Overseas Vietnamese (Người Việt Hải Ngoại) returning to Vietnam

tyel wrote:

Hi there, I am Tyel. I was born in Vietnam but live in Germany almost my whole life.

I have been traveling to Vietnam in the past for a couple of weeks, but I wanna go back to Vietnam and stay there for up to 6 months once the pandemic is over and it's safe to travel again. I want to find out, if I can imagine to return to Vietnam permanently later, for living and business reasons.

Is there something like a meetup or community network for Việt Kiều (Overseas Vietnamese) in Vietnam (preferably in Hanoi or HCMC) who are also in a similar situation? If not, maybe we can initiate one?

Thank you so much.

Greets,
Tyel

Maybe you just started the thread everyone will use.

I hope you get many good replies.

Welcome to the forum!

P.S. You can trust anything Ciambella  tells you.

tyel wrote:

Is there something like a meetup or community network for Việt Kiều (Overseas Vietnamese)

Welcome to the forum.

I haven't come up with the answer to your question yet, so for now, this is a little FYI: 

Việt Kiều is a term which Vietnamese nationals use to refer to all Vietnamese living abroad, but it's a misnomer.  The word 'kiều" means a person who lives, courtesy of someone else, in a place where he doesn't belong.  Thus, Việt Kiều is a Vietnamese national who lives temporarily in another country for a specific reason, courtesy of the host country, and must return to VN when the reason is no longer valid.

Overseas Vietnamese are not Việt Kiều, they're Người Việt Hải Ngoại, the literal translation. 

If you decide to move back to VN, in the eyes of the law, you're neither a Việt Kiều returning home nor a Vietnamese (unless you did not give up Vietnamese citizenship when you became a German citizen).  If you're no longer a Vietnamese citizen, the government here would call you "người nước ngoài gốc Việt" (a foreigner of Vietnamese origin). 

Similarly, on this forum, you're not a Việt Kiều but a "German looking for information about VN", and when you move back, "German expat in VN."

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

tyel wrote:

Hi there, I am Tyel. I was born in Vietnam but live in Germany almost my whole life.

I have been traveling to Vietnam in the past for a couple of weeks, but I wanna go back to Vietnam and stay there for up to 6 months once the pandemic is over and it's safe to travel again. I want to find out, if I can imagine to return to Vietnam permanently later, for living and business reasons.

Is there something like a meetup or community network for Việt Kiều (Overseas Vietnamese) in Vietnam (preferably in Hanoi or HCMC) who are also in a similar situation? If not, maybe we can initiate one?

Thank you so much.

Greets,
Tyel

Maybe you just started the thread everyone will use.

I hope you get many good replies.

Welcome to the forum!

P.S. You can trust anything Ciambella  tells you.

Nice! Thanks for the welcome and reference.

Ciambella wrote:

tyel wrote:

Is there something like a meetup or community network for Việt Kiều (Overseas Vietnamese)

Welcome to the forum.

I haven't come up with the answer to your question yet, so for now, this is a little FYI: 

Việt Kiều is a term which Vietnamese nationals use to refer to all Vietnamese living abroad, but it's a misnomer.  The word 'kiều" means a person who lives, courtesy of someone else, in a place where he doesn't belong.  Thus, Việt Kiều is a Vietnamese national who lives temporarily in another country for a specific reason, courtesy of the host country, and must return to VN when the reason is no longer valid.

Overseas Vietnamese are not Việt Kiều, they're Người Việt Hải Ngoại, the literal translation. 

If you decide to move back to VN, in the eyes of the law, you're neither a Việt Kiều returning home nor a Vietnamese (unless you did not give up Vietnamese citizenship when you became a German citizen).  If you're no longer a Vietnamese citizen, the government here would call you "người nước ngoài gốc Việt" (a foreigner of Vietnamese origin). 

Similarly, on this forum, you're not a Việt Kiều but a "German looking for information about VN", and when you move back, "German expat in VN."

Thanks for the welcome.

