Does Brazil Really Want Retirees to Immigrate?
Last activity 04 May 2022 by sprealestatebroker
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There are so many things I like about Brazil, especially Curitiba. But the more I look into it, the more unsure I am as to Brazilian policy toward retirees. Please correct me if I am wrong on any of the following problems I see:
1. There used to be a specific path for retiree immigrants. But that was changed. Now it seems that no one knows for sure how the new rules will be implemented over the coming years, except that monitoring will be more frequent. Older people don't like this kind of uncertainty.
2. Retirement income from the U. S. is subject to double taxation. A Brazilian tax accountant seems necessary. Personally I always do my own taxes in the U. S., and I don't like paying fees and (once again) dealing with uncertainty.
3. The rule that only 2,000 reals or less can be carried on entry without the hassle (and uncertainty) of making a formal declaration is very low compared to other countries.
4. Other countries have legal money exchanges offering excellent rates on almost every corner of big cities.
5. Other countries have ATMs on almost every corner. They vary in terms of fees and exchange rates, but Bradesco today clipped me for 6 1/2 % plus a fee. That's highway robbery.
6. Given that the changes concerning retirement visas and increased ATM robbery are fairly recent, you have to wonder whether this is a trend that will get worse.
I don't think I have a particularly high need for certainty. I have lived for years in Paraguay, which in some ways is quite a wild west, and I have traveled extensively. But the more I look at it, the more it seems that Brazil just isn't interested in attracting retirees. My view is that retirees help the economy just by spending dollars, thereby supporting businesses and workers. Retirees pay sales taxes on their purchases. What other countries are saying is: bring your dollars and lots of them. Brazil seems not to care.
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Try santander,bradesco went from 1% to 6.5%,in no time,banco 24 hours,is 1 atm,i avoid,scary.
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Do yourself a favor and pick somewhere else to retire. I've been living in Rio de Janeiro since May 2021 on a retirement visa and if I could do it all over again I would've picked a different country. As an American, what I've learned since being here is that many Brazilians (at least the ones here in Rio) don't really care much for foreigners. From my own experience, the Brazilian government and the citizens constantly seek to exploit foreigners at any given opportunity.
To start off, the transition process is a nightmare because the Brazilian government and its public/immigration services are so disorganized. It can take weeks if not months to complete the visa process once you arrive for this reason, especially if you elect to do it yourself without paid assistance. And if you do it yourself, then expect to have your time wasted as the government/local representatives struggle to figure out how to help you. Besides that, the system doesn't work as you'd expect. For example, when you arrive with your retirement visa you'll need to schedule an appointment with the Federal Police who'll need to process your documents in order to issue the identification card for foreigners. With this card (CRNM) and a CPF number, you'd think that's all you'd need to begin your new life in Brazil. However, in my case even with said documents, I couldn't independently signup for a monthly cellphone plan nor open a bank account. I had to have a Brazilian friend put the cellphone plan in her name and she also had to co-sign on my bank account. Then once I finally found an apartment, she also had to put the monthly internet service in her name. It took almost six months before I could put anything in my name. The excuse that I was constantly given is, "Your CPF is too new or you don't have a credit history", despite me telling them I'm a foreigner/newly arrived resident.
Besides that, crime is a real thing here, especially petty theft. I moved into a beachfront condominium in an upscale area (located in Barra da Tijuca, Rio de Janeiro) due to it being gated and having 24hr security. However, none of that mattered because the condominium staff still robbed my apartment on several occasions whenever I was away during the first 3-4 months after moving-in. I honestly never expected to to be robbed in this scenario so it took about 4 months before I realized what was happening. What's even worse is this was also fueled by hatred... when I moved into the apartment I had an inflatable mattress which within a week went from working perfectly fine to being punctured overnight. Similar things occurred with some of my electronics in which they suddenly didn't work. Besides that, I've had several other incidents in which Brazilians have attempted to overcharge or scam me. It's honestly caused me to have a certain disdain and distrust of Brazilians. I'm not saying that all Brazilians are bad but this type of stuff happens so often that now I question everything and anyone I interact with here, which is definitely not what I hoped for in retirement.
Living in Brazil is completely different from visiting as a tourist. As a tourist, I don't think I ever complained about a single thing. However, after being here almost a year, I can say that it's not an easy place to live... at least not at first. And as a military veteran who spent more than a decade living in various countries, I can say the transition to Brazil isn't for the faint of heart. Many of your assumptions are indeed true... (1) there's no certainty when it comes to the retirement visa which is initially issued for a period of only two years with little known about the exact renewal requirements, (2) there's no tax agreement between the U.S. and Brasil and so if Brazil considers it income then expect to pay up to 27% in taxes, (3) you can arrive with up to R$9,999 at the airport without needing to declare it with customs, (4) I'd suggest you avoid currency exchange locations and instead convert only what's needed to pay your bills via an online service (i.e. Wise, Remitly, etc.) and use your U.S. bank/credit cards for daily purchases (to avoid the 'shady' Brazilian banking system), (5) I find it very easy to function without the need to withdraw cash from ATMs and thereby avoid the ridiculous fees (but this is easier once you have a Brazilian bank account with access to PIX), (6) the ATM robberies have been ongoing for years and so it's nothing new... it's simply an easy crime for individuals that likely lack the resources and expertise to mastermind more complex robberies.
