What do expats think about Vietnamese?

I am not yet an ex-pat but I have visited VN 6 times in the past 4 years.  I am engaged to a wonderful VN woman and through her I have met many wonderful VN people.  Together we have met some VN people that I would just never want to deal with again.  I have traveled to other foreign countries and have found the same situation there.  And even in the US.  You should not worry about how Vietnamese are perceived because there are good and bad people all over the world.

the topic and the story doesnt really match.

Trang,

You are doing the exact same thing that your colleague is doing: generalizing people.  Not all expats think that Vietnamese are crooks.  The guy that stole my laptop was a thief, not a Vietnamese nor an expat.  I hope you understand.

Better days are ahead.

Howie

Lessons for you kiddo:

1. You can't blamed him for being careful in a country he does not know much about, which also has a bad reputation to begin with. If you were to live in, say, a bad neighborhood in the States, I am sure you would do the same thing.

2. Don't insist that he treats you like you expect a Vietnamese would treat you. May be it is customary in his culture to return the favor immediately? Ask him why and teach him about the Vietnamese way, if you feel he is open to feedback.

3. Next time if you don't want to be in the same situation, let your intention know and agree beforehand. Say 'I am helping you because I appreciate your help at work. I don't want you to feel owned me a favor or I don't want to receive any present in return"
If he insists, agree on a return both of you feel comfortable with (preferably he would do sth in return instead of buying 'you teach me Excel in return'...). If not, walk away by recommending/finding nicely someone else to help him instead.





2.

Thank you everyone.

I didn't blame my colleague for anything. I understand it is life and people everywhere are different. I was just shocked a little bit. Maybe Howie is right. I am generalizing people. Better days are still ahead.

Again, thanks for your time.

Just his personal way. Could be he was so happy with the result of you assistance he wanted to say "Cam on" but didn't know what your preferences for a gift were.

He kept thinking that the owner tried to ask more money from him.

Some VN landlords do have strange ways. They say the apartment is so much a month, then they come up with the old "management fee" for a owner managed house?

Or when a contract is agreed and signed, partway through the lease the owner says he needs more money because his costs have gone up. Thinks the tenant should pay more.

I used a rented place once and when I came to leave at the end of the lease he claimed there was 'damage'. I always take pictures when I rent a place and I said any scuffs on the paint was "fair wear and tare". He said he would take VND2,000,000 to repaint the place, and I said I won't vacate until I get my deposit back.

He called the Cong An and after hearing my side they told the landlord he was wrong.

But we don't consider these landlords to be typical Vietnamese, they are acting like typical landlords be they in New York or London.

Don't worry about your work colleague, he is most likely so happy with your help you are now his best friend.

Thanks Jaitch,

Taking pictures before renting is a good idea. I will tell my colleague about that. However, I know for sure he doesn't want to have any friendship with me. We are just colleague working together. That's it. Any ways, it is not a big deal.

I am sorry for your bad experience ..although you are very smart..lol

Thank you for your time and concern.

Have a nice weekend

One thing that boggles my mind is when some Vietnamese people who sell goods (such as food/clothing/ etc..) don't use common sense. I live in Vietnam and I know the prices of things. The Vietnamese that rip me off lose the business. Meaning that if they rip me off, I'll never go back to them again. I can understand higher prices in Pham Ngu Lao, but in places where there are barely any foreigners (my neighborhood for example) it just doesn't make any sense. Especially when they see you everyday. Instead of thinking long term, they think short term to make a quick buck. If you're honest, I'll come back maybe every day and give you business. Cheat me one time and you're done. Believe me, it's not the money. It's the principle. Ah, it just blows my mind.

"Especially when they see you everyday" Therein is the problem with some, not all but some shopkeepers. They don't see the same thing you do in the mirror every morning. All they can see is a $$$$ walking down the street.

I agree with you guys about this and feel very ashamed.