Oops, turns out I have no idea in terms of Vietnamese speaking. Thank you so much for the explanations. Obviously I need to practice more Vietnamese. So I'd better change the thread title to

Overseas Vietnamese (Người Việt Hải Ngoại) returning to Vietnam

to reduce confusion?

tyel wrote:

So I'd better change the thread title to

Overseas Vietnamese (Người Việt Hải Ngoại) returning to Vietnam

to reduce confusion?

Very few members of this forum read Vietnamese, but including that translation would help many people to know the difference.  Yep, I'll say go for it.

Tyel,

Welcome to the forum. 

I grew up in California.  I even went to war (Desert Storm) for the USA.  But, I have been here, on and off, since 2009.  It's all possible, if you really want it.

I started a group similar to the one you mentioned a few years ago.  But, there were too many odd-balls, coming here for the wrong reasons.  So, I have been going it alone, with the locals, or other expats.

If you really want to come back here to learn about your roots, create something that your children can enjoy, or leave behind something that the young people here can look up to, feel free to look me up.

But, if your goal is to sell inflatable dolls, snake oils, or just hit the karaoke scene, please don't bother.  There are just ways too many things to see and do here...  I have no time for such.

Again, welcome to the forum.  I really hope you will be able to come back here and flourish.

Sincerely,
Howie

Ciambella wrote:

tyel wrote:

So I'd better change the thread title to

Overseas Vietnamese (Người Việt Hải Ngoại) returning to Vietnam

to reduce confusion?

Very few members of this forum read Vietnamese, but including that translation would help many people to know the difference.  Yep, I'll say go for it.

I usually do this for other people, because by this time it's too late for her to change the title of the thread. But this time I'll let the two of you do it.

Figure out what you want the new title to be.

Go to the first post of this thread (the OP)

Click on the link to report the post.

In the pop-up screen, tell admin what you'd like to change the title to.

submit that as a report.

Admin reads those and if they want to they will change the name of this thread

We all know that languages are not static and that the meanings of words and phrases change over time.  The classic example is that when someone says "Have a Kleenex" it may be another generic tissue and not necessarily the one made by Kimberly-Clarke.  Perhaps the term Việt Kiều is one that has similarly changed over time and become more universal.  Maybe it no longer applies only to a particular subset of Vietnamese living in other countries.  My understanding of Vietnamese is of course filtered through my wife, but she seems to use the term Việt Kiều to apply to a range of people with different circumstances.  I should stress that this observation is with respect to conversation and informal writing, such as on this forum.  Correspondence and decrees involving the Vietnamese immigration authorities and scholarly writings will certainly use more precise terms. 

In response to the OP's original query, you might want to check out an agency called Kiều Bào Việt in HCMC.  They no longer seem to have a website but they do have a Facebook page.  My understanding is that they are a non-governmental agency providing assistance to overseas Vietnamese.  I cannot particularly vouch for them but just want let you know of their existence.  All of their material does seem to be in the Vietnamese language.

Wild_1 wrote:

Tyel,

Welcome to the forum. 

I grew up in California.  I even went to war (Desert Storm) for the USA.  But, I have been here, on and off, since 2009.  It's all possible, if you really want it.

I started a group similar to the one you mentioned a few years ago.  But, there were too many odd-balls, coming here for the wrong reasons.  So, I have been going it alone, with the locals, or other expats.

If you really want to come back here to learn about your roots, create something that your children can enjoy, or leave behind something that the young people here can look up to, feel free to look me up.

But, if your goal is to sell inflatable dolls, snake oils, or just hit the karaoke scene, please don't bother.  There are just ways too many things to see and do here...  I have no time for such.

Again, welcome to the forum.  I really hope you will be able to come back here and flourish.

Sincerely,
Howie

Howie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    You still with us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I have reached out to you, but crickets mate!!!!!!!  will send PM

THIGV wrote:

Perhaps the term Việt Kiều is one that has similarly changed over time and become more universal..... My understanding of Vietnamese is of course filtered through my wife, but she seems to use the term Việt Kiều to apply to a range of people with different circumstances.

