Belgium nationality refused

Hi,

Sorry, but it's entirely your fault.

To apply for Belgian nationality, you must have a minimum of five years of stay on Belgian territory / provide proof of real knowledge of one of the three national languages / prove your social integration.

And you are surprised that it was refused to you after you asked for a translator regarding a problem with the police. By doing this, you have clearly demonstrated that you did not intend to achieve real social integration. That what really interested you was having the Belgian passport so that you no longer needed a visa or work permit ...

i am permanet resedent
i live in belgium aroud 10 years and i work continously as self emplyed last 6 years,
if anybody continously work 5 years thay d' not have need any language diploma
only police asking basic language questions
in my case police send me email and asked me 7 or 8 quistions i reply him all answers very correctly
i also tell him i speak french if you are not satisfied of my answers ;you make oppintment with me i come police station but police send report against me in ministry

I appreciate the answer.  But frankly, even your answer demonstrates the reality of the situation.  You say that it's been ten years that you live in Belgium and six years that you work.  And your letter is in English ... Frankly, let's be serious, with the current climate and the feeling towards migrants, this is the demonstration of the feeling of admiration.

I can't understand properly your last reply. My English is not very good
All my conversations is with police in French via email

let's put in another way

- 10 years in Belgium
- 6 years of work
- still writing in English
- still need traducer to solve issue with administration
- French A2 level

Conclusion :
no real desire to become Belgian. Just person willing to take advantage of the system .
After 10 years, at least B2 level is mandatory

dear u know belgium is very difficult country about language

in ten years i live in three region every region have diffrent language how i learn B2 level language of any region

thanks for your helpfully reply

Yes, Belgium is challenging country in Europe about langages. But Pakistan and India also...

But this is the real challenge of expatriation.

india and pakistan has one national language so these countries are not difficult about language

belgium has three languages
learning 3 languages is difficult

Lucky and Lucky wrote:

india and pakistan has one national language so these countries are not difficult about language

belgium has three languages
learning 3 languages is difficult

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Frankly, you can make many people believe that.  But not to an expatriation professional like me.  I have been working with Indians from several provinces for several years and I even did a nine-month project for R.I.L. in Dahej in the state of Gujarat ...

Well.....................
I kinda really understand Phipiemar feelings, but yours as well.


You should consider starting french lessons... (Cours de Français langue étrangère)
At least for a time and to proof that you've some interest in integrating yourself in Belgium society and daily life.
it's in your own interest as well as you're living in Belgium since 10 years...



As you seems to live in La Louvière, your main contact should be http://www.cribw.be/
I suggest that you call them, they're really helpful. (I've already talked with them for my girlfriend)

Depending on your commune/area, you'll get access to free lessons during the day/evening depending on your level and the commune. Paid lessons are also an option if you can afford for it (although I would never recommend you to pay 500-1000 or even more € per month for that!!!).

My girlfriend has 16 hours of french lessons per month since February (way less now because of the corona***t ). She had some french lessons before coming in Belgium to live with me (the basic), but now she already got the A2 level...

Which is a damn low level... "hello my name is, I like xxx, where is the station?, I'd like to buy apples, I don't like, I'm sick, ...)"



If you take lessons from "partners" of cribw (meaning recognized by the region), you'll receive your certificate A2 or higher depending on your level at the end of the school session.
If you don't want to wait, you can take the examination at any center officially recognized by the region to get your certificate.
In your case, i strongly suggest that you get school certificate to confirm that you're willing to integrate...


