Hungarian Assimilation

Street smarts, yes the "older" generatin of Hungarians and really anyone from any country are a thing of the past. People have forgtten how to communicate with each other in the flesh.
My husband is 74 years old and spent his first 23 years in Budapest.
If not for having street smarts I don't think he could of made it as a stateless person without any language skills.
He spent abut 2 years living in western Eurpe before coming to the USA.
I am still blown away at times when I see how he handles situations with possibly dangerous strangers.
He really knows how to talk to just about anyone to smooth over any disagreements.
I watched him speak kindly to a homeless native American in New Mexico who approched us at a KFC while we were driving a moving truck and had all our possions being lugged across the US.
The guy was hungry so my husband shared his meal with the guy, only told him, "dude come on" when the guy wanted to sip off my husband's drink. I still find that funny as heck. Wish I could think of a joke, " a Hungarian and a Native American meet at a KFC"...

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Street smarts, yes the "older" generatin of Hungarians and really anyone from any country are a thing of the past. People have forgtten how to communicate with each other in the flesh.
My husband is 74 years old and spent his first 23 years in Budapest.
If not for having street smarts I don't think he could of made it as a stateless person without any language skills.
He spent abut 2 years living in western Europe before coming to the USA.
I am still blown away at times when I see how he handles situations with possibly dangerous strangers.
He really knows how to talk to just about anyone to smooth over any disagreements.
I watched him speak kindly to a homeless native American in New Mexico who approched us at a KFC while we were driving a moving truck and had all our possions being lugged across the US.
The guy was hungry so my husband shared his meal with the guy, only told him, "dude come on" when the guy wanted to sip off my husband's drink. I still find that funny as heck. Wish I could think of a joke, " a Hungarian and a Native American meet at a KFC"...

Totally agree with that - Mrs F seems to instinctively handle the odd behaviour of some people here in Hungary - usually the older generation.  I mean those who were adults when the wall came down and are a bit stuck in their ways.  I'm gearing up for Kung Fu, fisticuffs or getting a lawyer and she's keeping cool and charming them.

Mrs F and I were in San Francisco - a long time ago pre-COVID, back in our frivolous and gratuitous world travel days.   

We were parking the car in a spot that was bit difficult to get in and some homeless black guy came over to "help" getting in the space.   

He was a funny guy.  We shared a few words and a couple of laughs.  I gave him a couple of dollars which is what he really wanted. I hope he spent it wisely (not on drugs or drink etc).

That would be Hungarian,  British and American persons meet at a tight car parking spot joke.

Perhaps it would be something like the American would shout out about the great features of the car parking space and optimistically ignoring its difficulties, the British would measure the spot and talk about planning a re-engineering and the Hungarian, would be already setting up the parking spot with the goulash pot. wood fire and palinka - oh and nice bread.   

More about what's important!  Perhaps just an observation, not so much a joke. And definitely a work in progress!

New Brunswick New Jersey in the USA has a small Hungarian community along with an annual Hungarian cultural festival the first Saturday in June. In pandemic times, please double check with the Hungarian American Cultural Center and Museum in town as they  co sponsor this event to see if it will actually take place or not.

To take another example.

In a lot of cultures there's pressure to marry within the tribe, as it were.

I don't sense that's the case with Hungarians, inside or outside the country.

Is that in fact true? For those of you who married into Hungary, did you ever encounter anything less than a welcoming attitude from your spouse's family?

zif wrote:

To take another example.

In a lot of cultures there's pressure to marry within the tribe, as it were.

I don't sense that's the case with Hungarians, inside or outside the country.

Is that in fact true? For those of you who married into Hungary, did you ever encounter anything less than a welcoming attitude from your spouse's family?

Hungary - like everywhere else - is a country of immigrants and emigrants.   But it also depends what you mean by welcoming attitude?  I'd say they were more or less indifferent to who Mrs F married. On my side, I couldn't care less what they thought! They didn't actually say very much except how much they liked Mrs F.  So all good.

And considering the HU history of multiple invasions and rulers, they'd have to adapt to the situation on the fly. Probably made it easier to accept others in their midst.

I guess my frame of reference is various Asian communities in the US. Even if your family has been in America since the California Gold Rush, for example, there's still much pressure on Chinese-Americans to marry within that community.

zif wrote:

I guess my frame of reference is various Asian communities in the US. Even if your family has been in America since the California Gold Rush, for example, there's still much pressure on Chinese-Americans to marry within that community.

