Belgian citizenship and AI(Orange card)

Hello

Temporary resident card (orange card) is not considered as a legal stay of more than 3 months, that can be counted for the 5 years of stay. (same goes for annexe 25, 26 and 35)
Only "long stay" resident card (1 year+) can be counted in the calculation of the 5 years. (==> only A, B, C, D, E, E+, F, F+ cards or the annex 8 & 8bis)

An orange card is valid 3 months maximum ("short stay"), which is renewed each time it is needed by a time frame of 3 months (+ police check at home).
Meaning, that it is interpreted by the law as an interrupt of your legal stay in Belgium, even if you were still "legally" staying in Belgium.

In your case, you'll have to wait 5 years after the issue date of your F card to request the Belgian nationality.



You can read the Belgian nationality code from the 28th June 1984, modified on the 4th December 2012 if you want.
https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi_l … 1984062835

Thanks Alex for your answer!
But there is something still that bothers me.
I am ok if they ask me extra 50 more days  just to compensate the period on Orange Card. But why should they consider it interruption of residence?! This is something I cannot digest.
I was respecting always the deadlines, and procedures and I have been always in possession of  a valid residence title. Orange card is an official document issued by Belgian government, I did not produce it by myself. So juridically this is contradictory, as with orange card the holder can reside and work legally in Belgium up to 6 months and it is renewable.
I am starting to doubt that this law looks very stupid.
Because:
1. Family member of Belgian? Period on Orange card not accepted.
2. Family member of European (British, Greek, Romanian, Polish, etc)?
Orange card is accepted automatically no questions asked.
Result is that Europeans got much more rights in Belgian soil than Belgium's fellow citizens.

Moreover there have been two rulings for this doth in NL and FR:
https://www.agii.be/sites/default/files … werpen.pdfhttps://www.agii.be/sites/default/files … bergen.pdf

If anyone can suggest a lawyer specializing in nationality cases please let me know

Hello Edigj

let's resume:
* You've been staying in Belgium for 2 years with an A card.
* Then you've been temporary allowed to stay in Belgium for 50 days with a temporary orange card waiting for your F card.
The annexe 19ter is not taken into account in the calculation of the 5 years of legal stay.
* Then you've been staying in Belgium for 3 years with a F card.


No matter what, you have a gap/interrupt in your legal stay of 50 days... and your commune is right...


The orange card can't even be counted as "temporary absences from the territory" (such as vacation), as you had no legal right (yet) to live in Belgium at these time.
Annexe 19ter is NOT an authorization of legal stay, it's just a temporary acceptance of your presence in the territory, that can be removed/canceled at any time by the immigration, while a resident permit process is ongoing
If the immigration accept your case, then they offer you a legal stay through the F card, with a validity of 5 years + no work permit needed anymore.
Only when you receive that card, you're under legal stay again.


It's CLEARLY stated that annexe 19ter (orange card) is NOT taken into account for legal stay.
We don't know the context of the 2 cases you're linking, so it's impossible to know if it's relevant on your case...
Even if it's true that EU citizens have more rights than Belgian one on the immigration topic in Belgium... (due to family right abuse...)
So, these decisions are clearly EU - non-belgian - focussed...




You can pay any lawyer you want, maybe it will work in appeal IF you can send the file to the immigration...
But you've to realize that you'll never see a judge before 1 to 3 years in appeal... (overbooked...) and the process itself already take nearly one year...
By that time you'll already have your 5 years of stay under the F card.................




At the end, you'll need a residence certificate with history of addresses and stays, that you can be downloaded online (commune website or https://www.ibz.rrn.fgov.be/fr/registre … n-dossier/ )
And you should see the interrupt on it......


Sorry but to me, it's clearly a dead case... you'll need to wait 2 more years...
You should have renewed your A card a third time, then switch to a F one... (under the validity of one year of that A card)
That's stupid, you didn't knew, but that's how it is... 



You can contact http://www.allrights.be/ or http://www.adde.be before paying for a lawyer...

