of?  Will it be a finished installation or a prototype that will need further scaling up?

The principles of the project can be applied to any amount of water flow. Where it goes is simply determined by the bore of the pipes carrying it and the magnetic gates that direct it. Last year I built a small model that then made its rounds to the various bodies hence their approval in principle to the funding. There will not be a prototype as the engineering designs and related equations say enough. So, if the project goes ahead, it will be on a full scale in relation to the delta itself and the specific engineering parameters required for it to work. I am aware of 3 other governments who are watching to see what happens with a view to implementing similar projects and may be an easier route to completion but I am passionate about the delta so will make sure that if it happens anywhere then it will happen here first.

Forget to add . . . . The power that can be created by relatively small amounts of water in relation to contact mass can be quite dramatic. I am sure you are familiar with the simple tap and spoon effect.

if anyone is interested in becoming involved with the project please let me know. Salaries are not under my control as they will be calculated via an average of grant approvals/various skills criteria etc and paid via whatever or whoever is appointed to handle the grant administration and I want no part of it. My own communications are a little difficult at present so if you respond then bear with me if replies are delayed. With luck the project will begin this year, hopefully during November/December. An International team of specialised skill sets will be needed including those with project management skills, agricultural expertise and specialist engineers familiar with fluid dynamics etc etc. Experience is more valuable than qualifications and age is no boundary. I expect the project to take about two years from initiation to completion. English language is essential and Vietnamese is a bonus. Yes I know I will be no doubt criticised for not placing a recruitment post but if whoever is interested has not been following this thread then they are of little use anyway. This project will not make anyone rich or open doors to a career and is not aimed at doing so. Those that have been involved with international projects before will be disappointed in that there is no 5* travel/accommodation/endless dinner meetings involved or all the usual paraphernalia, lobbying and so on. Essential meetings and project coordination will be conducted via conference Skype or on site.

THIGV wrote:

I think Vietnam has a lot of hydro-electic power in the central and northern regions, where the mountains are.

Don't even have to get very far north to see them.  The lake my farm is on is only 3 hours north of HCMC and is a hydroelectric reservoir.

SteinNebraska wrote:

THIGV wrote:

I think Vietnam has a lot of hydro-electic power in the central and northern regions, where the mountains are.

Don't even have to get very far north to see them.  The lake my farm is on is only 3 hours north of HCMC and is a hydroelectric reservoir.

https://i.imgur.com/rMlRYrO.png
https://i.imgur.com/03ncrgc.png

Hydro/electric power is not the problem and has significant benefits. It is using technology and innovation to manage the aftermath that is the problem.

Indices wrote:

Hydro/electric power is not the problem and has significant benefits. It is using technology and innovation to manage the aftermath that is the problem.

I didn't say it was a problem.  I only responded to THIGV that there are hydroelectric reservoirs very close to HCMC, not just central and northern VN.

SteinNebraska wrote:

Indices wrote:

Hydro/electric power is not the problem and has significant benefits. It is using technology and innovation to manage the aftermath that is the problem.

I didn't say it was a problem.  I only responded to THIGV that there are hydroelectric reservoirs very close to HCMC, not just central and northern VN.

You are obviously aware of the situation your farm is in and the potential problems that will be forthcoming in the next two years or thereabouts so I guess you have it covered and are taking steps as required. The project I am concerned with is further south.

The latest text from the HCMC Fatherland Front Committee, in addition to asking for donations for COVID-19 support, now asks for support for the people hurt by drought and saltwater intrusion.

Is it really a hidden crisis? I've seen several news reports and and a documentary on the subject. When sea level rise and a spate of upstream dam building coincide, any river delta will be threatened.

Indices wrote:

You are obviously aware of the situation your farm is in and the potential problems that will be forthcoming in the next two years or thereabouts so I guess you have it covered and are taking steps as required. The project I am concerned with is further south.

Ummm, I'm on the up-river side of the dam on the lake.  There are no potential problems as a result of the dam.  So, I guess I have it "covered" because there are no steps to take.  What a strange set of comments that you made about lakeshore property that is above the dam.

cruisemonkey wrote:

Is it really a hidden crisis? I've seen several news reports and and a documentary on the subject. When sea level rise and a spate of upstream dam building coincide, any river delta will be threatened.

Glad to see you have it covered with a generalised view. I take it you have the answer equally as easily solved, i.e 'any river delta will be threatened ' with a just the way it is response. When in fact the Mekong has its own specific and complex issues, no two delta systems are the same.

SteinNebraska wrote:

Indices wrote:

You are obviously aware of the situation your farm is in and the potential problems that will be forthcoming in the next two years or thereabouts so I guess you have it covered and are taking steps as required. The project I am concerned with is further south.