In conclusion, despite my complaints I do like and enjoy Brazil... but as a retiree I would've preferred somewhere a bit more stable. But who knows, maybe things will get better and my opinion will change in the months and years to come.
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04/06/22 @ Getting On
Unfortunately, I think that most of the points you raise a largely correct.
1. I was shocked when I first read the current Law of Migration to find that the old Retirement Visa, which had been a subtype of the VIPER, the Permanent Visa (one of the few truly "permanent visas" in the world) had disappeared, along with the VIPER itself -- not modified, as other VIPER subtypes had been, but completely done away with. The old Retirement Visa was a carbon copy of those of Mexico and the Caribbean countries, with similar advantages. The new one, which was only introduced about two years later, is much less generous. The requirement for foreign health insurance is, in my layman's view, probably unconstitutional if enforced once a visaholder is in Brazil, but might never be challenged. As one ages and capacities diminish, I think that there's real cause for concern.
2. I don't mind paying my fair share in any society where I live, so I'm largely indifferent to the taxation issue. I've never viewed simply being a good consumer as either praiseworthy or blameworthy in itself, or in any sense a "contribution". One man's opinion. To the very limited extent that I'm exercised by the "double taxation" issue, my ire is more directed against the US which, with Myanmar and Eritrea (what a club!) is one of the few countries to tax nonresident citizens' global income. I support Americans Abroad's efforts to lobby Congress to change that, although I'm not hopeful.
BTW, there's nothing to prevent foreign residents from doing their own Brazilian taxes. They just have to be extremely fluent in Portuguese generally, with experience in deciphering the formal language in an official register, a skill for tracking down every obscure and potentially contradictory regulation, and time to do it. Otherwise, they'll probably either overpay or underpay. What I pay my accountant is well worth it just to save me from all that, as well as to have a professional at my side if someday I AM audited.
3. I'm not familiar with that rule -- I'll need to research it. I don't carry much cash, but I usually travel with more than R$2000, so I may have been in technical violation at one point or another.
4. Every country's exchange policies are different, as you know.
5. ATMs have been abundant in any Brazilian city that I've ever lived or visited. I use them strictly in bank lobbies for security; I won't even use an on-street ATM or one in a store in the US, so I never would here.
6. ATM robberies are all too common, but not new and not limited to foreigners. My now-husband, a Brazilian, was robbed at gunpoint in São Paulo by a guy on a motorcycle in 2015, exiting an ATM booth. They're probably worse since the pandemic began, though.
"But the more I look at it, the more it seems that Brazil just isn't interested in attracting retirees." I think that you've broken the code. Retiring in Brazil, I imagine, is like it would be in China, or India, or the US, or really in any large country. The attitude is very much, "come if you like and if you qualify, we won't do anything to hinder you, but we won't do anything to help you, either. You're on your own." I love Brazil, but again, you're right: there are very nice countries, several closer to North America and Western Europe than Brazil is, that roll out the red carpet for retirees in ways that Brazil doesn't and never will. Honestly, I don't understand why anyone without a pre-existing attachment to Brazil would retire here, rather than one of those countries.
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404/06/22 @dgwarmyman
I'm sorry that your experience has been so unpleasant. We all have war stories, but yours seem to have hit you unusually hard, all at once and at the beginning. As I said in the post above in response to Getting On, I agree with you: any retiree who doesn't already have a connection with Brazil should strongly consider other countries that are friendlier to retirees. Most of them are closer to North America and Europe, too, the largest sources of retirees. The old saying continues to be true: "Brazil is not for beginners!"
There is a strong, if subtle, xenophobia in Brazil in general -- it's not your imagination. Foreigners, or people assumed to be foreigners, are often viewed by many Brazilians as rich, free spending, and a source of extra income, even by people who don't share the prejudice against foreigners in general. This is the source of the infamous "Gringo Tax", the "little extra" that often gets added to your charge if you don't pay close attention. There's also a strident, vocal Anti-Americanism, but it's limited in its most extreme forms to the Far Left and the Far Right, so unless you're active in academia or the print media, you're not likely to encounter it, except in the wrong place at the wrong time. Brazil is also a rigorously monolingual country, and no one without a good control of Portuguese will get far or be happy here. If you haven't done it already and you plan to continue living here, I'd recommend formal language lessons from reputable teachers ASAP. You will NOT pick up enough of this language by osmosis in enough time to save you a lot of trouble.
The transition process on moving has never been easy, but it was seriously impacted by the pandemic, so some of your experience comes from the bad luck of arriving when you did. I know that doesn't help. Your cellphone, bank, and apartment experiences do sound dreadful. They don't line up at all with mine, but everyone's are different, and so is every city.
Your apartment experience sounds horrible. I'm not sure why you conclude that the building staff is entering your apartment and taking things while you're away -- that WOULD be highly unusual, particularly in the kind of condominium that you describe -- but if I even suspected such a thing, I would contact the owner of the apartment immediately, offer to change all the locks at my own expense, make sure that the new locks had uncopiable keys, and make sure that I knew who had every copy of every key. That would go for the access doors to any terraces or balconies, as well. Any answer except "yes, certainly!" from the landlord would ensure that I moved as soon as I could get out of the lease.
