Cost of living in Brazil 2023

Well, I'm starting to see a trend here for having a different opinion. Anything that doesn't agree with the narrative of rah, rah, everything is wonderful blah blah.... is considered dumb and foolish. Surprised by this turn of events. Most of you appear in retirement mode and thus your mind is quite biased in your thoughts. I'm not in retirement mode and have zero interest in just sitting around in a cheap place just live out the remaining of my life. That is sad. Remember though this is my assessment. So relax. None of you can ever convince me that living outside Sao Paulo, Campinas, Rio or much of the south(You know the places) is worth it. How do I know? I visited  Almost all the places I'm describing as unlivable. The North is stunning but backwards,lacks good restaurants, world class entertainment and most importantly the people are quite literally rednecks of Brazil. Is that even Portuguese?? Infrastructure also lacks from what I saw.  The same is true for the small towns outside Sao Paulo. Of course there are a ton of Resorts on the Beach. I'm NOT talking about these New year Travel destinations for the Paulista people lol. They are in a Bubble. The Heat is unbearable and the lack of air conditioning very annoying.

Remember Guys I offer a different perspective to the "everything is Great crowd" here . This is healthy and engaging. Me having a different opinion on this is fine by me as I usually don't follow the crowd anyways.

Cheers,

@expat5000

Tonight we had a couple of American friends round for dinner, who have had a house in Brazil for over 10 years, and I put your concepts to them. Simple dinner of marinated chicken in a garlic, tomato, onion, and home-grown basil sauce, with penne pasta dressed in a light cheese sauce, with coleslaw, and rocket and cherry tomato salad in a homemade vinegratte dressing, and a garlic and chili toast side - nothing too fancy, (as I am sure you will appreciate) and all locally sourced. Indeed, fine dining by my standards...no need to order delivery from SP, for me! Plus lots of Brazilian beer,  great (Argentinian and Chilean) wine and, of course British G+T to start!

They could not disagree your comments more (they are from Washington state). They explained at length how you are miles off in comparing prices with the USA - but they did offer an explanation. That you are getting royally ripped off - and hugely so!

Maybe it is not us who are "dumb and foolish", as they said to me?.

@expat5000 Just to re-iterate - I appreciate your feedback.  Next year will be the first time for me to be in RIo and I might be totally seduced by the city.  So, your comments are not falling on deaf ears.

But yes, I am really not good at getting people on the same page and sing "kumbaya".  That's one of my flaws - and I am ok with that.

Again, thank you for giving your opinions.

@expat5000

They also asked me to explain that I was once the third largest employer in my brazilian city, that I have built 2 separate beachfront developments each of 16 x 3 bed low rise apartments, I have bought, renovated and sold over 100 other properties, and encouraged millions and millions of reais of international investment. Oh, and I also support local charities to the extent that they totaly rely on me - because I choose to.... because that is what I want o do,

Now wake up and smell the coffee. My friend - you are getting screwed...

@Peter Itamaraca You cooked at home. What does this prove?

Your friends are going to think just like you. This is why they are your friends. I wouldn't expect anything less, even if they disagree with you. The prices compared to the USA are not exact and do vary by region but all in all Sao Paulo, Campinas, Rio and the some of the south are quite similar. I'm shocked I even have to say this in repeating order. Small example. There is a pizza place in Sao Paulo called BRAZ. The pizza is good pizza but a normal size pizza "14 is like 100 reis. That same pizza in the USA at almost any place except maybe parts of New York, is around 75 Reis. It's Pizza. Burgers in Pinheiros(where I stayed) are around 38 to 45reis or$7.6 to $9 per burger. In the USA I can get an excellent In and out Burger for under $7.60 I have many other examples  as I compared while living there. Meat is 80% exact same price as the USA, unless you choose a lower quality place with so so ambiance. 

