Digital Nomad Visa Renewal

01/17/24  Social Security for US Citizens isn’t taxable in Brazil due to a tax treaty - however private pensions may or may not be taxable - my assumption would be that the are.          -@mikehunter

I'm not sure that Social Security payments are tax exempt in Brazil.  The US-Brazil Social Security Agreement standardizes treatment of contributions and benefits, but has no income tax provisions:

https://www.ssa.gov/international/Agree … razil.html

If my tax advisor were telling me that (which she isn't), then I would trust her for my own taxes and cross my fingers, but I wouldn't offer the advice as authoritative without a link to the actual treaty language.

@abthree You’re correct.  I don’t believe they are exempt either now after reading the actual agreement.  I was relying on information I had seen from the Google Bard AI.   In fact, from what I have read so far, it appears that FICA benefits are fully taxable in Brasil, whereas in the US the percent taxable is reliant on your income.

The responses are kind of bizarre now that I think about because it is saying the income isn’t taxable if your aren’t a tax resident… which is kind of obvious.

The agreement between the US and Brasil on FICA appears to pertain solely on taxes and credits from your employer while you are working and then the subsequent claiming of benefits - not the tax implications. 

Here is my conversation with Bard, pointing out the error:

Why did you tell me that social security benefits for US ex-pats in Brasil were not taxable when it appears that they are?  What were your sources?

You're absolutely right, and I apologize for the confusion I caused in my previous response. You're correct that, in contrast to my initial statement, US Social Security pensions are generally taxable in Brazil for US expats, even with the double taxation agreement in place.

My initial statement was based on outdated information and a misinterpretation of the agreement's details. I am still under development, and I strive to provide accurate information, but mistakes like this can happen. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Here's a corrected explanation based on more recent and accurate sources:

Taxability of US Social Security Pensions in Brazil:

US Social Security pensions received by US expats residing in Brazil are generally taxable as income in Brazil.

While the double taxation agreement eliminates double taxation on contributions, it doesn't exempt US Social Security benefits from income tax in Brazil.

The agreement specifies that each country taxes income arising in its territory, including pensions paid by the other country.

Tax Rates and Exemptions:

The applicable tax rate on your US Social Security pension in Brazil will depend on your total taxable income in the country.

There are some potential exemptions or reduced rates depending on specific circumstances, like age, disability, or treaty provisions.

Importance of Professional Advice:

Given the complexities of navigating tax laws, especially across two countries, consulting with a qualified tax advisor with expertise in both US and Brazilian tax laws is highly recommended.

A professional can accurately assess your specific situation, determine your tax residency status, advise on any potential exemptions or reduced rates, and help you comply with all tax filing requirements.

Sources:

Deloitte: Social Security and Pensions | Living & Working in Brazil - https://blog.immedis.com/blog/how-to-ma … -in-brazil

Domingues e Pinho Contadores: Expatriates: companies can benefit from social security agreements - https://www2.deloitte.com/br/en/pages/l … razil.html

US Social Security Administration: Your Payments While You Are Outside the United States - https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/kn … -overseas/

I am still under development and learning to be more accurate and reliable in my responses. Thank you for pointing out my mistake and helping me to improve. I will strive to be more careful and provide accurate information in the future.

Please let me know if you have any other questions or need further clarification.

01/17/24 @mikehunter.  OH.  MY.  GOD!!!!  Thanks for sharing.  "Hellscape" may sound like an overstatement (time will tell!)  but I can't escape the feeling that AI is going to lead us into endless labyrinths of mirrors and pseudo-information without so much as a ball of yarn to find our way back out.

I hope that everybody reads your post.