You should understand that Vietnam is a developing country and these people you met are not very well-educated. They don't even see long-run business. That is totally true. All they know is take as much as money because foreigners never get back. They are too poor to think of other factors.

All I want to say is that just let it go. If you know the prize there doesn't make sense, so just go to another place. You never have this kind of experience like this anywhere except Vietnam.

We are the young generation and I hope young Vietnamese can change it but it takes time.

Cheer

Heck it don't bother me at all. I know the game and understand the reasons. You might say " we don't see the  same thing as they do when they look at a mirror in the morning either". Besides if I get ripped off when I'm shopping be myself (too much) my wife (of almost 40 years)heads downtown and explains the fact of life to them. End of problem. However we live in a very small town and have been here for many years, everybody knows us. Not a problem very often at all. Don't be ashamed your country is growing in leaps and bounds. I know, the expats now days should have seen what was going on back in the very early 1990's.

Kelly,

Are you big enough to represent the entire Vietnam.  Common young lady...  I fully understand your intentions.  However, that is not how things work!!!

To me, each must pay for his/her own undoings.  You can't take something that is micro and make it macro.  Don't do that my young friend.  That is called "short-sightedness" or ignorance, if you ask me.

You didn't do anything wrong, or so I hope.  There is no need to be apologetic about anything, unless you are thinking too highly of yourself.  Look over this real good, my young friend.

Howie

Gang,

"Short-sightedness" is the key word here!  Years of warfares and social instabilities had made these people into who they are today.  Learn and love them for who they are.  But please, don't criticize.  They have had it hard enough...  More than anyone of us could ever imagine.  Can you imagine wondering where your next meal is going to come from???

Howie

Hi Howie,

Thanks for your comments. Maybe I am a little bit overreacting and too emotional. However, please don't get me wrong. I just felt bad when people think badly about our nationality. That's why I created this topic. Fortunately, you guys showed me life is still beautiful and I appreciate that. Hey, it is also the purpose of this forum, to exchange cultures, isn't it?we can get to know each other better.

Howie, thank you again for standing at Vietnamese'side. You are so right to say "learn and love them for who they are". I appreciate that. It's just because we re different. I would think the same when I am in a different country.

Good night..

Overall I have good experience with local Vietnamese, Viet-Kieus, expats, foreigners, black, blue, green, you name it!

If you treat people nicely, you get that in return. It is really easy for me to build a quality friendship with people here. Everyone is just way more approachable compared to life in the US.

Vietnamese are very friendly with foreigners...without a doubt. But does it make them friendly people in general...nop! You just have to look the way they are with each other and you'll understand. The only reason they are nice to us expat or tourist is because they want something from us.Saying that, they may get out of their way to "help" you but you'll have to pay back one way or an other, trust me....human nature I guess.

Alllgooduntil wrote:

Vietnamese are very friendly with foreigners...without a doubt. But does it make them friendly people in general...nop! You just have to look the way they are with each other and you'll understand. The only reason they are nice to us expat or tourist is because they want something from us.Saying that, they may get out of their way to "help" you but you'll have to pay back one way or an other, trust me....human nature I guess.

That's a horrible way to think in general. Even if you are in Vietnam or any other country.

I go with my gut and most of the time I can see who people are even if they treat me wonderful at first or not.

Of course, when someone starts talking about something more serious, then there's a different mentality.

I just dislike the negative assumptions people have.

mr_monotone wrote:

One thing that boggles my mind is when some Vietnamese people who sell goods (such as food/clothing/ etc..) don't use common sense. I live in Vietnam and I know the prices of things. The Vietnamese that rip me off lose the business. Meaning that if they rip me off, I'll never go back to them again. I can understand higher prices in Pham Ngu Lao, but in places where there are barely any foreigners (my neighborhood for example) it just doesn't make any sense. Especially when they see you everyday. Instead of thinking long term, they think short term to make a quick buck. If you're honest, I'll come back maybe every day and give you business. Cheat me one time and you're done. Believe me, it's not the money. It's the principle. Ah, it just blows my mind.