Lets get something clear. I never got taken by Brazil or Brazilians. Because I have never bought a property there YET. The only thing maybe I got scammed out of was a high priced meal in Jardins but then again I knew this and loved the Ambiance. So not scammed. I was simply looking around and noticing the prices compared to the USA. Again very similar. There is a grocery store in Sao Paulo called Quitanda. It's like a Whole Foods. The prices there are insane lol. Most everything there is the same as the USA, except the produce and bread mind you.  But the Areas that they reside are the places I desire. You understand?

Again this is the perspective of a person that wants to be in the best area possible in Brazil in each city, because outside of this it's quite sad. This you will pay up, including the real estate. This is my point and to be honest I sense an attitude of disregard in my findings here. I'm now seeing non of you actually live in the areas I'm talking about. This makes this conversation kinda pointless, unless somebody actually wants to live there and is reading this.

I used to live in Austin TX, and now live in Balneario Camboriu, SC.  I would guess most people would think BC is a higher cost of living area in Brazil.

I have found my cost of living is far lower.  Some things are directly less expensive, such as Uber, restaurants, groceries, services and labor (cleaning, private classes, plumbers, electricians, etc..).  Some things are indirectly less expensive.  For example, my electric bill is WAY less.  I don't need heating and AC all the time here because the climate is comfortable almost year round.  I also am able to walk most places, so gasoline and car maintenance is less.

Some things are more expensive, like electronics and imported items, but those items I purchase less frequently and make up a smaller portion of my budget.

I would guestimate day-to-day living expenses for me are 40-60% of my similar US costs.

Here are some directly comparable examples:

Ground beef at this Texas based grocer is $4.77/lb.  Converted to Reais (using 5BRL to 1USD conversion rate) and Kilos it's about R$52.47/Kilo.  It's the cheapest brand they offer:

https://www.heb.com/product-detail/hill-country-fare-ground-beef-73-lean-1-lb/312963

Here's a local grocery in Brazil.  At the time of writing ground beef is R$24.49/Kilo (it's on sale, but usually 28-30/kilo):

https://www.superkoch.com.br/lombo-bovino-moido-kg-9722

Limes, US Price converted is R$28.49, Brazil price is R$6.49 (note the US example is a 2lb bag, so I multiplied the price by 1.1 then 5 to convert to Kilos and reais)

https://www.heb.com/product-detail/h-e-b-fresh-limes-2-lb-bag/5695009

https://www.superkoch.com.br/limao-taiti-kg-8386

Chicken breasts (USD/LB converted to BRL/Kilo) R$45.54 vs the Brazil price of R$16.99

https://www.heb.com/product-detail/hill-country-fare-boneless-skinless-thin-sliced-chicken-breasts-avg-1-78-lbs/459035

https://www.superkoch.com.br/file-de-peito-frango-sadia-1kg-11555

Carrots, R$9.02 vs R$3.49

https://www.heb.com/product-detail/h-e-b-whole-carrots-2-lb-bag/4833553

https://www.superkoch.com.br/cenoura-kg-8373

30 count of eggs, BRL$37.55 vs BRL$15.89

https://www.heb.com/product-detail/h-e-b-cage-free-extra-large-brown-eggs-30-ct/9296015

https://www.superkoch.com.br/ovos-vermelhos-bj-c-30-70938

Of course, the list could go on and on. 

I think everyone would agree Uber is cheaper.

I have found internet and mobile phone plan costs to be much less.

Most, if not all, streaming services are cheaper, usually by a lot  (Netflix is USD$15.49 vs BRL$39.90, which is basically half cost). I just got a message yesterday from Audible.com.  Normally I pay USD$14.99/month.  now they're available in Brazil, where the plan is BRL$19.90/month; basically USD$4/month.

I don't have referenceable restaurant prices, but I find those generally less expensive as well.  Especially higher end restaurants. I find I can take out a group of 4 and pay between 250-400 reais. That's 50-80USD, for4 people at a (subjectively) high end restaurant. Some of that is related to the fact many such places in Brazil serve plates intended for two.

I agree with Expat5000 that burgers are usually 38-45 reais; its the same for me in BC.  I would say at that price point, the comparable would not be in and out burger, but a fast casual restaurant.  Usually those prices include waitstaff service where in-and-out does not. I just checked Chili's restaurant price; I used the Mushroom Swiss burger meal as a comparable.  It's USD$12.29, or about BRL$61.45. 

