Developments (inflation and protection)

As a side note, I have some EUR balances, but even if I would have some interest I would be very sad, I would have to pay tax (I do not know how, so I need an accountant), bottom line paying taxes on inflation, so if I would get 4% on what I have almost 50% is gone, I wait for next year to put something on a savings account, but inflation is horrible.

As I live in Turkey, EU banks do not like me and I am afraid if I go into gold or other investment products they will send me away (as my Luxembourg bank did).

Difficult times for savers I would say.
-@cdw057

Sterling (GBP) interest rates are quite high.  My dear old Dad is starting to go positive on his savings vs inflation due to interest rate rises.  Mainly it's mostly offsetting energy bills.   But it's killing people with mortgages.  HUF has plummeted. 

We're having work done on our house (landscaping mainly) and the price has effectively dropped 25% for labour but materials up 15%.  So net gain for us but struggle for the landscapers/builders.

Living outside the EU is a serious problem.   I have a relative who does lots of  business (millions of Euro) with Italy mainly and has constant trouble holding EUR currency in the UK.  He's having to think about opening a EUR account on the island of Ireland and establishing a subsidiary there.   Brexit benefit for Dublin or Belfast but not for the UK where he lives. 

I'm of the opinion at the moment, it might be better to move to Ireland - either North or South.

As a side note, I have some EUR balances, but even if I would have some interest I would be very sad, I would have to pay tax (I do not know how, so I need an accountant), bottom line paying taxes on inflation, so if I would get 4% on what I have almost 50% is gone, I wait for next year to put something on a savings account, but inflation is horrible.

As I live in Turkey, EU banks do not like me and I am afraid if I go into gold or other investment products they will send me away (as my Luxembourg bank did).

Difficult times for savers I would say.
-@cdw057

Sterling (GBP) interest rates are quite high. My dear old Dad is starting to go positive on his savings vs inflation due to interest rate rises. Mainly it's mostly offsetting energy bills.  But it's killing people with mortgages. HUF has plummeted.

We're having work done on our house (landscaping mainly) and the price has effectively dropped 25% for labour but materials up 15%. So net gain for us but struggle for the landscapers/builders.

Living outside the EU is a serious problem.  I have a relative who does lots of business (millions of Euro) with Italy mainly and has constant trouble holding EUR currency in the UK. He's having to think about opening a EUR account on the island of Ireland and establishing a subsidiary there.  Brexit benefit for Dublin or Belfast but not for the UK where he lives.

I'm of the opinion at the moment, it might be better to move to Ireland - either North or South.
-@fluffy2560

Ireland is very expensive

As a side note, I have some EUR balances, but even if I would have some interest I would be very sad, I would have to pay tax (I do not know how, so I need an accountant), bottom line paying taxes on inflation, so if I would get 4% on what I have almost 50% is gone, I wait for next year to put something on a savings account, but inflation is horrible.

As I live in Turkey, EU banks do not like me and I am afraid if I go into gold or other investment products they will send me away (as my Luxembourg bank did).

Difficult times for savers I would say.
-@cdw057

Sterling (GBP) interest rates are quite high. My dear old Dad is starting to go positive on his savings vs inflation due to interest rate rises. Mainly it's mostly offsetting energy bills. But it's killing people with mortgages. HUF has plummeted.

We're having work done on our house (landscaping mainly) and the price has effectively dropped 25% for labour but materials up 15%. So net gain for us but struggle for the landscapers/builders.

Living outside the EU is a serious problem. I have a relative who does lots of business (millions of Euro) with Italy mainly and has constant trouble holding EUR currency in the UK. He's having to think about opening a EUR account on the island of Ireland and establishing a subsidiary there. Brexit benefit for Dublin or Belfast but not for the UK where he lives.

I'm of the opinion at the moment, it might be better to move to Ireland - either North or South.
-@fluffy2560

Ireland is very expensive
-@SimCityAT

It's true - a few people have told me that. But might be workable from NI and inside the single market.  Essentially, importing components and adding value by integrating them into something else then re-exporting. No point in faffing with the mainland's paperwork. Like an EU freeport.

Of course it is a decadent comparison, but in Luxembourg there was a bus once a week for old people (in our village) to go to a supermarket. Cost might not being the issue, but mobility is.


-@cdw057

Here in Austria with have a Town minibus that drives around the town taking people to the local shop(s) for €1 per trip. Its also Electric powered and has been operational for about 5 years. Although never used it, it is very popular from what I hear.

