The Ugly Truth / The Upcoming Retirement Crisis

manwonder wrote:

This article makes a lot of sense now & am glad I left the rat race early/"retired" more like "gave up" when I was 55 (2019) 

I sometimes am very grateful (thank my lucky stars) that I left.
What are your own thoughts and do you see any similarities in your retirement plans?

Cheers

Not quite the same for me, I lived in places that had terrible winters for most of my life, Buffalo NY, Chicago Illinois and Pittsburgh PA.

A movie change my life forever, Seabiscuit. Story line, a child given away during the depression became the Jockey, a horse that was abused and was headed to the glue factory, an owner whose car dealership went bankrupt and a trainer that was an recovering alcoholic that nobody would hire.

This bunch of misfortunates came together to have the greatest racehorse of the time.

Seabiscuit beat War Admiral, a triple crown winner, horse of the year and son of  Man O War in a match race.
___________________________________________________________________________________________

(Well I was 61 and you could take early reduced SS at 62.)

Seabiscuit's team were all sitting together outside of Seabiscuit's stall and one of them said Follow your dreams.

And I thought about that, I've always vacationed in Las Vegas, I decided to follow my dreams. After my first SS deposit was received, I walked into my bosses office and told him I was leaving. He asked if I had another job, I replied no. I told him I was moving to Las Vegas and he asked If I had a job there, I said no, he asked me if I had a place to stay and I said no, he asked me if I knew anyone in Vegas and I said no.

He then looked at me and said: "I wish I was you".

I gave away lots of my stuff and threw the rest away, The important things I stuffed into my car and 3 1/2 days later I was in Vegas. A little less than three years later I met and married my wife. Eleven years later we moved to the Philippines.

So like Manwonder and me, follow your dreams, remember more sand is in the bottom of the hourglass than in the top, your time is running out. Lot's of people wait till it's too late or in poor health..

I agree 100%. FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS! I was laid off at 60. Their excuse was COVID-19. The reality was Boeing was bleeding cash every day due to BAD decisions from senior executives who were trained as accountants, trying to make decisions affecting an engineering organization. They were CLUELESS and Boeing is still paying for their poor decision-making skills.

My wife and I sold our house in Washington State, sold her car, paid my car off. As a result, we no longer have any rent or mortgage expenses. No car payments, and no car insurance or gas for commuting to work or running errands. We cut our expenses by over $2,400 a month.

Then we visited our daughter and son in San Antonio, TX to spend some time with them and the grandkids. Then just before Christmas, I was checking on travel restrictions to the Philippines and found they had been lifted for For Filipinos living overseas. I also found out that foreigners married to Philippinos could travel together as long as you showed a marriage license or certificate. Two days later we met all the requirements for travel from the U.S. to the Philippines. We were released from quarantine on Christmas afternoon. Best Christmas gift I EVER got!

Just yesterday I found out that the restriction on the PRA not accepting SRRV visa applications was lifted as of April 30th. Life is GREAT! FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS!

manwonder wrote:

Many things that we take for granted (like my pension payout plan that starts when I reach 65) are in for a rude awakening in the coming years....I did feel it in my bones back in 2013...

Yes.  I predicted allready around 1994 "western" economies are "doomed" if telling it a a headline word, although I mean the "western" COUNTRIES cant go on living of producing SERVICES for OWN citizens and having negative trading ballance for PRODUCTS.  By internet have many services moved abroad too since then...   Since then it had started showing by USA credit classification have got lowered.   Sweden have screwed up much too e g recenty agreed to pay for mess SPAIN have made!!! 
Now the "western" economies SEEM good by the crazy overvalued stock markets pushed up by countries "print money" and BORROW to try to stimulate their economy. 

So COUNTRIES cant in the long run while COMPANIES can - and even have to - have ttheir productions abroad because if many types dont they will go bankruptcy by other companies hold their costs dpwn so tthey can sell cheaper.   
E g Swedish Electrolux say in their adds DESIGNED in Sweden - althouh their products are MADE in low cost countries...   

EARLIER back when I made that prediction, I thought "western" economies will go down and the low salariy countries will  go up UNTIL the gap is much smaller and then would the "western" companies take home the productions they moved to low saöary countries,
BUT now I have started thinking - Why would they . when they have much GROWING markets in e g SE Asia...

