Working in Switzerland with a German residency permit

I would suggest you read through official websites like BAMF which is the German Immigration authority. And from many of your questions, to do the same for the Swiss Immigration site, which I am not familiar with. One hears sometimes of some special exception to nearly every rule but no – except being married to a German spouse or having a blue card, there is no standard way of speeding up or buying a Niederlassungserlaubnis and having been born in Germany doesn't change that. And no, one does not get around the rules to obtain a blue card and the salary threshold is not the only limitation. One could get paid a million a year and even be a doctor in some fields and not get a blue card. They are specifically meant to help recruit foreigners that have specific skills that are in high demand.

A spouse of a German can get Niederlassungserlaubnis or even citizenship in as short as 3 years. Not being married to a German, one needs 8 years for citizenship but can shorten this by a year if they have outstanding German skills – but I have yet to see this defined. One needs B1 regardless so exceptional is likely C1.

In more recent years they have added a caveat that one born in Germany to non-EU parents who have legally lived the previous 8 years in Germany will be given citizenship. You are too old and don't have the required years for that. And giving a shorter pathway to Niederlassungserlabnis is not somehow given as a consolation prize.

And one should know that even a Niederlassungserlaubnis is not permanent. One often, even on official sources, reads about “permanent residency” which is misleading. Unrestricted is a better term. It means one can continue and stay without limit but it is considered abandoned and is annulled after some time if one leaves Germany; after just a year for an Unbefristeteaufenthaltserlaubnis. For a Niederlasungserlaubnis it can also be cancelled after a year unless one can show they intended to return and prove financial ability to support themselves without assistance. The time period out of the country can be up to 5 years if I remember correctly if one were working/living in another EU country. But again, it is not actually permanent.

And such residency status allows the person free travel as a tourist in the rest of Schengen but NOT necessarily a right to work or study. You seem to be placing a huge assumption on getting the right to work in Switzerland this way but I don't know that it will work. And I don't know about Switzerland but Germany has recently relaxed the rules for non-EU people getting a work visa. Companies no longer have to first prove that they could not find a EU national to fulfill a job. The reality is that nearly no country wants unskilled workers; they want people with degrees and job experience in demanded fields. If so, one will likely be able to get a job and the permission – if they speak the needed languages.   

You mention not being able to get a job in Switzerland with a Canadian passport  but you were a student. I'm not sure how Switzerland does it but in Germany foreign students are limited to 20 hours/week work. Full-time work is of course a violation of the purpose of a study visa. But if one completes a degree in Germany then they are given 18 months to find a job in their field bypassing the normal visa/work permit procedure and hassles.

I would think that your problem in Switzerland was not really the Canadian passport per se but that you were on a study rather than a work visa. But it is probably worth inquiring if Switzerland doesn't also give opportunities to graduates of their Universities? If so, you might merely have had to complete your studies there to have the allowance to work. But the idea of renouncing Canadian citizenship will NOT bring anything because there is no punishment for having such a citizenship. It's not the matter of having the wrong citizenship but a lack of having the right one (EU).

Ok thank you for your explanations. I will if you don't mind respond point-by-point and clarify and comment on  a few things.

1) "Not being married to a German, one needs 8 years for citizenship but can shorten this by a year if they have outstanding German skills – but I have yet to see this defined. One needs B1 regardless so exceptional is likely C1."

I heard that it can be shortened to 6 years even, If that's the case, I would fight to have it shortened to 5 years. As I said, I have a UK work colleague who's been in Germany since 2014 not even working this whole time and is getting hers at the end of the year. I don't really understand how that's possible. Is it 7 years from the moment a person arrives in Germany or 7 years after you begin working in Germany (in my case it would mean getting German citizenship sometime in 2027 then)? Because if it's 7 years after you began working in Germany then it makes no sense to me that someone from the UK who came to Germany in 2014 and didn't even work this entire time is getting her German citizenship at the end of 2020.

2) "For a Niederlasungserlaubnis it can also be cancelled after a year unless one can show they intended to return and prove financial ability to support themselves without assistance. The time period out of the country can be up to 5 years if I remember correctly if one were working/living in another EU country. But again, it is not actually permanent."

