British family wanting to relocate

Hello Sami,

Thank you for your very nice introduction. 

How can we help you?

Thanks,

Priscilla
Expat.com Team

Hi Sammi, I replied your post on the Indonesian Forum.

As far as Malaysia goes, I am not sure if there are islands for lease or sale here, but others may know more or perhaps they can be found online. Schools are a lot more expensive than in Indonesia as are contractors. Getting a retirement visa or MM2H is quite easy in Malaysia though. And, nearly everyone speaks English whereas in Indonesia most people do not. Also, I have found that the general cost of living to be about 2 to 3 times more expensive in Malaysia than in Indonesia. Homeschooling is easy in Malaysia (and Indonesia). Schools with a western curriculum are very expensive in Malaysia.

Shill. You're tops.

The cost of living is top on the list as in the long run that's gona eat up the money saved.

We went Malaysia 2 years ago and that was great but not cheap.

I considered Philippines but the reason we decided on a muslim country is wholly to do with food as we love to get about visiting different places and having a meal at the different places we go cements the memories for us so being able to eat freely makes a big difference plus we are all avid meat eaters.

The decisive point on end destination will be ease or difficulty with the visa so that might dictate where we go

Hey Sammi,

When I lived in Malaysia I had Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) which is something like a retirement visa and unless things have changed it gives you 5  + 5 years allowing you to enter and leave the country as you please. You just need to have a regular monthly income of about Rm10k at the time of applying and to put a certain amount of money into an FD account. Once you have the MM2H you do not need to prove your monthly income, it's just a one time thing necessary for the MM2H application. It's easy to cover the wife and kids too. I obtained mine back in 2008 but was living in Malaysia since 2003/4. Yes the cost of living is a bit expensive if you compare to Indonesia but pretty much everything is easy to do. And it's important that you can buy property there under your own name be it freehold or leasehold and it is all very simple and straightforward.

Are you really just seeking an island or would it be fine to just rent or buy a place near a beach. There are plenty of parts of Malaysia that are less expensive such as along the east coast and still retain a lot of the village and small town feel about them.

As for moving to Indonesia, I won't comment on the Indonesian forum due to some animosity there, but renting a place is quite easy and applying for an initial 2 months tourist visa from the Indonesian Embassy in London will allow you to extend your visas so you can stay a maximum of up to 6 months. Also, the costs of going through all the formalities and general cost of living is much cheaper for Indonesia compared to Malaysia.

In my opinion, the medical facilities in Malaysia are far far superior than in Indonesia. Insurance is really cheap. I think I was paying between Rm4k - 5k for my family of four and it was that high because I was approaching 60 at the time. Also that is with a private room in case of hospitalization. I actually had two operations while living in Malaysia and the cost for my slipped disc operation was Rm20k and my insurance paid it directly as I was checking out of the hospital. In Indonesia, totally forget about BPJS, it's for extremely low income people and it means long queues and lesser treatment in my  opinion. It's actually meant for local Indonesians although a few foreigners with low budgets do it. For all my medical treatment in Indonesia I prefer to go to the better hospitals and pay myself.

Thanks Shill.
You've been super. We are on the early stages of planning so you advice helps direct us great.

For some reason I'm getting drawn towards Indonesia for some reason. If I cant get a whole island then possibly a farmstead on a island would be good. Alternatively maybe a small farm on a bigger island. If you haven't got the vibe, I wana get as far away as possible without going crazy. We still enjoy a technology and still need to give kids an education. Medically we're all pretty sound in health... my eldest has asthma but hes not on regular inhalers. He has peaks at different times of year.

Question really comes to where in Indonesia we could go. Don't want too touristy but don't want too untouched. Let me know if you have any thoughts

Thanks

There are so many islands in Indonesia. If you look east of Bali and Lombok there are some great places but I know little about them but I am sure you might well find a beautiful place to stay. In fact even there are many nice places all around Java Island, but heading more east brings you to Sulawesi, Sumba, Flores, Timor etc which are more wild but must be a really wild experience.

One of my favourite places is in the Padang area in West Java. Padang is a small city with a fishing port and some great beaches. It has many tropical islands that are stunning too. Heading inland from there you can find lots of rice paddies and farming land and it's not been spoiled by foreigners as it is fairly remote. It is also culturally and historically rich and probably really inexpensive to live. They have the Pacu Jawi which is their local form of bull racing. All around Padang and inland to Bukittinggi is very beautiful and fantastic if you are into photography.

I actually lived in Malaysia for 12 years and then headed over to Indonesia a few years ago which i find more undeveloped and scenically far more interesting. So I also agree that Indonesia might be a better choice. I have not regretted moving to Indonesia.

You're a wealth of information dude. I'm blessed to have found you.