Swedish governments have snatched a lot of money from retirement systems allready   
1. Direct from start they made a "chain letter" system favorin much the genratiin which decied it, where older than me got FULL retirement pay inspite of they hadnt contributed anything or less to the raised retirement pay part!!!  (ATP)

Later they have:
2. SKIPED counting most of the contributing years!!!   (Worst for my generation.)
3. RAISED retirement age. (I had luck and was the last birth year geting the old deal.)
4. They give SAME retirement pay as I get to  PARENTS to immigrants inspiteof they have never worked in Sweden!!!
5.  Its even worse than that.  If I move outside European Union I will get much LOWERED retirement pay!!! inspite of I will STOP using the high subsidities Sweden have at health care and some other things...     So its kind of double losing . I believe Canada have some similar demanding citizenbs  to stay at least six months per year in Canada to not lose benifits. 

So I better hurry to move to Phils and start earning at business there before Sweden get out of money 

I stopped working when I was 55, rather than taking an expatriate assignment in Nigeria and never regretted the decision.

Used to pleasant temperatures I moved to The Philippines for climate reasons rather than COL or taxation.

emvaningen ~

Smart move, Nigeria can be a very dangerous place.

carlisom78,
You da man! You made the move to the Philippines in less than a year!
I am in the impression inflation is necessary in order for country's economic growth. I am not sure how that is.
Although I save as much as I am allowed in 401k (over 55 has catch up allowance) and invest those in mutual fund, I feel the pension I am saving is not growing as fast as the inflation and I cannot rely on SS pension since I am planning an early retirement.

Jackson4 wrote:

I am in the impression inflation is necessary in order for country's economic growth. I am not sure how that is..

Well. It can be dicussed if necesary, but sure the common.

Jackson4 wrote:

Although I save as much as I am allowed in 401k (over 55 has catch up allowance) and invest those in mutual fund, I feel the pension I am saving is not growing as fast as the inflation and I cannot rely on SS pension since I am planning an early retirement.

"Western" stock markets are much overvalued.  Its crazy index have gone up much during covid!!!  (Partly depending of covid have made more people having time to trade at daytime and stimulus chacks have made US stock market oone up extra crazy much.) They were overvalued before covid too in my oppinion. 

((Because of that I have stayed out of "western" stock markets many years after earning rather much back when they werent overvalued.  Now Im in process of buying 2 - 4 businesses in Philippines instead. Left to see if Im idiot or genious         I see it a litle bit as lottery tickets, but with much better odds than lotery tickets       (instead of lotteries 50 percemt LOSS of capital in average,  this have good chance to GAIN 5 times the capital in around 5 years  (depening of what covid will make with prices and amounts sold.))

OK dreamers, tell me how are you going to come to Philippines if there is a limited number (1500 per day) of passengers permitted to enter the country?
The world economy is already DEAD IN THE COFFIN, the only thing left is the funeral and I am not going to participate because it won't be pretty.
Once the funeral is over, there won't be any money left to pay the funeral services.
Pensions?
Well... if you think you can live on P35k per month (or less), then you won't be disappointed. That is the amount I see we'll be getting through Universal Basic Income.
Freedom to travel... yes, for as long as it's not further than than your local supermarket.
Inflation... have your wheel barrow ready instead of your wallet.
Real estate... how low is too low?
A two million dollar house in 2021, put on sale in 2024, asking price 50k dollars, sold for 30. Outrageous, isn't? Not at all in a bankrupt economy.
If you see the light, it's because it's a locomotive coming. If you don't, better wake up and smell the coffee.

I see the peso is strong against the dollar but I cannot see why that is. No tourism, less purchasing power, price increase, less jobs, etc. The only light in the tunnel is the train coming at you. With my basic understanding about economics (i.e. nil), I am guessing the peso will sink at least in the short term. I am thinking retirees from more affluent countries will be in a better position.

