COVID-19 and expatriation in Indonesia

Does the current crisis call into question your long-term expatriation project?

Not at all

If you are already settled in Indonesia, do you plan to return to your home country?

Well settled and I see returning to the UK as a cruel and unusual punishment

How are you living through such an uncertain period, especially if you are far from your loved ones?

No problems - Skype looks after communications

Have any of you ended your  expatriation in Indonesia unexpectedly?

Others may have - I will not

Paradoxically, has this crisis brought you closer to some people?

No

What are your plans for the future?

Just lost my job, don't give a flying rat's bum, and I'l worry about the undiscovered county tomorrow

Thank you very much for your feedback.

You're very welcome

As with Fred, I'm sticking this out just as I've gone through all the challenges facing Indonesia since the late 1990's starting with the financial crisis.

I've been checking with many of the expats I know here on Bali...and as of yet, I haven't found a one who has left, or is even thinking of leaving.

Good luck to all.   

My comments basically same as the above two posters.

My plans for the immediate future are just more of the same with the exception that since watching the teachers teaching our kids e-classes that we may turn to home schooling.

Ubudian wrote:

I've been checking with many of the expats I know here on Bali...and as of yet, I haven't found a one who has left, or is even thinking of leaving.

I tried and failed to think of a reason anyone would want to leave Indonesia for a country with far greater problems, and travel in an aircraft with potentially infected people to do so.
Frankly, the US and UK government advice I've seen is idiotic at best.
Apart from the fact I can't easily return to the UK, I have absolutely no interest in doing so as:
A - I love Indonesia
B - I can't think of a reason to return to the old country

The current situation has had very little influence for our plans, our plans have always been for our children to experience different cultures and travel, so Indonesia has never been planned as our main home, the longest I have stayed in this country in the last 7 years is 6 weeks and counting, its killing me (I love to travel).

Once all of this has concluded (Corona Virus), my position allows me to pick certain positions globally, so Plan A was to retire before the big 50, but I am tempted by a mid - long term project that will that will be between UK, Canada and Asia and with immediate family in all of these locations it may be to good an opportunity to pass but I have plans Bs and Cs

We wont leave Indonesia for good, but maybe for the odd Holiday here and we do have homes here etc so they will always be a connection and I am a firm believer with Never say never and be prepared to alter plans

Plans for the future are as I first mentioned above, personal plans I have 7 more countries to be able to say I have visited 100 in total and would like my kids to carry that on once I decide I cant be bothered any longer
If and its a big IF, if we did return to Indonesia to stay or indeed don't leave ( like I said never say never) I would need something to focus on so the odd time I have looked in to the possibility of setting up/ associated with sports / activities for the less fortunate and getting local business involved along with appropriate officials at certain levels, many of us are indirectly connected to a couple of orphanages, but I would need to call something my own and my own creation I cant sit for more than 5 minutes and need a challenge always

The risk in any developing country is the standard of care if one is unfortunate enough to get sick ,travel in itself is a big risk .

As we chose to live here ,I cross my fingers follow the accepted guidance and hope for the best ,until some form of treatment or vaccination is available .

I don't think Indonesian citizens would be allowed to go to the UK at the moment unless their spouse or children currently hold a UK passport although I am not even certain whether Indonesian couples would be allowed to go their based purely on their children having a UK passport. My wife is Indonesian and my two kids both hold UK passports so we could return to the UK as a complete family if we chose to. However, that would mean renting a place or staying with family or friends which is not an ideal situation. So we will take our chances in Indonesia.

They is a visa wsiver at the moment, uk citizens and indonesian wife / husband and children can go to the uk at the moment wife has 5 year visa kids various passports
Im fortunate as i have a house that said my nephew lives in it so i would hate to imagine haha

That's great. I've spent most of my adult life living around Asia and sold my last house there in 1986, so the only way would be to sell some property in Asia and then buy in the UK, but that is unrealistic at this time.

One of my best friends who is a CEO for a LDC keeps urging me to not come back to the UK because it has gone downhill so much and really sucks. Anyway, I cannot really see the point of self isolating in the UK, since as someone mentioned, a family of four traveling to the UK would probably get infected somewhere during that journey.

On top of that, with the general belief that Covid-19 thrives better in colder climates, it might well be safer to remain in a tropical climate.