It's all cultural.    If you adopted a Chinese born child and brought it up in Sweden, it'd be Swedish in culture and values.   Those Gold Rush Chinese folks will be very different now after a few hundred years compared to those back on the China mainland.  Developed their own environment.

I've done some study on this some years ago. 

Western countries value individuality and less collectivism.   Different for those further East.  I think both have strengths.  Individualistic societies are said to have more innovation but less support in social groupings. There are of course other measurable dimensions like "saving face" in Asia whereas in Western countries, people brazen things out.     

There's an interesting phenomena of "group rebellion" in teenagers in places like Korea.  They still keep to their social norms and don't break out of that. 

There are outliers. I've met people from Asia who do not fit at all.   I know one quite well who just couldn't put up with it any more, constantly bowing to the cultural norms there of family and life.   That person now lives in an individualistic European country and now verbalises about what they want for themselves more than fitting and describing with what their original family group wanted.

I don't think I see any of that kind of behaviour in Hungary.  Pretty much all individualistic to varying degrees.

Conformity and individualism in Hungary raises an interesting point.

I assume but don't know for certain that during the socialist era there was great pressure backed by the state to conforn in thought and deed, or else!

Can today's individualism be traced back to a rejection of socialist conformity?

Is there also an age difference? I seem to remember Marilyn commenting here once that she somehow felt pressure to "dress her age" (by conservative Hungarian standards) from her older Hungarian neighbors.

zif wrote:

Conformity and individualism in Hungary raises an interesting point.

I assume but don't know for certain that during the socialist era there was great pressure backed by the state to conform in thought and deed, or else!

I think there was that kind of thing going on but it didn't stop people thinking "radical" thoughts even though they couldn't necessarily act publicly upon them.

Mrs F and others I told me that all the stereotypical anti-communist things were going on all the time - listening to Western pop music, wearing jeans and so on.   

One quite interesting aspect is that they all knew that communism was a crock but they just played along with it as a system as their overseers (essentially Russia) continued in their delusions.  From what I understand there were people who believed in it but they were relatively few in number.   And while Russian was taught in school, everyone passed with top marks with many actually not being able to put a sentence together.   It was just playing along and pretending.

I think this is quite important as we see it now in bureaucracy.  There was (mostly) a kind of empathy on, "sorry I have to impose this upon you, I know you don't like it but we're all being controlled from elsewhere".  Everyone trying to muddle through.

There was quite a difference between Hungary which had rejected the Soviets in 1956 and say, East Germany which never had a revolution of its own (until 1989 anyway).  But I've always wondered if there was a comparison to be drawn with societal changes there after the 1968 Prague Spring revolution.

In Hungary, it always amused me that Mrs F knew all about the Starsky and Hutch TV show.  They were showing this on Hungarian TV apparently, even during the communist time. It didn't make any sense to me.  I was told that this was to show how bad it was in the imperialist fascist anti-revolutionary USA.  Interesting reverse psychology somewhere in there.

zif wrote:

Can today's individualism be traced back to a rejection of socialist conformity?

Is there also an age difference? I seem to remember Marilyn commenting here once that she somehow felt pressure to "dress her age" (by conservative Hungarian standards) from her older Hungarian neighbors.

Individualism was always in Hungary, it was suppressed to a degree but you can see that all communist states still had art and political thought even though it was twisted up by the communists. 

I don't know about Marilyn's couture choices but it's the same everywhere where people have had cultural standards over the years. 

I suppose it's free access to information and influencers (or propagandists).  There's always a local style of conformity and yes, I think it's age related, i.e. how you were brought up.   Western countries value individuality but some countries with other thought processes prefer conformity (to whatever it is, like religion or clothing or whatever). 

An interesting snapshot of hardline "communist" control behaviour is North Korea where people have regulation haircuts.  I've never  been there but would like to see it as it's the last kind of place where such nonsense goes on.  I also spent some time in Albania and they had some controlling ideas as well during the time of Enver Hoxha - no beards and lots of bunkers everywhere.  The beards were to stop Islam being a counter belief system to communism.  And that's the point really.  Message is don't counter our ideology and don't counter our control. 

Turkmenistan is another weird place I've spent some time in and that's got this kind of undercurrent and background threat going on as well.  Survival means keeping your head down and try to survive past this point in the hope things get better or there's a chance to leave.

zif wrote:

To take another example.