Of course it is a decadent comparison, but in Luxembourg there was a bus once a week for old people (in our village) to go to a supermarket. Cost might not being the issue, but mobility is.

-@cdw057

Here in Austria with have a Town minibus that drives around the town taking people to the local shop(s) for €1 per trip. Its also Electric powered and has been operational for about 5 years. Although never used it, it is very popular from what I hear.
-@SimCityAT

I saw a bus like that somewhere like Wales. It was on the TV - might have on BBC Countryfile. It was electric too. It was effectively powered by a local area hydro scheme owned by the residents of the village/town. I think it might have been free as the hydro scheme generated a surplus supply to the grid which returned money for local schemes like free to use e-bikes/free bus etc.

Call me, "confused" I don't understand the question.

Those price caps on food items are not really available.

Sounds nice on paper but going into the shops and finding those capped items is a different matter.

They were suppose to price cap some whole chickens. Well the shop keepers figured out how to get around that. Many times you can only find pre cut chicken which doesn't have a price cap.

I looked yesterday as I've periodically have done for several weeks, for sugar at Aldi.

None for sale, not even brown sugar.

I forgot to look at Tesco to check the other day. Sort of quit using much sugar so it wasn't on my mind.

Old folks can get home delviery from the big stores it they need it.

My friend in AZ was doing that. She is handicapped in a wheelcahir and hates going out to be starred at.

The probelm with that is many times they give you half rotten produce that either has to be tossed out or stored for a return at a later date.

Here in Hungary if a person has no way to get to the doctor they will send a ride out. It might take a long time for them to pick you up or take you home again however.

I met an elderly lady in a waiting room who makes sure she has cab fare in case her ambulance service ride doesn't show up.

As far a savings goes, when they do the ,"Great Reset" we may all have to reset at zero.

I'm sure some people will check themselves out like in 1929.

Call me, "confused" I don't understand the question.
Those price caps on food items are not really available.
Sounds nice on paper but going into the shops and finding those capped items is a different matter.
They were suppose to price cap some whole chickens. Well the shop keepers figured out how to get around that. Many times you can only find pre cut chicken which doesn't have a price cap.
I looked yesterday as I've periodically have done for several weeks, for sugar at Aldi.
None for sale, not even brown sugar.
I forgot to look at Tesco to check the other day. Sort of quit using much sugar so it wasn't on my mind.
Old folks can get home delviery from the big stores it they need it.
My friend in AZ was doing that. She is handicapped in a wheelcahir and hates going out to be starred at.
The probelm with that is many times they give you half rotten produce that either has to be tossed out or stored for a return at a later date.

Here in Hungary if a person has no way to get to the doctor they will send a ride out. It might take a long time for them to pick you up or take you home again however.
I met an elderly lady in a waiting room who makes sure she has cab fare in case her ambulance service ride doesn't show up.

As far a savings goes, when they do the ,"Great Reset" we may all have to reset at zero.
I'm sure some people will check themselves out like in 1929.
-@Marilyn Tassy

I see those signs about the amount of sugar you can buy but I don't buy sugar so I didn't pay that much attention.  Of course the shop owners will be able to get around all those restrictions on chicken and who can blame them. They could be making a loss and no-one would do that voluntarily.

In the UK they will send you home in a (free) taxi from the hospital. That's assuming you arrived by ambulance. But you could be waiting hours and hours. My Dad was waiting more than 6h after being taken to hospital last week. In the end, we got one of his helpers to go and collect him.

Really we should be like Benjamin Button money wise, we start out with all the cash and then we spend it down to zero as we approach non-existence. It would be so much more interesting.

Hi. I am Hungarian  and living in Hungary. I would be happy to help claryify this issue. So I try to give a summary.

The price cup is intended to help the people who are the most voulnerable and applied by the government. However this is a very questionable solution to a very complex economic problem of this country. 

Please find the list of the products with price cup  in this article.  Use the English translator for the article!

[link moderated] 

Whole chicken is not included on this list! )

The bacground: First of all the government is not providing any funds to maintain the reduced prices. Instead, the government is forcing  shops owners who buy the products on the original high price to sell them at a considerably lower price to costumers. Small shops owners are getting financial problems to survive. That is a fact that many costumers try to buy  and store higher amounts of food with price cups to save some money. Therefore  some shops are running out of these articles. But in many  big shops you will probably find the products with price cups if you make more attempts.  In summary -in my opinion -  the price cups in a longer term are definitely not a healthy solution from the country's economic point of view. 