I don't have a good reference for pizza, and I don't eat it often these days.  Pizza here may be slightly more in some cases.  I'm not sure it's directly comparable.  I would say most of the pizza I have gotten in Brazil is better than the typical chains in the US, but it's been a while. That said, I found this website with Dominos US prices (allegedly; I didn't go through the trouble of connecting to my VPN to check the actual Dominos US site).  It says an Ultimate Pepperoni Feast pizza, Small, 10 inches, is USD$11.99 or about BRL$60. This local place has a rating according to google of 4.7 stars.  Their 25CM (9.8 inches) Calabresa is BRL$21.99:

https://www.thepizzalads.com/dominos-menu-prices-usa-dominos-pizza-prices-united-states/

https://popbc.menudino.com/?gclid=Cj0KCAjwnOipBhBQEi0ACyGLuj7Xepfw0v6wYN8Z2JpCXuduJR3W4BnE71KdNmlYS3ozkoDoku-Rlc8aAiKcEALw_wcB

@expat5000

Shall we try to end this farce, as you appear to be in a minority of one, and we ought to give readers balanced opinions and advice?

I think I now understand where you are coming from: you CHOOSE to live in a very expensive area in one of the most expensive cities in South America, where property prices and rents are naturally astronomical. This forces restaurants, shops, etc to charge more because they have to cover these higher costs, and also because they believe their clients can easily afford to pay more.

But your experiences of your choice to live in a very affluent area, is not representative of the rest of Brazil as we have been trying to explain to you. A better comparison, for example, might be to look at the internationally accepted MacDonalds Price Rankings by Country Index.

There you will see that the USA is rated 11th most expensive and way down the list in position 53 is Brazil - over 30% cheaper than the USA. Just one example, I agree, but I think it shows you what the real cost of living in Brazil is, rather than where you have chosen to live.

dupe post

Thank you all for your feedback so far.  Keep more coming, if possible.        -@Pablo888

IMHO Brasil is a country where you can find more personal enjoyment if you live like a local, and not like you are in Miami. If I wanted to continue living the higher end lifestyle like I do in Canada, I'd have stayed here, or moved somewhere else.

However, I'd rather be invisible, and enjoy myself.

You've got to be willing to spend money to live in either Sampa or Rio, even as a gringo. The locals there have it harder, unless they are living in their own, or a family owned property. We easily get by on R$6,000 a month (our condo and IPTU combined is R$900 a month), but still, our income is much more than that.

Lot's of classic high end buildings on Atlantica have beachfront high rise condo's for sale that are 250-300 m2 with "original decorating"..........."perfeito para modernizar"..........as the corretor would say. Families die and kids inherit them. They cannot afford to spend R$500,000 to renovate, and then pay R$2,500-3,500 a month condo fees and IPTU.......plus electricity.......heh. They'd rather try and sell it for $2-3-4-5 million reais to someone who will.

Me ? I'm happy with the renovation cost being invested in our condo four blocks away, and spending the rest......slowly. We are all equal on the beach, ne ?

my 5 cents, if you sad sacks allow me to....

1.Your grocery expenses follow your zip / postal code. The more afluent it is, the more expensive it becomes.

So instead of choosing to buy/rent in an expat enclave, opt to go for a less trendy location. 

2.,Rent x b uy.  First off.... USD 50,000 to 100,000 will only cut if you dig deeper, granted you are to live in a large metropolitan Area.

For instance....   If you are on Rio, you won't find anything decent unless you move off Ipanema/Copacabana/Leblon/Urca/Barra/Sao Conrado/Recreio/Botafogo/Lagoa.   You still can find decent places to buy or rent  such as Madureira, Bangu, Downtown, Sao Cristovao, Ilha do Governador, Santa Teresa, Lapa.

Same for Sao Paulo. Foirget Jardins, Itaim Bibi, Perdizes, Bela Vista, Vila Madalena, Vila Mariana, Pinheiros, Aclimacao,Brooklin. 