Hi everyone,

My situation is similar to Edigj and I'm curious to know if she has progressed with submitting her declaration.

After reading the info from the URLs below I think it would be possible to granted the Belgian nationality but only after a court case before a 'Rechtbank van eerste aanleg'. I've based that on a court ruling for Leuven (where I live) where they sided with the defendant after the public defender denied their request. Many court rulings in different jurisdictions have so far have allowed any form of legal allowance to stay in Belgium for more than 3 months to be considered within the requirements of the law except for the juridical area of Antwerp that I'll explain below.

A ruling came less than 10 months after they submitted the the nationality request on the basis of being integrated. Based on my understanding of the judgement they would also consider the orange card as a form of legal stay. Since it wasn't followed up by the court of the appeal for that judicial jurisdiction then a new court case should get a similar result. However, if you live within the judicial area of Antwerp then it may be more likely a court case will not be in your favour since the appeal court ruled in favour of the public prosecutor.

https://www.agii.be/rechtbank-van-eerst … 08-05-2017https://www.agii.be/nieuws/hof-van-bero … blijf-voorhttps://www.agii.be/nieuws/rechtspraak- … ionaliteithttps://www.agii.be/nieuws/komt-verblij … -belgische

Also when I see the following text "Annexe 19ter is NOT an authorization of legal stay, it's just a temporary acceptance of your presence in the territory, that can be removed/canceled at any time by the immigration, while a resident permit process is ongoing" it just makes me realise how much mental gymnastics you have to go though to reason that the orange card is not a form of 'legal stay'. I think it's a bit silly but in legal matters the meaning of words are very important. The orange card gives you legal permission to stay in the country so of course it's a form of legal stay. During that time you can even work. You can live, breath, work, pay taxes but somehow it's not 'legal stay'. What a strange country it can be indeed since legislature is just very sloppy with the writing of this law. It's a shame that so much time and money is wasted for something that basic reasoning can determine is unjust.

Yup it can work in front of a judge, but you'll wait many months/years to see one...and with the corona it's even worst than when I did explain it...
You're absolutely not sure that it will work out for you... => money & time cost...


Administration & especially immigration are always difficult to understand... fair enough.
But the orange card is a: "Attestation d'immatriculation" - Certificate of registration.
It means what it means: you're registered in a Commune and that document give you access to stay in Belgium while a family reunion request is pending, nothing more and can be revoked anytime by immigration.

Edigj wrote:

Thanks Alex for your answer!
But there is something still that bothers me.
I am ok if they ask me extra 50 more days  just to compensate the period on Orange Card. But why should they consider it interruption of residence?! This is something I cannot digest.
I was respecting always the deadlines, and procedures and I have been always in possession of  a valid residence title. Orange card is an official document issued by Belgian government, I did not produce it by myself. So juridically this is contradictory, as with orange card the holder can reside and work legally in Belgium up to 6 months and it is renewable.
I am starting to doubt that this law looks very stupid.
Because:
1. Family member of Belgian? Period on Orange card not accepted.
2. Family member of European (British, Greek, Romanian, Polish, etc)?
Orange card is accepted automatically no questions asked.
Result is that Europeans got much more rights in Belgian soil than Belgium's fellow citizens.

Moreover there have been two rulings for this doth in NL and FR:
https://www.agii.be/sites/default/files … werpen.pdfhttps://www.agii.be/sites/default/files … bergen.pdf

If anyone can suggest a lawyer specializing in nationality cases please let me know

How is it going?
As http://www.allrights.be/devenir-belge/i … jour-legal stated that orange card that results in an F card will not count as interruption so you should be fine if I see it correctly.

IMHO don't waste your time trying to understand the people on commune, immigration office and all the bureaucracy in Belgium. My wife is a third national and we only solve the problem with her residence/orange card after we contract a lawyer. It's expensive? Yes, but solve the problem and took out of my shoulder a big stress, time wasting and money with documents, translations, work hours missed, etc.

