Bank account for non residents

I am not sure this would work but could you open an international account where you are with HSBC and transfer it to them in brazil as they have branches too.

Not sure if it's possible...???

    Hi all,
I really need insight. 
We sold a property and the proceeds were deposited into a joint Caixa Economica Savings account. I want to transfer my share of the money into an account in my name, but since I am not currently in Brazil, I am unable to open a regular account to transfer the funds. I need a solution as soon as possible, but I'm unsure of how to proceed. I just need a temporary account to hold my money (around Rs 110k) until I am able to physically open an account in Brazil. I have looked into options such as Nubank and Banco Rendimento, but I am hesitant to use them as I am concerned about the possibility of funds being locked in the future and being unable to transfer them once I open a regular bank account. Is there any other option available to me besides travelling to Brazil, which is not ideal at the moment? What are the drawbacks/red flags of these alternatives.
I'm feeling a sense of urgency and therefore I'm actively seeking options.
Thanks
Kat
   

    -@Kat2202

Hi Kat - couple of quick questions:

Are you certain that your joint bank account was opened with each of you (or you alone) being a signatory separately - ie not requiring both signatures? The fact that you signed some forms at the time of opening the account does not guarantee this.

Do you have a CRNM, RNE or some form of permanent visa? (Without this you will not be able to open your own account.) Are you certain that it is still valid, and your partner did not take any pre-emptive actions to cause you to lose this?

Was the escritura in both names, and the contract of sale in both names, and do you have copies - you may have to prove where the funds have come from to transfer this value, even within Brazil? CEF are a Government owned bank and they are very dogmatic and not at all flexible...

It is not possible to open a regular bank account in Brazil without a personal appearance - I know, I have tried for others before, so you may have to resort to NuBank or similar, but you will still need the answers from above.

What I would do is open my internet banking and then prepay my AMEX by the R$110,000.........

Of course, your arrangements with CAIXA may not permit this, but, it was the first thought that came to mind.

Do you have a major CC and internet banking with CAIXA that has limits amenable to that ?

Getting the money back off the CC is also easy as well.

You will need a CPF and RNM to open any account in Brasil, including online banks like nubank.  There is no way around this.  Your only option would be to perform a bank to bank transfer to the USA

What is RNM?

RNE and RNM were what a CRNM was called a few years ago...

To clarify, I am a citizen of both the United States and Brazil. I have a Brazilian passport, a CPF, and an old identidade. The property was sold last year, and the money was deposited into a Caixa savings account with both of our signatures. Either of us can withdraw or move money from the account. I can even log into the account using my computer in the US (jeitinho brasileiro). However, the other person can also withdraw /transfer the funds at any time. If I want to transfer my share to another account in my name, I would need to be there in person, which is not feasible at the moment. All I need is a bank where I can park my reais until I am physically present and able to open an account with a Brazilian bank. I looked into Nubank, but it seems that there is a deposit limit. I am worried that if I transfer over R$100k, the funds may get locked. Also, they ask about "saida definitiva do Brasil" regarding Receita Federal, and I have no idea about it since I left Brazil in my twenties. I am not sure about Banco Rendimento either since I can't find enough information about it. Transferring the amount to the US is not possible since I will need the reais once I move back sometime this year. What are your thoughts on Nubank and Banco Rendimento? Would I run into problems trying to transfer the balance to another bank later on? Would it trigger the Receita Federal, and the funds get blocked? What are the potential issues?

Thank you everyone.

02/01/24 @Kat2202.  Good morning.  Especially since you're a Brazilian citizen, I would recommend contacting the manager of the Caixa office where the account is, and asking what your options are for moving the funds.  If there's an easy way to help you s/he will probably know it, and provide the appropriate notifications to the RF and the PF at the same time.  Moving the kind of funds that result from a property sale shouldn't attract much attention with advance notification.

You will have a big problem with the RF if you do not have the document showing you left and closed your CPF.

They will charge you a penalty of 20% on all your earnings outside of Brasil at a minimum when you return. This has happened to two of our Brasilian friends who lived here in Canada for 4-5 years and then went back. We are moving back permanently in 6 months and my wife showed me her "saida" document from 2003 when she closed her CPF.

Our friend Luciana had to pay R$250,000 as a penalty before the RF removed the hold on her bank account.

If I were you I'd prepay a CC and get the funds out of Brasil, then deal with your tax problem.

@Kat2202

Hi Kat - thanks for clarifying all of that, it makes things a lot clearer.