In a lot of cultures there's pressure to marry within the tribe, as it were.

I don't sense that's the case with Hungarians, inside or outside the country.

Is that in fact true? For those of you who married into Hungary, did you ever encounter anything less than a welcoming attitude from your spouse's family?

We visited communist Hungary in 1978 and lugged out 2 1/2 year old baby with us just to see his grandmother in Hungary.
She tried to be nice to me but dropped the ball a few times.
She asked my husband who was still weak at English why I didn't speak Hungarian.
Yes, like a Ca. gal with a young baby living in the US needs to know Hungarian.
Like that was useful.
Then she asked my husband who lived in the US why he married an American and not a HUngarian?
I sort of was mad at how lame she was.
She never seemed to warm up t me, not like my mother did to my husband.
My Ruysn grandfather had some nerve.
My grandmother passed away and left him with 8 living children.
He , I read the translated letters myself. asked his aunt to find him a Ryusn wife to help with his children!
Some nerve to be so picky.
He stated if she couldn't find a Ruysn women then a Pole or Hungarian would probably do.
In the long run he married my grandmothers first cousin, a Ruysn.
Talk about some ego on him.
In the long run, my father was already 22 and his sisters were getting married the only ones to suffer were the younger 4 children. 2 were put in foster homes, they, my 2 uncles are still living and seem just fine.
He had very old fashioned ideas, my MIL had them too.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

...
He stated if she couldn't find a Ruysn women then a Pole or Hungarian would probably do.
In the long run he married my grandmothers first cousin, a Ruysn.
...
He had very old fashioned ideas, my MIL had them too.

Charming!  No-one wants to be second best!

greghomatas wrote:

New Brunswick New Jersey in the USA has a small Hungarian community along with an annual Hungarian cultural festival the first Saturday in June. In pandemic times, please double check with the Hungarian American Cultural Center and Museum in town as they  co sponsor this event to see if it will actually take place or not.

Wow, made me go down memory lane.
We, my husband and I lived in New Brunswick for about 3 months in 1975.
I worked in a bar owned by a Hungarian friend of a friend.
Just served beer to college kids, most were older then me at the time. I was 19 and coming from Ca. had to be 21 to even enter a bar. NJ was only age 18.
We lived in a funky old rooming house that was part bar and resturant.
Owned by a friends aunt, all Hungairans.
She made the best cabbage meals and I ordered it just about everyday for lunch. Had a beer with it and felt, all so,"grown up" being able to openly drink beer in a bar at 19.
I'd never be able to live in such a place again but at age 19 I thought it was an adventure and sort of interesting.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

...
He stated if she couldn't find a Ruysn women then a Pole or Hungarian would probably do.
In the long run he married my grandmothers first cousin, a Ruysn.
...
He had very old fashioned ideas, my MIL had them too.

Charming!  No-one wants to be second best!

That grandfather was a trip.
He is the one who was recruited by force into the Czars Army when he was a teenager and just visiting Poland as a US citizen.
He was a bit off his rocker in many ways.

Let's turn this around. What attempts did anyone here make to assimilate with Hungarians?

There's the language of course. Dress locally, and stoop a bit if over 50. Learn to love paprika and sour cream, especially together. What else? Develop an insane hatred for George Soros?

zif wrote:

Let's turn this around. What attempts did anyone here make to assimilate with Hungarians?

There's the language of course. Dress locally, and stoop a bit if over 50. Learn to love paprika and sour cream, especially together. What else? Develop an insane hatred for George Soros?

I get on alright with Hungarians in general.
I refuse to stoop however and I know I can rasie some eyebrows because of the way I dress for my age.
I cook Hungarian almost as good as a local, in fact sometimes better.
The language I was sort of trying out but life got in the way, no time for it.
I now dress a bit more,"low key" hardly ever wear anything too dressy like I used to do.
Put away most of my flashy jewelery and often wear second hand clothing.
People always speak Hungarian to me when we first meet, so I guess I can blend in.
ATM I am in a situation which requires me to be alone in a large group of Hungarians alone for hours.
No one really pays me any mind so for sure they think I'm a local.
When my name gets called though I have said crazy things such as, "Hippie Ki Yay Coyote" think I blew my cover...

Actually, I'm surprised you gave up on the language. I always take language learning as a hallmark of trying to fit in.