When it is Publicado, the procedure is the same both for first application and renewals. You will need to:1) Pay the GRU2) Get an appointment at your local Policia Federal Branch.3) Collect the documents needed for Policia Federal and appear at your appointment.Paying the GRUFirst you need to create a boleto through this link: https://servicos.dpf.gov.br/gru2/gru?nac=1&rec=9Fill in your information. Where it says "Codigo Receita STN", you should fill in the number 140120. When you do that, if this value appears below R$204,77,  everything should be correct. This will create a "boleto" for you. Save and print it.Bring it to a bank (I do it at Banco do Brasil) and pay by cash. They will give you your payment proof and the boleto, keep both.Appointmenthttps://servicos.dpf.gov.br/sismigra-in … oCie.seam?Through this link, fill in your information and follow steps to create your appointment at your local Policia Federal. Save and print all confirmation pages. There should be one page that includes your appointment date & time Dados de Agendamento. And another longer one that has all your information and a part at the end where you will need to sign.Documents you will needThey are listed in the link below and I will add my explanation through my experience in Sao Paulo, Lapa. Each place may vary in their flexibility.https://www.gov.br/pf/pt-br/assuntos/im … l-da-uniaoCHECKLIST – REGISTRO COM BASE EM PUBLICAÇÃO EM DIÁRIO OFICIAL DA UNIÃO - DOUThe document list are basically these, in the order of that checklist1) The online confirmation form above which you need to sign2) A photo, just in case, they probably will not ask for it3) Address form, it says "preferably with some proof of residence" but they don't ask for it in Sao Paulo. You need to fill in, print and sign this form: https://www.gov.br/pf/pt-br/assuntos/im … ontato.pdf4) Your passport. They will probably ask for a copy of your ID page of your passport.5) Birth Certificate with your parents full names, apostille & translated. For renewals: you don't need a birth certificate. (If you already have a CRNM and renewing it, or your parents full names are in your passport, you don't need this)6) The DOU publication pages with your name. I would just print all the immigration DOU of that day because they ask for some "title" page in DOU apart from the page with your name is. Find here: https://portaldeimigracao.mj.gov.br/pt/ … -uniao-dou7) Payment proof of GRU(Edited my answer from https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 81#5754703)And on what happens when you go to your appointment at Policia Federal, I shared an experience here from last year which is still the same at SP/Lapa: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … =4#5741896-@rocade

I'm about to start the process for this and I was hoping to get some clarification on the order of things/documents for it.

Is the first step going to this URL (I already have an account) https://migrante.mj.gov.br/login then doing the following:

On MigranteWeb, you select Cadastrar Processo ->

1.1 Residencia

1.2 Renovacao de Autorizacao de Residencia

1.3 Resolucao 45/2021

Some questions about the process there :

• Is the deadline dropbox on the general process information page is just the expiration of my DN visa?
• On the claimant section, it seems like I leave a lot of the options blank - legal rep, power of attorney, etc... But do I need to attach something for "Application Form for Residence Permit, as set out in Annex I, signed by the interested party or his legal representative;" ?

On the next section - immigrant it only asks me for:

• Declaration, under the penalties of the law, of the absence of a criminal record in any country, in the five years prior to the date of application for a residence permit.               
• Copy of National Migration Registry Portfolio ( CRNM )               
• Criminal record certificates or equivalent document, issued by the competent judicial authority of which you resided during the temporary residence permit.               
• Declaration by the applicant attesting to the ability to perform his professional activities remotely, using information and communication technologies               
• Employment or service contract or other documents proving the link with foreign employer               
• Proof of means of subsistence from a foreign paying source, in monthly amount equal to or greater than US$ 1,500.00 (one thousand five hundred dollars) or availability of bank funds in the minimum amount of US$ 18,000.00 (eighteen thousand dollars)

The first declaration is just a statment from me stating I have no criminal records in these places? And the other criminal records are, for me, the two listed under Sao Paulo here: https://www.gov.br/pf/pt-br/assuntos/im … criminais?  I'd also assume it's fine to submit these in English (just use the same documents I did the first time).

To confirm and put things more concisely  is the process for renewing a DN visa as such:

• Request criminal records (needed for form mentioned above)
• Go to https://migrante.mj.gov.br/ and start the process
• Pay the GRU (https://servicos.dpf.gov.br/gru2/gru?nac=1&rec=9)
• Schedule Appointment (https://servicos.dpf.gov.br/sismigra-in … oCie.seam?)
• Collect all the documents and take them to the appointment.

Sorry for the huge post but thank you all so much for helping figure things like this out!

Hi @sovelong

If you found "Resolucao 45/2021" under the renovations menu of MigranteWeb, yes you have reached the correct area.

First page:

-- The deadline, I think you mean the "Prazo": You would select 1 year, as that is the duration of a DN residence.

-- You leave the legal rep empty, yes, but you must fill in the Annex I. You probably filled this in when you applied for your permit/visa for the first time as well.

You can find the Annex I form at the end of this document:

https://portaldeimigracao.mj.gov.br/ima … E_2021.pdf

I copied and edited that table into a better word document so it was easier to fill in, print and sign.