I need to add my personal experience:  I was working for a charity as a volunteer for a few days  in the Allee Interspar supermarket collecting items for voulnerable people: in that  supermarket sugar, flour and vegetable oil among others with price cup were definitely available. Costumers donated every day a lot of those items to the charity. I also heard that shops run out sometimes of the chicken brest etc.  But normally are available these products in a longer term. 

I hope I could help. I wish you all Marry Xmas.

Hi. I am Hungarian and living in Hungary. I would be happy to help clarify this issue. So I try to give a summary.
The price cup is intended to help the people who are the most vulnerable and applied by the government. However this is a very questionable solution to a very complex economic problem of this country.

Please find the list of the products with price cap in this article. Use the English translator for the article!
[link under review]
Whole chicken is not included on this list! )

The background: First of all the government is not providing any funds to maintain the reduced prices. Instead, the government is forcing shops owners who buy the products on the original high price to sell them at a considerably lower price to costumers. Small shops owners are getting financial problems to survive. That is a fact that many costumers try to buy and store higher amounts of food with price caps to save some money. Therefore some shops are running out of these articles. But in many big shops you will probably find the products with price caps if you make more attempts. In summary -in my opinion - the price caps in a longer term are definitely not a healthy solution from the country's economic point of view.

I need to add my personal experience: I was working for a charity as a volunteer for a few days in the Allee Interspar supermarket collecting items for vulnerable people: in that supermarket sugar, flour and vegetable oil among others with price cup were definitely available. Costumers donated every day a lot of those items to the charity. I also heard that shops run out sometimes of the chicken breast etc. But normally are available these products in a longer term.

I hope I could help. I wish you all Merry Xmas.
-@abelovszkyv

It's a good summary.

I agree it's a really bad thing for the government to do. Essentially it'll put the shop owners out of business.  They simply won't sell it.  And then the farmers suffer as well as less demand.  Then you have unemployed people, less taxes and so on.  Something more targeted like tax reductions for low earners, families with kids, elderly or a refund system would be more focused on those who need help. It's amateur hour at the OV populist economics department.

BTW, history repeat itself. if you look at the Venezuela and Colombia border area, because Venezuela had very cheap fuel, smuggling was going on all the time.  Probably still is.  At 480 HUF/litre It was inevitably going on in Hungary and the border countries as well. 

Our neighbor rang us up yesterday.

At least in our district they are giving seniors a 10,000 forint present.

I'm not sure but think it is to spend at Lidel market.

Our district used to give seniors and those with a special card a Xmas tree and a box of treats for the holiday,

I think 10,000 forints to buy food items is a better idea and needed for many people.

My husband always said that peple should start life out with a certain amount of money to spend and nt have t work until they ar over 35 years old or older.

Take the time to enjoy yourself while your body and mind are able to absorb things.

My cousin and his wife seem to be on a race to spend on travel before it's too late for them.

I think he is now 72 or 72 and she is 66.

They spent almost 2 months in Europe recently and then went over to Costa Rica with their daughter.

He has visited probably every cuntry there is ver the years.

I don't know how they do it with running here and there catching flights, trains etc.

I'm worn out just seeing his posts.

Not every older person even wants to travel any longer let alone be able to afford to do so.

We have been in the talking stages of taking a big trip but really I'm good to just watch some videos online.

It's better the have the means while young then when you really couldn't care less to see or experience a new place.

My friend in AZ's husband is retired from a US airline job. They can travel just like my brother could of and my SIL with just paying the taxes to fly anywhere. My friend doesn't even fly to the next state.

Everything is backwards in life.

As for the price caps:

Was a bad idea, and clearly not working.

Product very often not on the selves.

Shops do whatever tricks as workaround

Shops increased prices at other products in a very wild-capitalist way.

What should work is an exponential tax increase:

Dear ALDI/ XY shop: you did increase the price of paper tissue from 99 Huf to 369 Huf. No problem: your new excise tax will be: exactly 270 Huf near the original.

Near that invest in all industries and make production. If a milk farm which is in government ownership sells milk as half price, and sells for a capped end-user price, then all the the others must follow suit if wanna costumers and it would end the present cartell prices.