The uk is fine, and myself being patriotic serving in the british forces just shy of 10  they is zero problem apart from the teen  idiots, people vote for and the false media who highlight issues from the 70s and 80s but change dates
I can assure you its the people who read and absored false information (sad individuals) who spread it
That said its down to choice if choice etc good luck to you and your family

"The UK is fine." 

Personally, I can only rely on what I hear from good friends that reside, right now in the US, UK and other countries.

Their input, anecdotal as it might be, does not convey to me anything akin to "things are fine." 

That being the said, the choice to stay here, or return "home" is very personal, and for those of us who have family born and raised in Indonesia, potentially difficult.

As I mentioned earlier, I stand with Fred for virtually the same reasons he will never leave. 

Right or wrong?  Who can tell?  The point, as I see it, is to decide what is best for yourself and your family.

Gwmeath, it's actually a matter of choice as others have said. Some people love the UK. I see myself returning there a long way in the future, but each time that I visit there I feel a bit depressed and two weeks is usually enough for me. And I agree with my friends, those who live there, those who live here, and family members who live there that the UK is not a very nice place to be recently. I mean, if it was so great then I go back to live there. But while there are nicer places to live such as Indonesia and pretty much most of Asia where living feels like being on a perpetual holiday, then I would much rather live here. I know the UK very very well, as much as any Brit. There is nothing about reading and absorbing false information. I just cannot imagine going back to a boring standard English life when there are better choices around.

Of course I could be like my brother who retired at 48 years old, and go to the pub every night and work in his allotment in his spare time. Well.....that doesn't interest me. I am retired and living somewhere exotic does it for me. And as I often say here, each to his own opinion since we are all different with different ways of seeing things. There is no right or wrong in this matter.

My comments about the uk is fine is not to the current corona issues but in general and yes a personal choice, they is no correct or wrong answer or choice in current cicumstances
I have indonesian children i also have children in the uk so doubly difficult
For myself my home country will always be number one nothing will come close to it, that is my choice, a hand full here have left with families some planned some not
But as i said i am in a position to grab our pasaports and leave if we wish to

Agree. My home country will always be number one, as far as remaining British.

Where do I begin? I love Indonesia, the people and their culture. I stayed in Bali for almost 4 years. After an operation in South Africa, I decided to stay in both countries. The main reason is the heat. I am not young anymore and I have to look after my health etc. Medical cover is crucial for me, but very expensive. I do have medical cover in my own country and also enjoy free medical insurance when I travel for up to 6 months at a time.

So it is to my own benefit to travel frequently between the two countries. I have a permanent residence in Bali which I share with the owner when I visit.

My hobbies include woodwork, restoring furniture and general DIY. I love animals and keep three dogs in Bali, which are well taken care of by the owner of the property, when I am not there.

That is roughly my background.

The crises changed everything except my spirit, and dreams. Things will get better, even if we have to relocate to another planet. This situation is very serious but we have to face it and work together to beat this.

I think now is the time to replan and remind yourself not to wait to do something. Learn another language in the meantime, get a new hobby, buy the new bike, go to Greece.... just dont sit and get yourself depressed.
 
Keep your bags packed and renew your passport.

Saya mau makan nasi goreng dan Bintang bir.

Selamat jalan.

Supervan.

The government response to this crisis has been shockingly slow.  You know there’s trouble when the Minister of Health claims that prayer is preventing any cases within the country and initially calling it a hoax, rather than giving more sensible advice.     
Now the country is finally doing something but it’s a bit too late and (like most things here) is not being enforced at all.  People are still doing Friday prayers and there’s loads of people out on the streets and in the mall.  Reduced shopping hours only increase the number of people that you come in contact with at the grocery store.   
A few weeks ago, it looked like there would finally be strict lockdowns starting to happen and closing of public transportation.  Sadly that is not the case.  The government is sending mixed messages to the public by advising us to stay at home and work from home but still allowing the “mudik” (everyone going back to their village for Ramadan). 
Newspapers around the world (besides Indonesian papers) are reporting that dozens of people have been arrested for posting demands on social media for  more transparency about the true number of COVID deaths and increased testing.
People here are very worried that long after the pandemic is gone, that democracy will still be recovering from this totalitarian resurgence.

1st.bass wrote:

Newspapers around the world (besides Indonesian papers) are reporting that dozens of people have been arrested for posting demands on social media for  more transparency about the true number of COVID deaths and increased testing.
.

I know of arrests because people were spreading fake news and defamation, but I haven't heard of anyone arrested for requesting transparency.
Perhaps you could link to a few stories, one from Indonesian press, perhaps another from the US, and one from the UK. I'd be quite interested to read them.