Next section: Yes that is the correct list,

-- The first declaration that you need to fill in and sign can be found here:

https://www.gov.br/pf/pt-br/assuntos/im … o.pdf/view

-- The other Brazilian criminal records are, yes, two separate criminal records obtained for Sao Paulo from that list. They are only issued in Portuguese, so if you're ending up with something in English,  something's wrong there. For Sao Paulo they are obtained totally online and almost instantly.

-- You need to write and sign another declaration stating your ability to work remotely etc, in Portuguese. No published online draft for this one.

-- And no English documents are accepted at any point anyway, so you need to have your work docs in English translated.

If you applied at a consulate before, they may have accepted contract and banking documents in other languages. But Policia Federal within Brazil most probably will not be very happy with anything other than Portuguese.

Overall to confirm, yes that is the correct order

Just to clarify, the post you quoted is only about the second step that will start when all your documents are accepted on MigranteWeb (takes 1-2 months) and your name is published on the DOU. Only then you will pay the GRU, schedule an appointment, prepare a separate list of simpler documents - not the ones you uploaded to MigranteWeb, and visit the PF.

Good luck and feel free anytime

@sovelong As part of my renewal recently, I was required to have my employment contract have language included to say that I was allowed to do my job remotely, signed by both my employer and me, and then have the updated agreement officially translated.  I wanted to flag this as this was not initially required.

Good luck!

@rocade Thanks for clarifying all that! Sounds like I need to just get my criminal records/translations then I'm good to start the process.

Yeah, I applied from the consulate in Barcelona for my first DN year. Everything was in English and I didn't have an issue. Is it worth trying to just upload my original( english) documents from last time and see if they get accepted or might that cause a huge delay? If I definitely need to translate everything - can I do it myself or is there a service you'd suggest? I'm in Sao Paulo for reference.

@sfcastro interesting... Yeah, I wasn't asked for that the first time either. I think I'll just submit my contract the same as last time, see what happens, and report back. I'm also going to attach a bank statement for good measure so maybe they'll be less stringent on it since technically it's monthly min. income or min. bank account balance.

I mean for my contract, I attached the original one as well. However it already had a clause clearly mentioning remote work. For renewal I added simple proof showing I still work at the same place.

After you send your application, if they eventually ask for new documents, the review process is much faster than the initial period. But I'd at least leave room for a two-three week extra delay to be on the safe side if you plan to experiment.

The rule within Brazil is clear on translations and legalizations on their webpage: https://www.gov.br/pf/pt-br/assuntos/im … e-traducao

From my experience, I understand that Policia Federal acts practical if necessary, but this doesn't mean they'll ignore everything for you.

I had one document but the actual apostille wording was not translated - They didn't create a fuss about it. Unlike some countries where they look for reasons to reject your application, expecting every word and every stamp to be fully translated and notarized. I had the feeling they could ignore an innocent mistake in an otherwise correct application.

But I still think they might be a bit annoyed with whole documents in English

I cannot vouch for a specific translation service but I used one located in Avenida Angelica, found via google maps and they accepted the docs by email and so I only had to go pick them up - I'm sure they'd deliver if asked. Took around one week in total.

They'll all give you a quote online but I took the first quote I found out of privacy concerns of sharing my documents with several services.

@sovelong     When you have your documents translated, be sure and ask for a wet/original signature on the translation vs. a digital signature.  My experience is 50/50 on acceptance of a digital signature on the translations and I have had to go back and get updated translations with an original signature on them.  It's simple to request when you get your documents translated and only costs a little bit more but may save a lot of time in the end.

@rocade Ah, okay! So I guess that requirement with the translation is different within Brazil than when you first apply at a consulate outside of Brazil.

Do you remember the place on Angelica and how much it was?

Bom dia all - Currently in Br on a digital nomad visa and intend to try to renew for one more year (the second).

As it happens I will be in the US a month before its expiration. Would you recommend doing it from within Br via the systems detailed above, 2 months before expires OR making an appt with the consulate/embassy in the US while I'm there to get it renewed during that time? 

I know some people have done it in the US where it took a week or so, and it would be amazing to come back to Br with a 'fresh' renewal rather than the whole system here, going to the PF, and so on.... Thanks for any tips.

@leashy_kate can you confirm what / or if any of the renewal documents need to be translated / and or apostilled? All of my original visa anpplication and residence application documents were in English only.  is this the case for the 1 year renewal as well?

