Visa Runs…..maybe the party is over.

Spoke to an Australian today, he's just completed his 8th visa run .
On return to Vietnam , he was told that was the last E Visa he'll get …..& after leaving VN , will need to wait 12 months to re apply.
He's in a situation trying to offload a property & relocate somewhere else that doesn't require marriage, business ownership, job etc. Good luck finding a genuine “ buyer” in the current market.

A lot of the 30 day visa runners started back early in the year. I know a few up to No 9 now. Maybe Christmas , TET will see the end of that process.   What a time to get organised to shift…..but then again, living in 30 day stints isn't much of an existence.

So anyone that's relying on continuing Visa runs had better have a Plan B in place . 
-@Ontheroad57

Hi,

You have my interest, he has done 8 visa runs, and offloading property? he bought it while on a 30 day visa hoping to stay?

Forgive me for asking just that not many visitors jump in and buy property.

@AndyHCMC

Howdy,

He's been in VN for years.  Remember all the chanting & hoopla a few years back announcing  that foreigners could "own" property....

Well, he dropped $180k on an apartment.

He's retired, no need to work , not interested in marrying anyone , so was , like a lot of us , fly in fly out on 90 day tourist or business visa.

Got a retirement Visa in Thailand lined up, just waiting to sell.......good luck with that

@AndyHCMC
Howdy,
He's been in VN for years. Remember all the chanting & hoopla a few years back announcing that foreigners could "own" property....
Well, he dropped $180k on an apartment.
He's retired, no need to work , not interested in marrying anyone , so was , like a lot of us , fly in fly out on 90 day tourist or business visa.
Got a retirement Visa in Thailand lined up, just waiting to sell.......good luck with that
-@Ontheroad57

Hi,

Makes sense now, so not just 9 months.

It's the most ridiculous visa system that I currently know.

Hope they change there mind and improve it drastically.

@AndyHCMC
Howdy,
He's been in VN for years. Remember all the chanting & hoopla a few years back announcing that foreigners could "own" property....
Well, he dropped $180k on an apartment.
He's retired, no need to work , not interested in marrying anyone , so was , like a lot of us , fly in fly out on 90 day tourist or business visa.
Got a retirement Visa in Thailand lined up, just waiting to sell.......good luck with that
-@Ontheroad57
Hi,

Makes sense now, so not just 9 months.
-@AndyHCMC

I suppose he's lucky in a way….

Theres another problem that can occur after 9 months .   And they arrive kicking & screaming 😜

A few men have got that issue, but having problems getting the TT visa. ( family, bloodline connection etc)

Spoke to an Australian today, he's just completed his 8th visa run .
On return to Vietnam , he was told that was the last E Visa he'll get …..& after leaving VN , will need to wait 12 months to re apply.
-@Ontheroad57

Hey OTR,

It would be helpful if the source of the info could be more precise.

"He was told", "I was told", etc have proven to be mostly unreliable sources in the past.

Was he talking to a visa agent or immigration?

Thanks for clarifying.

O.B.

Again, this 30-day tourist visa policy was announced in late 2019 and there was a lot of discussion and hand-wringing. The "party" was over long ago.

Blast from the past (Jan 2020):

30-day visa time frame

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=880900

Apparently, many people thought it would be forgotten or changed due to the virus thing, but that was always just wishful thinking.

The bottom line is the VNese authorities, for whatever reason, seem to be simply uninterested in long-term tourists or retirees.

Logically, people should have been looking at options and making concrete plans way back when. Many did and are now in other countries in the region, mostly Thailand, Cambodia and Malaysia, that have doable avenues for obtaining long-term visas.

Other than people in special circumstances, such as the guy mentioned in the OP, no one should be doing multiple visa runs hoping that eventually the current policy will be changed. Perhaps it will but don't hold your breath. Make plans and leave.

I left a month and a half ago, and other than buying some Mr. Viet brand ground coffee in the supermarket, haven't given a fig for Vietnam or what's happening there.