But maybe having a spouse teach you a language is about as good an idea as having a spouse teach you to drive: the sort of thing you do before you get married, not after.

Me, I don't like to speak English either so I also sit in silence. Gotten use to people thinking I'm a dumb mute.

Had dinner once at a large table shared by a lot of other people. Small flasks of what seemed to be wine and vinegar were on the table.

I picked one at random and poured it over my salad. Though I don't speak the language, I could certainly understand what everyone was suddenly screaming at me: "You're putting ouzo on your salad!"

I didn't say a word, and somehow managed to keep a poker face. Then enjoyed my salad.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Charming!  No-one wants to be second best!

Interesting that my topic "Who Wants To Be Second" was deleted.

Stated it was not " expat-related".

Well... Maybe that is true. Or maybe not. I do not know.

But it sure is funny  .

zif wrote:

To take another example.

In a lot of cultures there's pressure to marry within the tribe, as it were.

I don't sense that's the case with Hungarians, inside or outside the country.

Is that in fact true? For those of you who married into Hungary, did you ever encounter anything less than a welcoming attitude from your spouse's family?

My wife, while growing up abroad had a bit of pressure to date and marry a Hungarian from her parents.

Most Hungarian men she met she told me she found to self interested and shallow.

I guess she found my American self more interesting....

I did not find resistance to our marriage from my wife's family. But nor did my father's very anti Germanic family (WWII ideology) reject my father marrying my German mother.

That is, there is nothing really "special" about "Hungarians". People are people. And people are complex.

So it is a possible hazard to try to classify them into an ethnic, religious, national, racial, geographical group, etc etc etc, group of any type.


Hope this helps.

radiumpotato wrote:

....

That is, there is nothing really "special" about "Hungarians". People are people. And people are complex.

So it is a possible hazard to try to classify them into an ethnic, religious, national, racial, geographical group, etc etc etc, group of any type.

I know several special Hungarians - specifically Mrs Fluffy and the Fluffyettes.

Personally, I've always thought classifying people isn't really a good idea for any reason.  But only sticking labels on people may restrict and stereotype them unnecessarily.  But humans will do it anyway.   We're all tribal when it comes to it.

Interesting how this gets highlighted in the movies - the Klingons are warmongering and the Romulans are untrustworthy.   Same goes with the cowboys and indians I guess.

I've long thought there's a big difference between Americans and Europeans on this issue.

Europeans seem to have no difficulty or embarrassment at all in ascribing stereotypes to the Germans, the Greeks, the French etc. But to Americans it seems almost racist, so they avoid it.

zif wrote:

I've long thought there's a big difference between Americans and Europeans on this issue.

Europeans seem to have no difficulty or embarrassment at all in ascribing stereotypes to the Germans, the Greeks, the French etc. But to Americans it seems almost racist, so they avoid it.

I can see that might seem so but of course there's much self-deprecating humour in it.  We all do it in one way or the other anyway.  But none of it is malicious really.  We've been at it for 1000s of years.  At the moment, UK people are complaining about the French fishing boats but no-one really says it's racist.  After all we're rostbifs for them.  I'm not upset by it.  I did cringe when a German guy I worked with called us Insel-affe. Said more about him than me. I thought that was a bit much and had another beer (when I used to drink). 

We find the term African American somewhat strange in the UK.  If someone's heritage was from say Ghana, yet was British we would just say they were just British.  The geographical bit would not be mentioned as a characteristic.  I doubt anyone would feel the urge to ask anything about heritage unless they brought it up first. Seems odd to label the group. 

We do say Hong Kong Chinese if we were specifically talking about those from the former colony but only to distinguish with the mainland groups or those from Taiwan with whom we have no cultural links.  And that wouldn't be a common thing to say really.

radiumpotato wrote:

zif wrote:

To take another example.

In a lot of cultures there's pressure to marry within the tribe, as it were.

I don't sense that's the case with Hungarians, inside or outside the country.

Is that in fact true? For those of you who married into Hungary, did you ever encounter anything less than a welcoming attitude from your spouse's family?

My wife, while growing up abroad had a bit of pressure to date and marry a Hungarian from her parents.

Most Hungarian men she met she told me she found to self interested and shallow.

I guess she found my American self more interesting....

I did not find resistance to our marriage from my wife's family. But nor did my father's very anti Germanic family (WWII ideology) reject my father marrying my German mother.