WRT some of your other domestic complaints, the Brazilian power grid is hard on electronics, both foreign and domestic. Power failures are frequent, and so are surges when the power returns. Even the 127V current in some cities (like Manaus, where I live) is not quite right for 120V US gear, and isn't Rio all or mostly 220V? That means lots of transformers, and lots more possible points of failure. I hope that at least you have all of your computers and other really valuable gear on surge protectors, as well.
A lot of good advice in your second last paragraph: I highly recommend it to anyone researching moving to Brazil.
"But who knows, maybe things will get better and my opinion will change in the months and years to come." The good news is that I don't know anyone whose first months here had quite as many problems piled into them as yours did: you really do seem to have gotten a lot of your war stories upfront. Kudos for sticking it out. Work on your Portuguese, stay alert, and things should start improving. If not, remember that there ARE easier places, so don't let sunk costs stand in the way of your happiness. All the best!
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I agree with ab3.
One needs to research the country. Not, just beaches and bars, but the culture and laws.
As to your 3. This is not correct. You may bring $R9.999 into BR without declaring the funds. As to the $R2.000 per month. If you do not need the total $R 2.000, you can send less. You just need to prove you have such funds.
Now I traveled to BR for work for a few years and many times I was the "gringo", but I also traveled across BR and found many kinds and interesting people and places.
Upon my decision to marry and retire in BR, at first (and some days today), question me. Having a lovely caring person in my life helps. I am happy.
Now there are times when I say "what the heck" when things arise, especially these many "strikes. Okay, I say if the employees of on one bank strike, what is it all banks are on strike?
Or a Federal agency strikes and affects all in BR! I remember the air traffic control employees who went on strike in the US. The next day the president said return or be dismissed. There are many ex ATC employees flipping burgers today.
(Speaking of strikes, is anyone having issues transferring funds from their overseas accounts or trying to pay via a government bank app lately? The Central Bank is on strike and delays are causing issues for all!
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@Texanbrazil Thanks for the correction on the amount of undeclared funds on entry into Brazil. I knew it had to be less than 10,000 Reals but I was thinking of dollars (10,000 reals is roughly $2,000). So I wrote 2,000 Reals incorrectly.
Still $2,000 is not a lot of money especially if you have pay rent in cash.
You also write: "As to the $R2.000 per month. If you do not need the total $R 2.000, you can send less. You just need to prove you have such funds." I see from other posts that there is a debate on this, with some people say that authorities check up on whether the minimum 2,000 is actually sent to a bank each month. I'm sure that you are correctly stating your experience, and I'm sure that others are correctly stating their experiences. So actually this is another one of those hazy areas of uncertainty.
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@dgwarmyman Thanks so much for your detailed post. Wow. I have lived for years in a high-rise in Asuncion, Paraguay, and I have never heard of the kinds of thefts and vandalism you describe in buildings with 24-hour security or in gated communities. In Paraguay, I do hear of all kinds of thefts in non-secured buildings, including a chief of police getting shot when burglarizing a Swiss man's home in the suburbs. Also, police in Asuncion will frequently support the story of the motorcyclist who deliberately crashes into your car and then demands a payment. And almost all interactions with government officials, including residency, involve demands for bribes (I never pay, and wait). But taxis and Uber and Bolt are so cheap that a car is not needed. You find ways to get along. The biggest problem with Paraguay is that it is very hot and smoky - I guess I might be a climate refugee.
My impression from talking to people is that 24-hour security buildings and gated communities in Curitiba are safe, but then I am a newcomer who really knows very little. Maybe I am naive, but I don't sense a lot of anti-American hostility in Curitiba during my several visits here. People always ask me where I'm from, and they seem genuinely pleased to meet an American. As in Paraguay, there seem to be some colorful political extremists, but people here tell me that the worst of it is a little attempted "gringo tax" here and there - so I always ask for lists of prices in the local language. From what people tell me, I'm rather afraid of Rio and Sao Paolo. But all my life I have enjoyed living in places where I don't understand the language and have to learn the customs. I have usually found very friendly, honest, interesting people. I think I read too many Graham Greene novels as an adolescent.
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@ Getting on
I have rarely sent $2,000 U$ into my account. Let's say I just do not believe having a lot of reais in my BR account may draw attention that I do not care for.
As to reals. Oh yeah, just health insurance is $R 4.000 per month for the two of us. I use my US CC for many items and pay it off in the US, so not much need for cash in BR.
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3Tex's info is always good, but he's here on VIPER. All VIPERs were grandfathered under the 2017 law, and those of us lucky enough to have them still benefit from the rules under the old law.@ Getting onI have rarely sent $2,000 U$ into my account. Let's say I just do not believe having a lot of reais in my BR account may draw attention that I do not care for.As to reals. Oh yeah, just health insurance is ... - @Texanbrazil
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ab3 are calling me a grandfather??????
But I am retired..... and a family reunion does require transfer due to my wife's spending!!!!!!!