Hopefully we can keep in touch while I'm going through the processes. Lots to do and decide, at the tip of an iceberg at mo

I'll chase you up in a bit

thanks

Sure no problem, happy to help whenever I can. There are lots of more experienced or knowledgeable people than me here so hopefully they can give you some input.

Just this visa issue. If we go the proper way it doesn't allow us the life we want. And then how do we even find work in these far off places

Is there a way of getting a local to sponsor so we can get to a more secluded island

What do you do for work? If you don't mind me asking

I haven't really worked since 2001 and these days I mostly invest in property. But I spent more than 35 years living/working in Asia.

For work procedures it's better to ask those who have the experience. If you have the funds you could do property biz in Malaysia but not in Indonesia because over there you are only allowed to lease it. But in Malaysia you don't have those limitations. In Indonesia people often lease a property for maybe 20 years or longer with the option of renewing. If you are set on a secluded island then I would look at Indonesia. I don't even know if they have them in Malaysia. Again, I don't know about sponsors in Malaysia, but in Indonesia people often use an agent who acts as a sponsor to makes things smooth. Be careful about getting ripped off though.

Dude I don't know if I said that you super. That would be a beautiful dream a property business but that's not the way its gona be.

I just now want a quiet life and more the anything is to be left alone. Go back to a real way of life. If that means secluded then so be it. My kids will initially curse me but then later in life they will thank me. My children mean everything to me so I see the way schooling and overall morals in society has become. The biggest gift I can give my children us to keep them away from this madness.

To carry on my dream without visas....

We find a nice little island we acquire which is maybe an hour or 2 away from town. This island by chance has great 4G signal 😜...

The town again by chance has a lovely little English medium school...

So the island is big enough for a few buildings plus a farmstead where we can grow some veg, keep chicken plus maybe goats.
1st a small building is erected temporarily for us to stay and then over the next 5/6 months build our home.

I'm able to use my skills or more so my tools to help the locals with their projects so they help back. We muslim so oneness of religion helps us find their confidence and begin  to like us.

My wife can find work in maybe a NGO or export company who need an experienced to private banking level employee. She is happy to travel at times but has enough time to be at home most times.

I can also help with charity projects or local development. Paid work would be great. Work done to a certifiable standard. Maybe for other Ex Pat's who want work done to UK level safety.

The kids get to swim every day. Use boats to get around as well as cars. Wake up hungry to go fishing or swimming etc

Sorry to carry on but that would be the dream but obviously what
is achieved and at what cost must be seen

Well your last post makes things immensely more difficult. You want isolation on an island but a 4G signal and a nearby English language curriculum school? Those are practically opposites. Sarawak has started up some English-language initiatives in Science and Math in the schools...but your kids will have to learn Bahasa Malaysian, and maybe some Mandarin (if the local school is Chinese). Sarawak was a former British colony (and under the Brooke Rajah's a protectorate) and it, and Sabah, are more English-speaking than much of the Peninsula, which tried to extinguish the use of English in schools and in public places for a couple of decades after Independence.

And you want to carry on your dream without visas? ...Everyone requires visas. If you want security from deportation you will need appropriate visas. If you or your wife work...then you'll need employment visas...which are nearly impossible to get. If she can be paid outside Malaysia and the work is done outside then an MM2H visa might be possible . That's another issue.

The rules for MM2H for the Peninsula and Sarawak are different...both in terms of proof of continuing overseas income and assets.

https://mtac.sarawak.gov.my/upload/file … itions.pdf

If you are under 50 in Sarawak the child must be attending a local school. Sarawak has more options some ways, less options in others.

https://www.sarawak.gov.my/web/home/art … w/221/279/

Not a lot of islands in Sarawak and most are protected areas. But there are areas near the beaches that you could possibly buy or lease. Native reserved land can only be leased. Some of the somewhat higher areas in the Sarawak Delta are only accessible by boat. But you'd need to park a car at a jetty to get into town, for the kids to go to school, etc.

The islands off Padang in West Sumatra are notorious for their malaria. I think it would be much harder to buy land in Sumatra (the only Westerners I know who have done it were married - or had to marry- an Indonesian). Indonesia would not have English curriculum schools except in the largest cities.

Sabah (also in Malaysian Borneo) is another option. Islands but they are generally occupied. Those in the South, particularly an isolated non-Suluk fishing family would be a target for al- Jama'a al Islamiyya groups from the Philippines - which is not far away. Even fishermen are occasionally targeted. It's relatively safe for tourists visiting as the navy patrols the waters close to towns and resorts. Safer world be the Northern coast of Sabah, again the same rules for MM2H visa would exist (not supposed to work in Malaysia) although Sabah's financial requirements are more similar to the mainland. It's a retirement visa...not an immigration visa.

Thanks for that. Great info.