Again, this 30-day tourist visa policy was announced in late 2019 and there was a lot of discussion and hand-wringing. The "party" was over long ago.
Blast from the past (Jan 2020):

30-day visa time frame
https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=880900

Apparently, many people thought it would be forgotten or changed due to the virus thing, but that was always just wishful thinking.

The bottom line is the VNese authorities, for whatever reason, seem to be simply uninterested in long-term tourists or retirees.

Logically, people should have been looking at options and making concrete plans way back when. Many did and are now in other countries in the region, mostly Thailand, Cambodia and Malaysia, that have doable avenues for obtaining long-term visas.

Other than people in special circumstances, such as the guy mentioned in the OP, no one should be doing multiple visa runs hoping that eventually the current policy will be changed. Perhaps it will but don't hold your breath. Make plans and leave.

I left a month and a half ago, and other than buying some Mr. Viet brand ground coffee in the supermarket, haven't given a fig for Vietnam or what's happening there.
-@johnross23

Looking at the Elite 5-year visa in Thailand at 600,000 baht it becomes a very expensive exercise.

Spoke to an Australian today, he's just completed his 8th visa run .
On return to Vietnam , he was told that was the last E Visa he'll get …..& after leaving VN , will need to wait 12 months to re apply.
-@Ontheroad57

Hey OTR,

It would be helpful if the source of the info could be more precise.

"He was told", "I was told", etc have proven to be mostly unreliable sources in the past.

Was he talking to a visa agent or immigration?

Thanks for clarifying.

O.B.
-@OceanBeach92107

Suppose the proof of the pudding will be when he applies for online visa #9 then. If he gets it he is quids in. Me personally I look at life like this.....every day is a bonus & worst case I will have another 6 e visas to go. I have already been in contact with visa agent in Cambodia (recommended by a contact on Cambodia Forum) & at 290 usd with proof of minimum income for retirement Visa there I am pretty sure we (Ms My & GOB) can work out something commuting between both countries & a spell in between in Thailand & Bali.

@OceanBeach92107

Gday Gordie,

He got pulled aside at passport control on re-entry to VN.

Said he was simply told he wouldn't be granted another e.visa , and would need to wait 12 months before re applying .   No further discussion.  Basically he's got 30 days to clean out his stuff & move on.

I've met some in Thailand that got punted after only 4 runs ❗️

I get the impression Vietnam Immigration is getting embarrassed by the volume of border runners.   Blogs, forums , media etc……the border run seems to dominate most content. 

I can understand a few Visa runs , in order to finalise affairs or put in place Visas to accommodate yourself ,,,,but there's still masses of foreigners staying “indefinitely “ with visa runs.

Just once a month…they wake up early, grab a Bahn Mi & bottle of water , jump on the public Bus to Moc Bai & $60 worth of E Visas later they're back in the game .   They're back in time for lunch 😀

But at least they're reasonably conscientious in getting a Visa.  I know several back there in VN that haven't had a Visa since Covid hit town.    They live under the radar & have no intention of leaving or travelling anywhere.   One guys passport has even expired. 

Its easy to hide. 

Simply live in a cheap guest house , pay cash & not registered with local Feds.

Get a local kid to supply a SIM card

Western Union for money , or via a friends account.

All of the above require a Visa & passport.   

Don't ride a bike, catch buses , and don't get into trouble……they simply exist in a laid back way.

SE Asia has always been a favourite haunt for criminals hiding out….I've met a few 😀

@goodolboy

The Jury's back in…..No 9 was declined.

That's why he's screaming  about it. 

Well at least he has his “ estranged” girlfriend looking after his apartment while he's gone.   I'm sure she's keeping it nice & tidy for prospective buyers. 😉

I work in a few gov hospitals here so get to meet a few ppl higher up the chain.

Apparently there was a huge audit and clean out of the immigration dept in the south which has been ongoing for most of this year.