So can a Niederlassungerlaubnis be cancelled after one year or not or is it after 5 years if one leaves Germany and goes to work elsewhere in the EU? Obviously if I were to leave Germany after obtaining the permit, I would stay within the EU, I wouldn't go back to Canada. In fact, I have no desire to go back to Canada.

3) "And I don't know about Switzerland but Germany has recently relaxed the rules for non-EU people getting a work visa. Companies no longer have to first prove that they could not find a EU national to fulfill a job."

I know, that's why me and so many other non-EU people were able to even come to Germany in the first place. That's why you have so many Canadians, Americans, Australians etc. coming to Germany and not to say Austria or Denmark. If those rules weren't relaxed, I and many others would still be stuck in their respective non-EU countries. It's insane how difficult it is.

4) "The reality is that nearly no country wants unskilled workers; they want people with degrees and job experience in demanded fields. If so, one will likely be able to get a job and the permission – if they speak the needed languages."

That in all honesty is the least of my worries. I have a bachelor degree, I speak 4 languages and am actively re-learning German.  If skill was the only requirement, I would basically be president of a EU country by now.

5) "You mention not being able to get a job in Switzerland with a Canadian passport  but you were a student."

In Switzerland as a student, only people from EU states (with EU passports) are allowed to work. I wasn't able to stay after my studies because my canadian passport prevented me from finding a job and I was unable to even worked a limited number of hours there as a student due to my canadian passport.

6) "It's not the matter of having the wrong citizenship but a lack of having the right one (EU)."

Yes I know, that's the great tragedy in all this. That combined to the fact that I was born in Germany and it means absolutely nothing.

Is the Niederlassungerlaubnis tied to the person's passport (citizenship) or not? Because if so, it means I have to at least keep my canadian citizenship for the next 5 years.

Sorry but while I understand your desires, your responses are practically delusional. No, the time to get citizenship cannot be shortened from 8 to 6 years and the idea you can “fight” to get it shorted to 5 is just unfounded. This is pure wishful thinking on your part. But gain, you would theoretically have the possibility to either legitimately marry a German or actually qualify for a blue card.

And while I am not an expert on Switzerland, I found multiple reliable sources saying that one on a student visa can work up to 15 hours a week but only after having been in the country for 6 months unless you happen to already hold a master's degree. These are the conditions for non-EU students. EU students already have a right to work. This isn't as generous as the German system but a pretty standard condition in most Western European countries.

I am not sure if renouncing your Canadian citizenship would affect your residency status but I don't understand what possible advantage you would have to do so. It would burn your bridges to ever return to Canada and will not get you any advantage in Germany or Switzerland. But if you would nationalize as German then you would then have to give up Canadian citizenship. Usually one has to give up all non-EU citizenships to become German but many exceptions are made for people coming from countries with civil turmoil or war thus you might be able to retain Bosnian citizenship. You would have to ask the local immigration officials to know for sure.
 
And the condition that being born in Germany doesn't mean automatic citizenship is actually standard in most of the world other than the Americas. This is one of the reasons the 8 year residency of the parents exception was adopted. Beforehand, kids could be even third or 4th generation German born without having German citizenship! Imagine how it is when you only have a citizenship of a country you don't know and neither you nor even your parents might not speak the language!

The thing about a UK person getting citizenship is that the UK was in the EU until Brexit went through. This is the reason there was a flood of UK citizens nationalizing in Germany the last few years. And possibly a person who had their application in before Brexit is finalized will be given the same conditions but one applying now for example won't. Unless they make a specific agreement, future German nationalization for a Brit will take longer and mean giving up their British citizenship to do so.

I am simply assessing my options, that's all. If I was born in France for example, I would be a EU citizen now. I think being born in Germany should at least count somewhere down the line in some way. I am not responsible for being forced to leave Germany and neither are my parents who were law-abiding citizens in Germany and have been law-abiding citizens in Canada. If it were up to them, they would have stayed in Germany and if it were up to me I would have prefered to grow up somewhere in the EU looking at my pathetic situation today.

"The thing about a UK person getting citizenship is that the UK was in the EU until Brexit went through. This is the reason there was a flood of UK citizens nationalizing in Germany the last few years."

I don't understand why German authorities were willing to suddenly gift citizenship to so many UK citizens living in Germany on the sole basis of Brexit. I believe what you're writing but it doesn't make any sense to me. Don't you find that absurd and incredibly unfair though? Someone coming from the UK in Germany in 2014 who hasn't even worked full-time in those 6 years gets german citizenship just like that and me being born in Germany I have next to no rights here and will likely wait years to get my legal documents.