Hello Ipiranga, Lower Mooca, Campos Eliseos, Barra Funda, Lapa, Cambuci, Bom Retiro.

Also,, on the above referenced neighborhoods, you can forgo condo fees. Lots of duplex rowhouses can be found,, clean and affordable, on decent neighbohroods. Not expats enclave, but you need to assimilate anyways.   

If you live by the City, then skip owning a car. Public Transportation, Taxicabs.  So, rule of thumb.... 10 minutes on foot towards your commuter rail or subway stop.

Eating out.... Get used to lunch counters. Meaning, "Comercial Executivo" with a Hot buffet thrown in for a change. Skip fine dining, cook instead of take out.

@expat5000

I go out every day. The groceries getting delivered is mostly a once a month general thing, but I still go to the local supermarket for various things almost every day of the week. The restaurants have gotten used to my regular orders. I visit the markets and night fairs. I go to almost every event that's held here. I play cards with the locals once a week, maybe more. I get out here more than I did in many other places. The language barrier is a lot easier to overcome because people are so friendly here. I wait with bated breath for your next round of assumptions about the fine folks of this thread.

10/26/23  We went to one of our hellish Third World Manaus restaurants tonight to celebrate a friend's birthday.  It's a Small Plates restaurant that specializes in the cuisine of Northeastern Brazil.  Unaccountably, it's air conditioned.  My husband had the hors d'oeuvres rodízio, I had the seafood rodízio, with my usual two 600 ml beers, estupidamente geladas.  As always, the service was smiling and friendly -- they know us well, but people in the North tend to just be like that anyway.  Total tab -- R$196.  Our life is certainly one horror after another. 

There was live music, and while the musician's name really WAS Rodrigo, I doubt that either his shirt or his shoes would have made him seem unacceptable, even in São Paulo or Rio. 😂

@abthree"There was live music, and while the musician's name really WAS Rodrigo" LOL Just wait until he gets home LOL ...you know I'm just kidding about those guys. Brazilian people are probably the most friendly I have ever encountered around the world. having said that I prefer the upper middle to upper class Brazilians as I feel I relate more to them and the upper class usually know English quite nicely. I have to admit I have zero interest in learning Portuguese past the basics so this is very important to me.  Plus these Brazilians think like me in regards to Brazil etc. Yeah I know, shocking right LOL.

Skip fine dining, cook instead of take out.
   

    -@sprealestatebroker

Amen to that.  I think that the first study that linked obesity with finely processed food was from Brazil.  If you can cook the food that you like, it is healthier to do so as you will not be using the usual flavoring / preservatives / emulsifiers / finely processed food that makes takeout or dining out food look good but tricks your brain into over-eating.  The Brazilian study that I mentioned recommended to eat whatever you want to eat but if you avoid highly processed foods when you cook at home, you will be much healthier.

Most, if not all, streaming services are cheaper, usually by a lot  (Netflix is USD$15.49 vs BRL$39.90, which is basically half cost). I just got a message yesterday from Audible.com.  Normally I pay USD$14.99/month.  now they're available in Brazil, where the plan is BRL$19.90/month; basically USD$4/month.

    -@BRBC

@BBRC, I'm curious about the Brazilian Audible. Does it have the full catalog one finds in the USA? ..... and is the Brazilian collection large or limited. I have not found many Brazilians interested in hearing books, something that was once the highlight of my commutes to and from work in the USA. I can't really crank up a book in my car as, most often, the riders are Portuguese-only folks and/or they simply talk [loudly] thus making attention to any book impossible. I'd LOVE to get a source of diverse and current books-in-Portuguese to tempt those around me - and I'd love to cut my Audible-USA costs.

@mberigan

I have to admit I have zero interest in learning Portuguese past the basics so this is very important to me.  Plus these Brazilians think like me in regards to Brazil etc. Yeah I know, shocking right LOL.        -@expat5000

Then why are you here ? You belong in MIami with those other Brasilians because those who really think like you say, normally live there.