PalawanBob wrote:

OK dreamers, tell me how are you going to come to Philippines if there is a limited number (1500 per day) of passengers permitted to enter the country?
The world economy is already DEAD IN THE COFFIN, the only thing left is the funeral and I am not going to participate because it won't be pretty.
Once the funeral is over, there won't be any money left to pay the funeral services.
Pensions?
Well... if you think you can live on P35k per month (or less), then you won't be disappointed. That is the amount I see we'll be getting through Universal Basic Income.
Freedom to travel... yes, for as long as it's not further than than your local supermarket.
Inflation... have your wheel barrow ready instead of your wallet.
Real estate... how low is too low?
A two million dollar house in 2021, put on sale in 2024, asking price 50k dollars, sold for 30. Outrageous, isn't? Not at all in a bankrupt economy.
If you see the light, it's because it's a locomotive coming. If you don't, better wake up and smell the coffee.

So its like saying you are still be given a 3yr headstart/grace period to clear your 'baggage' and make that move here with your 'small fortune' + the upcoming UBI : that still might get you your big fish in small pond sensation.
(Just pre-book/reserve your flights in.)

I have no idea what causes the foreign currency exchange rate to fluctuate between the Philippine peso and the U.S. dollar. I've heard that it may go to 52:1 but I see the opposite happening. Does anybody here have a clear understanding of how this works?

FortuneFavorsTheBold wrote:

I have no idea what causes the foreign currency exchange rate to fluctuate between the Philippine peso and the U.S. dollar. I've heard that it may go to 52:1 but I see the opposite happening. Does anybody here have a clear understanding of how this works?

The value of exchange is determined by the banks and currency traders on Forex (Foreign Exchange Market) Close to 7 Trillion Dollars is traded daily online. Considering the whole world GDP in 2020 was close to 85 Trillion Dollars, doesn't that make you secure?

Some day trader in their basement or maybe in Nigeria is trading currency swindled from some hapless senior. Or maybe some Lady on Philippine Cupid is day trading the money some sucker is sending her.

That's how the rate is determined

FortuneFavorsTheBold wrote:

I have no idea what causes the foreign currency exchange rate to fluctuate between the Philippine peso and the U.S. dollar. I've heard that it may go to 52:1 but I see the opposite happening. Does anybody here have a clear understanding of how this works?

Currency markets are like most markets - based on supply and demand. If US economy (GDP, employment, etc)  is doing well, generally the demand for dollars and dollar-based investments increases, and then the US Dollar will rise, relative to other currencies.

For some reason, either the PHP is doing better in relative terms, or the US Dollar is doing worse - hence the shrinking value of the USD to PHP. A dollar buys fewer pesos than a couple of years ago, as we all know.I remember a  couple years ago it was close to or even briefly at 54, now 47 or so. Of course when I came over in 2014 it was 44-45.

It probably has something to do with all the money being printed for the past few years by the Fed, in order to continue "quantitative easing" - great for the stock market but a bad sign for the future. How exactly do they expect to pay  all this debt off? Some economist just look at it relative to GDP but what if GDP falls, lol.

FortuneFavorsTheBold wrote:

I have no idea what causes the foreign currency exchange rate

Most traders nowadays are idiots, who dont think.  They use "systems"which all are basicly TA, which DONT VALUE things what to buy, these "systems" ONLY check what other mainly idiots pay, using basicly same system, so it become selfffullfilling as  long as the idiots have money enough to continue the madness...
Examples:
/Nasdaq index has gone up much during a period when correct would have beem going down, being OVERVALUED even before covid.  (I lost interest for "western" stock markets years ago, because of the overvaluing. I prefer to buy things for less than they are worth      
/Bitcoin.  The best example of madness.  I have told in years its crazy overvalued. Finaly it seem the "market" have sSTARTED undertanding that by it has dropped fast from 60 000 usd to 37 000. But the REAL value is only 2 - 3 usd...

A part of the explaination of Nasdaq  crazy reaction at covid are more people started being at home at daytime by working from home or being layed off  so they got time to trade, and stimulus checks can have been used for trading, which added many traders, who dont know what they are doing.

Recently - compared to how long time back I started telling it    - even guys as Warren Buffet have started talking about overvalued markets...

PalawanBob wrote:

Real estate... how low is too low?
A two million dollar house in 2021, put on sale in 2024, asking price 50k dollars, sold for 30. Outrageous, isn't? Not at all in a bankrupt economy.