No I don't really have much understanding that you question such rules. Not sensible to compare to a country that uses the system of jus soli to determine citizenship since it is actually not common in Europe.

And Germany did not just give lots of Brits some sort free pass to citizenship; they took advantage of the rules as EU citizens before it was too late, nothing more nothing less. They also had to meet all of the requirements.

And yes, belonging to a union has advantages; of course the EU countries have special conditions for citizens of other EU countries. That was the point of creating the EU. Some people are born rich others poor, some as EU citizens others not. That's life.

And many third world people would love to have your situation. You got to come to Western Europe and even get Canadian citizenship, This is but a dream for about 1 billion people. And you have a pathway to citizenship say in Germany but are just impatient. I won't go into all of the details but I had to wait 15 years to get Niederlassungserlaubnis in Germany and then another 10 years before getting citizenship. But it doesn't concern me if others had the chance to do it faster.

"And Germany did not just give lots of Brits some sort free pass to citizenship; they took advantage of the rules as EU citizens before it was too late, nothing more nothing less. They also had to meet all of the requirements."

It does feel like they gave some people a free pass when someone can get citizenship after 6 years of living in Germany despite working maybe 3-4 years out of those 6 years. Which "rule" allows that? On the other hand, I'm born here and have to wait in line for years to come including work non-stop for 5 years straight and even that won't probably be enough.

"And many third world people would love to have your situation."

Many third world people are not born in Germany nor do they have the ties to Europe that I have. Still, in some specific cases, it's even arguably easier to get a EU citizenship as a third world refugee than it is as a non-EU person from North America because refugees get privileged status somewhat (I speak from experience). Also having a Canadian citizenship from a legal point of view is worth absolutely nothing outside of Canada. It has no advantages whatsoever so it's far less impressive than it seems. Not a single authority cares about the solid reputation that Canada may have on the world stage, it's not a criteria for anything.

"And you have a pathway to citizenship say in Germany but are just impatient."

A pathway that will last at least 6 years (if I'm extremely lucky) and possibly up to 8 years. Those are the best years of my life spent mostly waiting and meeting all the insane requirements in the meantime like keeping a job consistently for that amount of time. You would be impatient too if you were in my shoes today AND had my goals and ambitions.

I still don't fully understand if the niderlassungserlaubnis is tied to the (canadian) citizenship in my case or not and what are the criteria for keeping it after you get it.

Sorry but your responses are getting ridiculous. Whether third world people are born in German or not is irrelevant. You are whining although being quite privileged. You are not from Germany but got to come here and you got to go to Canada. Now you cry not to get citizenship in an unprecedented number of years although you don't qualify. And sorry but there have been tens of thousands of immigrants especially Turks who are lived here their whole lives and even for multiple generations without getting citizenship. They have more ties to Germany than you, having been born here!

And not only is Canada one of the more desired countries in the world for immigration it is untrue that Canadian citizenship doesn't mean anything elsewhere.  Canadians for example can come to the EU and many other advanced countries without needing a visa and are much less scrutinized for immigration like many third world country citizens. Your claims are pure fantasy. Your impatience is arrogance beyond belief. And like I said, I lived in Germany for over 25 years before getting citizenship, so stop with the nonsense about being in your shoes, it's just insulting.

I tried to give you factual advice and my perspective on things but I am really done with you. I have no respect for such arrogance. Do what you want since you seem to think you know everything better and think you have privileges over everyone else. And if you think Canada and now Germany are so useless then just go back to Bosnia.

Your assumptions are a little insulting to say the least especially since you write things I never wrote myself. I never wrote or insinuated that Germany is useless, I merely pointed out facts, explained my personal situation and looked for ways to improve it like any normal human being would. If I thought Germany was useless, I would have stayed in Canada. I like Germany, that's absolutely not the point here.

