Bus fare question

Hi tearnet,

the Scottish scheme sounds good but it just strengthens the points made here because the holder of the card either has to show the card to the driver,or with the Smart cards actually put them on the ticketing machine where the card is checked for validity and the driver just does a face check.

Sounds as if there is no way the driver can wave his 70 year old neighbour through without showing the card.

I agree with you that the number of non-residents is probably fairly small given that on average in any week there are about 20.000 tourists(non-residents) on the island. And we can speculate about how many of them are actually using the buses. So I don't understand why TM made all the problems with a system that is nearly impossible to implement without discrimination.

And thankfully there are Maltese who do care about the rights of EU citizens living in Malta as there are a few more issues involved:

http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/natio … extends-ad

Cheers
Ricky

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi … -4-.381484

"James Balfour, Fife, Scotland - My wife and I have just come back from our 10th vacation in Malta in the past three years but we feel that we have been ripped off for being tourists, all because of the new buses. In April this year a return from Sliema to Valletta would cost 94c and now it costs €2.50, but it only costs a Maltese person €1.50. If this is the way Malta is going to treat its tourists then I think it is going down a very slippery road. Just look at what happened to Greece and Spain and even neighbouring Italy. It would only take the tourists to stay away for one season and Malta would be in big trouble."

Says it all - the nuance that its discriminating in favour not of Maltese but residents is being lost, and its being perceived as a rip off the tourist - not only that, but its sanctioned by the Government !

Whether its justified under EU law or not, your average tourist will just see it as morally wrong, and no different to a tourist being charged € 2 for an ice-cream, whereas the Maltese customer only pays € 1.50, and advertised as such.

This is a poorly thought out scheme that will backfire on Malta.

I have to agree with you on this one for sure.....

For me personally, as long as I'm charged the right fare, I don't really care. (This is just how I feel about it myself, so please don't jump on me)

I have my ID card out ready anyway. If they happen to give someone else the cheaper fare without asking ID (purely because they look or speak Maltese) then it doesn't affect my life, so it doesn't bother me. It's hardly racism, its a bit ignorant and lazy but I think comparing it to Nazi Germany is very over the top.

The drivers SHOULD ask everyone for ID but the fact that they don't doesn't negatively impact my life. If anything, the only people actually suffering are Arriva because it means some people are being charged the cheaper fare just for looking/speaking Maltese when they might not actually be residents.

I can see that the issue has upset a lot of people, but I think it's just about priorities. I think there are more important things in life than worrying about whether someone else is asked for ID and the 'principle' behind it.

Well said iamharibo, I totaly agree.
As I said before its the lower subsidised fare that will go if the EU rule against Malta, then we will all be paying more. Will that make the tourists happy?
I somehow doubt it.

in that case why not charge tourists more for everything, so you can subsidise residents  ? 

Just think, if tourists paid 50% more in restaurants, then residents could get say a 10% discount.....of course, there may not be any tourists left

Arriva are not charging tourists more, the locals are getting subsidies paid from taxes, by the government.
Thats the whole point!

"Arriva are not charging tourists more, the locals are getting subsidies paid from taxes, by the government.Thats the whole point!" - logically you are correct (although tourists also pay taxes (like VAT) - however, this is about perception, and the perception is tourists are being ripped off.

georgeingozo wrote:

"Arriva are not charging tourists more, the locals are getting subsidies paid from taxes, by the government.Thats the whole point!" - logically you are correct (although tourists also pay taxes (like VAT) - however, this is about perception, and the perception is tourists are being ripped off.

agree totally

To remove this perception all you need to do is pay full fare each time you travel.
Once everyone does this the government can remove the subsidy and Arriva will be no worse off. Tourists will be happy as everone will be paying the same and my taxes will go down!
Sorted

There is a separate issue as to whether bus fares should be subsidised for anyone. Generally subsidies lead to waste, although in the case of buses there is an argument that the population in general benefits from a switch from cars to buses as it generally leads to less congestion and pollution. If the latter, it also makes sense to subsidise tourists. If the purpose of bus subsidies is to protect those on low incomes, its far better to help them though income support than through subsidies.

Either way, you either subsidise residents and tourists or neither.

I think we are getting a bit of topic !

The point is that whether you are in the Scottish Highlands or on Malta you have to show your legitimitation to a discount to participate in the cheaper rate.

And that is where the discrimination in Malta steps in !

It is not a matter whether it is convenient for the bus driver or the bus company or TM or anybody else.

Subsidies make sense and are good to get people of the road and into buses- not only locals but especially non-residents.

I'm in contact with local political parties over the issue so anybody interested in voicing their opinion should get in contact with me.

Otherwise , let's wait for the ruling of the EU commission on this issue.

Cheers
Ricky

ricky wrote:

legitimitation

you made that word up :-)

I guess I'm getting Maltese !

Was a difficult word to express my German influenced thoughts .

What is the correct expression ?

Checking google didn't help that much !

Cheers
Ricky

Legitimacy

if you think by making everyone pay the higher fare will reduce your taxes - you are dreaming..BIG TIME

the whole idea of having a public bus service is to provide that service for the "public" whether tourist or resident or non resident and to reduce the number of cars on our sadly heavily congested roads....this will serve nobody well...other than to put more cars on the roads quicker...but on the upside everyone will get to work on time! and in a reasonable time too!

tearnet wrote:

To remove this perception all you need to do is pay full fare each time you travel.
Once everyone does this the government can remove the subsidy and Arriva will be no worse off. Tourists will be happy as everone will be paying the same and my taxes will go down!
Sorted

so what is wrong then of making everyone pay the lower fare then - still everyone would be happy. Everyone paying the same price. More people would be using the buses less tourists and residents  using cars. The more people who use the bus service would inevitably have an impact on revenue stream and thus a lower requirement for subsidy - but then saying that arriva have a ten year contract (with subsidy) so it aint gonna be sorted quicker than that  - not without some costly negotiation of any reduction in subsidy.

This is an intriguing topic on many levels.

But for me the most interesting bit is the way drivers feel they can make judgement on being Maltese. That means the drivers themselves have a fixed stereotype of what Maltese is. And this reflects a very small, very homogenized totality of what "Maltese" is.

For example speaking the language is proof enough for a cheap fare. So for the drivers being a Maltese emigrant from Australia or whatever, and "looking", and being able to speak a bit of Maltese qualifies you for a cheap ride. Unfair when you consider that the person may be 2nd or 3rd generation, or simply hasnt lived here for 50 years!

On the other hand this means the "visibly" different Maltese may always be asked for ID. Here I mean people who do not look typical, whatever that means. That is Maltese with Asian, African or North European features. Yes there are quite a few of these people and they are probably more "Maltese," than yours truly in many ways.

All this is about the government trying to get away with less money. The gov knows that if all this is seen as against the EU rules the prices will go up for the residents and they can shift the blame. The point is however, that its is about residence and not citizenship or nationality. That means, technically, that any Maltese citizen living here, a rich Brit expat, a UN declared refugee, a Spanish long term student and an American working at the US embassy are all eligible.

Still I see the point that the drivers need to be consistent. You ask all or ask none. But even then it wouldn't sort out the problem of discrimination towards non-residents.

If the EU says all would be ok if EU citizens get lower fares it would stll be discrimination against non-EU folk.