Precisely what I said above, it's the term used by Vietnamese nationals to call all Vietnamese who live abroad.  I should've added that the Vietnamese who live abroad in North America do not call themselves Việt Kiều, either formally or informally.  When a huge community of people routinely rejects the name being used to identify them, then that name is not accepted universally.

If you would ask your wife to pay attention to the term being used by all Vietnamese media abroad (newspapers, TV, music labels, shows...) plus civic groups and political groups in the US and Canada, she'll see that not one of them uses the term Việt Kiều.

Ciambella wrote:

tyel wrote:

So I'd better change the thread title to

Overseas Vietnamese (Người Việt Hải Ngoại) returning to Vietnam

to reduce confusion?

Very few members of this forum read Vietnamese, but including that translation would help many people to know the difference.  Yep, I'll say go for it.

Thank you, I was about to change the thread title but as OceanBeach92107 pointed out it wasn't technically possible to do so.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

tyel wrote:

So I'd better change the thread title to

Overseas Vietnamese (Người Việt Hải Ngoại) returning to Vietnam

to reduce confusion?

Very few members of this forum read Vietnamese, but including that translation would help many people to know the difference.  Yep, I'll say go for it.

I usually do this for other people, because by this time it's too late for her to change the title of the thread. But this time I'll let the two of you do it.

Figure out what you want the new title to be.

Go to the first post of this thread (the OP)

Click on the link to report the post.

In the pop-up screen, tell admin what you'd like to change the title to.

submit that as a report.

Admin reads those and if they want to they will change the name of this thread

That's neat. Great tip, thanks!

Wild_1 wrote:

Tyel,

Welcome to the forum. 

I grew up in California.  I even went to war (Desert Storm) for the USA.  But, I have been here, on and off, since 2009.  It's all possible, if you really want it.

I started a group similar to the one you mentioned a few years ago.  But, there were too many odd-balls, coming here for the wrong reasons.  So, I have been going it alone, with the locals, or other expats.

If you really want to come back here to learn about your roots, create something that your children can enjoy, or leave behind something that the young people here can look up to, feel free to look me up.

But, if your goal is to sell inflatable dolls, snake oils, or just hit the karaoke scene, please don't bother.  There are just ways too many things to see and do here...  I have no time for such.

Again, welcome to the forum.  I really hope you will be able to come back here and flourish.

Sincerely,
Howie

Howie, thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts. I'd love to hear more about the 'odd balls coming for the wrong reasons', if you are willing to share (in private messages if preferred)?

I am happy snake oil, dolls and karaoke are not really my speciality. My plan to return to Vietnam is for personal reasons in the first place. If I'd decide to do business I would rather look deeper into the sustainable pipeline, considering socio-political aspects too. But that's far away at the moment, first things first.

A few years back I traveled to Vietnam the first time after decades of living abroad. Since I was on a tourist visa with no contact to local friends (except to 2 relatives where my language barrier wasn't helpful)  I was trapped in the typical tourist path that did not feel right for me. I didn't visit any tourist attractions (except 1) and escaped all the party spots. Funny part is I can't tell you from scratch what I did instead. The weeks went by so quickly.

When I left Vietnam I knew I would need to come back with more time to reconnect with my past and understand some observations that I made. Happy to talk about it more via private message, if interested.

Take care and thanks for your inputs.

Tyel

Ciambella wrote:

THIGV wrote:

Perhaps the term Việt Kiều is one that has similarly changed over time and become more universal..... My understanding of Vietnamese is of course filtered through my wife, but she seems to use the term Việt Kiều to apply to a range of people with different circumstances.

Precisely what I said above, it's the term used by Vietnamese nationals to call all Vietnamese who live abroad.  I should've added that the Vietnamese who live abroad in North America do not call themselves Việt Kiều, either formally or informally.  When a huge community of people routinely rejects the name being used to identify them, then that name is not accepted universally.

If you would ask your wife to pay attention to the term being used by all Vietnamese media abroad (newspapers, TV, music labels, shows...) plus civic groups and political groups in the US and Canada, she'll see that not one of them uses the term Việt Kiều.