That is, there is nothing really "special" about "Hungarians". People are people. And people are complex.

So it is a possible hazard to try to classify them into an ethnic, religious, national, racial, geographical group, etc etc etc, group of any type.


Hope this helps.

That's interesting. My Ruysn grandfather always called my mother,"The German".
She was half German but also 1/4th native American so why pick on the German side.
People are like that I suppose.
The thing is whenever my Rusyn and German grandfather would meet at my parents home they were best buddies once the booze started to flow.

zif wrote:

Actually, I'm surprised you gave up on the language. I always take language learning as a hallmark of trying to fit in.

But maybe having a spouse teach you a language is about as good an idea as having a spouse teach you to drive: the sort of thing you do before you get married, not after.

Me, I don't like to speak English either so I also sit in silence. Gotten use to people thinking I'm a dumb mute.

Had dinner once at a large table shared by a lot of other people. Small flasks of what seemed to be wine and vinegar were on the table.

I picked one at random and poured it over my salad. Though I don't speak the language, I could certainly understand what everyone was suddenly screaming at me: "You're putting ouzo on your salad!"

I didn't say a word, and somehow managed to keep a poker face. Then enjoyed my salad.

Yes, my husband was the one trying to teach me Hungarian.
Not a god idea.
He always got way ahead of me and couldn't understand I was lost.
He insisted on me learning ,"prper" Hungarian like a city slicker, no slang and very formal.
He said he was a city boy and his wife had to speak like he does. I just gave up, I love chatting with people but it's not much fun when you can't find the words.
Thank God I learned to drive a manual transmission long before I met him.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

...
Yes, my husband was the one trying to teach me Hungarian.
Not a god idea.
He always got way ahead of me and couldn't understand I was lost.
He insisted on me learning ,"prper" Hungarian like a city slicker, no slang and very formal.
He said he was a city boy and his wife had to speak like he does. I just gave up, I love chatting with people but it's not much fun when you can't find the words.
Thank God I learned to drive a manual transmission long before I met him.

I can see this kind of thing is not unique!

Commentary about driving is probably one of the top reasons for divorce   

My own Hungarian is pathetic considering how long I've been involved. I know quite a few words and phrases but unable to truly string a sentence together.    That's despite having phrase books, learning materials, CDs etc and meeting with Hungarians all the time. Just never really got into it enough as it wasn't that important.

Interestingly, our teenage HU daughter gets angry and frustrated sometimes because I cannot really speak Hungarian but I think it's more useful if she can argue with me in English.   

I was thinking that if someone can truly argue in a foreign language, that's got to be an indicator of true bilingualism.  I mean with the blood boiling and the anger going, it's got to come from instinct.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

...
Yes, my husband was the one trying to teach me Hungarian.
Not a god idea.
He always got way ahead of me and couldn't understand I was lost.
He insisted on me learning ,"prper" Hungarian like a city slicker, no slang and very formal.
He said he was a city boy and his wife had to speak like he does. I just gave up, I love chatting with people but it's not much fun when you can't find the words.
Thank God I learned to drive a manual transmission long before I met him.

I can see this kind of thing is not unique!

Commentary about driving is probably one of the top reasons for divorce   

My own Hungarian is pathetic considering how long I've been involved. I know quite a few words and phrases but unable to truly string a sentence together.    That's despite having phrase books, learning materials, CDs etc and meeting with Hungarians all the time. Just never really got into it enough as it wasn't that important.

Interestingly, our teenage HU daughter gets angry and frustrated sometimes because I cannot really speak Hungarian but I think it's more useful if she can argue with me in English.   

I was thinking that if someone can truly argue in a foreign language, that's got to be an indicator of true bilingualism.  I mean with the blood boiling and the anger going, it's got to come from instinct.