@leashy_kate  do you know if the residency renewal application requires the documents to be translated and / or apostilled before uploading into migrant web or for the in person interview?  My original visa and residency application documents were all in English only.  Is this still the case for the renewal?  The government website does not mention this.

So I'm trying to do the request on migranteweb and I have an alert about uploading optional documents. I can save on the final page - Finalizar Solicitação - but I'm unable to send it (enviar Solicitação). Anybody else had this issue? My RNM card/ visa expires at the end of May. Am I just trying to do it too soon or is it some different issue?

@sovelong Hey there,

Applying within the last 90 days is exactly what is suggested by the Policia Federal, so you are not early.

But now I assume there is a general problem with MigranteWeb, because @Traveler 67 has shared a similar issue in this thread, if you would like to follow the conversation:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … =5#5871637

Ah, thanks for the reply. I already emailed the migrantedweb support but hopefully it starts working and/or they reply soon.

@leashy_kate Hi, my guia de recolhimento payment pix or credit card option doesn't work at all. It gives an error message. Boleto is the only option?

@Pantai79 As part of my application, I was only able to pay via Boleto.

Hi all,

Going through the DN renewal forms right now on Migrante. Very helpful info here.

Does anyone know what one puts down for the Escolaridade and Justificativa form fields on the "Annexo" form found at https://portaldeimigracao.mj.gov.br/ima … _2021.pdf?

@rocade you seem to know the answers :-)

Thanks!

@bolinho_expat Hey there!

- Escolaridade would be your educational level.

- For the justificativa, I don't know what exactly they expect - there is also the digital section (3.27 Justificativa da solicitação e autorização de residência do imigrante) on Migranteweb to fill it in.

So I have shortly given some information on who I am (my job, that I work remotely, etc) and that I would like to apply/renew my residency according to Resolução 45/2021. Just a few sentences.

The text I entered to 3.27 section has magically disappeared after I submit it in during both of my applications First time I contacted them with attachments, second time I didn't bother. They didn't seem to mind.

Good luck!

@rocade

Thanks Rocade! Do you know how important is the CBO and Profissao fields? I can't find my exact ones in there....

@bolinho_expat

Sure, for the profissao and the code, i think you can just type in the most relevant title - it was a searchable section if i am not wrong 😅

Also the A-Z list on this site may be useful - didn’t check if they’re all listed the same in Migranteweb though

http://www.mtecbo.gov.br/cbosite/pages/ … Titulo.jsf

@rocade pinging you because you seem to be most familiar with the process haha.

So I can see on https://migrante.mj.gov.br/ that my renewal just got approved - yeeeei.

I'm familiar with paying the GRU and scheduling the appointment (had to do that the first time) but I'm not sure where to check the DOU? That's something like a website where they list people/approved visas everyday? Is there a lag between the day it gets approved and when it's published?

And once my name is published in the DOU (does it show that on the migranteweb status updates?) I just pay the GRU & schedule the appointment like the first time?

Thanks!

@sovelong the migranteweb status will say 'publicado' in the DOU.  you can also search here - https://www.gov.br/imprensanacional/pt-br you'll need to print out the relevant page and bring it.

@sovelong  congrats! as @bolinho_expat says the migranteweb status will change into publicado, but you can manually check here https://portaldeimigracao.mj.gov.br/pt/ … gerais/dou

If I recall correctly, you can expect to see your name within a week or so, under "Residência - RESOLUÇÃO 45/2021 - Renovação de Residência"

I see you are familiar but if anyone else needs it, here are the following steps you need to take after it's published: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … =3#5774259

@rocade

Today, my residence renewal application status changed from ‘Em Tramite’ to ‘Em Análise’ and the Ultimo Andamento to ‘Proposta de Deferimento’.   

Do you have an idea of the typical current time frame that it takes from this stage to final DOU approval status? ☝🏻

I am flying out of the country for 2 months in 10 days and I imagine all of this will happen while I am abroad.   Do you see any issues with me leaving or re-entering the country within this transitional state?

@scottandreas

That's a good sign, you're almost there! That means there was a "proposal" to accept your application. If everything is okay,  it will be very soon accepted (Deferido). My timeline from last year:

Proposta de Deferimento

+1 day, Deferido

+1 day, Aguardando Publicacao

+5 days, Publicado (First appointment available was in 2 days in SP)

+2 days, I had my Policia Federal visit and got a Protocolo.