But in any case, I agree with Phipiemar, after 10 years in Belgium, no matter how it was difficult for you, A2 level is... really too low... and you should provide them with a better certificate than A2



In actiris Brussel, you already have an A2 level certificate if you do 29/100........................................
That's freaking REALLY given to everybody for free....

hi Alex thank you very much everytime yours replies is very helpful for me

i am sharing some more detail maybe you understand my point of view

in 2011 i pased exam in Nederland language and integration course in french area this one is not exeptable

more then 6 years i continuously working . i have two grocery store every day i communicate with more then 300 clints i have many belgian friends.i am talking to my  accountent my doctor or offices in french.. my french speaking skill is not 100 %

6 months ago some one file case against me .. during parking my car hit his car...but i realy dont know....police invite me and tell me ;;your car hit other car on front side .. but his insurance send me letter;;your car hit by back side;; so i was very confused what happend with me..so police invite me 2nd time then i ask police for translater for understanding what is actullay case

4 months age i applied nationality 15 days before police send me letter via email that We did not interview you because you dont speak french..i reply him please invite me to police station ask me what you want i speak french also nederlands..but police asking me some questions via email i reply him..but police send negetive report in ministry about language
maybe due to coronavirus police not invited me to police station

Most of the time, police visits your home with the main purpose to verify that you're living there. Since it's not a language test so they only asks some very simple questions.

Did you include a language certificate in your application package?

hoangtrunghieu,

do you have an integration certificate?
https://www.liveinbelgium.be/civic-inte … ounsellor/

Lucky and Lucky wrote:

hi Alex thank you very much everytime yours replies is very helpful for me

i am sharing some more detail maybe you understand my point of view

in 2011 i pased exam in Nederland language and integration course in french area this one is not exeptable

more then 6 years i continuously working . i have two grocery store every day i communicate with more then 300 clints i have many belgian friends.i am talking to my  accountent my doctor or offices in french.. my french speaking skill is not 100 %

6 months ago some one file case against me .. during parking my car hit his car...but i realy dont know....police invite me and tell me ;;your car hit other car on front side .. but his insurance send me letter;;your car hit by back side;; so i was very confused what happend with me..so police invite me 2nd time then i ask police for translater for understanding what is actullay case

4 months age i applied nationality 15 days before police send me letter via email that We did not interview you because you dont speak french..i reply him please invite me to police station ask me what you want i speak french also nederlands..but police asking me some questions via email i reply him..but police send negetive report in ministry about language
maybe due to coronavirus police not invited me to police station

Lucky,
all your files are registered, and it is clear that you made some mess with insurance stuff. And if you really is able to speak/read/write in French, I don't get why you needed a translator.

But you wasting time explain things here, you need a Lawyer to make an appeal for you. But be sure you will need to present documents that assure your integration, and consider a hard interview. They wont take easy now, so if you appeal now be careful!

If you isn't so sure, take a fast French course, if you already can communicate, you can reach B1 in six months. Then reapply, but anyway be sure to talk with some layer or a representative 

http://www.allrights.be/comment-devenir-belge

KonstantinK wrote:

hoangtrunghieu,

do you have an integration certificate?
https://www.liveinbelgium.be/civic-inte … ounsellor/

Yes, both language and integration certificate.

Sorry, i didn't go through the whole discussion. However, written law about your question;

- you have to have A2 level knowledge minimum which you have already.

So, you can definitely go to a lawyer and open a case. You will win it for sure. During an accident, A2 level knowledge might not help you to sort out problems but anyway this is not relevant to citizenship process at all.

In short, request police and explain what happened. If they dont change the decision, go to lawyer. I am 100% sure that you win. It worths to give it a try.

yossupaga wrote:

Sorry, i didn't go through the whole discussion. However, written law about your question;

- you have to have A2 level knowledge minimum which you have already.

So, you can definitely go to a lawyer and open a case. You will win it for sure. During an accident, A2 level knowledge might not help you to sort out problems but anyway this is not relevant to citizenship process at all.

In short, request police and explain what happened. If they dont change the decision, go to lawyer. I am 100% sure that you win. It worths to give it a try.

Hello,

Why are you giving false hope to the person who started this thread?

Even the lawyer will reach the same conclusions as the majority of people. This person declares to have lived in Belgium for ten years and is still in its infancy in the use of at least one Belgian language ...