I am surprised by my husband skill at telling people their place in English.
He always says his English is horrible because he was mostly self taught and as he ages he sometimes forgets a few words or mixes them up.
I think he speaks English just fine,really better then some native English speakers I've heard.
Me, I am sadly no longer really interested in learning any languages.
The time has passed for my brain power and will to learn.
An,"old dog".
I was alright in my first year of learning French when I was 14, totally have orgotten it all because of lack of use. Got an A in class.
Took German the next year. was horrid at it although I was put into the class several months later then the other students were.Hard to play catch up when you're at least 2 months behind everyne else.Got a D in that class.
I should of stuck with the French.Sunds nicer to the ear to me as well.
My eldest sister took Spanish forever all through HS and into collage.
She was very fluent in Spanish and loved it.
She applied for a job as a flight attendant but they wouldn't except Spanish as a foriegn language !
This was in the late 1960's.
After that she was discouraged for speaking much Spanish, only used it once in Spain. It wasnt even the dialect  she learned in Ca. either.
My Ruysn grandfather spoke about 5 slavic languages and poor English, born in the US but grew up in his ethnic community of Ruysn's.
My Hungarian FIL learned fluent Russian in 5 or 6 yeaars, He was in a slave labor camp all that time post WW11. He also spoke fluent Romanian besides Hungarian.
Still wasn't able to communicate with him with my English only skill.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

...
Yes, my husband was the one trying to teach me Hungarian.
Not a god idea.
He always got way ahead of me and couldn't understand I was lost.
He insisted on me learning ,"prper" Hungarian like a city slicker, no slang and very formal.
He said he was a city boy and his wife had to speak like he does. I just gave up, I love chatting with people but it's not much fun when you can't find the words.
Thank God I learned to drive a manual transmission long before I met him.

I can see this kind of thing is not unique!

Commentary about driving is probably one of the top reasons for divorce   

My own Hungarian is pathetic considering how long I've been involved. I know quite a few words and phrases but unable to truly string a sentence together.    That's despite having phrase books, learning materials, CDs etc and meeting with Hungarians all the time. Just never really got into it enough as it wasn't that important.

Interestingly, our teenage HU daughter gets angry and frustrated sometimes because I cannot really speak Hungarian but I think it's more useful if she can argue with me in English.   

I was thinking that if someone can truly argue in a foreign language, that's got to be an indicator of true bilingualism.  I mean with the blood boiling and the anger going, it's got to come from instinct.

I am surprised by my husband skill at telling people their place in English.
He always says his English is horrible because he was mostly self taught and as he ages he sometimes forgets a few words or mixes them up.
I think he speaks English just fine,really better then some native English speakers I've heard.
Me, I am sadly no longer really interested in learning any languages.
The time has passed for my brain power and will to learn.
An,"old dog".
I was alright in my first year of learning French when I was 14, totally have orgotten it all because of lack of use. Got an A in class.
Took German the next year. was horrid at it although I was put into the class several months later then the other students were.Hard to play catch up when you're at least 2 months behind everyne else.Got a D in that class.
I should of stuck with the French.Sunds nicer to the ear to me as well.
My eldest sister took Spanish forever all through HS and into collage.
She was very fluent in Spanish and loved it.
She applied for a job as a flight attendant but they wouldn't except Spanish as a foriegn language !
This was in the late 1960's.
After that she was discouraged for speaking much Spanish, only used it once in Spain. It wasnt even the dialect  she learned in Ca. either.
My Ruysn grandfather spoke about 5 slavic languages and poor English, born in the US but grew up in his ethnic community of Ruysn's.
My Hungarian FIL learned fluent Russian in 5 or 6 yeaars, He was in a slave labor camp all that time post WW11. He also spoke fluent Romanian besides Hungarian.
Still wasn't able to communicate with him with my English only skill.

I cannot say Hungarian is easy on the ears but it depends who you are.

Apparently the French think Russian accents sound nice.  Who'd have thought!  Maybe someone will chip in on the truth of that. There's some technical word for how nice a language sounds but don't remember exactly what it was. 

I personally like Spanish. My HU daughter really likes it - she's just enthralled by it.  And she's very good at it at school and totally committed.  I expect her Spanish teacher thinks she's a gift to teach.  I would love to be able to speak Spanish. I can understand quite a lot of the written word but no true idea on speaking.  We watch a lot of Spanish TV shows I know that - thank god for subtitling! The spoken language is very difficult.

My FIL spoke Hungarian and Russian (he was a teacher of both).  But no English or German of course.  I was never able to truly communicate with him before he passed. Same for my MIL.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

I can see this kind of thing is not unique!

Commentary about driving is probably one of the top reasons for divorce   

My own Hungarian is pathetic considering how long I've been involved. I know quite a few words and phrases but unable to truly string a sentence together.    That's despite having phrase books, learning materials, CDs etc and meeting with Hungarians all the time. Just never really got into it enough as it wasn't that important.