I don't cry about anything and I don't think I have privileges over anyone (actually it's quite the opposite when you're non-EU, you should know that yourself by now). I am merely seeking advice and to be honest most of my initial questions have not even been answered at all or answered properly by you. In fact, you have failed to point to me any serious privilege that comes with having my passport (and no, working in Germany with a canadian passport is not a privilege when most people in the developed world and even people from the third-world get to do it as well rather easily if they want to especially if they are skilled). Having a canadian citizenship means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things and from a legal point of view. You would be shocked at how many job opportunities I was denied because of my canadian citizenship, how many things I was told I could not apply for or do because of said citizenship including right here in Germany. I lost those jobs solely on a piece of paper, not because I didn't have the qualifications for them or because I wasn't good enough in the interview. I know because the people in charge of those companies told me so and explained that they simply couldn't legally hire me. We all try to find solutions and alternatives to make our lives better, that's really all this is about.

That part about Canadian citizens being able to go to many developed countries without needing a visa is completely and utterly false at least when it comes to the EU. As a Canadian, I can only stay in the EU up to 90 days without needing to apply for a visa (which is nothing) and even that will change once ETIAS comes around. If I want to work, study, live in Germany I cannot do it without a visa while other EU citizens can. Citizens from 27 countries in Europe, mind you. That's at least 27 countries ranked better than Canada from a legal point of view which is huge. Also, your point about not being scrutinized as much if you are canadian is only true if you are originally from Canada. if you aren't but happen to have a canadian passport, you get often as much scrutiny as people from the third-world. That's something you likely never experienced and will like never have the misfortune and profound displeasure of experiencing.

Finally, I am absolutely not responsible for you getting your German citizenship after 25 years especially since you didn't care as much about it as I do now and clearly didn't have my short-term and long-term ambitions. If you did, you would understand my situation much better instead of telling me I have "arrogance". Ultimately, you cannot attack me or blame me for wanting to improve my situation and for having ambitions.

Sorry but you have merely doubled down on nonsensical claims and continued to clearly show your privileged attitude. And it is impossible you were denied any job due to a Canadian passport. It can only be that you wanted to get a job and immigrate to a country where it turned out to only be possible if you had a EU one.

Again, it is a clear difference to lack having the proper citizenship than to be punished for having a particular one. A Canadian passport is as advantageous as a US, Australian, or any one from a first world country. The comparable strength that the passport is as good as they come, so hearing one complain about it is laughable. Tell your sob story to someone from Iran or Mali and see how much sympathy you get. Or tell other Bosnians how poor you only to have a Canadian citizenship and a job in Germany but OMG you will need some years to get citizenship. The only thing is that it is not a EU one which would of course be the best if one wants to live in the EU. But to expect the same benefits of being a EU citizen when one is not is just crazy. This is the very definition of privileged thinking.

And like I mentioned already, getting rid of the Canadian citizenship has no conceivable advantages. But go ahead and do it since you are so convinced. There is really no helping one with your attitude.

At this point, you are playing around with semantics, I was very clear in what I wrote. Having a Canadian passport means not having an EU passport in most cases, means having a passport that is worth less than the passport of 27 other countries in the world at least. If the Canadian passport was so amazing, I would have gotten those jobs solely on the good value of the Canadian passport but let's be fair that passport is worth next to nothing outside of Canada. You can be an engineer and still not find  anyone in the EU willing to hire you if you don't have an EU passport. When you were born in the EU like I was, it is deeply disheartening to say the least. If it weren't for Germany, I would still be stuck in Canada wondering where to go from there. If you want to continue denying that, that's on you.

You have failed to show me how that so-called strength of the Canadian passport is genuinely useful outside of Canada and is genuinely useful in the EU especially. I on the other hand have given you multiple examples of all the problems this passport has caused me. You are relying on Canada's reputation worldwide which is worth nothing from a legal point of view and it is ultimately that point of view which matters.

Someone from Iran or Mali coming to Europe as a refugee gets preferential treatment due to refugee status which in some cases also means getting EU citizenship much quicker, we've been over this already. Also, for the record, a lot of people from Mali are in some way elligible for French citizenship or have relatives in France that can help them out (around 200,000 Malians live in France). As for Bosnians, a lot of them were able to stay in the EU after the mid 1990's and their children today have a much better legal status than I could ever dream of having anytime soon. They are not wasting the best years of their lives waiting.

I don't expect the same benefits as an EU citizen right away, I do however expect to get them sooner rather than later which really shouldn't be too much to ask especially when you were born in the EU. I expect that to count somewhere down the line. If that makes me entitled then so be it, I will not apologize or feel bad for having ambitions.