Sounds tricky, now I am confused what term to use.  8-) Do you know why Vietnamese in North America don't call themselves Việt Kiều? What do they call themselves instead?

tyel wrote:

Do you know why Vietnamese in North America don't call themselves Việt Kiều? What do they call themselves instead?

There are about 2.5 million Vietnamese in North America.  As they've lived almost all their lives in another country, swore allegiance to that country, perform civic duties as citizens of that country, they do not call themselves Việt Kiều (Vietnamese sojourners).  In English, they're identified as Vietnamese American and Vietnamese Canadian.  In Vietnamese, they're người Việt hải ngoại, which is the literal translation of Overseas Vietnamese  (overseas: hải ngoại).

Wiki:  " 'Việt Kiều' (literally translated to 'Vietnamese sojourner'), is used by people in Vietnam to refer to ethnic Vietnamese living outside of the country.  However, many Overseas Vietnamese use the term Người Việt hải ngoại (literally translated to Overseas Vietnamese),  The alternate label being used within Vietnam is 'Người Việt Nam ở nước ngoài' (ethnic Vietnamese who live in foreign countries).

Wiki Vietnamese:  "Originally, Viet Kieu means Vietnamese nationals living in countries outside of Vietnam, not citizens of other countries of Vietnamese origin. However, today Viet Kieu is a term that Vietnamese people living in Vietnam use to refer to all Vietnamese living abroad, but not a term that Vietnamese people living abroad refer to themselves."

Talawas.org:  "Việt Kiều is the term that most overseas Vietnamese dislike. It's often delivered with the same resentment and connotation as ngụy (puppets), a term imposed on South Vietnamese soldiers, government workers, and business owners. Many overseas Vietnamese who have returned to their home country to live are still being called Việt Kiều. The Vietnamese government has been aware of this mentality, thus the media have switched to using the term 'người Việt ở hải ngoại' or 'người Việt ở nước ngoài'."

Short answer to your question: người Việt hải ngoại is the correct term to use.

Ciambella wrote:

tyel wrote:

Do you know why Vietnamese in North America don't call themselves Việt Kiều? What do they call themselves instead?

There are about 2.5 million Vietnamese in North America.  As they've lived almost all their lives in another country, swore allegiance to that country, perform civic duties as citizens of that country, they do not call themselves Việt Kiều (Vietnamese sojourners).  In English, they're identified as Vietnamese American and Vietnamese Canadian.  In Vietnamese, they're người Việt hải ngoại, which is the literal translation of Overseas Vietnamese  (overseas: hải ngoại).

Wiki:  " 'Việt Kiều' (literally translated to 'Vietnamese sojourner'), is used by people in Vietnam to refer to ethnic Vietnamese living outside of the country.  However, many Overseas Vietnamese use the term Người Việt hải ngoại (literally translated to Overseas Vietnamese),  The alternate label being used within Vietnam is 'Người Việt Nam ở nước ngoài' (ethnic Vietnamese who live in foreign countries).

Wiki Vietnamese:  "Originally, Viet Kieu means Vietnamese nationals living in countries outside of Vietnam, not citizens of other countries of Vietnamese origin. However, today Viet Kieu is a term that Vietnamese people living in Vietnam use to refer to all Vietnamese living abroad, but not a term that Vietnamese people living abroad refer to themselves."

Talawas.org:  "Việt Kiều is the term that most overseas Vietnamese dislike. It's often delivered with the same resentment and connotation as ngụy (puppets), a term imposed on South Vietnamese soldiers, government workers, and business owners. Many overseas Vietnamese who have returned to their home country to live are still being called Việt Kiều. The Vietnamese government has been aware of this mentality, thus the media have switched to using the term 'người Việt ở hải ngoại' or 'người Việt ở nước ngoài'."

Short answer to your question: người Việt hải ngoại is the correct term to use.

Merci beaucoup.

I am a bit out of context here, but I would also like to know about any overseas Vietnamese (or whatever term is correct now) groups on facebook or other sites as I would very much like to get in contact with the former/ present owner of a property in Nha Trang. 93 Tran Quy Cap.