Interestingly, our teenage HU daughter gets angry and frustrated sometimes because I cannot really speak Hungarian but I think it's more useful if she can argue with me in English.   

I was thinking that if someone can truly argue in a foreign language, that's got to be an indicator of true bilingualism.  I mean with the blood boiling and the anger going, it's got to come from instinct.

I am surprised by my husband skill at telling people their place in English.
He always says his English is horrible because he was mostly self taught and as he ages he sometimes forgets a few words or mixes them up.
I think he speaks English just fine,really better then some native English speakers I've heard.
Me, I am sadly no longer really interested in learning any languages.
The time has passed for my brain power and will to learn.
An,"old dog".
I was alright in my first year of learning French when I was 14, totally have orgotten it all because of lack of use. Got an A in class.
Took German the next year. was horrid at it although I was put into the class several months later then the other students were.Hard to play catch up when you're at least 2 months behind everyne else.Got a D in that class.
I should of stuck with the French.Sunds nicer to the ear to me as well.
My eldest sister took Spanish forever all through HS and into collage.
She was very fluent in Spanish and loved it.
She applied for a job as a flight attendant but they wouldn't except Spanish as a foriegn language !
This was in the late 1960's.
After that she was discouraged for speaking much Spanish, only used it once in Spain. It wasnt even the dialect  she learned in Ca. either.
My Ruysn grandfather spoke about 5 slavic languages and poor English, born in the US but grew up in his ethnic community of Ruysn's.
My Hungarian FIL learned fluent Russian in 5 or 6 yeaars, He was in a slave labor camp all that time post WW11. He also spoke fluent Romanian besides Hungarian.
Still wasn't able to communicate with him with my English only skill.

I cannot say Hungarian is easy on the ears but it depends who you are.

Apparently the French think Russian accents sound nice.  Who'd have thought!  Maybe someone will chip in on the truth of that. There's some technical word for how nice a language sounds but don't remember exactly what it was. 

I personally like Spanish. My HU daughter really likes it - she's just enthralled by it.  And she's very good at it at school and totally committed.  I expect her Spanish teacher thinks she's a gift to teach.  I would love to be able to speak Spanish. I can understand quite a lot of the written word but no true idea on speaking.  We watch a lot of Spanish TV shows I know that - thank god for subtitling! The spoken language is very difficult.

My FIL spoke Hungarian and Russian (he was a teacher of both).  But no English or German of course.  I was never able to truly communicate with him before he passed. Same for my MIL.

At my family reuinon in Poland 8 years ago I was told I have a close relation, 3rd cousin maybe on my grandmother's side who lives in the 8th district here in Budapest and was a English teacher. She is the mother of a cosuin who was born in Budapest and now is a doctor in the UK.
I thought about looking her up but to be honest my doctor cousin was a bit weird, not to friendly with any of her US relations. A bit snoby, guess being a doctor got to her head.
It was a shame really because she looked so much like my deceased sister it freaked me out when I first saw her face. Her hair color, facial bones ect. reminded me of my sister  even the way she moved was like my sister but my sis was more charming and pretty.OK, call me biased.Personality is ones beauty to me.
My Polish realtions were English teachers, not sure but there seems to be a ton of teachers in the family tree.
No to be honest to me French and sometimes Turkish sound nice to my ears, Italian too.
Hungarian can sound nice if it is not too loud or too fast, I find most people here seem to scream when they speak and that turns me off. It's bad enough that Hungarian is so monatone but to be loud as well just is too much for me. Not interested in learning that as it sounds so annoying.

Going back to assimilation with Hungarians (being with no roots and Western European), no real go, but I love them, friendly, open and in 50 percent speak either German and/or English and even some Russian.
In our neighbourhood our connections with the Hungarians is better and more close than the Dutch (being myself Dutch) living in the Netherlands.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

...
At my family reuinon in Poland 8 years ago I was told I have a close relation, 3rd cousin maybe on my grandmother's side who lives in the 8th district here in Budapest and was a English teacher. She is the mother of a cosuin who was born in Budapest and now is a doctor in the UK.
I thought about looking her up but to be honest my doctor cousin was a bit weird, not to friendly with any of her US relations. A bit snoby, guess being a doctor got to her head.
It was a shame really because she looked so much like my deceased sister it freaked me out when I first saw her face. Her hair color, facial bones ect. reminded me of my sister  even the way she moved was like my sister but my sis was more charming and pretty.OK, call me biased.Personality is ones beauty to me.
My Polish relations were English teachers, not sure but there seems to be a ton of teachers in the family tree.
No to be honest to me French and sometimes Turkish sound nice to my ears, Italian too.
Hungarian can sound nice if it is not too loud or too fast, I find most people here seem to scream when they speak and that turns me off. It's bad enough that Hungarian is so monatone but to be loud as well just is too much for me. Not interested in learning that as it sounds so annoying.