This is something I agree of. But not all of them in this country my friend. You just saw one (or some) and you said that (?) . Sorry if I was wrong... But anyway you are right, there r some people like : "Instead of thinking long term, they think short term to make a quick buck" ...

Alllgooduntil wrote:

Vietnamese are very friendly with foreigners...without a doubt. But does it make them friendly people in general...nop! You just have to look the way they are with each other and you'll understand. The only reason they are nice to us expat or tourist is because they want something from us.Saying that, they may get out of their way to "help" you but you'll have to pay back one way or an other, trust me....human nature I guess.

I dont understand and dont have any idea that how long you have been in this country or how many time you ve met with people here. But! But! Alllgooduntil, you are so wrong to say that! I think there are some reason like this :
1) You dont have many Vietnamese, dont you? So you dont understand much about them.
2) If you do, so you might always doubt on people that they will cheat you or ask something back from you? Like what you ve writen. Sorry if you think in this way, you cant live any country else over the world my dear!
3) If you dont, (not doubt on people), you might live too long with your desk, your office, your room or your whatever, open ur mind and walk down the street, and see how people are from your friendly eyes. You see what I meant?

P/S : Im so so so sad about these kind of opinion of Vietnamese...

I think the whole price thing is a catch 22. Foreigners are routinely told to bargain and bargain and so vendors hike it. Happens in most places where you get a lot of tourists.

Hey gang,

The inability to look a little further down the road exists everywhere, not just in Vietnam.  I live close to Disneyland, in California and, hell no, I never went there to buy jack.  Therefore, when it comes to here, it is just a matter of recognizing which area and/or type of vendor to avoid.

After all, that is the very part that makes travel fun, is it not?

Howie

Alllgooduntil wrote:

trust me....human nature I guess.

I trust you wholeheartedly; we, human beings, do very strange things.  What I don't agree too much is attributing certain traits, regardless whether they are positive or negative, to a certain group.  I just think that is a very unwise thing to do for a world traveler, or an observer of cultures.

Howie

While I try to shy away from western foods in Vietnam.... occasionally I'll have a craving.... so a restaurant is advertising it's "Ultimate burger".... hmmm sounds good today... they boast two meat patties and the works... so I order it and sit down... 15 minutes later the waiter appears with my food.... out of habit I lift the bun to expose not two meat patties, but only one... so I call the waiter over and politely ask where the second one was.... lo and behold... he appears 10 seconds later with a fully cooked hamburger patty on a small plate...

Did they think that I wouldn't notice...?
Will I go back there again...?
Will I relate this experience to others...?

Yes.
No.
Yes.

Ok... I understand that this is trivial and not indicative of all restaurants in Vietnam....but the notion of "return business" is lost on some...on account of shear greed.

I was taught by my elders that if someone takes or steals something from you, they probably need it a lot more than you do. I try to live by that mantra here. It came in handy a couple years ago when both of my motorbike helmets were stolen. Instead of getting upset, I just told myself that guy needed them more than I do.

I grew up in a small town where most people went to church every Sunday, and always gave a portion of their income to the church as an offering. As an adult, prior to moving overseas, I still went to church, and still pledged a portion of my income to the church. Since I don't go to church here, I'm not donating that part of my income anymore. Therefore, if I find someone here I think has a legitimate need, I don't have any problem trying to help them. I advise, however, that it's wise to be discreet in this practice - otherwise you might be mobbed for handouts far greater than you can afford! I consider those motorbike helmets a "donation" to the cause.

So, overall, I enjoy living in Vietnam and think the Vietnamese are good people who just haven't had the advantages I've been accustomed, and I try to remember that even when I think I may be getting the short end of the bargain. If I'm not in the mood for a donation, just respectfully say "no thanks" and walk away.

saigonmonkey wrote:

I was taught by my elders that if someone takes or steals something from you, they probably need it a lot more than you do.