Thats why Im BUYING real estates now  but I buy PRODUCING real estates.   
I thought average market price had dropped in Phils of such products because of covid. It did a while but in later parts of 2020 statistic show it had gone UP to higher than before covid.  Even more up in USA and Sweden.
((Now eveyone have got clues and can guess, but I will not tell what     because I dont want to get competition at least not before I have bought all I want - which can be never  - by the plan is to use earnings to go on buying such as long as the price is interesting .))

PalawanBob wrote:

if you think you can live on P35k per month (or less), then you won't be disappointed..

It depend of costs for future health -and what costs will be added for foreigners        As now if the house is paid and rural , its no problem for me. Food costs can be redused much if being rural. I have halfed my food costs during warn season in Sweden by just foraging things growing WILD - and in Phils its warm year around 
And labour is cheap in Phils so such can be hired to grow parts of your own food to reduce food costs

coach53 wrote:

Food costs can be redused much if being rural. I have halfed my food costs during warn season in Sweden by just foraging things growing WILD - and in Phils its warm year around

A suggestion for saving the other half of your food costs, try Road Kill or make your own Pagpag.

Thank you everybody. Bitcoin and the stock markets are complete mysteries to me since my knowledge about them would fit on the head of a pin.

FortuneFavorsTheBold wrote:

Thank you everybody. Bitcoin and the stock markets are complete mysteries to me since my knowledge about them would fit on the head of a pin.

The dynamics of Bitcoin is sometimes compared with the tulip-mania of the 1630s in the Netherlands, perhaps the most famous bubble in history. ... That bubble intensified & finally burst in Feb1637....so likewise we still have some time... (3yrs max) to go...so do pre book yr flights here in the quest for your freeedddooom!

Enzyte Bob wrote:

coach53 wrote:

Food costs can be redused much if being rural. I have halfed my food costs during warn season in Sweden by just foraging things growing WILD - and in Phils its warm year around

A suggestion for saving the other half of your food costs, try Road Kill or make your own Pagpag.

Pagpag is mainly for v.poor city dwellers (who can't fish)...No such problem for the fisherfolk in the provinces as they have lots of preserved salted fish as well as their own land for growing fresh vegetables/fruits that are easily bartered.

Coach 53, you are a hopeless dreamer.
Better find out why Sweden has 65000 fallout shelters and then start looking how to get in there in case SHTF.

PalawanBob wrote:

Coach 53, you are a hopeless dreamer.
Better find out why Sweden has 65000 fallout shelters and then start looking how to get in there in case SHTF.

They can grow a lot of Mushrooms in those 65K shelters waiting for the Mother of All Bombs.

The reason the peso is strong against the US Dollar is due to the U.S. government adding $6 TRILLION to the national debt in the last 1 1/2 to 2 months. That kind of HISTORICALLY HIGH WASTE will result in high inflation for years to come. That was part of the reason the U.S. government did what it did. They knew they would never be able to repay the interest on all of the government bonds they needed to sell to finance their spending spree that would put a drunken sailor to shame. So you intentionally cause high inflation and pay the interest payments on your bonds with devalued dollars.

It's not the PHP that is strong. It's the US$ that is weak.. I'm now getting PHP 67-68 to the GBP. Not so long ago I was getting only PHP 62. GBP is not be strong against other currencies because of the continuing administrative mess after BREXIT.

carlisom78 wrote:

That was part of the reason the U.S. government did what it did. They knew they would never be able to repay the interest on all of the government bonds they needed to sell to finance their spending spree that would put a drunken sailor to shame. So you intentionally cause high inflation and pay the interest payments on your bonds with devalued dollars.

True

Causing higher interest rates. Then what happens?

In November 2020 the American consumer credit debt was 14.2 Trillion Dollars, an average of $92,727 per. Credit card debt almost 900 Billion Dollars. If interest rate goes up a couple points, millions of people will be maxed out and in default.

Higher interest rates will affect the housing market, prices will fall. Anyone who has a variable loan of any type may reach the point of being in default.

Remember too big to fail?

pnwcyclist wrote:

It probably has something to do with all the money being printed for the past few years by the Fed, in order to continue "quantitative easing" - great for the stock market but a bad sign for the future. How exactly do they expect to pay  all this debt off? l.