He can take the best lawyer in Belgium, apart from losing money, that will not change anything.

Hello,

Why are you giving false hope to the person who started this thread?

Even the lawyer will reach the same conclusions as the majority of people. This person declares to have lived in Belgium for ten years and is still in its infancy in the use of at least one Belgian language ...

He can take the best lawyer in Belgium, apart from losing money, that will not change anything.

Seems obvious that you're trolling here. Regardless of your views of the minimum language requirements to obtain the Belgian nationality the law clearly states a level of at least A2. So start another thread to have a sensible discussion about it and I'll probably agree with you.

Personally, A2  is a pretty low level but we're talking about an application already defined by law and Belgium is a country where the rule of law prevails and where there are checks and balances. I would try to be respectful to his case, since one's benefit to the country and to be a citizen isn't only about having exceptional language skills in one of the country's languages, but there are other metrics at play, particularly economically. For example, they communicate more in English in commercial or scientific international settings.

Clearly, the police overstepped their handling of the situation for an unrelated traffic matter. I have B2-C1 level of Dutch and if I was in an accident, with emotions flared up and having to navigate technical terms then I'll even be even probably be lost for words. Should that disqualify me then?

If he wants to bring a court case then he will definitely have a case if he does meet that minimum requirements and a consultation with a lawyer should clarify that. But before then, if he meets the language, economic and social requirements and doesn't abuse the social security system, then what's the real problem?

dambett wrote:

Hello,

Why are you giving false hope to the person who started this thread?

Even the lawyer will reach the same conclusions as the majority of people. This person declares to have lived in Belgium for ten years and is still in its infancy in the use of at least one Belgian language ...

He can take the best lawyer in Belgium, apart from losing money, that will not change anything.

Seems obvious that you're trolling here. Regardless of your views of the minimum language requirements to obtain the Belgian nationality the law clearly states a level of at least A2. So start another thread to have a sensible discussion about it and I'll probably agree with you.

Personally, A2  is a pretty low level but we're talking about an application already defined by law and Belgium is a country where the rule of law prevails and where there are checks and balances. I would try to be respectful to his case, since one's benefit to the country and to be a citizen isn't only about having exceptional language skills in one of the country's languages, but there are other metrics at play, particularly economically. For example, they communicate more in English in commercial or scientific international settings.

Clearly, the police overstepped their handling of the situation for an unrelated traffic matter. I have B2-C1 level of Dutch and if I was in an accident, with emotions flared up and having to navigate technical terms then I'll even be even probably be lost for words. Should that disqualify me then?

If he wants to bring a court case then he will definitely have a case if he does meet that minimum requirements and a consultation with a lawyer should clarify that. But before then, if he meets the language, economic and social requirements and doesn't abuse the social security system, then what's the real problem?

Not not trolling at all. This is how it works. Member asks for advice and other members give advice.

If I can offer some advice based on my experience of being a regulatory manager (albeit, not recently in Belgium).

Civil Servants at desk level don't interpret any laws, they may well have an opinion, but it's meaningless, they tick a box.  If the requirement is to have a diploma at a certain level, in a certain language, or to have been in possession of a residence permit for x amount of years, then that is exactly what they are looking for; if you don't have it, there is no tick in the box and the process stops at that point - the civil servant at desk level is not empowered to do anything else but reject your application.  The days of having professional immigration civil servants, who can make and more importantly, allowed in law to make judgement calls are long gone, many countries employ students looking for a few hours work for the simple reason that it costs too much money to employ them once they have a diploma, voters want better schools and hospitals, not better Immigration processes.

User protection is built into the appeal process.  Don't rely on EU rules to help you through Nationality issues, these are national government decisions as far as 3rd country nationals are concerned.

BLABLABLABLA! Keep wagging your mouth mister. Give the guy a break,learning a new language isn't always that easy.
Why don't you go to his country and lets see how far you get with languages.

