Rne validity and Account usage

I really don't know if he will be able to use your bank an investment accounts in Brazil if his RNE is expried.  I have heard of people justifying their inability to renew on time.  But I'm unsure of the process, time frame, costs, and most importantly, end results.  So IMHO, the simplest solution would be for him to comeback even for a few days to have his appointment to renew his RNE.  This can only be scheduled within 90 days of the expiration of his RNE.  Then he will have a protocolo good for 90 days and someone can pick up the RNE for him when its ready.

It really depends on the length and type of residency he has. If he has formalized his residence as permanent, then the RNE is simply an ID card.

From personal experience, having been out of the country for an extended period, when I returned, my RNE was over 12 months out of date, and it made no difference in the renewal process. Of course, not having a valid RNE in Brazil has its drawbacks!

@ymartinez Thanks for the reply. i actually meant his bank account and investment. I wrote my account and investments as a typing error

@Ocean74

Banks do not normally ask to see a permanent visa once the account has been opened. So long as the account has been active and in use (eg paying bills, receiving deposits and not closed), then he should have no problem to continue to use it. I have several friends in this situation and they have kept their accounts...

@Ocean74

Is your father age 60 or older? My recollection is those age 60 or over are exempt from renewing.  Just an FYI.

@Ocean74 - I concur with Peter; it should not affect your father’s day-to-day activities with the bank. During the period when my RNE had expired, my access to banking and investments in Brazil was unaffected.

@bepmoht

That is still the case, and the new CRNM (RNE) cards issued to anyone who will be over 60 at the normal expiry have a validity of 'INDETERMINADO.'

I have a friend in Brazil who still has the old RNE with an expiry date in the past. Technically, he does not have to renew his RNE; however, this does cause problems as not everyone is aware of this idiosyncrasy. For example, when he attempted to enter into an agreement with Claro, the system would not accept the expired date on his RNE.

@Peter Itamaraca His Stocks account which is with Xp Investments needs an update of documents every few years apparently. He has a date in September where document details as mentioned in account needs to be updated. The issue though is incase they require re-uploading pictures and details of Rne. I don't know whether he could access the account again because by then the Rne validity would be over.

@bepmoht No he's younger than 60.

@Fentium His Stocks account which is with Xp Investments needs an update of documents every few years apparently. He has a date in September where document details as mentioned in account needs to be updated. The issue though is incase they require re-uploading pictures and details of Rne. I don't know whether he could access the account again because by then the Rne validity would be over.

if u have any idea about this information, please update.

@Ocean74

So you are not referring to a simple bank account, but an investment or pension portfolio?

I have no experience of that, but it would appear to me the simplest solution would be for him to make a quick trip here NOW, and arrange to renew his CRNM through an experienced immigration attorney, so he could leave again quickly. Of course we have no idea of the basis for his permanent visa, so we cannot advise if he may be able to apply for a new one if he lets the current one expire.

If it is a sizable fund, then this may be a small price to pay compared to a closing of the account, seizing, freezing or repatriation of funds, etc. Plus he will not be able to open another bank account with a permanent visa, so would have nowhere to send the funds within Brazil...

@Ocean74

As mentioned by Peter, you have not specified the type of residence he has, which may also require renewal. in which case, i would definitely contact an immigration lawyer!

As mentioned, although most people think the RNE and residency are the same thing, they are not. Of course, you cannot obtain a CRNM (new RNE) unless you are a resident at the time of application. However, depending on the type of residency, it can remain valid after the expiry of a RNE, as long as you have has not stayed out of Brazil for more than two years.

Therefore, for proof of residency, he can obtain a certificate of residency. Any immigration lawyer or visa agency should be able to obtain this for you. You should check the validity period to ensure it covers the period you need. That will prove his residency status. Additionally, I assume the investment company will require photo ID, for which a passport should suffice.

I wish to emphasise that my suggestions are based on certain assumptions in your case, so perhaps contacting an immigration lawyer or visa company would provide you with more clarity on the situation. If you wish to contact the company I have used for many years to obtain work permits and investment visas, I can provide their details.

Worth noting, as I found out during my extended absence from Brazil, even the Federal Police that were contacted were not completely aware of the disconnect between the RNE and the right of residence.