That has been one of the reasons for the long delays in work permits, plus disgruntled staff who used to make 'bank' from visa agents etc now can't accept ludicrous fees to make work permits and longer visas anymore.

When i asked about the return of longer visas, i was told that it's not a priority apparently. However i wouldn't be surprised if they did come back after tet, as in Vietnam you never know what's around the corner.

There was a story this week saying they were going to up the number of countries eligible for an evisa. Token gesture really.

I am sorry but the guy spend $180k to buy an appartement, and not being able to spend 3000$ to buy a work permit ? it's tricky...

I am sorry but the guy spend $180k to buy an appartement, and not being able to spend 3000$ to buy a work permit ? it's tricky...
-@Brecon

Hi Brecon,

"BUYING" a work permit is not something we condone on the forum, There are many on the forum with actual experience of being on the wrong end of a dodgy WP or visa - that will give you some insight as to the perils of doing such.

I am sorry but the guy spend $180k to buy an appartement, and not being able to spend 3000$ to buy a work permit ? it's tricky...
-@Brecon
Hi Brecon,

"BUYING" a work permit is not something we condone on the forum, There are many on the forum with actual experience of being on the wrong end of a dodgy WP or visa - that will give you some insight as to the perils of doing such.
-@AndyHCMC

***

@GOB

Telling people to do illegal things on the forum isnt a great move, doing something illegal or dodgy is one thing, openly telling people to do it on the forum has never been condoned.

Just like there are heaps of people who teach without WP's it's done but it is pointed out regularly that people shouldn't.

You know as well as I that Hanoi clamped down on them and a heap had to leave.

Looking at the Elite 5-year visa in Thailand at 600,000 baht it becomes a very expensive exercise. -@colinoscapee

According to friends, for the ordinary common folk, one-year retirement visas can be obtained through agents for an amount in the range of approx. 17 to 33,000 baht (12 mil - 23 mil vnd/US$450 - $950), apparently depending on the province.

Still not cheap but supposedly in the subsequent years the fee is lower as more $$$ is needed for the initial set up in the first year, which includes opening a local bank account for the retiree, etc.Looks like the Elite visa works out to 120,000 baht per year (approx. 82 mil vnd/US$3,450), obviously not for the hoi polloi.

Head over to the Thailand forum for more info: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=211to avoid going too far off topic on this thread.

@Ontheroad57 If he has a property, why hasn't he applied for an investment visa and let the apartment out? Ok, so he would have to look for somewhere to rent, but would still be living in VN.

@GOB

As a team member of any level it would be totally irresponsible to tell people to buy a fake visa.

@Ontheroad57 If he has a property, why hasn't he applied for an investment visa and let the apartment out? Ok, so he would have to look for somewhere to rent, but would still be living in VN.
-@Safepeter

Owning a property here does not qualify for an investment visa, I have already tried going through that rout.

@Ontheroad57 If he has a property, why hasn't he applied for an investment visa and let the apartment out? Ok, so he would have to look for somewhere to rent, but would still be living in VN.
-@Safepeter

Owning a property here does not qualify for an investment visa, I have already tried going through that rout.
-@goodolboy

Correct.

He could start a business (open a hotel/motel?) and get a 1 year business visa, but he'd only be able to control 49% while a Vietnamese citizen (his ex?) would have to maintain 51% ownership.

If he's not willing to get married, I'd guess he wouldn't be up for that option.

@Ontheroad57 Well if you go to US on 6 month visa stamp and do U-turn on Mexican border and return to US, don't you think US CBP officer will take dim view of your travelling activity? He or she will probably cancel your visa, and we can whine and complain, regret about it on 545 different expat forums, but this is the life. It is sovereign right of every country to define their entrance/exit policies, how long you can legally stay there, and cannot do anything about it, just comply and hope for the better treatment in future.

@narcrepellant2525

Its really a simple process. Just do the research on regions in the world that appeal as either “snow bird” stay , or for a lengthy Retirement.  There's so much information online & vloggers constantly posting updates.