Was joking about 4g but not about schools.

Possibly have to rethink the small island dream and settle for close to the beach. A town seems better then a city. Trading city life for city life seems pointless.

Sabah and surrounding might cause more headaches then not. Don't wana duck and dive from those freak extremists. We are very much live and let live and maybe help each  other along the way.

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Yeah mate I think you right. School 1st then higher ground that is driveable to the beach every day. 4g internet will be ok.

The whole point is to get away from mindless and useless tech. As I said I'm a sparky so I not only understand but I work with tech every day and it's not going in the right direction.

Too much information without the ability to understand and digest it.

Have you seen what these kids and even adults are doing on their youtube "channels"? For example.. Ghost hunting. They are going into volatile places where they reside and invoking Jinns.. that they call spirits!! Just to film it. Wanting to get possessed.

This isn't a joke. My family, we are
descendants of shiekhs that that went to Bangladesh as missionaries from Mecca near a 1000 years ago. The stories I can tell you are mad.

Sorry I don't want to sound superstitious but the things warned about is all being accessed by tech and the internet.

Theres open love of "magic".. ok most of it is illusions but some of it is real magic.

My problem is when my son says he wants to be a magician as theres white magic and black magic. After watching Harry Potter.

Magic is magic and only the Jinn can do magic. Not that I'm scared of jinn kind but I understand, can digest and make some sense of this information.

That's just the tip of an iceberg.

Internet has been the worst invention for mankind, closely followed by the magic of television.

So I pray the Lord will grant me the chance to save my children as He will save your children insha Allah. You guys have already made the great step already so I hope yo join you soon.

Sorry about the rant.

All about acquiring a visa by the looks of it before any other plans can be made.

The plan is to come out to Indonesia in 2ish years time hopefully. Obviously on holiday but hopefully also to check out different locations.

I think Lombok might be out due to the massive volcano. The bigger islands like Java might be too populated.

Which side is there more tsunamis?

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And except for Java and Bali you won't find many schools that gave some curriculum in English...and substantial amounts will be in Bahasa Indonesian. Smaller Islands have a risk of malaria and no schools. Indonesians, except for the elite and tourist guides, don't generally have fluency in English. I suspect that you have to learn some Indonesian. Because of their colonial past Malaysians generally speak more English...although just after independence there was a big push to convert everyone to speak the "national languages". BTW if you start learning Conversational Indonesian and decide that it isn't the better choice... Conversational Malay is quite close. Except for some words and phrases they are largely transferable. Indonesian contains more Dutch borrowings, Malay more English. They are easy to learn, with few difficult pronunciations and fairly simple grammar.

Remember that Indonesia is a vast archipelago- in distance as wide as the USA, with several large and thousands of small islands. Malaysia is more compact in comparison, but still about twice as large as the UK...and split between East (or Peninsular Malaysia) and West (or Sarawak+Sabah on the north coast of Borneo). While Indonesia is on the "ring of fire" and subject to earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and in some parts, typhoons and flooding...Malaysia actually avoids those natural disasters.

Jinn are everywhere, the Earth was their dominion numerously. They are attracted to people and places that are easier access hence the West. Shaytans' biggest accomplishment is to make the masses forget who he is.... a jinn, a demon, the greatest of deceivers.

We have programme called Lucifer where he is depicted as a good guy even in his bad ways.

You see Fred mate what my fear is? How can I fight what is considered normal.

Obviously it's a long ass journey so I think gona do multi stop. The kids would go ape otherwise. Usually when we come to your side of the world we stop at Dubai for a couple of nights but sick and tired of those scatty, rich, classless  scumbags.

Maybe stop in Egypt if we can get connecting flights. Been there before.. Sharm was lovely but Egyptians are not headed.

Couple of nights in  Jakarta and go from there. Maybe I'll pop into Java to say hello and you can get some of that illegal Gin to try. I'm a Vodka/rum guy myself so I'll get you a bottle of Barcadi. If you lucky I'll make u some cocktails as that's what I did when I lived in the U.S in 2000.

Not that I've had a sip since we got from Turkey last year and time before that was the year before in Malaysia.

Is vaping allowed in Indonesia?

Thanks Apeman. Inevitably we'll learn the Language... only a fool wouldnt. Malaysia is lovely but run by the Saudis. We want to be left alone but saying that. Better Malaysia then North London.

We might have to come to medium sized island or Java. I think Fred's right, the small island is a Peking duck. Possibly a small farm near the coast is best. Dutch and English are both Germanic languages which with a bit of effort could be learnt but more likely learn the local language.

The attraction for small island and small community was to be left alone but I suppose with that come a but too much seclusion. Wouldnt be fair on the kids.

Ultimately the Visa will dictate.  Where are you based Cinnamonapeman?

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