@Peter Itamaracar

the amount is not large but he may make further investments in Brazil and other than that his savings account is also important to be functioning.

he plans on coming back to Brazil but not anytime soon due to personal reasons. I want to know if he stays out of Brazil for 2 plus years will all his accounts be shut.

@Fentium

His Rne is PERMANANTE but the issue is that it does have a validity which expires within this year.

So if the Rne is permanent in that situation I don't understand why there is a validity.

i also plan on talking with a immigration lawyer but I also would like some help from this forum

@Fentium  @bepmoht FYI...RNM | RNE vencido de migrante maior de 60 anos, precisa renovar?

Pela nova Lei de Migração (Lei 13.445/17) é preciso renovar também.

A Legislação que permitia que migrantes com mais de 60 anos não precisassem renovar seu documento, Lei 9505/97, foi revogado em 2017 com o advento da nova Lei de migração, ou seja, essa regra já não é mais válida, precisando o migrante maior de 60 anos renovar o seu documento como todos os outros.

Regarding being automatically given a CRNM with indeterminado if you are over 60... that isn't the case.  I received my first CRNM when I was 64 and it was for a 2 year period.  I've recently renewed, requested and was given an expiration of indeterminado for the renewal.  It may be because I went the consulate route on getting the initial CRNM, I'm not sure... but don't assume indeterminado is automatic for those over 60.  I'm living proof that is not the case.

@mikehunter

When I received my RNE in October of 2010 I was 51 years old. The validity (or Expiration) ion my card is “Indeterminada”. I entered Brazil in 2023 and 2021 with no problems. So I am assuming that people issued RNEs under the old law were “Grandfathered” under the previous rules. I’ll be returning again in July so I will see what happens. I’ll update this post if they make me renew.

06/16/24    @mikehunter
When I received my RNE in October of 2010 I was 51 years old. The validity (or Expiration) ion my card is “Indeterminada”. I entered Brazil in 2023 and 2021 with no problems. So I am assuming that people issued RNEs under the old law were “Grandfathered” under the previous rules. I’ll be returning again in July so I will see what happens. I’ll update this post if they make me renew.
   

    -@bepmoht

Identity cards issued under the old  (pre-2017) law were grandfathered, and VIPERs issued under the old law still have legal effect, so you should not run into any trouble.  Shortly after the current law went into effect a regulation was issued that the old identity cards would need to be renewed after nine years, but that regulation was canceled a few months later.

I believe that under the current law, identity cards with a validity of "indeterminada" do not need to be renewed as long as the cardholder is not absent from Brazil for more than two years.  In that case, the residency is canceled and effectively, the card loses validity.   But it's wise to speak with an attorney before reaching any final conclusions.

    06/16/24    @mikehunterWhen I received my RNE in October of 2010 I was 51 years old. The validity (or Expiration) ion my card is “Indeterminada”. I entered Brazil in 2023 and 2021 with no problems. So I am assuming that people issued RNEs under the old law were “Grandfathered” under the previous rules. I’ll be returning again in July so I will see what happens. I’ll update this post if they make me renew.        -@bepmoht

Identity cards issued under the old  (pre-2017) law were grandfathered, and VIPERs issued under the old law still have legal effect, so you should not run into any trouble.  Shortly after the current law went into effect a regulation was issued that the old identity cards would need to be renewed after nine years, but that regulation was canceled a few months later.

I believe that under the current law, identity cards with a validity of "indeterminada" do not need to be renewed as long as the cardholder is not absent from Brazil for more than two years.  In that case, the residency is canceled and effectively, the card loses validity.   But it's wise to speak with an attorney before reaching any final conclusions.
   

    -@abthree

That is correct. I have a copy of the document announcing the cancellation of that requirements (which is on another computer that I can't access at the moment). I continue to use my "indeterminada" RNE regularly for both frequent international and domestic travel and government requirements inside Brasil. It has never been questioned.

The comment I made above about RNE's needed to be renewed was concerning those that had an expiration date, not that had a status of "indeterminada".  The old law said that if you were over 60 when your card expired (i.e. it has an expiration date), that you didn't need to renew your card.  However, now if you have a card that has expired, you need to get it renewed regardless of your age.  If the status is "indeterminada", by definition, the card isn't expired.