I've heard stories about adopted kids seeking out their birth parents and being shocked to the degree how much alike they are.  People say it explains so much about them. I suppose it's nature vs nurture.   Your cousin probably has dominant Marilyn family genes.

Oh, that HU monatone voice. How does that work?  And why? I find it ridiculous on the radio that they sound like  robots or they've had their personalities removed.  In the UK, the radio speakers have some emotion in their voices and adjust the seriousness according to the story. It can be a bit odd now I think of it reporting 100s of dead in an earthquake, then seconds later all jaunty on some frivolous story. 

Interestingly Mrs F has much more expression when she speaks English (to me anyway) than when I hear her speaking Hungarian.  At least it seems like that now.  Maybe I've just got used to it.

I personally like the sound of Spanish, less so Italian but surprisingly (to me), as Latin type language,  Portuguese doesn't really sound that nice.  But aural beauty is perhaps in the ear of the receiver.

cdw057 wrote:

Going back to assimilation with Hungarians (being with no roots and Western European), no real go, but I love them, friendly, open and in 50 percent speak either German and/or English and even some Russian.
In our neighbourhood our connections with the Hungarians is better and more close than the Dutch (being myself Dutch) living in the Netherlands.

Are you planning to learn Turkish when you leave  Hungary?

I've always wondered about some of the words in Turkish and Hungarian.  You can see it at the airport - the word "kapu" means gate in Turkey and in Hungary too.  There's also "tessék" but I've been told it's entirely coincidental.  I think I might have heard "sok" there too.

My husband does sort of speak monatone in English.
I often tell him to snap out of it becuase he is putting me to sleep.
He isn't a big talker but when he gets in the mood he can talk up a storm.
Hungarians learned Russian in school, it was mandatory.

My recollection is that linguistically there's a very slight connection between Hungarian and Turkish, sort of like the slight connection between Hungarian and Finnish.

Also, I think a few words were borrowed from Turkish during the long Ottoman occupation.

zif wrote:

My recollection is that linguistically there's a very slight connection between Hungarian and Turkish, sort of like the slight connection between Hungarian and Finnish.

Also, I think a few words were borrowed from Turkish during the long Ottoman occupation.

Yes, that's why I mentioned it. 

I heard from an Estonian guy (apparently like Finnish) that old words in Estonian were the same in Hungarian.

I did check this but I didn't find that.

He had previously mentioned words like "church" and "fish". 

But my research was cursory at best.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

My husband does sort of speak monatone in English.
I often tell him to snap out of it becuase he is putting me to sleep.
He isn't a big talker but when he gets in the mood he can talk up a storm.
Hungarians learned Russian in school, it was mandatory.

Haha, like Mrs Fluffy. 

She got top marks in Russian but it wasn't that useful when we went to Ukraine. 

But nearly everyone got 100% for Russian despite knowing absolutely nothing!

Everyone was pretending.

They have more personality on the TV than radio but it might be just because we can see them speaking.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

My husband does sort of speak monatone in English.
I often tell him to snap out of it becuase he is putting me to sleep.
He isn't a big talker but when he gets in the mood he can talk up a storm.
Hungarians learned Russian in school, it was mandatory.

Haha, like Mrs Fluffy. 

She got top marks in Russian but it wasn't that useful when we went to Ukraine. 

But nearly everyone got 100% for Russian despite knowing absolutely nothing!

Everyone was pretending.

They have more personality on the TV than radio but it might be just because we can see them speaking.

Think it was required to take Russian for 3 years but not sure.
My husband can count in Russian and remembers a few words and phrases but he said he resented the whole thing about being forced to learn it so he never really put much effort into it.
Yes everyone was pretending to learn it.
Just did what he had to do so his mom wouldn't get upset over bad school marks.
That would never stop me, I'd get an A in one calss and a low D in another, I really disliked everything about school after grade 6. Just went through the motions.