Yes.
USA credit rate has lowered...
Politicians have a tendence to leave problems to future generations...
(Example:  in Sweden where the generation before me decided a "chain letter system" where THEY get much higher SSS than they have contributed to it.  Later they noticed it will go "bankruptcy" with such countimg, then theydecided my generation is only allowed to count FITHTEEN years of them we have paid to the SSS system. Then they noticed thats not enough, so they RAISED the retirement age, which was comparinggly high allready before- 65, the raise starting in my generation, ...

pnwcyclist wrote:

Some economist just look at it relative to GDP but what if GDP falls, lol.

They arent economists, they are knuckleheads   

BassMan_720 wrote:

It's not the PHP that is strong. It's the US$ that is weak.. I'm now getting PHP 67-68 to the GBP. Not so long ago I was getting only PHP 62. GBP is not be strong against other currencies because of the continuing administrative mess, before BREXIT

Yes.   Before too . I started talking about a basic part of the problem for "western" ccountries  allready around  25 years ago...   
SE Asia has managed much better than North America and West Europe since then.
Swedish economy is WEAK, but Phils economy is WEAKER and US economy WEAKER now, which are shown at recent currency value change... 
But the long trend for both USA and Sweden currencies are MUCH DOWN compared to for instance Thai baht. E g USD down from 40 o 31 in 15 years and down from over 50 since when I predicted the future for  North America and West Europe.

Politicians try to hide their country s weak economy by borrow and borrow...

manwonder wrote:

The dynamics of Bitcoin is sometimes compared with the tulip-mania of the 1630s in the Netherlands, perhaps the most famous bubble in history. ... That bubble intensified & finally burst in Feb1637....!

Yes. That was crazy ALSO...   
And in between there have been some less big bubbles.  The "market" never learn...

A friend of mine is a profesional investor with his own money started with around 30 000 usd including loans. Now he is multimilliionaire  - inspite of he dont understand psychology      but he is very good at valuing eseparate companies. 
Back before western stock markets got overvalued  so I botheed to look for bargains myself too,  he phoned me excited and told me about a bargain he had found and had bought many shares in.
A WEEK later he phoned me:
-It hasnt gone up!!! People dont understand what a bargain it i!!! he said very disapointed.
-But if they would understand, then there wouldnt be any bargains for us      so its something to be HAPPY for...
A few months later the market understood and these shares went up much...

Even many profesional in companies FA invetors  dont understand how to value companies although they try to . (Thats what FA mean.)   Many such with high salaries more or lesss just  look at the resuilt line in the reports - or even worse value REVENUE high even when the result is crap        Its EASY to get high  revenue if sell to cheap so it become a loss...   

The bargains we found by ADJUST results for costs as research and exbantion costs,
OR by predict a company is done with research/developnent and will start earning much rather soon.
Plus check if companies has ASSETS as for instance real estate for much.
Some of the investor "Dragons" say they still count similar to how I do when valuning businesses:
"Scrap" value if the company ends.
Plus three times adjusted year result, historic or predictions depending of if its a "break through" company or not.

Sometimes I assisted the market to understand earlier by I publised my analasyses including explainaitions why. After I had bought all I wanted      Then a few understood and bought so the price went up a bit, and the rest understood when report showed it later, and them the price went up much.
(As e g one I bought from 6. although they were worth 18. After the report they rushed up to 16:60 where they halted so I  sold all and bouht something else.)

If its a company with shares at the market, then split with total amount of shares.  (This CANT be done in Philsstock market  by  amount of shares ARENT OFFICIAL and company leaders can decide to print many more shares without compensate the excisting share holders and without even telling them!!!      

Enzyte Bob wrote:

coach53 wrote:

Food costs can be redused much if being rural. I have halfed my food costs during warn season in Sweden by just foraging things growing WILD - and in Phils its warm year around

A suggestion for saving the other half of your food costs, try Road Kill or make your own Pagpag.

     
I could (almost) reach zero food cost during "harvest season" of wild growing food in Sweden if I would bother to spend more time firaging,  but I just go for them I like and are easy to find so I can forage fast. because I think of effectivity        Similar in my garden I just have berry bushes, which handle themselves (and some years I have bothered to sow things which are expensive to buy or rare in shops here. 