I know many old Vietkieu have these kind of disputes and I'm sure he would be happy to hear from me, and I him. He bitterly disputes the present occupiers. Sadly all I know is that he's American -Vietnamese.

Otherwise is there a land registry or somewhere I could find contact details of the former/(current pre'78) owner? People's committee?

I have no interest in the property or any property here: it is pertinent  to an upcoming custody case.

It would greatly benefit my daughter, me and him.

Thanks to Admin for changing the title of the thread

MollyVienMackay wrote:

I am a bit out of context here, but I would also like to know about any overseas Vietnamese (or whatever term is correct now) groups on facebook or other sites as I would very much like to get in contact with the former/ present owner of a property in Nha Trang. 93 Tran Quy Cap.

I know many old Vietkieu have these kind of disputes and I'm sure he would be happy to hear from me, and I him. He bitterly disputes the present occupiers. Sadly all I know is that he's American -Vietnamese.

Otherwise is there a land registry or somewhere I could find contact details of the former/(current pre'78) owner? People's committee?

I have no interest in the property or any property here: it is pertinent  to an upcoming custody case.

It would greatly benefit my daughter, me and him.

Molly, with respect to your privacy and whatever intention you may have to find an old owner of a property. If it is to sue someone who did harm or any other atrocities to you and your daughter personally, I hope you will find your justice. But if you mainly wanna go back to connect with other Viet Kieus in order to reclaim land or property, let me explain to you what the intention of this thread is (Sorry that I have failed to mention my purpose initially, I did not have it on my plate that many Viet Kieus are returning to Vietnam because of that, so thanks for pointing me to that direction):

• The Vietnam war has left a lot of wounds, for those ones who had to flee and those who didn't want to or couldn't flee. We can't change the past and the actings of our parents or grandparents, but we can try to live with the present and find solutions where we leave the past behind to find peace and move on.
• The hate between North and South Vietnamese is still deeply rooted in so many minds which is sad but somehow understandable. However, the grief and the burden that we carry and transmit from generation to generation doesn't help us or anyone. So everyone of us can decide individually, if it is worth it to live with this anger for the rest of our lives or to find ways to let it go. I hope by connecting with other Vietnamese overseas (North and South Vietnamese) we follow the same or similar intention to start broader discussions about this instead of hiding in silence and mourn. The silence that many of us experienced all our lives prevents us all from processing our past and overcome our history.
• I hope to connect with other Vietnamese overseas that do not come back to exploit the country by using cheap labor, making quick money and brag to live in luxury or buying land and properties while evicting poor families out of their homes. I want to connect with mindful Vietnamese overseas who are humble and try to find solutions how we can all contribute to a country that we or our parents left in the past.

So to conclude: Your intention surely has it's own legitimacy and I understand it without knowing more about your history. I saw that you already started a thread about your case, maybe that thread is better to find other Vietnamese overseas with the same intention? I hope you will find a network that follows the same path as you. I also hope you understand that I have to chime in here before this thread is going to be co-opted by another direction.

All the best,
Tyel

tyel wrote:

• The Vietnam war has left a lot of wounds...

FYI, "Vietnam War" is a term coined and used by foreigners.

I'm a U.S. Army veteran of military combat experience in Vietnam, and I used that term for decades.

I've learned to refer to "The American War" (or "The War") when in conversations with Vietnamese citizens where the subject comes up.

I've also learned to avoid those conversations whenever possible.

If I'm posting about The War on social media, I may refer to "The American War in Vietnam".

Also, Admin on this site frowns on discussions about The War due to host nation sensitivity.

So in this public thread, you will likely find your ability to process thoughts and feelings about The War to be limited or outright deleted.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Also, Admin on this site frowns on discussions about The War due to host nation sensitivity.

So in this public thread, you will likely find your ability to process thoughts and feelings about The War to be limited or outright deleted.

I for one, thought that tyel's thoughts on the situation, despite the use of the term "Vietnam War", seem exceptionally sensitive to the situation. 