In our case we use the services from the Altea firm, specifically the Ms. Catherine de Bouyalski lawyer. They're specialized on the immigration law.

Good luck.

Hello,

How is it going?
As http://www.allrights.be/devenir-belge/i … jour-legal stated that orange card that results in an F card will not count as interruption so you should be fine if I see it correctly.

From the link you are probably referring to this text:
"dans le cadre d'une demande de regroupement familial avec un européen qui a aboutit sur l'obtention d'un titre de séjour de type F"

She obtained her F card, according to her message, based on her relationship with a Belgian and not another citizen from the EU. Because of that, The law then considers that period as an interruption since it is not listed as one the types of residence documents. It is of course very strange and court cases have already considered the orange card as a form legal stay. However, to have that considered then when the nationality application is rejected one will have to make an appeal to the courts that. If you're in that situation then that's a chance, an one can get a ruling within one year.

However, because the court of appeal in the legal area of Antwerp have ruled that orange card is not a form of legal stay, because they want to respect a literal interpretation of a badly written law, then if someone lives in that area, they would be out of luck.

Thanks for asking, I had to see lot's different lawyers to find one who really 'does the job' in terms of nationality. There are not too many who had first hand experience in such cases. I think I found one and he is preparing my file and will apply in 2 weeks and will tell you the feedback in some months.

I hope that your application will go smoothly. I found that administrative works here are very annoying. Waiting for your good news.

Hello, Did you manage to solve your problem? I am currently in a similar situation. I switched from A to F card more than a year ago, and will soon have 5 years of uninterrupted stay in BE. I never got an orange card since my previous A card was still valid. Nonetheless, in Ghent city commune they told me I cannot apply for citizenship since they will only consider my stay on F card due to some statut they adopted mid-2020. According to this you can only use specific documents to prove your stay in BE. If you are a holder of F card this can only be your F card. Previous cards do not count. In other words, you cannot switch from F card to nationality by any means unless you were a holder of F card for minimum 5 years. This is something totally new, unrelated to orange card. I am wondering if you know anything about this? Thanks!

Hi!
My situation I applied nationality in January this year but before then I was on F card before it expired I applied for F+ got it in November 2020. The this year January I sent my file and early February I got police control now waiting on their decision. Hope this helps you.

There perhaps any amendment has been executed, however, I do not see any update.

From my knowledge and from what you have said if it is exactly that

1. you have not receive any A.I card
2. AND you received your F card "BEFORE" the expiraton of your A card
3. AND you still have that valid A card in hand at the time

then I think its fine. Otherwise, you may ask your commune the detail document of the amendment they adopted (you said)

Usual link https://www.agii.be/thema/vreemdelingen … sprocedure

The new amendment, if I understood correctly, actually will also count months spent on the orange card towards citizenship (bellow)!

"De lijst waarvan de wijziging wordt beoogd, houdt voortaan rekening met alle verblijfsdocumenten die worden afgegeven aan de betrokken personen voor de periode van de behandeling van hun verzoek, zelfs degene met een voorlopig karakter, voor zover de houders niet het voorwerp uitmaken van een schrapping wegens verlies van het recht tot het verblijf."

I lived in 3 countries so far and administration is annoying everywhere! I hope you will get your BE nationality!

Hello,

This is the first time I'm hearing this. It seems a bit strange though before you go to a lawyer you can seek advice from allrights.be or myria.be

Technically if you have not had a Orange Card then your A cards and F card should prove legal residence for the purposes of the nationality law.

dambett wrote:

Hello,

This is the first time I'm hearing this. It seems a bit strange though before you go to a lawyer you can seek advice from allrights.be or myria.be

Technically if you have not had a Orange Card then your A cards and F card should prove legal residence for the purposes of the nationality law.

Many thanks for your response and advices! In certain moment I mixed up my responses between 2 posts, but I posted an original question related to my situation here: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 01#5065625

Indeed, I am researching this at the moment, will provide some update as soon as I find answers. I believe that there will be no obstacle in combining the residence cards, and that the city-hall clerk was not informed enough.

hi how much time was left on your F card before you applied for the F+?