Serious question, not being offensive here, I am curious more than anything.......lot's of warm places down south with super nice people, who ALL SPEAK ENGLISH, where expats who want to hang out with other people like themselves can go.

If you go outside of your small circle, and it is really small if you knew the truth, you'd see and experience the real charm of the country if you spoke Portuguese fluently. I tell people that the only english speakers in Brasil are "generally" just the prostitutes, street thieves, and the one guy the hotel hired.

If it's females you are after, the ones you will find are all "Maria Chuteras".........or "picaretas"........at the level where you state that you are operating in. If you don't know what those two terms mean which I suspect, ask one of your girlfriends if they are one.

It seems to me like you are not committed to the country, and that it is just a temporary place to stay. I mean that's fine, but I am still confused.

The LAST THING I WANT TO DO is hang out with expats in Brasil, or other people perceived to be like me in Brasil.

2.,Rent x buy.  First off.... USD 50,000 to 100,000 will only cut if you dig deeper, granted you are to live in a large metropolitan Area. For instance....   If you are on Rio, you won't find anything decent unless you move off Ipanema/Copacabana/Leblon/Urca/Barra/Sao Conrado/Recreio/Botafogo/Lagoa.   You still can find decent places to buy or rent  such as Madureira, Bangu, Downtown, Sao Cristovao, Ilha do Governador, Santa Teresa, Lapa.@sprealestatebroker

In Copacabana where I live in my $100K apartment, or Botafogo, there are places.

You need to look at about 50+ online or more before going to physically see one however. It took us a year to buy our place........and the beach apartment in Cabo Frio or Buzios we are looking for now, will probably take just as long. Sifting thru the overpriced apartments for sale takes time............a lot of time.

  In Copacabana where I live in my $100K apartment, or Botafogo, there are places. You need to look at about 50+ online or more before going to physically see one however. It took us a year to buy our place........and the beach apartment in Cabo Frio or Buzios we are looking for now, will probably take just as long. Sifting thru the overpriced apartments for sale takes time............a lot of time.        -@Gasparzinho 777

I think that "Rent prior to buy" is a really good plan.  We did that here and it paid off well for us and now that we're planning on moving, that's the plan again.

As I've mentioned, Rio is not high on our list, but it's not off the list either:  as my grandmother always used to say, "You go where your bread and butter are!"  I've always been enchanted with Santa Tereza, and the last time we were in Rio we were both quite taken with Humaitá, under the flank of Corcovado.  We'd probably start our househunting in those places.  Any thoughts?

@mberigan

Hello,

Here's the email I received.  I have not called them to switch over yet, but yes I believe most of the USA catalog is available based on the sentence I bolded:

"We have noticed you have an Audible.com subscription. We have amazing news for you: Audible is now in Brazil! The stories you already love and new ones to find. Your Audible subscription includes more than 100,000 titles, including 4,000 titles in Portuguese for just R$ 19,90/month. In addition to the titles available with your subscription, you also get 30% off purchases of any additional catalog title. There are 600,000 audiobooks for you to build your perfect library.

If you migrate your account to the Brazil marketplace now, you’ll also get a 50% discount for your first 3 months of membership (R$ 9,95/month for the first 3 months, then R$ 19,90/month thereafter). To migrate your account and take advantage of this offer, get in contact with our customer support or reach us at our customer support link."

Hope this helps.

      In Copacabana where I live in my $100K apartment, or Botafogo, there are places. You need to look at about 50+ online or more before going to physically see one however. It took us a year to buy our place........and the beach apartment in Cabo Frio or Buzios we are looking for now, will probably take just as long. Sifting thru the overpriced apartments for sale takes time............a lot of time.        -@Gasparzinho 777I think that "Rent prior to buy" is a really good plan.  We did that here and it paid off well for us and now that we're planning on moving, that's the plan again. As I've mentioned, Rio is not high on our list, but it's not off the list either:  as my grandmother always used to say, "You go where your bread and butter are!"  I've always been enchanted with Santa Tereza, and the last time we were in Rio we were both quite taken with Humaitá, under the flank of Corcovado.  We'd probably start our househunting in those places.  Any thoughts?        -@abthree

Yeah, staying in an aparthotel for a month in an area you are interested in makes a lot of sense.