As a note, I'm aware of calls for the government to publish exact numbers of infected people, but it's impossible for any government to do this as no country has definite figures. The US has no idea how many Americans have been infected, the UK hasn't got a clue how many Brits, and Russia is in the dark, but critics here are moaning on about Indonesia not publishing.
Still, a good moan is always handy.

Well for my wife and I living in USA and both in healthcare we see that none of the management here cares about ppe.  So as soon as it all clears up and we can travel freely.  We will be out by end of year to the land that I so long to live in Indonesia.

Fred wrote:

As a note, I'm aware of calls for the government to publish exact numbers of infected people, but it's impossible for any government to do this as no country has definite figures. The US has no idea how many Americans have been infected, the UK hasn't got a clue how many Brits, and Russia is in the dark, but critics here are moaning on about Indonesia not publishing.
Still, a good moan is always handy.

That would be an impossible task for any country to accomplish including Indonesia. Firstly, you'd have to test 100% of the population and get an immediate result, and secondly the numbers of infected people would change by the minute or even by every second that passes. However, one thing for certain is that the more people tested, the closer we get to understnding the true number of people infected.

Covid19 might well be an excuse for some expats to leave any given country, but going to a country suffering more than Indonesia would be silly at best, especially when you consider you might have to sit in a tin box with possibly infected people around you for many hours in order to get there.
When you do get there, what do you expect? Apart from most countries in the EU, US, and UK being in a worse state, you have to consider other factors such as (In the case of Brits) over zealous cops threatening to arrest people, even nurses on their way home from work, difficulties in food supply in many countries (and idiotically long queues to get into shops), nutters holding mass events, and even worse idiots that use drugs in the street. The video in this piece show such fools, but it's the almost total non-attention passers by give them that tells the real story. Drug puddled idiots are so common, nobody even gives then a second look.

https://www.express.co.uk/videos/583382 … to-zombies

Covid19 is being handled pretty well here, probably better than in the UK, but you have to consider all the other stuff  as well, and that makes returning to the UK from Indonesia a pretty bad idea.

The situation here is calm, there's been little or no panic buying, all essentials (except Rice Krispies) are pretty much available, and the government, much as some moaners are having a pop at them, are doing a pretty good job in a very difficult situation.

Of course it isn't perfect, but how can anyone expect perfection in such circumstances?

I think it's not just that. Expats who are retired or married to a local Indonesian woman and with children might prefer to stay here in Indonesia. And those who have a house back in their home country, or who are on a working contract and not married to a local might choose to go back home especially since living in a far off country with no family with you can be daunting.

Certainly if one's home country is the UK or in the EU or even the US, then many of the above poster's points might ring true. However, there are also many countries who are handling the pandemic much better than others, Taiwan being a good example.

I agree and concur with such decisions. I also have not been able to get any repatriation flights back to the states, so I have found some great monthly rental rates at some beautiful apartments and hotels so I am staying put for now.
cheers.

They are flights back to the states, or should i say was on Friday via japan my friend just left with his wife and children and another leaves tomorrow, not many i agree, and yes rents etc very cheap now, many new builds here just been reduced by about 35%..... wife wants to go shopping haha

Gkaustin wrote:

I agree and concur with such decisions. I also have not been able to get any repatriation flights back to the states, so I have found some great monthly rental rates at some beautiful apartments and hotels so I am staying put for now.
cheers.

For those in such a position, but with more limited funds, Reddoorzs have some amazing deals on nightly stays, and you could probably negotiate with the hotel for even better rates. I've never been in a bad Reddoorz, but a few are a little jaded. The best are all but brand new and offer nightly rates of Rp130,000. Not at all bad for a clean and safe hotel.

Reddoorz here only allow muslims to use the hotels, but yes good prices to be had

Or should i say none muslims have recently been informed they cant stay

Gwmeath wrote:

Or should i say none muslims have recently been informed they cant stay

I know of one Muslim only Reddoorz in Jakarta, and several Muslim only Islamic hotels around. I rather like them because you never get prostitutes hanging around.