I think you may be overthinking Vietnamese sensitivity to the term.  My wife whose father was a VC soldier sometimes reminds me  of this when she says "but we won," always with a smile on her face when she says it.

THIGV wrote:

I for one, thought that tyel's thoughts on the situation, despite the use of the term "Vietnam War", seem exceptionally sensitive to the situation. 

I think you may be overthinking Vietnamese sensitivity to the term.

I agree that Tyel's last post was outstanding, worth a recommendation. 

And yes, OB is much more sensitive about The War than most Vietnamese. 

@Tyel -- In Saigon, you can call The War by any name and no one would blink.

To speak of the pre '75 regime, even the government owned media call it Chính Thể Cộng Hòa (the Republic) instead of the offensive "ngụy" (puppets) as they used to do. 

To speak of April 30, there are Vietnamese nationals who routinely use the term Ngày Mất Nước (The Day We Lost the Country) instead of the official term Ngày Giải Phóng (Liberation Day). 

History has proven over and over that Saigon has never been a city easy to be conformed, thus the rights to freedom of thought and expression are still not being completely restricted there.

I am glad to see the recent changes (name calling) on your post, and Tyel, that was excellently written. I am the boat people generation. I found my peace long time ago, after listening to my Southern friends were bitter of their lost of American civil war which was happened 150 years ago.
I wondered when my homeland can be healed. It must start from each of us.
Planning to come home to see the new land, when I left it was one of the 10 poorest country in the world.

I have a lot of Vietnamese friends in Hanoi and I've spent a significant amount of time there since I've been in Vietnam this second time.

In fact, I flew in there first on purpose because I wanted to learn about their perspective on historical events.

In a way, I guess you could say I'm a bit of an apologist for their point of view, keeping in mind that one can be an apologist without necessarily being an adherent.

Since most of the opinions that are strongly  expressed here are either from foreigners or from those sympathetic with the anti-communists of the south, I'll probably continue to share their viewpoint from time to time, especially concerning The American War in Vietnam.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

I have a lot of Vietnamese friends in Hanoi and I've spent a significant amount of time there since I've been in Vietnam this second time.

In fact, I flew in there first on purpose because I wanted to learn about their perspective on historical events.

In a way, I guess you could say I'm a bit of an apologist for their point of view, keeping in mind that one can be an apologist without necessarily being an adherent.

Since most of the opinions that are strongly  expressed here are either from foreigners or from those sympathetic with the anti-communists of the south, I'll probably continue to share their viewpoint from time to time, especially concerning The American War in Vietnam.

You do realise that only about 10% of people in Vietnam are card carrying communists. Just proves that it's not overly popular. Polls done in 2015 show that Capitalism is liked by around 90% of people interviewed, much higher than the USA.

colinoscapee wrote:

You do realise that only about 10% of people in Vietnam are card carrying communists. Just proves that it's not overly popular. Polls done in 2015 show that Capitalism is liked by around 90% of people interviewed, much higher than the USA.

I would estimate that at least half of that 10% are only party members for purposes of civil service employment and job advancement.  It was before I met him but I understand that when one of my brothers-in-law quit his government job to start his own coconut trading business, he quit the Party at the same time.  Teachers do not have to be members but it they want to become principals they had better hurry up and join.  Hanoi may be a little different than the south, but even there I expect the fervor will diminish with time.

Correct, to hold any position of power you must be a member of the comrade brigade.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

tyel wrote:

• The Vietnam war has left a lot of wounds...

FYI, "Vietnam War" is a term coined and used by foreigners.

I'm a U.S. Army veteran of military combat experience in Vietnam, and I used that term for decades.

I've learned to refer to "The American War" (or "The War") when in conversations with Vietnamese citizens where the subject comes up.

I've also learned to avoid those conversations whenever possible.

If I'm posting about The War on social media, I may refer to "The American War in Vietnam".

Also, Admin on this site frowns on discussions about The War due to host nation sensitivity.