A while ago I looked at a documentary/reality about surviving with American small groups  droped with few equipments at similar spots at unpopulated parts of Palawan. (It looked as west Taytay.)
One group thrived by working both foraging and fishing
while an other group walked at the  beach only lookinng in the sand and said given up
-No food here...

(Most of the groups found some but to litle by most of them didnt work enough so they got tired by hunger by they didnt work enough...

PalawanBob wrote:

Coach 53, you are a hopeless dreamer.
Better find out why Sweden has 65000 fallout shelters and then start looking how to get in there in case SHTF.

WHAT??!! What have Sweden to do with my goals???    (Other than I expect to get less and less woirth SSS   

In OPPOSITE I have told Sweden is "western" country too,  which are"doomed" to get WORSE compared to SE Asian...

Thats why I m investing in the PHILIPPINES...   

(Years ago I first checked Thaiiand by better communications with Sweden and I prefer inland before coasts, but I changed my mind to the Philippines because Thailand have much more restrictions against foreigners both concerning VISA, real estate and business owning, while Phils allow foreigners to do rather much.)

carlisom78 wrote:

The reason the peso is strong against the US Dollar is due to the U.S. government adding $6 TRILLION to the national debt in the last 1 1/2 to 2 months.

That doesn't explain why the peso been climbing (vs the dollar) since Oct, 2018.  Relative to the PH peso, the US dollar has been dropping for the past 2 1/2 years.. not months.

Coach53, the 65k fallout shelters have everything to do about everybody's plans. Don't you think they were built for a GOOD reason?

I am stating that you are a dreamer because COVID19 is here to stay for another 4 years. I am not inventing anything, it's written in plan English in one of WEF documents. The document has 60 pages but the date (March 31, 2025), is on page 1. That is the date when Covid is expected to disappear. NOT SOONER...!!!!
Now, if you don't mind to be the Guinea pig, go ahead and get the jab.
That might give you the permission for limited travel but I have doubts about far away places.

Look at the MASSIVE spending that occurred late in the Obama administration and the Biden administration. Combined those two administrations raised the national debt that took 230+ years to accumulate at an alarming rate. That is why the US $ is now so much weaker. No one who understands real-world economics thinks that this will end well. But the economic theorists refuse to listen to historians and people who understand basic math.

When your debt (US) exceeds your annual GDP you are in an economic death spiral. US Debt is currently nearly 130% of the annual GDP. Meaning it WILL NEVER BE REPAID. There is NO PLAN TO EVER DO SO! The U.S, economy will resemble that of Greece soon. Almost certainly in the next 10 years.

As long as politicians remain ADDICTED to spending other people's money the U.S. economy can NOT recover fully.

Not sure about any 65k fallout shelters nor Mar 2025 (sounds scary allright like "2525 by Exordium & Terminus")  ....but heres what WEF has to said openly about the overall economic recovery process.

New analysis of economic resilience offers a potential *clue to which economies may be able to recover faster : "LGBT+ inclusion is correlated to the resilience of a country’s economy"

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/ … -recovery/

Philippines does have this distinctive lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ)  in society and does provide limited legal rights for them & they are generally tolerated (if not accepted) in filipino society which will hopefully hold her in good stead.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=zKQfxi8V5FA … ture=share


:

I just found out that ALPHA B1351 Variant (South Africa) and DELTA B16172 Variant (India) are the next viruses.
There you go...!!!!
More lock downs, more restrictions, more new vaccines...
Well dreamers... I am done!
I am going back to the jungle. It looks like all hell is about to break loose soon... (before X-mas?). There is an insane avalanche of bad news piling up like never seen before.
It's time to prepare the root crops for food.
I am reading that "the rats" are running out of cities and looking for safety in rural areas. This is NEVER SEEN BEFORE situation.
It's because the SHTF must be right in front of us... This is as serious as it can get.

So, basically you are saying that Polio shots, flu shots and small pox shots were all a waste of time and no one was helped; those diseases are still around but you don't hear about them because of heard immunity, because everyone got the shots.