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@abthree
Thanks for the response. In regard to my apartment being robbed, the individuals responsible slowly stole dozens of items in the 3-4 months after I moved-in and intentionally took things that I wouldn't immediately notice; and that wouldn't be easily traceable by police. For example, they gradually stole about $1000 of Nike athletic apparel (among other things) over that period which wasn't apparent initially seeing as the majority of my belongings were still in boxes (freshly arrived after shipped via sea from the U.S. to Brazil). Once I finally did realize what was happening, I purchased a security camera to attempt to catch the culprits 'in the act' before addressing the issue with the condominium management. Besides that, I strongly suspected the condominium manager was the ringleader and so I wanted to have some evidence to report him and any others involved. To no avail, I tried for almost two months to get said evidence, but by then I was avoiding how often and how long I left my apartment, which probably stopped the robberies at that point. That said, I finally reported the issue to the condominium in early-January 2022... and oddly had to file the report with the same person (the condominium manager) who was likely involved in the robberies. I made it very clear that if it happened again and/or if anyone entered my apartment that I would involve the police and my lawyer. I haven't had an issue since.
Regarding the mention of my items and electronics being tampered with, I'm certain that it wasn't any type of malfunction or voltage issue. My apartment is almost entirely 127V and so that couldn't have been the cause. Besides that, I arrived in Brazil on May 1, 2021 and lived in an AirBnB without any issues up until when I moved into my apartment in mid-August, 2021. I'm an experienced traveler (with 40+ countries under my belt) and have spent time in places with far worse electrical systems and even still never had these types of issues in the past. And it honestly took me months to reach these conclusions because I never imagined that people could be this malicious and dreadful to an absolute stranger under these circumstances. Luckily, they didn't tamper with my computers and other high-value electronics. Anyway, I'm feeling a lot better nowadays with all that in the past and no longer an issue. Nevertheless, I just wanted to make the original poster aware of my experience as someone who recently to moved to Brazil as a retiree. And I say that as someone who read these forums in the months leading up to the move to Brazil... during which I found it easy to ignore and/or overlook these types of issues because they seemed more related to tourists rather than long-term foreign-residents/immigrants. I'm just glad that your response (and others) to the original poster were straight-forward and honest about the negative aspects.
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@dgwarmyman
During my consulting days, I had to be very familiar with all the principal ports of Brazil. We always avoided the Port of Rio de Janeiro for shipments whenever we could, especially valuable ones, because it's notorious for corruption and criminality. When I moved here and my sea shipment came, even though we had submitted all of the documents for it to clear in the Green Lane, almost all of the boxes had still been opened and rifled. The Port of Manaus has a much better reputation than Rio and nothing was missing, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of your stuff was stolen before the container was even delivered to you.
If you're convinced that it was the building staff, I would have already moved; changing the locks at the very least would seem to be a must. Good luck.
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2Like Liberace, Tex, you cry all the way to the bank.04/06/22 ab3 are calling me a grandfather??????But I am retired..... and a family ... - @Texanbrazil
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In regards to electronics, Using estabilizadors is mandatory in my household. Didnt use it once, Luckily it was just the phone charger that got nuked, but from there, I make that an absolute in my house, I feel your pain there, your story reminds me all too well of my life in canada with constant break ins. So glad to be free from that.
I am not sure if its due to my visa, however no one checks the money I send to my account , It is all just reported during tax time so may be why, Some months I send less , Some months I need to replace hardware which is super expensive in brazil to import, I now just buy all my electronics domestically, Saves me import taxation then paying more at end of year.
Still everyone is on point when they say "Research brazil for as long as you need"
If you do not - it will be a very overall poor experience,
"Gringo tax" this makes me chuckle each time, When I go somewhere and they try that I just leave. go to the next store willing to sell at price "A Vista" for the cash discount. If i need again Ill revisit the same store that tried that on me - Normally they catch on pretty quick that I am not a tourist.
But having the male equivilant of resting bitch face does work in my favor frequently lol.
Everyones experiences are going to be unique to each person good or bad.
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This right here. MAAANNOOOOO lol. Between that and my kiddo its just lol. I am not retired yet either lol!ab3 are calling me a grandfather??????But I am retired..... and a family ... - @Texanbrazil
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104/06/22 @Mikeflanagan
"I am not sure if its due to my visa, however no one checks the money I send to my account , It is all just reported during tax time so may be why,"
I had to provide a bunch of documents to Banco do Brasil when I got my first transfer, then never again, except a copy of my Brazilian Income tax return every year.
Never again, that is, until this week.
I think that my monthly transfer was caught in the Banco Central strike on Friday. Wise has been transmitting my funds monthly, same amount every month, through Banco Rendimento in São Paulo for over a year with no problems and next day service. I ordered funds last Thursday night, they were in SP the next day -- and there they remain.
Banco Rendimento emailed on Monday asking for all the documents needed to open an account. I emailed them back within the hour, and since then ... *crickets*. It's probably the strike, it feels like a "work to rule" situation. Still, I'm considering abandoning Wise and going back to SWIFT transfers from my US bank, just to remove a link from the daisy chain.
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The flavor of my experiences has been similar, there is much friendliness up front and in my case, considerable curiosity, since they see Americans in Bom Jesus about as often as they see people with green skin, fins and gills. But there is just this incredible intrasigence that keeps appearing every time that I try to get anything at all accomplished.