Tripling down on nonsensical arguments.  Canada has one of the most powerful passports in the world. Comparing  the lack of EU benefits for a non-EU citizen is still foundless.

And now you suddenly claim to have been born in the EU! Why then does your profile show you to be from Bosnia which is NOT in the EU! Not when you were born and not now. You admitted to having arrived in Germany as a child rather than be born here. Maybe if you had actually been born in Germany then you would have a possible ground to complain about since thousands are born here without being given citizenship.

And you are just making assumptions about asylum-seekers, which you were once one yourself! This sounds rather hypocritical and xenophobic. But actually almost nobody from Iran or Mali gets refugees status. Few countries are considered to have civil conflicts bad enough to qualify. There are people from many poor counties, or countries with serious problems, like Iran and Mali that have little to no chance at asylum.

But if you have any complaints them maybe you should address them to your parents. There was obviously a reason they choose to go to Canada. For millions it has been their dream destination. If they had stayed in Germany and gone through the normal process of getting permanent residency and then citizenship, then you would already have been able to get German citizenship a long time ago. And if your parents didn't get certified as refugees then the alternative to going to Canada would have almost certainly have been to get sent back to Bosnia. Feel free to return there if you think it is so bad here.

You apparently have trouble reading. Literally 4 sentences in my first post I wrote:  "I was actually born in Germany, lived there from birth until the age of 4 before my parents and I were forced to migrate to Canada in the late 1990's." and I spoke about being born in Germany numerous times in other posts as well. If you don't even bother reading what I write, then your "advice" is even more worthless.

My parents chose to go to Canada because there was no other alternatives. If it were up to them, they would have stayed in Germany. I made that very clear as well. I truly wonder what you have been reading this whole time...

I also made it clear I am very happy about Germany as a country, my issue is with citizenship and going to Switzerland eventually. Once again, you showed that you don't bother reading.

You are correct, I somehow overlooked that you claim to be born in Germany.  About that I apologize and stand corrected. If got that wrong.

But many of your other claims are also wrong. That Canadian students can't work in Switzerland - wrong. I already listed the requirements and limitations. That Canada has a weak passport - wrong. That you are entitled to get citizenship in 5 or 6 years - wrong. That people from Iran, Mali  or many other countries have it easy to get refugee status - wrong.

And again, if you really want to get citizenship faster you could legitimately marry a German or educate yourself well enough in the right field to find a job that would qualify yourself for a blue card. It's not that opportunities don't exist - but you fail to meet the standards. Sorry but you can look in the mirror when assigning blame for that.

Or you could simply have some patience and take the pathway actually open to you to get citizenship. Immigration and where one will eventually reside is a life long consideration and why a few more years should make such a difference is not understandable. Like I've mentioned, possibly a billion people on this earth would literally be happy to trade places with you - and for good reasons.

I don't claim to be born in Germany, I was actually born in Germany and would be able to easily prove it to the proper German authority. There would be no reason for me to lie about that especially on a forum who's main goal is to seek advice and especially when that's one of my main arguments towards getting my papers done and ready quicker hopefully. How you managed to overlook that is beyond me and for the record it's making you look bad not me because it makes it seem as if you haven't been reading me properly this whole time while pretending to give me advice.

I wasn't wrong about Canadian students not able to work in Switzerland. They may be allowed to work on paper (how, I still don't know) but in reality they aren't. I applied for many fairly basic student jobs, was meeting all the requirements they were looking for and as soon as they saw my Canadian passport, I never heard back from them. My Swiss roommates warned me this would happen and I spoke to multiple people who told me other non-EU students from so-called modern countries like the US and Canada experienced the same things. Also, my student visa application for Switzerland was initially denied even though I was accepted at the university, paid all the fees, found and paid a student room in a flat. My parents had to hire attorneys to overturn that decision. All of this happened mainly because of my passport so yes Canada has a weak passport. At this point it's not even debatable anymore and my experience alone should tell you that.

"Like I've mentioned, possibly a billion people on this earth would literally be happy to trade places with you - and for good reasons."

And I would be happy to trade places with some 400 to 447 million people in the EU right now so your statement is a non-argument really. I'm sure if most of those skilled people from those countries you love to mention came to Germany and said they want to work, integrate, learn the language etc. they would be accepted fairly easily as evidence by the numerous people from third-world countries that Germany has let in over the last 5 years alone and continues to let in today.