IMHO, as well as that of my wife who is a Carioca, you should forget Santa Tereza altogether, and look at Humaita. ST has way too much street level crime, too many favelas. For example the favela of Tabajares is about 5-6 blocks from my place in Copacabana (nothing wrong with favelas, but, when you've got too many around it's another story), the topography of ST is way too hilly for me.....etc......traffic is a bitch, and it's kinda run down today, although they are trying to improve that.

Humaita is close to all the popular south zone barrios, and as a result has better access everywhere and is much more secure.  My wife didn't even think twice when she replied.

@BRBC

Thanks. It did help. I used the callback feature and spoke with a rep who was very helpful. I plan to migrate as soon as I use up my last credit (need to have downloaded all books in one's library to keep them).

4000 Portuguese titles isn't many titles but, who knows, maybe they'll amp-up focus on getting more books converted. That would be a huge benefit for sight-impaired folks as well as those not inclined to read a physical book - not to mention the crazy traffic jams that can happen (thinking João Pessoa and Recife).

@mberigan

@Gasparzinho 777 Oh NO I despise Miami as it's Fake and people are not friendly like Brazil. Big difference. The Brazilans I know have great families in Brazil, Know English and like a great lifestyle. Please don't confuse great lifestyle with Miami type activities. This is NOT what I want or the Brazlians I know. These Brazilians WANT to live in Brazil for a portion of the year and then maybe somewhere in Europe or California the other 6 months out of the year. It's a Goal worth striving for. Brazil is NOT a place to live long term as the issues that arise are annoying and getting away and appreciating Brazil is needed for a refresh. I'm NOT currently in Brazil at the moment, so you can see that I'm not complaining while living there. My way of thinking is rare and to be honest is very refreshing when other people agree with me(i.e friends in Sao Paulo). The one thing that made me very frustrated living in Sao Paulo was the obvious income inequality. It's very strong there and some day maybe it will get better. However it's not likely as it's ingrained in the society there. Getting into the club(so to speak) can be a tough nut to crack.  There is also a TON of nepotism in Sao Paulo that is quite frankly off the charts. Another issue that is quite glaring. This produces the high prices we see there, as these people have no limit. However, once again I must stress, that living in Sao Paulo or Rio is very addicting and as a human, it's something that sticks with you for the rest of your life.

@Gasparzinho 777 NO I do not engage with Expats as they usually never think like me and it's best left alone. There are alot of hippie type expats that quite frankly kinda disgust me. I avoid Expats. No offense to anyone here mind you.  While in Brazil engage with Brazil and it's people ONLY. This is my advice.

I've visited 50 countries, and lived long term in 4, so, I get the attraction of moving around every 3-6 months. We have a lot of Canadians who live in the southern US for months on end, or Mexico. But, I just cannot bring myself to leave Brasil anymore after 20 years of travel.

I don't find myself getting to any point where I need to get away from it all, that's why we have multiple small properties in different areas rather than a "mansao" in some gated "Alpha Ville" style community.  That'd be like living in suburban Canada but on the other side of the world. "Been there, done that, right ?" Our environment can constantly be changed, even with a cheap flight somewhere in country if we want too.

The average "legoland" quality house in my Canadian city is worth $650K.
    -@Gasparzinho 777

@Gasparzinho777, I am wondering how much foreign buying is contributing to the increase in real estate prices in Brazil. 

Here is why I am asking: at the end of the last century, my house in the neighborhood of Vancouver BC (5000 sq ft custom built) was around CAD$300K.  As soon as the year 2000 turned around, the same house went from 330K to 1.2M owing to foreign ownership from China mainly.  The Vancouver CDN home prices never went back down.

In Canada, the influx of Asia money (caused by HK reverting to China for example or just cash being stashed) created a real price inflation and that's why locals are having difficulties buying a decent home.