Probably quite fortunate in that area, reddoorz here (not all and only a handul at most) rely on the "entertainment business" here amongst other well known hotels

Gwmeath wrote:

Probably quite fortunate in that area, reddoorz here (not all and only a handul at most) rely on the "entertainment business" here amongst other well known hotels

I have been offered that unpleasant service in more than a few hotels, but most leave it alone when I make it clear I have no interest. One hotel near the BNI train station in Jakarta actually sent a pro to my room. I didn't appreciate that so I dragged her down to reception and told them exactly what I thought in front of people about to check in.
That's why I like the Islamic hotels in Jakarta, you don't get that rubbish in those places. One especially nice one is Sofyan Hotel Soepomo - It's clean, comfortable, has no nasty business, and they do a very pleasant breakfast.  They didn't say I had to be a Muslim to stay there so it's probably open to anyone, but married couples have to prove they're married.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/L8g7V2t7NUW9f3eu9

I strongly recommend it.

Does the current crisis call into question your long-term expatriation project?
If you are already settled in Indonesia, do you plan to return to your home country?

I intended to stay only until end of March after which I'd return to Europe. The long journey made me hesitate as prolonged exposure to crowds in airports en route to Europe seems scary at this time.

How are you living through such an uncertain period, especially if you are far from your loved ones?

Keeping in touch using online means is all I can do at this time.

Have any of you ended your expatriation in Indonesia unexpectedly?

I have friends who have gone back to their countries before their visas expired.

Paradoxically, has this crisis brought you closer to some people?

Undoubtedly, the shared circumstances have brought me closer to friends both in Indonesia where I am isolated, as well as across borders.

I've also become frustrated with some travelers who are here, who don't seem to take the lockdown seriously. They still go on their motorbikes in the evenings, and some hang out in outdoor cafes in groups.

What are your plans for the future?

I had planned to go home to Europe for the summer before moving to another country, and as soon as it is safer to do so, I will continue with this plan.

How about women who are married to an Indonesian man?

Mendaki000 wrote:

How about women who are married to an Indonesian man?

Exactly the same as for a man married to an Indonesian woman.

Well, I have a different experience living in a small town in Indonesia. I closed all my businesses as I don't see anymore future prospects or for some other reasons it didn't work for me as a viable income source. I am not going to renew my family kitas due in October and leaving for Canada before it expires. I love Canada, am emotionally attached, have the best free health care there. In crises they have the best emergency response system. I will take my wife there, will try asap to let her rejoin me in Canada. I have experienced living in middle east as well,  now at the end of my adventure in Indonesia after living a different life style for four years, couldn't adopt to indonesian way I tried. There are good things that I like here but that have a little impact. As for COVID-19 most ppl here don't see it a big threat but I do . The recovery rate is very low because ppl don't follow the precautions seriously or have some other beliefs about life n death. I saw ppl making jokes about the pandemic, pity on them. Doctors are not very professional rather commercial for their employers. In govt hospitals they are never punctual. For those with BPJS health cover, the poor ones, I saw them never been diagnosed properly, some of them in a resultant death due to health professionals' negligence. A friend recently died of COVID-19 because he was positive at one time, got recovered as he was told so, went to Cirebon and died there. No autopsy just informed the family members that he got corona positive again and couldn't survive. Long story short, If you have a choice of better life style in a developed country, go for it...

JayN I  sympathize with a lot of what you are saying, None of my local friends, and we know so many, use BPJS. The only thing you can do is get private medical insurance if you want better treatment, or even better, go overseas to nearby Singapore or Malaysia if it's something serious. However, even that is not easy these days thanks to Covid.

I also don't see Indonesia as our "forever" place to live. However, as we have income then this will remain our home for a few more years.

Canada is one of those amazingly beautiful places to live. I once was offered a transfer to Calgary to work in the Beaufort Sea but at that time I was based in Singapore and preferred the lifestyle I was having at the time. However, I wish you luck in the future and hope to read your future comments in this forum.

Thanks Dear for your kind words,
As for BPJS, I was talking about those poor indonesian, I see them vulnerable when it comes to proper health care. I have visited some patients in Govt hospitals and in some top standard private hospitals,  the formal was lacking proper care, while the later with high bills for unnecessary this and that... I have my family physician in Toronto and I visit him once in a year though it cost me for a round trip but to me health is a priority in life. Indonesia is a second home for me and I will come here once in a while. As my plans are changed now, I will go to Canada next month. If I see any future prospects in Indonesia I can alter my plan n come back to resettle. I hope for the best, will try my best to re connect Indo if opportunity comes with prospects. I am selling my car which is in a good condition. I have listed it on expat classified, trying to find the end user. Have some offers from resellers but the price is not yet agreed upon, pushing me for the price down, they are so tricky...
Regards