I recently worked with a Brazilian American in a similar situation to yourself. He was eventually able to open an account with Nubank, however he did have to bring a lot of his personal details up to date in Brazil. Like Brazil passport and ID, voter registration, CPF, army  dispensation, Receita Federal, etc, etc. Until he had completed this process and his records were all up to date and paid up, he was refused by the banks.

Maybe your first step should be to do that, as he did succeed in sending large amounts to his account from overseas, although he did have contracts to support it all... He has made substantial transfers since then within Brazil (over R$110k) remotely...

Thanks everyone.

The Caixa manager told me I'd have to be there to open a new account.

Not sure about Cpf and implications.  At the time of the sale, I was not showing in the system. Somehow real estate guy got me one or reactivated my old number. The same with titulo de eleitor. I had to pay penalties to reactivate it in order to renew my brazilian passport.

what a nightmare! Now, i'm very confused. Lol.

@Peter Itamaraca

Thanks, Peter. As far as I know, my CPF and título are up to date. I never declared IR as I left Brazil at a young age. Recently, I went to Nubank site to try and open an account. They approved me for a credit card, but I actually need a bank account. i assume my cpf is ok since the approval was immediately.  I've tried emailing and contacting them, but the responses were vague and didn't 100% answer my questions.

I think I will have to bite the bullet and fly to Brazil in order to resolve this issue. Not seeing another option.

@Gasparzinho 777

I left Brazil in the early 80s. Last year, my CPF got activated or reactivated since I was not showing in the system previously. I am wondering if this means that it got closed or deactivated before. How can I obtain this document?

Moreover, why do I have to pay tax on my earnings outside of Brazil when I have not resided in Brazil? I already pay a lot of taxes to the IRS..lol. As far as I know, although Brazil doesn't have a tax treaty with the US, they accept US returns if needed with no Brazilian tax implication.

Not understanding about a prepaid CC. Do you mean a Brazilian CC?

I could bring the funds but I will need the reais once I am there.

Hence I don't want to transfer it to US.

You cannot obtain that document from anywhere once it is created. You retain the only original which is stamped by the RF when you present it. They put a big sticker on it WARNING YOU not to lose it. Last month my wife was literally freaking out when she could not find it. We eventually did thankfully.

You cannot live anywhere without filing taxes. If you don't have proof you left the country (the saida form) they apply their penalties for non-resident non filers, which is what you are. And yes, the US does not have a tax treaty with Brasil.  At this point I'd say you're "fujido"......hope I spelled it right kkkkkkk.

Can you input a CC in the bill payment section of the Caixa website ? Just like you can with your electricity bill, etc  ?

Make a CC payment for R$110,000 or as many times as is permitted  (5 × R$22,000 etc)......then you'll have a credit balance on the CC and control of the funds.

Then hire a lawyer to deal with the RF.

@Gasparzinho 777

Thanks. Yikes! this is turning into a nightmare.  I guess I'll have to find and  talk to a tax attorney 

@Kat2202

Kat - do you have access to your joint bank account at Caixa? Can you make transfers from it remotely? Obviously you will need to have internet banking for that, but if you can, I may have a way to get the money out and to you in the US...

02/01/24    @Gasparzinho 777
Thanks. Yikes! this is turning into a nightmare.  I guess I'll have to find and  talk to a tax attorney 
   

    -@Kat2202

Not a nightmare, more like a series of headaches.  The work that you've already done in getting your documentation up to date to renew your passport will help. 

You can print out your CPF here, both sides.  If you use a color printer you can cut them out and laminate them together back to back, official-looking and machine readable.  While it's true that you don't NEED the document, it often comes in handy.  I did the above a long time ago, and it's the document that I use most:

https://servicos.receita.fazenda.gov.br … ressao.asp

Talking to a tax advisor is certainly a good idea, particularly before you try anything sketchy.  If you have been paying income taxes all along in the US then you probably don't have much to worry about, more along the lines of a fine for not keeping your documentation up to date than anything like double taxation or confiscation.  Better to have that conversation as soon as you reasonably can.

@Peter Itamaraca

Peter, I do. I have access. But I didn’t want the

Funds in US$. I wanted to keep the funds in Brazil so I can use it in the near future.  But, at this point I am open to it, so I won't lose my share. Finding out you can't trust family.

Appreciate

Kat

Kat - send me a pm, and we can discuss this privately...

@abthree

Thank you. Will do.

you can always explore if your in USA - banco do brasil. they have a host of locations across usa, and they can work in tandem with accounts back in brazil. Providing you at least have a CPF they most cases can handle the rest