I don't know what is in the common basket of people, but some example what I used to buy (original prices from 2021 fall/ 2021-22 winter): Prices in Huf

100% multivitamin:         299    ->        549        +    80%

Careal roll:                    25    ->        65        +160%

Salami (100 g cut)        299    ->        600+    +100%

Egg L size                    40    ->        78        (the M, and usually nothing on shelves) +100%

Milk 3.5%                    230    ->        500+    +cc. 120%

Paper tissue                99    ->        369        +cc. 270%

Soap (baba)                150    ->        300+    +cc. 100%

And the list is very very long.

So when the government lies about price increases (what they falsely call inflation) and state inflation were about 15-20%, and food price increases just around 40% I remember Winston Churchill: "The only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself."

As for the price caps:
Was a bad idea, and clearly not working.

Product very often not on the selves.
Shops do whatever tricks as workaround
Shops increased prices at other products in a very wild-capitalist way.


What should work is an exponential tax increase:

Dear ALDI/ XY shop: you did increase the price of paper tissue from 99 Huf to 369 Huf. No problem: your new excise tax will be: exactly 270 Huf near the original.

Near that invest in all industries and make production. If a milk farm which is in government ownership sells milk as half price, and sells for a capped end-user price, then all the the others must follow suit if wanna costumers and it would end the present cartel prices.

I don't know what is in the common basket of people, but some example what I used to buy (original prices from 2021 fall/ 2021-22 winter): Prices in Huf

100% multivitamin:    299  ->    549    +  80%
Careal roll:          25  ->    65    +160%
Salami (100 g cut)    299  ->    600+  +100%
Egg L size          40  ->    78    (the M, and usually nothing on shelves) +100%
Milk 3.5%          230  ->    500+  +cc. 120%
Paper tissue        99  ->    369    +cc. 270%
Soap (baba)        150  ->    300+  +cc. 100%


And the list is very very long.

So when the government lies about price increases (what they falsely call inflation) and state inflation were about 15-20%, and food price increases just around 40% I remember Winston Churchill: "The only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself."
-@sjbabilon5

Mrs F says that chicken breast is particularly oddly priced.  With bones, it's not subject to subsidy so supermarkets put out lots of that and just a few "old" chicken pieces which clearly are not very good.  You can imagine how it can be manipulated to avoid the subsidy rules.

I reckon the average price increase across the board is 100%. 

Fuel is strange, 95 is about HUF 615 and at the same station, diesel is about 680 HUF.   So quite  a price difference.  Not sure why diesel is more expensive.  It's very volatile - changes every day.

As for the price caps:
Was a bad idea, and clearly not working.

Product very often not on the selves.
Shops do whatever tricks as workaround
Shops increased prices at other products in a very wild-capitalist way.


What should work is an exponential tax increase:

Dear ALDI/ XY shop: you did increase the price of paper tissue from 99 Huf to 369 Huf. No problem: your new excise tax will be: exactly 270 Huf near the original.

Near that invest in all industries and make production. If a milk farm which is in government ownership sells milk as half price, and sells for a capped end-user price, then all the the others must follow suit if wanna costumers and it would end the present cartell prices.



I don't know what is in the common basket of people, but some example what I used to buy (original prices from 2021 fall/ 2021-22 winter): Prices in Huf

100% multivitamin:    299  ->    549    +  80%
Careal roll:          25  ->    65    +160%
Salami (100 g cut)    299  ->    600+  +100%
Egg L size          40  ->    78    (the M, and usually nothing on shelves) +100%
Milk 3.5%          230  ->    500+  +cc. 120%
Paper tissue        99  ->    369    +cc. 270%
Soap (baba)        150  ->    300+  +cc. 100%


And the list is very very long.

So when the government lies about price increases (what they falsely call inflation) and state inflation were about 15-20%, and food price increases just around 40% I remember Winston Churchill: "The only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself."
-@sjbabilon5

I'd love to know where you shop because our Aldi was selling Kasier rolls for 89 frints each.

A 24 pack of TP was just under 2,800

The cheap paper towels I used to buy there are up from some hundred for 4 rools to 799. I now spring for better ones even if they are slightly more expensive.

Eggs, I sometimes buy 2 6 packs of GMO free eggs at Lidl for 649 . Last week my husband picked up eggs by the piece at a farmers market, no idea if they are organic of what but the yolks look nice and yellow. He paid 80 forints each for 10 eggs.

Off today to get my avacado fix, they were 6 small ones in a bag for 1,499.

Sometimes we find them for udn er 400 forints each but o very often.