My approach, however, is different. Its tempered by the fact that I really, really really do not like my own country, not either the politics or the general attitude of cashiers and doctors and people on the street.
So I look at the resistance that Brazil is pushing at me as kind of a constant kind of test. They just want to make really sure that I really want to live among them. I would never, for example, live in a gated community. Not only that but I make sure people see me, blue eyes and all, I walk around town, I ride my scooter around town, I engage with people, I watch and look around to see what other people do and I do my best to fit in. Many Americans would get an instant attitude about some of the things Brazilians have done --or really, have refrained from doing when I made a simple request -- but I just roll with it. Tem um outre jeito. I will get things done, whatever it takes. With that attitude, I find that persistence and a smile pays off and things do get done, it just takes a little patience, no one likes to work hard in the heat, I get that too....eu amo tanto Brasil .....
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Ya I used to use worldremit. however there was a technical issue on their end requiring more information from their partner in brazil so I switched to wise. I am however using itau. Not had much as far as issues have gone here just yet. SWIFT for canada to brazil is a bit of a nuance, as it will take 5-7 business days for the transfer to process providing nothing causes any red flags for swift , there has been some mild scrutiny as they need to precheck things to make sure I would not be sending money to russia after, "sigh" lol04/06/22 @Mikeflanagan"I am not sure if its due to my visa, however no one checks the money I send to my account , It is all just reported during tax time so may be why,"I had to ... - @abthree
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When advised of the issues ongoing with the Central Bank I did a test transfer Monday morning. It arrived in Bradesco yesterday afternoon.
I do not know if it is because Bradesco bought HSBC and has all my records approved by BB years ago. (2 years straight of providing account info and tax filings), knock on wood it went through in 24 hours.
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Wow, just wow. Do you know what it takes for a Brazilian to retire and immigrate to the USA? Brazil is an easy and open country by comparison. In fact, the USA does not have a retirement visa, nor have there ever been plans to create a retirement visa or path to a "green card". Even for an American to marry and bring a woman from say a slightly difficult country like China legally into the USA, either by K1 or K3 visa can take several years of paperwork, and expect it to cost upwards now of $10,000 US dollars today, (I am an immigrant to the USA and have helped a number of others do all of their immigration paperwork, I have also given free US Citizenship courses for many, many years). To the best of my knowledge, the VITEM XIV visa process for retirement has not changed since the VIPER visas ended in 2017. The process is quite clearly laid out and well organized. Yes, it has to be renewed, as do most VITEM visas. https://sistemas.mre.gov.br/kitweb/data … .pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/travel … html
Now I know any big city, anywhere in the world, can be dangerous, God knows I have done my share of traveling, but our apartment in Brazil is in the middle of downtown SP. I walk alone, even in the evenings against my Brazilian wife's better judgment, and in my 14-years, I have never seen a problem, yes, of course I know there are problems. Mind you, I do not look Brazilian at 6'4" and very Scandinavian white, so I do not blend in, I rather stand out and up in a crowd of Brazilians. Now I am not so naive as to think crime does not exist, especially at ATMs at night, late-night street intersections at red stop-lights, etc., but compared to Baltimore, New Orleans, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, Acapulco, Shanghai, Bejing, Caracus, Одеса, (Odesa), Moscow, and even London, I feel safer walking along Paulista. I have never heard of anyone in our apartment building ever having a problem with theft etc. since we have owned it. In my life of travel, I have had fully automatic weapons pointed at me, just as a tourist, being a tourist, not being robbed, four times, in three different countries, not in Brazil.
With today's ease of money transfers and low or no-fee credit cards for foreign exchange purchases, I am not sure why people still want to carry a lot of cash while they travel. With regard to bringing money into Brazil, let me give you a story as a comparison. On one trip to Ukraine, upon arrival in Одеса, I was asked if I was carrying any Gryvnya, their currency. Indeed, I had 400 Gryvnya with me leftover from a prior trip, about $4 US dollars at that time, enough for my taxi ride to my hotel. Immediately, two military police, armed with fully automatic AK-47s pointed at me, pulled me out of line, and into an interrogation room where I spent the next two hours being questioned, over my carrying $4 US dollars in their currency.
No place is perfect, and God knows, the more places I have traveled to, the more places and cultures I have realized I need to see and experience. Yes, we all need to find the place that suits us as individuals, our needs, and our lifestyles
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@Getting on
On number 2... not sure where you get your information!
3) Bringing Money into Brazil
There is no limit on the amount of money a Brazilian or a foreign traveler may bring into Brazil.
However, if a traveler carries a total of R$ 10.000,00 (ten thousand reais) or more, whether in cash, checks, or traveler’s cheques, and whether in reais, dollars, or other foreign currencies, he/she is required to declare that amount upon entry in Brazil.
Submission of such declarations will not have any tax implications in Brazil.
Copies of the “Currency Carry-On Declaration Form” can be obtained either from the airline/boat carrier transporting the passenger, or at the entry port in Brazil, or downloaded from
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Canin
This is true, but bringing in $R 10.000,00 and having a CPF and/or PR. It will be noted most of the time. ( Agent will take your declaration to the RF agent and noted it in the RF system or ask you to go to the RF window.)