I stated the rules about foreign students getting jobs in Switzerland. Your response is misleading yet revealing when you mention that a US passport has the same problem. Such a weak passport. That's just nonsense, it is just clear that  EU passports have benefits in the EU and Schengen that others don't have. And for travel or immigration to the USA, Mexico and many Caribbean countries, a Canadian passport would be better than an EU one. And qualified students regularly get study visas for Switzerland. If you had complications it was not like due to having a Canadian passport but for other reasons. Sounds like you have persecution complex and a lack of self honesty because sorry, neither the Swiss nor other Europeans have anything against Canadians. 

This whole purpose of this site is to communicate about immigration problems so it is the last place anyone will buy your sob story about the terribleness of a Canadian passport. Many who come here are trying to get to Canada or would gladly do so if possible. Or they would love to hold a Canadian passport to try to get elsewhere rather than a third world one.

The rules are one thing, the reality on the field is a whole other thing. I've been there, I've seen it first hand. It isn't about the EU and the Swiss hating Canadians, it's about the weakness of that passport and the profound obstacles that come with having one. It's about being treated like a second-class citizen and being denied many opportunities in many different ways yet still having to listen to people like you tell me that what I experienced isn't real and basically never happened.

No I didn't have any complications for any reason in Switzerland but for my Canadian passport as I met all the requirements to come to the country legally AND was accepted at the local university but sure keep calling that "persecution complex". All you've done so far is arrogantly dismiss my negative experiences, call them nonsensical to cover up a lack of proper arguments. You didn't even properly read some of my comments as evidence by the fact you completely overlooked that crucial part about being born in Germany. That again says a lot more about you than it does about me.

Sorry but Canada has one of the most powerful passports in the world; ranked number 5 by the most respected source on such things. I am posting some links below so you can stop saying that it is just my opinion. Canadians are treated quite well in most of the world and not second class citizens. And to claim such things on this site where people are specifically concerned with such things is just laughable. Who is arrogant here is clear.

https://visaguide.world/news/canada/can … the-world/https://www.skyscanner.ca/tips-and-insp … l-passport

Yeah so "powerful" that it's almost virtually impossible for someone with a Canadian passport to work anywhere in the EU besides Germany. Very powerful indeed... You seem to have a hard time understanding something that may be truth on paper and everyday reality. Having the fifth most respected passport in the world is irrelevant, rules are not based on how respected a country is or good its reputation worldwide is. If it were, Canadians would be able to rather easily find work anywhere in the EU and not just in Germany. If it were, I wouldn't be here looking for advice.

Trabantlover wrote:

Yeah so "powerful" that it's almost virtually impossible for someone with a Canadian passport to work anywhere in the EU besides Germany.

I know Canadians working in Austria, the UK and France without any difficulty.

Please STOP this senseless discussion and, especially, the many accusations against each other!

Trabantlover, I only want to add the following:
- There is NO sense in arguing against a country's immigration and citizenship rules! Even if they seem unfair from your individual viewpoint, the country is allowed to make them that way and it won't change them just for you. You either accept them or go elsewhere!
- You MAY get a German "Niederlassungserlaubnis" (commonly translated as permanent residency) in 7 years, but this will neither give you any advantage for moving to another country (they will treat you as a Canadian and only a Canadian there!). By law, it will cease, null and void, the moment you leave Germany without the intention to return within the short term (this is commonly considered 6 - 12 months, but longer "temporary" stays abroad are possible after arrangements with the German authorities).
- A residency permit is not tied to your passport (meaning a piece of paper issued by your country), but to the circumstances at the time of your arrival - which includes your citizenship. A residency is a visa, NOT a replacement citizenship. If you renounce your Canadian one, you would be a citizen only of the third country you mentioned in one of your posts. Is that your intention?
- Acquiring German citizenship (after 7 - 8 years of working here) requires giving up all others (AFTER the German one is approved, to avoid becoming stateless!). You'd then still need a work permit or other visa to move to Switzerland.
- Thus if you want to move to Switzerland in the long run, I think you should focus on fulfilling the residency requirements there - not in any other country! (If, in the meantime, you want to live and work in Germany, be glad you get the permits needed to do so - but Germany will not in any way help you move elsewhere.)