In your search, do you feel that foreign money influx is causing real estate price inflation in Brazil?  Housing is obviously the biggest component of the cost of living.

@Pablo888

Good question. In my opinion the answer is very, very little - basically due to the simple fact there are far more Brazilian buyers in Brazil than foreign ones. Prices are driven by demand, and if supply falls sort of demand then expect big price increases - as in all markets. But foreign buyers in Brazil make up such a minute percentage of the overall market as to have zero impact on market prices, with a few, very specific, examples. Otherwise Brazilian buyers control prices.

One such might be Pipa in Rio Grande de Norte (but I am sure there are others). European surfer dudes discovered it in the 70's and 80's, and set up camp there, spreading the word. Later came people from Argentina and elsewhere, then Brazilians caught the culture and also joined in. Now there are great international influences, not least seen in the great variety of restaurants. Here the market could be said to be affected by foreign buyers, but, due to the ad hoc nature of record keeping at the time, most original property deed records were lost and most is now owned by possesssion rather than legal title...

Of course, absolutely nothing to do with what they were smoking at the time...!

@Pablo888

Another consideration, if I may: currency exchange.

I recall 2 American guys bought a really nice beach house here (4 suites, beachfront, pool, 2 lots, outside kitchen, etc, etc), about 12 years ago, for about R$400,000. Then the USD was about 1.6, so it cost them some $250,000.

I would value that house now certainly in excess of 1.2 million reais - an increase of 300% over 13 years. Not bad, you might say.

But today the exchange rate is about 5.0, so that 1.2 million reais, when converted back into dollars is around US$240,000. So did they make a huge profit over these years of R$800,000, or lose USD10,000?

The answer? Buy when your cuurency is high, sell when it is low...

10/28/23    @Pablo888
But today the exchange rate is about 5.0, so that 1.2 million reais, when converted back into dollars is around US$240,000. So did they make a huge profit over these years of R$800,000, or lose USD10,000?

The answer? Buy when your cuurency is high, sell when it is low...
   

    -@Peter Itamaraca

We're looking at selling and moving in the next year or so, and I expect to be in exactly that situation:  a BRL gain and a USD loss.  I take some comfort in the fact that owning over the past five years has saved us a ton compared to paying rent for equal digs for the same period.

The answer? Buy when your cuurency is high, sell when it is low...
    -@Peter Itamaraca

Thank you for the new insight.... And I thought that buying real estate would shield me from the fluctuations of the market - and here is a typical case where you win in the local market and lose in the world market all because of FX effects.

a BRL gain and a USD loss.
    -@abthree

Interesting to know how to file taxes in such cases.  Since US is based on world income, do you file for the capital gain in Brazil or do you convert into USD and claim a loss in the US?

Will certainly make for interesting conversation with your tax accountant.....

    a BRL gain and a USD loss.     -@abthree

Interesting to know how to file taxes in such cases.  Since US is based on world income, do you file for the capital gain in Brazil or do you convert into USD and claim a loss in the US?
Will certainly make for interesting conversation with your tax accountant.....
   

    -@Pablo888

My US tax guy has had it easy for the past few years, he should be ready for a little challenge.

I give my Brazilian accountant my US return, our Brazilian bank activity, and a few other documents.  She does some black magic - incense and sacrificing a chicken may be involved, but I'm not sure - and tells me what to pay.  It's been working so far.

She does some black magic - incense and sacrificing a chicken may be involved, but I'm not sure - and tells me what to pay.  It's been working so far.
   

    -@abthree... Great answer and very culturally fitting....  Would love to experience that first-hand one day....

@expat5000 Enjoy! My different opinion is that I live in North Eastern Brazil in a small village of 2,500 in a senior retirement complex created by my Brazilian wife of 23+ years with my 96+ year old Brazilian 2nd. mother and our live-in caretaker. My wife is very popular in the community and they are very friendly. We all have separate houses and after living in MD. for over 20 years I have no regrets and nothing but a very, very positive attitude. We are also only 20 minutes from Jericoacoara, which has one of the most beautiful beaches on earth.