Then choose the Visa policy that suits. Most of these popular retirement destinations have Retirement Visa programmes that don't require you to find a job, start a business or marrying anyone.

Bali for example….has just launched a 10 year Visa ( subject to financial solvency requirements) and the initial cost is @ $200. 

However,,if your single & like stray women….🤔🤔 it may not suit you.

Since new co -habitation laws prevent boom boom between unmarried couples. 🥸

“Unconfirmed “ reports indicate they'll suggest joining a Book club, free Board games etc to keep you amused. I'm hearing a social support group has already been formed to assist those who become sexually frustrated. S.W.O. P.  sex with out partners.  It's a hands on , non-profit group that endeavours to fill the void for those concerned.

Haha, like your post. You cool dude.

Personally, I will say that Cambodia and Georgia are easiest country to stay longer without visa runs or by investing , having stash of money in local banks.

Again, this 30-day tourist visa policy was announced in late 2019 and there was a lot of discussion and hand-wringing. The "party" was over long ago.

-@johnross23

The new national law put into effect in December, 2019 (with an effective date of July 1, 2020) is apparently still on the books but currently modified by Immigration.

In essence, the 2019 law states the maximum visa flexibility allowed, while the shift in power after the elections of May, 2021 has had Immigration limiting that flexibility.

From that link, an explanation of the current tourist visa policy in that law:

1.2. The second change is about the tourist visa validity. It is changed as follows:

According to this new law, visitors entering Vietnam will be granted a temporary residence stamp upon arrival with the duration of stay matching their visas. But for tourist visas which are valid for more than 30 days, tourists are only given a 30-day temporary residence stamp, and they may consider extending visa every 30 days if they do not wish to leave the country.

So it apparently wouldn't take a change in the law for Immigration to begin issuing multiple-month tourist visas.

No one knows when or if Immigration is going to ease up and begin issuing tourist visas for the maximum time period allowed under the law, but (according to reports back in 2020) any extension of permission to stay would require reporting to the local immigration office and paying approximately $10 USD.

Those same reports said there would be some sort of quick interview where proof of income source would be demanded before an extension would be granted.

It's also worth mentioning that the December 2019 law change was certainly the product of discussions long before that.

National security and the eradication of illegal workers was already a concern of the government long before COVID became an issue.

Personally, I will say that Cambodia and Georgia are easiest country to stay longer without visa runs or by investing , having stash of money in local banks.
-@narcrepellant2525

Doesn't work anymore for cambodia. They changed the visas and enforced new rules. Either you are above 55yo and get a retirement visa or you're sol. If you are above 55yo its all cool, no pension or bank accounts needed. But if you are below 55yo it requires a documented steady pension plus a large saving, all documented. Buy out that visa ( or a business visa, also changed) using one of those "easy agencies" in cambodia will easily ends with deportation, considering they now use a gov database for foreigners in cambodia, it's an app where you must register and provide informations about you. The only option is doing a border run to thailand every 4 months but you still put yourself at the hands of the thai border and a possible further change on cambodian (or thai) border limiting your visas like vietnam. One lesson to learn from this thread if you plan to be a digital nomad or retired in sea (all of sea) is stay light (i mean it): don't buy a big tv, a car, a motorbyke, a pet or anything you are not ready to (hopefully) sell for less then half the value when it's time to leave. And much less.. a house nor any property

@narcrepellant2525 Oh i forgot.. about Georgia..just don't. Trust me , you're gonna move out faster then a bavet border run

Why, one American told me he had rented flat on seaside, cheap nice place, he did not complained. What was your experience with Georgia?

@narcrepellant2525 awesome country as a tourist, many great places to visit but living as an expat can be very, very challenging. Every single thing from buy a bottle of water to pay an electricity bill will be dealt with a pure, full intent to scam the foreigner. In the worst possible way. It's quite widespread, culturally. There is a literal wall to make your life as unpleasant as possible as an expat , after 1-2 year you will feel that exhaustion heavily and just..leave. I'll skip how dangerous is to roam around in the evening  but this is not the section of the forum to talk more about it but trust me, your friend will soon agree with me and leave.

g'day

Just some information for those “expats” still doing Visa runs & considering quick flights to Thailand & return as an option.