So in this public thread, you will likely find your ability to process thoughts and feelings about The War to be limited or outright deleted.

I never call it "war" if I ever discus it which is rarely I say "Vietnam Bang Bang America" & dont even go down the rout of trying to go into the details about the countries involved.

I'm sorry for this. The American war was over long before I was born. I'm not in anyway Vietnamese. I'm an average white guy.

A lawyer told me it would be greatly beneficial to my upcoming custody case if I could contact the former/ present owner of that property. It then makes any claims they have to be able to provide a stable, safe residence for my daughter doubtful. It had never even occurred to me that of all the things right and wrong, that that should be an avenue to exploit. That's why we have lawyers, I guess.

I know he deliberately rented out the shop below as a bird shop as it is the most stinky, dirty disgusting business and he hoped it would force them to move out. They didn't. There is no love lost there. Conveniently being an American-Vietnamese, I presume he is bi-lingual. He also knows the family for a long time and I strongly suspect would be more than happy to give damning statements about their history, honesty and character. It couldn't hurt to have his ownership mentioned in court again.

There's nothing nice about what I am doing, but there's nothing nice about seeing you daughter's life ruined so the mother's family can extort my family either.

MollyVienMackay wrote:

I'm sorry for this. The American war was over long before I was born. I'm not in anyway Vietnamese. I'm an average white guy.

A lawyer told me it would be greatly beneficial to my upcoming custody case if I could contact the former/ present owner of that property. It then makes any claims they have to be able to provide a stable, safe residence for my daughter doubtful. It had never even occurred to me that of all the things right and wrong, that that should be an avenue to exploit. That's why we have lawyers, I guess.

I know he deliberately rented out the shop below as a bird shop as it is the most stinky, dirty disgusting business and he hoped it would force them to move out. They didn't. There is no love lost there. Conveniently being an American-Vietnamese, I presume he is bi-lingual. He also knows the family for a long time and I strongly suspect would be more than happy to give damning statements about their history, honesty and character. It couldn't hurt to have his ownership mentioned in court again.

There's nothing nice about what I am doing, but there's nothing nice about seeing you daughter's life ruined so the mother's family can extort my family either.

I'm confused. 

colinoscapee wrote:

I'm confused. 

So am I.  As most of you know, I am generally in favor of letting a thread take us wherever it or we want to go.  Somehow though, I really think that this problem of MollyVienMackay really does deserve its own thread.   Also It seems we are only getting part of the picture and that the story may be too complex (and private) to be delivered in a few hundred words.  Perhaps this is one where matters can't be resolved here and which truly needs professional legal advice.

Honestly, it's so hard to explain even the simplest things on-line. It's just text.

If I can get in contact with the Overseas Vietnamese/ Vietkieu guy who still owns the building, but my ex's family bought and now live in. Then I can dispute any claim they have to be able to provide a stable, secure home for my daughter. It will help me win the custody case.

It's not really rocket science. this is what the lawyer told me to do.

Anyhow, if anyone knows a facebook or other group where I may be able to get in contact with him, or how to find contact details of old VietKieu property owner's etc; then I would love to know.

Or any advice about how you can get the contact details of Vietnamese-Americans from local government/ property registration, people's committee?

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

tyel wrote:

• The Vietnam war has left a lot of wounds...

FYI, "Vietnam War" is a term coined and used by foreigners.

I'm a U.S. Army veteran of military combat experience in Vietnam, and I used that term for decades.

I've learned to refer to "The American War" (or "The War") when in conversations with Vietnamese citizens where the subject comes up.

I've also learned to avoid those conversations whenever possible.

If I'm posting about The War on social media, I may refer to "The American War in Vietnam".

@OceanBeach92107

Thank you for putting a hint on the terminology for 'The Vietnam War' vs 'The War' or 'The American War in Vietnam'. You are right, as I have just started learning to read and write Vietnamese since recently of course most articles that I had been reading so far were shaped from a western perspective (or those ones who were in between), mainly from the US.