If you don't have anything useful to say to him, please shut your mouth.
He didn't ask to be judged, but helped

kezz wrote:

BLABLABLABLA! Keep wagging your mouth mister. Give the guy a break,learning a new language isn't always that easy.
Why don't you go to his country and lets see how far you get with languages.

Dear,

But what a bombast for someone whose last participation was in 2017 ... You mean learning foreign languages, okay, let's go.  I speak six European languages ​​and two African languages.  And for the anecdote the Walloon of Liège.  I also worked in India.  And you...

kezz wrote:

If you don't have anything useful to say to him, please shut your mouth.
He didn't ask to be judged, but helped

Telling someone the truth is always better to give them false hope. This person has been in Belgium for ten years without mastering at least one of the national languages ​​of the country whose nationality he is applying for. The authorities' reaction is logical.

What do you think is going to be that of a lawyer?  He will do the same analysis.

I speak compassion and humanity. All brains are not created equals.

The minimum requirement according to the law is A2:
https://www.agii.be/thema/vreemdelingen … alenkennis

You should make an appeal and include that email where you replied in French and asked for an appointment with the police to discuss things in French.

phipiemar wrote:

kezz wrote:

If you don't have anything useful to say to him, please shut your mouth.
He didn't ask to be judged, but helped

Telling someone the truth is always better to give them false hope. This person has been in Belgium for ten years without mastering at least one of the national languages ​​of the country whose nationality he is applying for. The authorities' reaction is logical.

What do you think is going to be that of a lawyer?  He will do the same analysis.

If the law states the minimum level is A2 according the the LAW (and he can prove it from a certificate he got following classes) then how does an unrelated interaction with a police is relevant? The police would obviously have a subjective view of his level of French, but are they really the ones to assess that according to the minimum A2 level?

In case you need some clarification of what an A2 level entails:

"Understand frequently used expressions in most intermediate areas such as shopping, family, employment, etc, Complete tasks that are routine and involve a direct exchange of information. Describe matters of immediate need in simple terms." - source

Your contribution to this forum is problematic and counterproductive. Instead of giving advice in relation to the facts of the situation you are clearly spewing your prejudices with personal attacks about this person's level of integration. Having a A2 level (required by the LAW) obviously do not equate to mastering the language so why you think that it is logical that he is then refused the nationality? The only logical approach is to respect the facts and the law.

If you have a problem with the minimum language requirement of A2 then do that somewhere else.

Dear,

It is your right to disagree with my interpretation of the situation. However, when a ghost member (6 posts since your inscription in August 2020) like you wants to teach someone a lesson, they'd better introduce themselves first as required by the site charter and demonstrate their background.

If you find it normal that a person who has been in Belgium for years is still at level A2 in one of the three official national languages, then why ask for nationality? This person shows exactly his lack of interest in integrating into Belgian society even if he has done the minimum union ... And that his only interest is to have a red passport and not to have to worry about visas / permits anymore. job...

In conclusion, I will remind you of an old Belgian saying that says that before telling a person to clean in front of their door, you must clean in front of theirs ...

dambett wrote:

phipiemar wrote:

kezz wrote:

If you don't have anything useful to say to him, please shut your mouth.
He didn't ask to be judged, but helped

Telling someone the truth is always better to give them false hope. This person has been in Belgium for ten years without mastering at least one of the national languages ​​of the country whose nationality he is applying for. The authorities' reaction is logical.

What do you think is going to be that of a lawyer?  He will do the same analysis.

If the law states the minimum level is A2 according the the LAW (and he can prove it from a certificate he got following classes) then how does an unrelated interaction with a police is relevant? The police would obviously have a subjective view of his level of French, but are they really the ones to assess that according to the minimum A2 level?