Trabantlover wrote:

Yeah so "powerful" that it's almost virtually impossible for someone with a Canadian passport to work anywhere in the EU besides Germany. Very powerful indeed... You seem to have a hard time understanding something that may be truth on paper and everyday reality. Having the fifth most respected passport in the world is irrelevant, rules are not based on how respected a country is or good its reputation worldwide is. If it were, Canadians would be able to rather easily find work anywhere in the EU and not just in Germany. If it were, I wouldn't be here looking for advice.

No, getting a job has to do with job skills, education and experience. People with much weaker passports from third world countries still get jobs and come to Germany - when they have the demanded skills. And Germany like many of the EU countries have implemented the blue card. It is available to all non-EU passport holders - if they qualify. Your limitations are thus due to your lack of qualifications and not your passport. Possibly you are good in whatever  job you do but have chosen the wrong field; one that is not so in demand that it pays enough. Even some kind of doctors will not get a blue card here since there is no shortage.

SimCityAT wrote:

Trabantlover wrote:

Yeah so "powerful" that it's almost virtually impossible for someone with a Canadian passport to work anywhere in the EU besides Germany.

I know Canadians working in Austria, the UK and France without any difficulty.

Yes if they are doctors, biologists, lawyers etc. where they don't compete as much with the local EU market. The others like me have to wait in line and hope that there isn't anyone else in the EU capable of doing our jobs which is almost virtually impossible considering that there are candidates from at least 27 other countries plus from within the country itself. When recruiters in Austria, the UK and France as well as other EU countries see Canada on a CV, they run for the hills because they know the procedure to hire a non-EU is costly, complicated and not worth the hassle especially as they need to prove to their government that they absolutely need that person. I speak from experience, I heard about this and saw all of this first hand.

Trabantlover wrote:

Yes if they are doctors, biologists, lawyers etc. where they don't compete as much with the local EU market. The others like me have to wait in line and hope that there isn't anyone else in the EU capable of doing our jobs which is almost virtually impossible considering that there are candidates from at least 27 other countries plus from within the country itself. When recruiters in Austria, the UK and France as well as other EU countries see Canada on a CV, they run for the hills because they know the procedure to hire a non-EU is costly, complicated and not worth the hassle especially as they need to prove to their government that they absolutely need that person. I speak from experience, I heard about this and saw all of this first hand.

Correct, this describes the situation pretty well. Like basically all governments worldwide, ours want their own people employed and only admit foreigners when there is a skills shortage locally. This is legitimate and, in the eyes of the majority of people who voted for this government, also fair.
A company that does not need your skills will not employ you - why should a country?

So your comment about knowing Canadians working in those countries is completely irrelevant to the topic and especially to my situation. You've just proven me right about the Canadian passport being quite weak in reality otherwise I wouldn't be going through these struggles.

If you call “quite weak” one of the best passports for travelling and living internationally, you must accept that others disagree.
I personally think that borders are a hazzle and nation states should be abolished, so I agree that passports (any of them) are a weakness of humankind.

For traveling yes it's one of the best passports but that's irrelevant to me. You don't put bread on the table by traveling, you also don't progress in your career or achieve your goals and ambition just by traveling (usually). You do however by working and having a passport that doesn't slow you down in every possible way and makes you waste the best years of your life.

If one of the best passports in the world is not good enough for you, then what do you want (other than my abovementioned utopia of a borderless world)?

You have only reconfirmed the fact that it is better to have a EU citizenship within the EU.  This doesn't support the claim a Canadian passport is weak because for a non-EU one it is one of the best in the world. And to act outraged that a non-EU citizen doesn't have the same benefits here as a EU citizen is ridiculous. What would be the advantage of being in the EU if all other countries got the same benefits – without any of the costs. There are also many agreements or unions worldwide for trade and work. Should a German cry that he doesn't get the benefits of NAFTA or SAFTA or AfCFTA?

This seems to have descended into a "why didn't I get the dream job" discussion.

I'm going to repeat something that may bore some, but if you want a decent job anywhere, it does not matter one bit what passport you have, what really matters is 4 things:

Relevant Experience - there is no point in applying for a role where they ask for it and you don't have it.
Relevant Qualifications - particularly for a regulated trade (doctor, engineer etc)
Speak the local language
A bit of luck

The more you tick off, the better your chances; some are lucky, others not - that's life.  There then normally follows the "but how do I get the experience, learn the language etc if they won't employ me?" discussion; to which the answer is simple, they won't, let's not waste our time thinking about it.