So, basically you are saying that Polio shots, flu shots and small pox shots were all a waste of time and no one was helped; those diseases are still around but you don't hear about them because of heard immunity, because everyone got the shots.

carlisom78 wrote:

Look at the MASSIVE spending that occurred late in the Obama administration and the Biden administration. Combined those two administrations raised the national debt that took 230+ years to accumulate at an alarming rate. That is why the US $ is now so much weaker. No one who understands real-world economics thinks that this will end well. But the economic theorists refuse to listen to historians and people who understand basic math.

When your debt (US) exceeds your annual GDP you are in an economic death spiral. US Debt is currently nearly 130% of the annual GDP. Meaning it WILL NEVER BE REPAID. There is NO PLAN TO EVER DO SO! The U.S, economy will resemble that of Greece soon. Almost certainly in the next 10 years.

As long as politicians remain ADDICTED to spending other people's money the U.S. economy can NOT recover fully.

I agree. This growing debt is a problem. And by the way, we are still on Trump's budget until the end of Sept. It's called a Fiscal year. Biden has a PROPOSED budget for FY 2021-2022 but it's not approved yet.

But first, let's get our facts straight about who contributed the most to the debt.

Change in Debt to GDP ratio for the past 6 administrations:
Reagan - 31-55%  (24 pt INCR and largest percentage-wise)
G HW Bush - 51-64%  (13 pt INCR, in 4 years)
Clinton - 64 - 55%  REDUCED IT
GW Bush - 55-82%  (27 pt INCR)
Obama - 82 - 104%  (22 pt INCR)
Trump - 104 - 129%  (25 pt INCR, in only 4 years!!)

Looks like the winner in INCREASING the Debt to GDP ratio is our last president.

Aren't facts a wonderful thing?

Well. . . . When they kick the can down the road, I won't be around to witness it.

I guess Adam said the same thing to Eve.

This chase for a larger G.D.P growth doesn’t necessarily mean a rise in the overall human well-being - especially if it isn’t distributed equitably.
This all out pursuit alone can sometimes be counterproductive like what we see now the rise in inequality, mortality rates, and political polarization.
When the benefits of growth are mainly captured by the élites...
social disaster could be just around the corner....maybe theres no more road left for any further can kicking.

The GDP became irrelevant once it hit about 100%. From that point it's all down the hill. Discussing this subject is as pointless as who won the last elections. Actually, even a discussion about Covid is pointless.
If you dreamers don't see what's REALLY going-on, see the capital letters for REALLY...!!! then tough luck, all I can tell you is this:

When a person dies, it's a great tragedy, but when one million people die, it's statistics.
Joseph Stalin

PalawanBob wrote:

Coach53, the 65k fallout shelters have everything to do about everybody's plans. Don't you think they were built for a GOOD reason?

SO WHAT?!  The ONLY shelters in SWEDEN have to do with the Philippines is we Swedes being r aiming at the Philippines will get lowered retirement pay.

PalawanBob wrote:

I am stating that you are a dreamer because COVID19 is here to stay for another 4 years. I am not inventing anything, it's written in plan English in one of WEF documents. The document has 60 pages but the date (March 31, 2025), is on page 1. That is the date when Covid is expected to disappear. NOT SOONER...!!!!.

A half So what?   
I have a serious injury, which make I cant travel because of the INJURY, because it become to much worse by traveling.  Incompetend "specialits" told again I will not get the surgey I want.  I had got boored even BEFORE COVID by my injury had made I couldnt start my plans in Phils, and when I "wonn at lottery" (=I got a dept paid, which I expected to never get, but he got inheritance or something so he could pay me).  I decided to start one of my Phils plans anyway AT DISTANCE with these money. During fresh reseaching which bisinesses are for sale and to which price.  I had got this business idea before by I had seen several mistreated  businesses for sale cheap. Covid has ADDED such businesss for sale cheap.  When I started this refreshed compleeting research I thought price at such PRODUCTS had fall, but had gone UP some.  Then I decided to put in more money     than the "lottery winn" so we can buy more than one missteated business.  Depending of sizes but perhaps we can get three.  If it wouldnt have been Filipino "fast effectivity"     we would have had two months ago.   (See other topic about mess officials have made.)