Roddie in Retirement

@Peter Itamaraca ...Not just any coffee, but fine Brazilian Coffee.

Roddie in Retirement

@expat5000 I think we all live in places that we love. It is the Mind Set that is different. We see the glass as half full and overflowing.

Roddie in Retirement

@expat5000 I think you just pulled on Superman's Cape. You MUST be new here.

@abthree"There was live music, and while the musician's name really WAS Rodrigo" LOL Just wait until he gets home LOL ...you know I'm just kidding about those guys. Brazilian people are probably the most friendly I have ever encountered around the world. having said that I prefer the upper middle to upper class Brazilians as I feel I relate more to them and the upper class usually know English quite nicely. I have to admit I have zero interest in learning Portuguese past the basics so this is very important to me.  Plus these Brazilians think like me in regards to Brazil etc. Yeah I know, shocking right LOL.

    -@expat5000

Roddie in Retirement

-@Gasparzinho 777@Gasparzinho777, I am wondering how much foreign buying is contributing to the increase in real estate prices in Brazil.  In your search, do you feel that foreign money influx is causing real estate price inflation in Brazil?  Housing is obviously the biggest component of the cost of living.        -@Pablo888

As I live in Alberta. I am all to aware of the BC market.

Honestly speaking, I cannot suggest foreigners buying RE in Brasil has contributed to anything really in terms of value appreciation.

Everybody I talk to thinks you'll get robbed and/or killed in your first week here.......let's keep it that way.

I believe the Brasilian mindset, having been thru 4-5 different currencies since 1970 is the main factor as they want to own real assets. Second to that is the emergence of mortgage lending, and while not on the level of debt accumulation like NA consumers are using, it can be part of the reason.

Second to that is the emergence of mortgage lending, and while not on the level of debt accumulation like NA consumers are using, it can be part of the reason.
        -@Gasparzinho 777

@Gasparzinho777 - Oh, I see that the mortgage rates are relatively high when compared to US / CDN standards. 

I think that it is a good thing that the investment visa is bringing more cash into the country rather than adding further leverage to the finances of the country.

Thank you for the info.

The USA GOV and the FED has absolutely destroyed the housing affordability. Along with the FED the American people are obsessed with housing on a level that is quite unhealthy.Buying a Home in the USA is still not bad compared income relativity compared to the world but the American Dream is for sure over for now. Rodrigo can no longer come to the USA work hard as a waiter or have two jobs and then buy a house. You can forget about this. Ok waiit, maybe he can in Oklahoma lol. 8% Mortgage rates and a housing bubble that has eclipsed the 2008 Housing bubble and Rodrigo should now stay in Brazil. That 200-400k Reis apartment is looking mighty nice to him. in Brazil. However his income of 5k reis a month is a no go, so he's screwed either way, just the way the Elites want it.

P.S. I actually do know a Rodrigo lol

    @expat5000 I think you just pulled on Superman's Cape. You MUST be new here.
@abthree"There was live music, and while the musician's name really WAS Rodrigo" LOL Just wait until he gets home LOL ...you know I'm just kidding about those guys. Brazilian people are probably the most friendly I have ever encountered around the world. having said that I prefer the upper middle to upper class Brazilians as I feel I relate more to them and the upper class usually know English quite nicely. I have to admit I have zero interest in learning Portuguese past the basics so this is very important to me.  Plus these Brazilians think like me in regards to Brazil etc. Yeah I know, shocking right LOL.

    -@expat5000
Roddie in Retirement-@roddiesho

Good one, Roddie! 😂

Actually, I feel much better about this guy now.  He has no interest in living in Brazil or understanding Brazil at any meaningful level (the "zero interest in learning Portuguese" clinched it for me, although I was already pretty sure.)  He just wants to visit Brazil Land, the Disney-style, Brazil-influenced theme park where everybody is rich, speaks English, the streets are clean, and the money may look funny, but you have to spend just as much of it as in the USA.  That's cool.  I was concerned that he'd find himself in the wrong place at the wrong time the way he was going, but he'll probably get tired of Brazil Land before his luck runs out.  🤞🏻