Hi.
I applied for F+ 6 months before my card expired. I sent a mail to city hall and they started the process. Where I live things are fine different 3 months before my card expired I got mail from city hall that my F card is expiring to go get a new one.

Just an update on the topic.
I become Belgian recently even thought commune was trying to make my life difficult.
So the answer is yes, orange card does not count as interruption.

Congratulations!

Congrats!!! Did you still pass your application through the commune or from a lawyer?

Peterjohn123 wrote:

Congrats!!! Did you still pass your application through the commune or from a lawyer?

Application via commune, however I had hired a lawyer and he made a resume of all my historic of residence permits. I asked the commune to include this letter in my application. 
I am not sure if this helped.

Congratulations on your Belgian nationality! Could you please kindly share the contact of the lawyer that advised you on your case? Thanks a lot!

Irina Li44 wrote:

Congratulations on your Belgian nationality! Could you please kindly share the contact of the lawyer that advised you on your case? Thanks a lot!

Thanks a lot!
PM sent!

Hi Edigi,

can you please share the contact information of your lawyer? I have the same situation as your and my request is rejected due to the Orange card I had. Can you please also let me know how much it cost to consult with the lawyer?

Thank you in Advance!
Fahimeh

Hello all,

Just for a supplement to the original case that if you got a gap due to orange card "right before" you got your F card then it must be fine. You do not need a lawyer for this because there has been a few court case conclusions on this. Reason:
- F card has an retroactive effect which gives the F card the validity from the beginning of the application and not from the date you receive the F card!

If the commune says refusion, you can ask it to just send to the ministry.

@Fahimeh Shamsaei hi, I can see it’s been nearly two years since your post but I’ll give it a shot. Did you appeal the decision or just waited for the F card to expire?

Hi Edigj,

We have similar situation and I was wondering if you can share the contact information of your lawyer. I know it is long time ago, but it would be helpful for us.

Regards

@jetmir

I have sent you a PM

@Edigj Please can you share the contact

Goodmorning

@Edigj Hello Pls, can you help us with the law firm contact. Thanks a lot and congrats

@Edigj Hello, we're experiencing a similar situation about the orange card - would you mind sharing the details of your lawyer? Really appreciated!

Thanks!

Hello dears,

I've found this amazing platform and this post by coincidence.

I've almost a similar case but I arrived to Belgium in September 2019 and got married December 2019.

Got my orange card in January 2020 for 6 month, and then I got my F card in June 2020.

My question is: can I apply for the Belgian nationality starting January 2025? Or should I wait until June 2025?

I've read all replies above but asking in case there's a change in the rules.

    Hello dears,
I've found this amazing platform and this post by coincidence.

I've almost a similar case but I arrived to Belgium in September 2019 and got married December 2019.

Got my orange card in January 2020 for 6 month, and then I got my F card in June 2020.

My question is: can I apply for the Belgian nationality starting January 2025? Or should I wait until June 2025?

I've read all replies above but asking in case there's a change in the rules.
   

    -@Mohammadkassab992

You can apply for citizenship in September 2024 if your legal residence started in September 2019.

@ABS25 my question is whether my legal residence starts from having thep orange card or F card?

Thank you

    @ABS25 my question is whether my legal residence starts from having thep orange card or F card?
Thank you
   

    -@Mohammadkassab992

It starts from your date of first annexe 15 which was issued to you in September 2019. Annexe 15 is issued when you visit the town hall (to tell them your arrival and address in Belgium) after arriving in Belgium.

    @ABS25 my question is whether my legal residence starts from having thep orange card or F card?
Thank you
   

    -@Mohammadkassab992

If you did not declare your arrival in Belgium untill your marriage then in that case when you got orange card, you also got annexe 19ter. It is the date of issuance of annexe 19ter which is the starting date of your legal residence. If you were not given annexe 19ter then it is the date of issuance of your orange card.