Banking Fraud

05/28/23.  Good advice from sprealestatebroker.

Personally, I assume that any Banco24Horas ATM and any ATM on the premises of any retail store is contaminated, and avoid them.  Machines in a bank lobby under 24 hour surveillance are much safer, but not 100% foolproof, as the story above shows. 

Put your card and money away while still standing at the machine:  the person behind you can spare five more seconds.  And be alert on exiting the premises, especially an enclosed kiosk.  My husband was robbed twice in São Paulo in those circumstances by armed men who sped up on motorcycles, pointed guns and demanded his money, then sped away.

This spring my card was ‘copied’ (or whatever the word is), thankfully they tried to use it in Florida, so my bank immediately blocked it. I still don’t know where or how it was copied, but I was told the safest way to pay is to use cards through your phone. Something about a random number generated each time you use it.

@abthree i have found using my US credit cards is better than transferring money over to brazil account. I heard the dangers of using ATMs and by your husband's experience, I can see why. Now I just use my credit card and and just pay it off before the statement closes.

@sprealestatebroker

All spot on advice @sprealestatebroker

Last year this time two guys ran a scam on my mother-in-law in a Bradesco ATM lobby in Sao Paulo. They got out the door and went in two different directions. I got lucky and chased the one with the cash down, held him, and called out for the police. Luckily they came and we got her money back (R$2500).

Before someone says "you're stupid, you could have been shot" I know, but I also know it would have been damn hard to live with myself if I had done nothing. Would I do it differently, yes, but on that day I took action and now there's one a****le who is going to think twice before he pulls that s**t again.

Side note: this was right before the bank opened. Busy Friday morning. Bank employees stood there and watched the chaos like a tv show from behind the office glass and did nothing, so have no illusions that anyone with help you if something like this goes down.

Another side note: I  don't bank there, but I like the fact that most Itau branches I see require you to swipe an Itau bank card to enter the ATM lobby. I think that is smart.

My question for @sprealestatebroker (this branch which I call the wild west because it is right by a metro station) now has biometric palm readers and is closed on weekends. Do you think there are still opportunities for these kinds of things to take place?

All this being said, I don't want to scare people on this forum about life in São Paulo. I love it here! I love this city. I just drove 20 minutes north and was hiking in an absolute brilliant native Atlantic Forrest, Serra De Cantereira. It's a must go. Made sweeter by the contrast of life in the city.

Last year, when I was here for three months May-July (before moving here permanently), there were over 13 mass shootings in the United States. Since moving here in November 2022 in two unrelated incidences, two kids were stabbed at the high school in my neighborhood (one parished) and a group fight of over 100 students took place in the middle school of the same neighborhood. This is Santa Rosa, CA!

A neat trick to evade the Chip ID theft, which isn't safety proof....

Buy one of those metal encased wallets. The Chip emits a RFID signal, and obviously, tap in chips do so.

You need to understand that every piece of technology devised towards retail is aimed at speeding the process and facilitating transaction.   Cumbersome and safer process are avoided by design, as merchants might not  be enticed to adopt any safer tech that takes longer to process. Speed is key to get the money in.

On the legal side, the Payment Processing  Industry ( aka credit card banners such as VISA, Master Card, AMEX, Discovery ) , by obligation has a Safety Standard called PCI-DSS, but it  does little to cover liability of your retail bank and the merchant. 

They have some  pre set standards at the POS, mostly for concealing account numbers ( hashing ), but they are legally shielded from liability by design, fully knowing RFID or swipe aren't as safe.

So the burden in on the consumer.  Banks, at time, might cover losses.   Hence why you need to have a Mortar & Brick banking..   

Another way to dodge losses is to transfer amounts in account towards pre loaded debit cards, a initiative Banks don't encourage as much as they should.

And it is called, Stored Value Cards, which you can get in any banner.  Check if your retail bank carries this product.