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Does anyone know if there is a requirement to transfer in money each month if you get an investor visa by buying real estate of at least one million reais? I was under the impression that investors who meet the minimum investment can pretty much come and go as they please. Any insight or experience on this note is much appreciated, as I've decided against the retiree visa. Also, do investors have to worry about double taxation as long as they spend less than six months per year in Brazil, don't have significant ties like kids in school, Brazilian spouses, etc. Thanks!
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@Getting on My wife is from Salvador and I have experienced the same thing. I do not trust many people there. Been coming to Brazil for over 30 years. Everyone will rip you off if they can, including her family. I want to move to Brazil, I am a permanent resident. But she wants to live in Salvador, I want Florianopolis. Before I move to Salvador, I will just stay in the states, I feel safe in Florianopolis and most of Santa Catarina, but not Bahia...
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404/18/22 @mosknows
Totally with you on Salvador.
If your wife really wants to be within reach of family, and you don't want them THAT close, you could do a lot worse than Aracaju, the capital of neighboring Sergipe, as a compromise. It's about 200 miles but a world away from Salvador. Brazil's second oldest planned capital, but with several interesting colonial cities nearby, it's one of the safest capitals in the Northeast, with a low cost of living, long, beautiful beaches, and about 300 sunny days a year.
And one thing that Sergipanos pride themselves on is NOT being Baianos. 
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Yeah for saftey , Pernambuco 10 people being murdered a day and I am sure those statistics are lowered to an extent. Not sure what the rest of brazil is. If your primary concern is saftey, northeast is hit +- miss, Just be humble everywhere you go
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moosheadlaw,
Good question as to having to transfer money. To me, you met the requirements and have invested your money meets the requirement, but additional funds might be needed in your investments.
I am not one to give any tax advice. That should be discussed before your investment. Brazil and possibly have tax codes somewhere hidden in the laws in BR and CA,
Not sure about CA and Brazil tax treaty.
I was going to rent our condo that I purchased, but many advised me I would need to report any income to the US and Brazil. I decided to let the kids live there free.
Hopefully, someone will come in and help.
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104/18/22 @mooseheadlaw -- residency based on investment
I agree with Texanbrazil that your read of the visa requirements seems consistent and logical, and I'm not aware of anything official in Portuguese that would contradict it.
As always, I recommend finding a local tax advisor for Brazilian taxation matters. Since you'll probably be getting an attorney to help you set up your investment anyway, that person may be a good resource, or be able to recommend someone who is.
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Wow, this is a thread worth of a lot of fodder....
My 5 cents ( take it with a grain of salt, I am a real estate broker practicing in Sao Paulo ).
Unlike Mexico, Costa Rica, Colombia, Ecuador, Brazil is not a place that caters to the Golden Age crowd. And by the way, Mexico is pulling its red carpet, by upping the requirements on income to grant long term VISA.
Most people who choose Brazil to retire, they do so under the influence of their spouses, most likely a Brazilian. A very few might have a venture in mind. And a few, will relocate so they can sow their wild oats, and engage in some mating.
Post WWII, Brazil, along with the US, Canada, and Argentina, used to be a destination for Europeans and Asians escaping stricken poverty and wars. So true to the nature of their migration, these folks did well here, as they came here to make a life for themselves.
Even at this day, many emigrees do well in Brazil, but again, they done so in contrast with the lack of resources their former countries availed them. Refugees, mostly.
In Sao Paulo, is not hard to find Chinese, Koreans, Haitians, Bolivians, Peruvians, Argentinians, Africans that actually improved their lot. Some Europeans made quite well here, because they might've found something they did not have back home where they could focus their energies and improve their lot. But it all come at cost of personal sacrifice, and being oblivious to the political climate. Short, simple, and sweet, nose on the grindstone. Everything else, amounts to distraction.
For well off Americans and Europeans, that is not a place they will get used to, once the feeling of being in some vacationland evaporates. Some Europeans do ok here, the French and Italians, for the argument's sake. Americans, rarely.
If there is one thing, and this is true specially strong amongst Americans, that eludes the expats on a quest for a perfect place to retire..... They often chose your typical paradise type of locales, and particularly those locales, lack the infra-structure to accommodate the Golden Age lot. The rent might be cheap, off season essentials such as groceries might be affordable, but Health Care is substandard, Public Transportation is almost non existent, and most local yokels don't speak your language.
Also the business climate here can be quite cutthroat, and I've seen my fair share of Americans who lost money in their ventures here. Out here, you have to mind the store, deal with local's poor work ethic, confusing laws, and an arcane tax code. And the worse part is, most of them jump at it, with not experience on how to run a business locally. The easy ones to spot are the ones who are always plugging spreadsheets to look at projections, etc. Bad juju.
There are places, where you can actually relocate, settle, and get a decent quality of life, affordable and quality health care., But it is not in places like Rio de Janeiro, and seldom by the Northeast Coast.
Sao Paulo's city might have the variety when it comes to health care, but you do so stay here at the expense of a higher cost of living. And quite frankly, retirees, don't want to migrate to Sao Paulo to deal with the same set of problems they dealt back home.