According to several media reports yesterday, be prepared for having to carry evidence of at least 2 Covid vaccinations & Covid INSURANCE. Nothings set in stone yet , but keep an eye on Thai Immigration developments.   Also,,if flying onto a country that requires a negative PCR test , that test obviously needs to be completed prior to boarding the flight.

IF Vietnam decides to require negative tests on incoming flights….that could make the quick Visa run flight a nightmare & costly.

up until now,,you just bought a ticket , show up & fly. 

This draft change in Thailand entry procedure is because of flights from China arriving from 12/1/23. They don't want to single out the Chinese , so EVERYONE agents the same shakedown.

Nothing has been legislated yet ,,but be prepared incase these proposals get passed….or find a better way to live 🤓

g'day
Just some information for those “expats” still doing Visa runs & considering quick flights to Thailand & return as an option.
According to several media reports yesterday, be prepared for having to carry evidence of at least 2 Covid vaccinations & Covid INSURANCE. Nothings set in stone yet , but keep an eye on Thai Immigration developments.  Also,,if flying onto a country that requires a negative PCR test , that test obviously needs to be completed prior to boarding the flight.
IF Vietnam decides to require negative tests on incoming flights….that could make the quick Visa run flight a nightmare & costly.

up until now,,you just bought a ticket , show up & fly.

This draft change in Thailand entry procedure is because of flights from China arriving from 12/1/23. They don't want to single out the Chinese , so EVERYONE agents the same shakedown.

Nothing has been legislated yet ,,but be prepared incase these proposals get passed….or find a better way to live 🤓
-@Ontheroad57

bloody hell, just booked my flights to & from Thailand a couple of days back leaving 15th back 16th just gotta live in hope I suppose.

@goodolboy

Just keep an eye on the various media channels for updates.

Apparently these new conditions of entry have been Approved by the ministry's concerned ,,BUT the date they'll be implemented has yet to be decided.

Since the Chinese will be hitting the skies from Monday the 9th….you'll probably hear something soon.

Reminds me of the Jaws movie promo…….”just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water” 🤪

@goodolboy
Just keep an eye on the various media channels for updates.
Apparently these new conditions of entry have been Approved by the ministry's concerned ,,BUT the date they'll be implemented has yet to be decided.

Since the Chinese will be hitting the skies from Monday the 9th….you'll probably hear something soon.

Reminds me of the Jaws movie promo…….”just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water” 🤪
-@Ontheroad57

its like deja voux it was at the Lunar New Year last time they managed to spread it world wide!! Her was me thinking I would get a jump on it & book early to get cheap flights 100usd return. Just gotta hope I dont end up out of Vietnam & cant get back in like happened to some people last time.

I will keep up to date on the state of play by watching your updates, I trust you to keep on top of it.

NEVER buy a property in Asia. Except maybe Korea as it has 1st world laws and protection (and a mere 250k property gets you a perm visa).

Invest at home, use income/rent from home investments/property to rent in Asia. You can long term leases. Far safer, and gives you mobility and flexibility. Also returns in Asia are usually lower than in teh west.

And often illegal to buy (eg Indonesia) or can only have a leasehold (Thailand).

Well Well well……Thailand Ministries ..Public Health Minister , according to Media reports have scrapped the requirement for Vax certificates.

Media  TNT.  …Tim Newton Today YouTube news Vlog….however , it's Monday, what will they do tomorrow.

"Monday, 9 January 2023, 14:34

...a controversial rule to require proof of documentation of Covid vaccination to fly to Thailand will be canceled."

Pattaya news (link)

@Aidan in HCMC a later today link https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/

“cumbersome and inconvenient” or chasing tourists  yuan, euros, and usd? My assessment is the latter.