Ummm, I'm on the up-river side of the dam on the lake.  There are no potential problems as a result of the dam.  So, I guess I have it "covered" because there are no steps to take.  What a strange set of comments that you made about lakeshore property that is above the dam.

Good for you.
As you consider there are no potential problems then there is no point in me elaborating.

paulmsn wrote:

The latest text from the HCMC Fatherland Front Committee, in addition to asking for donations for COVID-19 support, now asks for support for the people hurt by drought and saltwater intrusion.

I really do hope they get the help they need. The problem with many of these schemes of support is that the requirement for help often has various 'paperwork' that cannot be complied with in many cases and often it is only the bigger producers that get any support. Still, everything helps even if only in a small way.

Indices wrote:

SteinNebraska wrote:

Indices wrote:

You are obviously aware of the situation your farm is in and the potential problems that will be forthcoming in the next two years or thereabouts so I guess you have it covered and are taking steps as required. The project I am concerned with is further south.

Ummm, I'm on the up-river side of the dam on the lake.  There are no potential problems as a result of the dam.  So, I guess I have it "covered" because there are no steps to take.  What a strange set of comments that you made about lakeshore property that is above the dam.

Good for you.
As you consider there are no potential problems then there is no point in me elaborating.

On the contrary, if you know of something that I'm not aware of that could to be detrimental to upstream property of course I'm interested in hearing about that.  You have alluded twice to me seeing issues upstream in the next two years but no specifics or even generalities of what those issues might be.  Only vague innuendo.  Why is that?

SteinNebraska wrote:

Indices wrote:

SteinNebraska wrote:

Ummm, I'm on the up-river side of the dam on the lake.  There are no potential problems as a result of the dam.  So, I guess I have it "covered" because there are no steps to take.  What a strange set of comments that you made about lakeshore property that is above the dam.

Good for you.
As you consider there are no potential problems then there is no point in me elaborating.

On the contrary, if you know of something that I'm not aware of that could to be detrimental to upstream property of course I'm interested in hearing about that.  You have alluded twice to me seeing issues upstream in the next two years but no specifics or even generalities of what those issues might be.  Only vague innuendo.  Why is that?

You have stated there are no potential problems, no steps to take, which I assume relates to both your property and proposed crop selection so apart from having a good supply of Picaridin why would a fluid dynamics engineers opinion be of any use to you ? As you said, you have it covered.

Indices wrote:

SteinNebraska wrote:

Indices wrote:

Good for you.
As you consider there are no potential problems then there is no point in me elaborating.

On the contrary, if you know of something that I'm not aware of that could to be detrimental to upstream property of course I'm interested in hearing about that.  You have alluded twice to me seeing issues upstream in the next two years but no specifics or even generalities of what those issues might be.  Only vague innuendo.  Why is that?

You have stated there are no potential problems, no steps to take, which I assume relates to both your property and proposed crop selection so apart from having a good supply of Picaridin why would a fluid dynamics engineers opinion be of any use to you ? As you said, you have it covered.

Oh please, for the sake of the rest of us reading along, could you give him a concrete response?

Thanks in advance, Scarlett...

Indices wrote:

SteinNebraska wrote:

Indices wrote:

Good for you.
As you consider there are no potential problems then there is no point in me elaborating.

On the contrary, if you know of something that I'm not aware of that could to be detrimental to upstream property of course I'm interested in hearing about that.  You have alluded twice to me seeing issues upstream in the next two years but no specifics or even generalities of what those issues might be.  Only vague innuendo.  Why is that?

You have stated there are no potential problems, no steps to take, which I assume relates to both your property and proposed crop selection so apart from having a good supply of Picaridin why would a fluid dynamics engineers opinion be of any use to you ? As you said, you have it covered.

Figures.  We have a saying for guys like you back home.  All hat, no cattle.

SteinNebraska wrote:

Indices wrote:

SteinNebraska wrote:

On the contrary, if you know of something that I'm not aware of that could to be detrimental to upstream property of course I'm interested in hearing about that.  You have alluded twice to me seeing issues upstream in the next two years but no specifics or even generalities of what those issues might be.  Only vague innuendo.  Why is that?

You have stated there are no potential problems, no steps to take, which I assume relates to both your property and proposed crop selection so apart from having a good supply of Picaridin why would a fluid dynamics engineers opinion be of any use to you ? As you said, you have it covered.

Figures.  We have a saying for guys like you back home.  All hat, no cattle.

We have a saying too regarding those that claim to know everything but I will not insult you with it.
I will not waste time on a detailed projected analysis of your situation re farm location when you have stated you do not have a problem. I wish you and your project well.

Indices, can you post links to your former projects that show your name as being one of the projects engineers. If you want people to get involved, some evidence of your past projects will help.