The only people who will walk into those dream jobs are those in a shortage profession, looking in a country where they have a shortage, the so-called "skilled-migrant" and I can guarantee you 100% that it matters not one bit which passport you have if they want you, and there is nothing to prevent your visa (criminal activity is the most common one I've come across), they will hire you.  Skilled migrant visas in the countries I know well can happen in days.  I would always defer to Tom and Beppi in things German because although I lived there for many years, we lived in a totally non-German environment.

It's a fact of life that being born in Germany does not impart German nationality to anybody not born of German parents.  My twins were both born in Münster, no German passports for them, but they were born of a Brit father and Dutch mother, so we made sure they have both nationalities and passports; one of the guys that worked for me was a Brit and he had a German wife; they had 3 kids born there, all got German nationality/passports.  We lived in the same street, in the same town at the same time, probably at the same time as your family were moved into Germany - there's a message in there if you care to read it.

My advice is that Switzerland is probably not the easiest country for you and I have no idea why, but if you are being refused every time, there is a reason for it and it's nothing to do with your passport.  So look elsewhere because if you can get the 4 basics I mentioned earlier right, having a Canadian passport really is a bonus; I kick myself for not taking up the job offer I was made in Calgary all those years ago.

Anyway, I do wish you the best in your Expat journey.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

This isn't about getting or not getting a dream job, it's about having a passport that's causing me nothing but problems ever since I came to Europe. All I was trying to say is that you cannot read what I went through, arrogantly dismiss it like some of you have then come here with a straight face and tell me how "wonderful" and "amazing"  the Canadian passport is when it's almost completely worthless in the EU unless you are a doctor, a biologist or something like that which OH SHOCKER most people in most countries aren't. I know, funny how that works.. If it weren't for Germany, I would still be stuck in Canada wondering what to do with my life despite my qualifications, my degree, my knowledge of 4 languages etc.

And yes I do believe being born in Germany should count at some point in the citizenship process as I have legal documents to prove it and have overall more ties to Germany than I do to Canada. It's something I will look into more as well.

What qualifications do you have?

I have a B.A. in communications. Granted, it's not a PhD but it's not exactly a high school diploma either.

I will unsubscribe from this thread now, as the OP seems to be stuck in his view that the world is treating him unfairly and the world must do something about it. That's not how it works and not what I want to read.

Trabantlover wrote:

I have a B.A. in communications. Granted, it's not a PhD but it's not exactly a high school diploma either.

If you want some advice, assuming your German is up to scratch, all you can do is keep trying, but the fact you have a funny accent could be enough to put a lot of businesses off.  Tbh, if you're looking at working in business, at your age you may need to look at an MBA to bolster that, certainly if you're hoping to get any interest from a multinational; it certainly wasn't on the list of desired degrees we looked for in junior managers while I was still working (I retired last year).

I don't have a funny accent, not sure why you would assume that. I don't speak German as well as I did when I was 6 or 7 years old but I speak it with the same tone I did back than so I virtually have no accent in German or in any of the other languages I speak, for that matter. I'm not looking to work in business or in a multinational, I'm not sure why you would assume that either. Working at a newspaper, a local radio, in a PR role or in the tourism industry would do.

It was advice, I'm trying to help, not get involved in another slanging match about who said what when.  My last input, after this, you may wish to go and look elsewhere.  I don't get paid to do this and your attitude stinks.

Accents - probably because most Expats have an accent.  I'm an Expat, I speak Dutch with a Tukker accent, mainly because that's the area of Holland where I learnt it, mixed with my Cockney accent, it makes a difference and locals can hear it and normally goes along the lines of "You speak good Dutch, where did you learn it" because I sound different.  You may think your fantastic, your experience is suggesting there may be a reason why your struggling.

You may not want to work in a multi, but judging by your luck getting into a journalistic career, if you want to stay in Europe, perhaps a different career may help.  I didn't particularly want to either, but it's where I ended up and ended up with a fantastic 2nd career working for a US multi.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

After a bit of thought, it's plain that you're not interested in listening to anybody's advice, so I've recommended the administrators either lock or remove this thread; just so you know who to blame.

Cynic
Expat Team