BUT: Framing it as 'The American War' also doesn't sound proper to me as America is also South-America, I think 'The US War in Vietnam' makes more sense. As there had also been wars against Vietnam before the US war using only 'The War' but refering to the one during the cold war seems incomplete, or? It's getting tricky here in finding the 'correct' term, of course depending on the context and the person who is refering this topic to.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Also, Admin on this site frowns on discussions about The War due to host nation sensitivity.

So in this public thread, you will likely find your ability to process thoughts and feelings about The War to be limited or outright deleted.

Wait, we can talk about the weather, eating ice cream or picking flowers here but not about politics to process our past? 

Ciambella wrote:

I agree that Tyel's last post was outstanding, worth a recommendation.

Thank you.

Ciambella wrote:

And yes, OB is much more sensitive about The War than most Vietnamese.

What does OB mean?

Ciambella wrote:

@Tyel -- In Saigon, you can call The War by any name and no one would blink.

So what you are saying is in Saigon people are less sensitive about how to call it? Do you know why? I have the feeling that Saigon is very western culture oriented, is that true or was it just my perception?

Ciambella wrote:

To speak of the pre '75 regime, even the government owned media call it Chính Thể Cộng Hòa (the Republic) instead of the offensive "ngụy" (puppets) as they used to do. 

To speak of April 30, there are Vietnamese nationals who routinely use the term Ngày Mất Nước (The Day We Lost the Country) instead of the official term Ngày Giải Phóng (Liberation Day). 

History has proven over and over that Saigon has never been a city easy to be conformed, thus the rights to freedom of thought and expression are still not being completely restricted there.

Noted, thanks for your input.

Rollingbroak wrote:

I am glad to see the recent changes (name calling) on your post, and Tyel, that was excellently written. I am the boat people generation. I found my peace long time ago, after listening to my Southern friends were bitter of their lost of American civil war which was happened 150 years ago.
I wondered when my homeland can be healed. It must start from each of us.
Planning to come home to see the new land, when I left it was one of the 10 poorest country in the world.

Nice to meet you.

Yes, I am wondering too how Vietnam can ever heal if economy is more important than politics as they both are intertwined. But I get it, we may can't have both at the moment, it may take the whole country minimum 30 years more to process, acknowledge and then to move on?

By the way, what are the '150 years ago' you mentioned?

tyel wrote:

By the way, what are the '150 years ago' you mentioned?

Ah, sorry, now I get it. You are refering to the US Southern friends and the American Civic War, first I thought you meant your Southern Vietnamese friends.

Actually from a purely structural perspective it was a civil war between the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North) and the Republic of Vietnam (South) which was waged from 1955 to 1975.  Of course the overwhelming US presence, from 1965 when the first US Marines arrived in Da Nang, to 1973 when most US combat units were withdrawn, made it look otherwise for a while.

tyel wrote:

What does OB mean?

It's the abbreviation for OceanBeach92107. 

tyel wrote:

So what you are saying is in Saigon people are less sensitive about how to call it?

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

tyel wrote:

Do you know why? I have the feeling that Saigon is very western culture oriented, is that true or was it just my perception?

For almost 400 years, Saigon has been a land of homesteaders and immigrants (Saigon became part of VN either in the middle or at the end of the 17th century; I can't remember the exact year as my brain is a bit mushy at the moment). 

There were times during the first half of those four centuries when barely a local government existed to rule the land, thus the people created their own systems of customs and traditions under which their new lives and society were established.  Since they were all newcomers, everything and everyone was welcomed.  The native Khmer people, the French conquerors in 19th century, the Chinese immigrants, the relocated North Vietnamese in 1954, the Americans in the '60s, they came, they influenced, and Saigon absorbed.  The easy acceptance attitude has its flaw: Saigon is not overly sensitive about anything including its own history.  (Admittedly, Saigon is amongst the newest acquired land so there's not much history there to preserve.)

Yes, Saigon is very western culture oriented.  However, its younger generation is absolutely crazy about Korean beauty standards, and the new parents are following Japanese parenting method to a tee.  It was a hodgepodge of a land 400 years ago and it's still a hodgepodge of a land today.