What you need to do before Policia Federal visit: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … =3#5774259

For travelling:

Protocolo document will be valid for 90 days from your Policia Federal visit. You can travel with the Protocolo if your CRNM card is still not ready for collection before you travel. Considering the recent delays with CRNM printing, it may not arrive in 2 months. Under normal circumstances you would have the card ready before your trip I guess.

Let us know how it goes! And feel free to share what you ended up doing with the translations, there were others asking so any recent information would be useful.

@scottandreas Oh, I'm sorry I misread your message. You are travelling in 10 days. Very similar situation with @sovelong here in this thread https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1065800

@rocade you are an absolute legend.  Thank you so much for this.

@rocade the difference is that my time abroad  extends way beyond 30 days (validation duration of the policia federal paper certificate) AND my application will be in the approved state, but i will not be able to attend the FP appointment within the 30 day window.   

I guess i will just book my FP appt for when i return and hope there is no issue and use my expired CRNM card and a print out of the DOU to try and re-enter the country. 

Any other suggestions?

@scottandreas This is really new for me too, and very tight situations time wise! :-)

- If it's Publicado before the trip, I'd definitely try to make it to Policia Federal. Once you have a Protocolo it's as good as an ID.

- Otherwise, you'll probably have to print what you have and explain. And meanwhile we may have other updates here so you will know what to expect before you're back.

- Re-entering the country shouldn't be a problem either way. Theoretically if you didn't renew your residence and left, you could still come back as a tourist.

*

Btw I have this problem on expat.com, I cannot edit or correct my posts, send DM's, etc. Sorry for the mess.

@rocade Thanks again for tour reply and advice.  ill keep you posted as I navigate these unchartted waters.

@scottandreas

Based off the time frame @rocade mentioned (mine was similar) I think you should have time to get the Protocolo before you go. Mine was publicado within 3 days of being approved but my flight was the day after it got approved.

I printed the relatorio certidao tramite and the pdf showing my approval for the renewal. When I flew out of SP, I asked the person at passport control if I'd have any issues coming back. He asked how long my trip was and I told him (a couple of weeks) and he said it would be fine, to just show these documents on the way back.

I imagine he asked that because of the 30 day rule but I didn't ask any further questions after that. I've found them to be pretty understanding, generally speaking, but in your case I'd definitely recommend trying to get the protocolo before you go if possible.

Thanks @sovelong.   I really appreciate your reply and insights here.  In the event that I dont get my protocol in time.  I only have 5 remaining business days.  My problem will be that my trip extends far beyond the 30 day time limit.  Hopefully they let me slide.  Ill let you guys know how I go.  Thanks again.  So helpful!

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for this forum and insight. I am currently on the migrant web, starting the process. My DN visa expires on August 26th. I will be out of Brazil, all of August. I am starting the process now.

Maybe you all can help with some issues:

1. STEP 2: Representante Legal - This option is showing up as required and I don't have anyone to put.
2. STEP 3: https://www.gov.br/pf/pt-br/assuntos/an … -criminais - I am not able to generate anything? Any tips for getting the 2 needed police records?
3. STEP 3: Is my passport the Documento de Viagem? or my Visto Seal on my passport?

@leleflowah Hi there!

• Step 2: Leaving empty Represantesante legal should give a "yellow" warning and not "red" so you should be able to ignore and skip it.
• Which state are you in and what is the problem you face when you are trying to get the police records?
• Yes, it is the ID page of your passport.

@rocade

• I live in Sao Paulo, Brazil. Jardim da Glória/ Aclimação area
• Okay, thank you!
• I got it to work!! Thank you

Hello group, just an inquiry of the processing times which obviously seem to be quite long as you have posted here. My renewal of DN visa is "em trâmite" ( already 2 months) and my previous visa is expiring in August 17th. I'm leaving to Europe for a visit and I return before the expiry date in my residente card. Is everything going to be ok in the border? I have everything set up for gathering my documents, pay for the GRU etc and will do the visit to Federal police when I arrive back to Brazil. Do I have to present my residente card and passport at the border and a print of the processo? I must admit that the check is always raising my anxiety levels so want that everything is ok.

@Pantai79 and actually realized here from your posts that there is a 30 days time to perform the Policia Federal appointment from being publicado. I haven't got the answer yet and my trip was supposed to be 45 days and now I just hope the processo will be delayed for another month so that I don't have to buy new flight tickets back before the actual planned arrival.

My residency is valid until August so there's no problem to come back but the shitty 30 days time limit makes everything complicated.