I've seen them for sale by the piece for 700 or more for one.

Onions last week at Tesco were 529 per kilo, the famrers market was 280 a kilo.

@fluffy2560

Diesel is predominantly produced in Szaszhalombatta Hungary.

Old refinery, not too effective, often needs maintance, and workforce/ leadership carry many socialist system "heritage", so also not too effective but in the meantime expensive.

The 95/ 98 predominantly made in Slovakia (also MOL), but without certain ballasts.

But if rules will not change gasoline can skyrocket, because the EU sanctions try to forbid the refined Russian products exchange between member states. So if gasoline cannot come from MOL Slovakia most likely will be scarce and expensive.

Also because EU try to enforce an additional tax on fuel if we cannot block it there will be another cc. +32.5 Huf increase because the increased tax.

@Marilyn Tassy

Kaiser rolls are always was more expensive - I did mention the simple ones.

As for TP I still have cc. a year of supply at home - did not check for a long while.

"He paid 80 forints each for 10 eggs."

That is a good price nowdays for an L sized yellow-inside/ good quality egg.

"Onions last week at Tesco were 529 per kilo, the famrers market was 280 a kilo."

Which farmers market do you attend?

If it is in somewhere Budapest this worth a check out.

(Mention: in 2021 I did read about Hipermarkets usually buy local products (like onions, melons, etc...) for as low as 10-20% of the end-user (costunmers) price from the local producers. Such practice leads to "nice" profits. While in the meantime usually buy (import here) goods at least 50-70% of the end-user price from their home country - which ends up here as (still overpriced) import.)

I did not was in TESCO last year, but anno they often had onions from Egypt, where they used massive ammount of DDT in the near past (officially banned just around 2000), but many continued to use even after became illegal. Anyway because DDT does not break down it still notably present in agricultural lands/ waters there.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15138034/

So vegetables from there not a good buy because often contain various ammounts of such chemicals, also tend to be more expensive in hipermarkets than the local elsewhere.

Price politics:

UK: 1.2 GBP = 540 Huf

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p … /252261477

Hun TESCO: 1.100 Huf = 2.45 GBP

https://bevasarlas.tesco.hu/groceries/h … 4009959015

So same product cost in Hungary double.

Pobably because we have better wages, and our country much richer?    -> just kidding

Same true for the German/ Austrian/ etc.. shopping chains. If in their home country there would be the same prices as here people would outrage.

But they can do it in East Europe where our traitors demolished mostly the local economy/ state ownership (privatization) as a prerequisite to joining the EU. Which get a cheap workforce, and market for their overpriced (and often lesser quality) products.

One of the reasons why I regard the EU as financial/ economical colonization organization.

@fluffy2560
Diesel is predominantly produced in Szaszhalombatta Hungary.
Old refinery, not too effective, often needs maintenance, and workforce/ leadership carry many socialist system "heritage", so also not too effective but in the meantime expensive.
The 95/ 98 predominantly made in Slovakia (also MOL), but without certain ballasts.

But if rules will not change gasoline can skyrocket, because the EU sanctions try to forbid the refined Russian products exchange between member states. So if gasoline cannot come from MOL Slovakia most likely will be scarce and expensive.
Also because EU try to enforce an additional tax on fuel if we cannot block it there will be another cc. +32.5 Huf increase because the increased tax.
-@sjbabilon5

Yes, been near Százhalombatta a couple of times.  Quite visible from the hills. Only refinery in Hungary.  I did hear about the MOL refinery in Slovakia. They had technical issues recently. There's also a refinery at Vienna you pass on the highway to the city.

There have been some exchanges of fuel between Russia and Ukraine early on in the war.  The Bulgarians had a secret operation where they were importing Russian oil, refining it, then sending it to Ukraine. Kind of interesting it was a Russian Lukoil refinery run entirely by Bulgarians.

There are always going to be other sources of supply. It's just going to cost more.

From what I've seen recently the cost of 95 is reducing but the cost of diesel is going up. The price differential is quite stark - about 70 HUF.

@fluffy2560

There were plans from time to time to make another refinery at Algyő, near Szeged, but as I know that always remained plan, Algyő remains a notable extraction/ industrial site.

About sources: I am not very optimistic.

First the cost, second the technology/ investment which needs in refineries/ transport, third the reliability of supply.

But the positive side: both refineries are over 60-65 years old, so some modernization neccesary anyway.