Within the States of Sao Paulo, Parana, Santa Catarina, Goias, and possibly Minas Gerais, you will find a better balance in terms of quality of life and a low cost of living. For most part, these are second and third tier cities. Again, no red carpet to retirees, very hard to spot English speakers
Sao Paulo State
-Sao Jose dos Campos ( Aviation Industry )
-Taubate ( good schools, quaint, some decent economic activity )
-The Greater Campinas and its satellite cities such as Sumare, Indaiatuba, Holambra ( strong Dutch heritage) , Hortolandia, Valinhos, Vinhedo, Nova Odessa .
-Ribeirao Preto ( along Campinas, a strong health care industry )
-Sao Jose do Rio Preto.
-Sorocaba ( strong manufacturing sector )
-Santos ( port City by the coast line )
-Piracicaba - Great Methodist University Campus. Neat city. Diversified and prosperous economy.
-Araraquara
-Americana ( this was once an enclave where Southern Farmers fled after the American Civil War and restarted their lives. A few made back to the US. As a result of this migration, around this Town a strong Cotton harvesting cluster grew, and to this day, it has a strong textile sector )
-The ABC region, right outside Sao Paulo
-Mogi das Cruzes ( lots of Nisseis and Sanseis there )
-If you want to get away from the hustle and bustle, the South Shore, by Cananeia is a good place to consider.
Parana
Curitiba, the state capital, and know for urbanist build outs . Lots of Lithuanian, Polish, Italian, Japanese, Ukranian heritage. Lots of universities.
Ponta Grossa
Paranagua ( Port City )
Maringa and Cambara ( lots of Japanese descendants there
Londrina
Foz do Iguacu . think of as a lesser version of Buffalo, NY
Santa Catarina
Blumenau ( strong German influence on architecture, culinary, and customs ), a force to reckon on software development
Joinville - Strong manufacturing heritage.
Crisciuma - A coat town formerly.
Florianopolis - State Capital by the Sea. City is actually an island connected to the mainland.
Lots of other small towns with a close knit community.
Rio Grande do Sul
Caxias do Sul
Pelotas
Novo Hamburgo
Rio Grande
Santa Maria ( college town by the way )
Minas Gerais
Southern part of state is decent,
Juiz de Fora
Ouro Preto ( the entire city is landmarked, and lots of college students there, if you are into arts and crafts, there is a place for you. ).
Mariana - same as above
Rio de Janeiro. Forget the city., Climb the mountains and go to Petropolis.
There are some Northeast Cities that are ok to set residence, namely....
Fortaleza, Ceara's capital
Belem, Para's Capital
Manaus , if you don't mind the rainy season. The Free Trade Zone is slowly getting mutted.
Natal - Rio Grande do Norte. Americans tend to like out there.
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204/20/22 @sprealestatebroker -- a lot of excellent suggestions there! They reminded me of one more caution for potential retirees. Sidewalks in Brazil are frequently terrible, when they exist at all, and this is something that the mobility-challenged or those who sense that situation coming on need to evaluate, quite literally, on the ground before tying themselves down to a location.
Over the past several years Brazilian cities have been pretty good about installing curb cutouts (although some of them are still unclear on the concept and put them in strange places), but the sidewalks they lead to are often unsafe to walk on without close attention, or to use a scooter on. In hilly cities like Manaus, Belo Horizonte -- anywhere in Minas, really -- pavements are often slippery when wet, and a sidewalk on a grade can often give way without warning or special marking to between one and four steps, or even a whole flight of stairs, without so much as a rail. Even on the flat, though, inattentiveness can lead to sprained ankles or worse in many cities.
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1@sprealestatebroker
Hmmm, as an older, well educated guy from Europe, who's spent most of his life in business in the USA now retiring alone to Brazil after 15-years of traveling here, I pretty much find your comments quite wrong, and generally offensive. And, your bragging about being a realtor in Brazil? Now THAT'S FUNNY
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I too agree with ab3.
Just a couple of weeks ago I visited the RF offices. Guess what, accessible ramps crumbled. No way a wheelchair could use. Next, I went to visit a family member In the SUS hospital. The handrails were completely broken and just wobbled.
Many of the "Centro" sidewalks & ramps are broken due to the original trees that were planted have made them a mess.
I have not noticed one "scooter" being used here in downtown Foz.
Now kudos go to Itaipu. They have spent millions $R on building walkways, bikes, and ramps on the northside of Foz. They have painted bike lanes on some existing ruas, but no way would II use them. (lipstick on a pig is still a pig)
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All interesting observations and comments but let me say that I came to live in Brazil and not some Euro-American vision of how it should be. I came here not only for the passion of a person who changed my world view some 40+ years ago, but also because of a passion for the essence of Brazil that I think is lost on most foreigners and even a lot of Brazilians.
Just now I awoke to the chatter of the House Wrens outside of my open window (the Chalk-browed Mockingbird singing under the native trees across the street) in the glow of an orange sky rising to the peaks leading to the Borborema Plateau. I will have a breakfast filled with Brazilian fruits, tapioca and coffee before starting my daily routines which have little to do with the routines of my beloved Wisconsin. I will encounter challenging ideas and perspectives throughout the day as I struggle [still after 40+ years] to comprehend the nuances that make Brazil such a different place than the world I exchanged for the privilege to live here.
It has not been without challenges but the journey is much more than the destination.