In case you need some clarification of what an A2 level entails:

"Understand frequently used expressions in most intermediate areas such as shopping, family, employment, etc, Complete tasks that are routine and involve a direct exchange of information. Describe matters of immediate need in simple terms." - source

Your contribution to this forum is problematic and counterproductive. Instead of giving advice in relation to the facts of the situation you are clearly spewing your prejudices with personal attacks about this person's level of integration. Having a A2 level (required by the LAW) obviously do not equate to mastering the language so why you think that it is logical that he is then refused the nationality? The only logical approach is to respect the facts and the law.

If you have a problem with the minimum language requirement of A2 then do that somewhere else.

@phipiemar

To answer your question: actually, I find it problematic that the minimum level is A2, but that is a different discussion. Keep on track. The original poster explained his situation and asked for advice, but you instead you berated him. He will win if he goes to court, and that is based on my reading of a multitude of court cases when nationality is rejected. And it's a pity that so many has to go to court just to be overturned in favour of the nationality applicant. That wastes a lot of time and money.

As I said, start a new thread instead of being unnecessarily harsh in your responses that do not respect the facts/law of the situation. Be kind. Don't assume that immigrants who want to become Belgian are just here to take advantage of the social security system and not wanting to integrate socially to a reasonable level. The vast majority just want to be productive members of society, and to follow the law. And the law is clearly in his favour in case you need to be reminded of that.

Just in case you don't understand, Belgian legislators created the nationality law (obviously) and defined criteria, including for language. In his case, he doesn't even need to demonstrate his language skills since he has been working continuously for 5 years.

People are only following the law when wishing to become Belgian. And I hope we can agree that laws in the country should be applied as written and not based on subjective interpretations and qualms by local authorities. I hope you, as a Belgian, realise that the country is one where the rule of law prevails and that should be celebrated and defended.

Hello guys.Please I recently receive a refusal letter for my nationality and it is stated in the letter  .(Negetive Adviese) and that my nationality has been refused due to me been controlled twice whiles driving without my Begelerder.So please I really need help because I don't know what to do.If I should re apply or appeal.Please I need help.

Hello Pal, just a general advice from a British citizen new to Belgian rules.
Obviously, you should appeal, but you need to seek the services of a proper lawyer that specialises in that area.
Don’t try rushing the appeal.
Do it timely, professional and above all look for legit plans B, C etc God bless!

Thanks pal,I really appreciate your respond.

It's best to hire an immigration lawyer. I have heard similar cases where if you break the law, they refuse you citizenship. It's because you have to follow the laws of the country. If you have broken in the law in the past, they can use that to refuse you citizenship. You need a good immigration lawyer...

OK I already spoke to one which I have an appointment with on Monday.so I will see how it goes

hello dear group

i applied Belgium citizenship two months ago and the Commune gave me 4 months for decision.does anyone know i am still in risk or not?some people says that if you do not have refusal in two months so you crossed the risk time...does anyone know that?

@Muhammad Hanif69 It depends upon your personal situation. What is your situation in terms of resident of Belgium? How long have you stayed here? Are you a student or a professional and are you in possession of permanent residence? Which commune did you apply to?

Based on answers to these questions, someone with a similar commune can better guide you.

hello dear group
i applied Belgium citizenship two months ago and the Commune gave me 4 months for decision.does anyone know i am still in risk or not?some people says that if you do not have refusal in two months so you crossed the risk time...does anyone know that?
-@Muhammad Hanif69

May I ask which kind of problem are you afraid of? If you meet all criterias then I dont see why you would be scare of a rejection. In fact, you will normally be requested for further documents within the first 1-2 months. It does not mean that if you wont receive anything then its good.

The point is, receiving nothing before the deadline (inclusive) is a good sign. So,

@Peterjohn123 thank you for your answer.sorry for late reply.

Now 26 days remained for completing 4 months period.but i do not recieved anything from Commune which is great for me.your right what you said that in the begaining 1-2 months they can ask for something if they need.

I hope mine will be positive.