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@sprealestatebroker
I think that almost everything you wrote isn’t typical for Brasil, but typical for expats who expect to go live somewhere nice, but aren’t willing to learn about the country, people and especially the language.
I’ve seen many expats in SE Asia who didn’t even know a few words of the local language, other than Hello and Thank you. How do you expect you will feel in an environment where you have to find other expats to be able to have a conversation? Excluded, that’s how you’ll feel, and rightly so.
It’s not a coincidence that you mentioned French and Italian expats, because these languages are very similar to Portuguese, very easy to learn.
Just my two cents…
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2After corresponding for 5 years, the first time I came to meet my Brazilian girlfriend, she traveled 500 miles to meet me at the airport so that she could help me with the land journey to her house. I found out later that in the airport she was absolutely penniless, she bet everything that I would be there and that I would be attracted to her and that I would take care of her. I happen to be that kind of man but many aren't.
Four years later, she is the first woman that I have found anywhere who commits 100% to the relationship, after 50 years of searching. Non-stop. Day-to-day she cooks three hot meals a day, often 4 or 5 dishes, sweeps the entire house, cleans the bathrooms, bends her back over a large tub in the yard to wash our clothes, and they come out cleaner than I have ever seen before.
Spends my money to make the house nicer for me. She will do absolutely anything I ask of her. All she asks is fidelity, but since she is head and shoulder above any other woman in the world, that's too easy.
The first driving reason that I want to move to Brazil is that USA hegemony is collapsing. I got an advanced education in history, economic and technical, so I've known for 50 years that the USA empire would eventually disintegrate. In the last twenty years the handwriting has been on the wall, and these days there are plenty of other people around who talk about the specifics.
Russia fights all wars the same way, just as the US fights all wars basically using the same strategy. Russia cannot lose this one. Its not a matter of whose military is the biggest or strongest or has the most powerful weapons. Its the quartermaster. Its the supplies. Just as Napoleon captured Moscow only to find that there was no firewood at all, no water, no food for his army. Today its about the oil, and the natural gas, and the fertilizer, the nickel, the coal, the iron ore and steel, its the wheat and the uranium. The European Markets and also, interestingly enough the Japanese markets are caving in because those countries cannot survive without the Russian commodities on the market. The USA, being boss, can still get what it needs but it cannot survive when Japan and Europe go under. More people everyday are understanding things that I have been saying for decades.
My fiancee is happy to live anywhere in the world that I choose, she trusts my wisdom. I choose rural Brazil....the people still have skills that Americans have utterly lost. They can raise chickens, and kill them and prepare them for lunch. They know how to ride horseback and harness and shoe and care for horses and mules, and to make and use carts to carry goods to market. They know how to sew, my girlfriend makes clothes to fit me that are just excellent.
they all raise fruits and vegetables. They know how to cook over an open fire and how to treat meat to preserve it without refrigeration, and they can cope without electricity, they can certainly cope without air conditioning!
I suppose this comment will be blocked for being "political", contrary to the propaganda. I have no problem with anybody who still wants to try to support the regime in power, all I ask is a little wiggle room to escape. Its a constant struggle for me to do the things that need to be done to get ready, while the authorities constantly try to block me. This collapse has been coming a long time and it is here, now. I will survive, regardless.
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304/24/22 sprealestatebroker often tends to accentuate the negative; in this case, when so many Europeans and North Americans fall head over heels in love with Brazil and tend to see nothing by rainbows and unicorns, I think that a few drops of realism are not only welcome, but needed.
On another thread this weekend, Texanbrazil answered a question for a (relative) newcomer about the murder of the former Brazil Expert, James Woodward. James died about a year before I returned to Brazil this time, so we never met. I wish we would have. I only know him from his expat posts, which were consistently outstanding.
Nevertheless, I think of James every day. His posts show a deep, detailed knowledge of Brazil, and a profound sympathy for and understanding of Brazilian culture. We have a lot in common, and I hold his life and death up as an object lesson for me, because neither his knowledge nor his love could save him.
It's easy, loving Brazil as much as many of us do, to assume that it loves us back. It doesn't. It's tempting to think that, the more we feel "abrasileirado" on the inside, that we become less vulnerable and visible on the outside. We don't. Old Brazil hands aren't less prone to becoming overconfident and ending up in the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong company. We're more likely to make that mistake, if we're not constantly attentive.
We live on a volcano, and it's as unwise to forget that as it is to let it obsess us.
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Ab3 has seen it all! Of course, Brazil wants retirees. Now does a retiree want or like Brazil?
I did not enter on a retiree visa, but I am retired. At first, it was rough, but after giving to the community I met many officials and all have made me feel welcome and needed.
Just this last Christmas charity drive I met with the leaders and we talked about me matching donations up to a limit. They had not thought about this approach, We exceeded their goal by 75%. Over 200 families had a traditional Christmas dinner with presents for all children.
They loved the concept and will do it again.
I am not "tooting my horn", what it did was open up our city to new ideas and become knowledgeable about ideas, and helped me become a member of the community. You can not just retire in Brazil and do nothing because as ab3 mentioned, it can be difficult in accepting Brazil.
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@Inubia I don't find your comments 'political', but note that you seemed more intent on finding a live-in cook and housemaid than a wife. I hope you give her a day off.
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