My Parents also instilled this to my brother and I growing up in New York City....... and for the most part... it's a great way to think....

However when that thinking becomes.... "familiarity breeds contempt".... your thought process changes to cynicism...

I've lived in South East Asia long enough to know I'm a target...and probably always will be...

I still love Vietnam...

Some years ago, i and my friend went to a bar in district 1 for drink. I chatted with two girls, from Erope. About 10 minutes later, we needed new beers. Because, the beers had to be paid in advance. So I offerred to invite them then i gave the money to the waitress. The girls seemed so afraid. They said it is not ok then stood up and went away in some seconds. I wondered much but, after that, i thought if i come to a strange place, maybe i will do the same. It is a lesson for me. Through this story, i d like to tell that we have to learn to trust other people when we live in somewhere in long term. Learn who we can trust, we will get a better life.

Come ooon!!

This ain't leading to any good destination.

Shame!

kelly_middlenice wrote:

I agree with you guys about this and feel very ashamed.

You should understand that Vietnam is a developing country and these people you met are not very well-educated. They don't even see long-run business. That is totally true. All they know is take as much as money because foreigners never get back. They are too poor to think of other factors.

All I want to say is that just let it go. If you know the prize there doesn't make sense, so just go to another place. You never have this kind of experience like this anywhere except Vietnam.

We are the young generation and I hope young Vietnamese can change it but it takes time.

Cheer

They are just like any other regular people to me in this crazy world. I just learn to live with them. 

An empty cup is better than a full.Sometimes just right.Things change for reasons.Respect the situation.

So late for the party @#$% old post. oh well off to UT music.

As I know, many of them think that we are weird, boyish or girlish. Some of them have/know their own reasons but many of them just join the pack and are clueless.

kelly_middlenice wrote:

Hello everyone,

I am a Vietnamese. I am working in a multinational company.

I am creating this topic to hear from you guys-the expats. What do you think about Vietnamese?Some may feel bad,some may feel good. Feel free to raise your voice. We are going to discuss about this.

Good luck to all of you and wish you have a wonderful time in Vietname.

Trang

PS: I don't want to talk about my personal case anymore

Well, to me, just one word. Friendly.

Hi its Ling.
I have been living and working in HCM for 2 years, so I have some VN friends here.
Yes, every people are very different, even if they are coming from the same country. But I do find some....let us say:"very general/common things" in VN people.

What I like:
1.The way they speak Vietnamese, the way they smile and laught, just make me feel that everyday is like a "happy weekend day"!
2.Live in a "Dont worry about it, my friend. Just relax." mode.

What bothers me:
1.Late for a meeting or a date very often, without good reason. If we have a appointment at 9:00am, then arriving in 9:15am is really not "on time"...
2.Beautiful VN girls are very very proud...I read:"My way, or you boys go away" on their faces.....Yes, beautiful girls in Taiwan are proud too, but you can still try to talk some sense with them. But in VN, it is really difficult. Even they speak good English, they just want everything in their own ways, and they dont feel like waste the time to understand different personality or culture...."My way, or you boys go away"....I really feel it.

dinhHien2006 wrote:

Some years ago, i and my friend went to a bar in district 1 for drink. I chatted with two girls, from Erope. About 10 minutes later, we needed new beers. Because, the beers had to be paid in advance. So I offerred to invite them then i gave the money to the waitress. The girls seemed so afraid. They said it is not ok then stood up and went away in some seconds. I wondered much but, after that, i thought if i come to a strange place, maybe i will do the same. It is a lesson for me. Through this story, i d like to tell that we have to learn to trust other people when we live in somewhere in long term. Learn who we can trust, we will get a better life.

They were just being cautious. You really can't blame them. Alot of bad stories of men taken advantage of women at bars, so they were being careful being tourist.

ConRua wrote:

dinhHien2006 wrote:

Some years ago, i and my friend went to a bar in district 1 for drink. I chatted with two girls, from Erope. About 10 minutes later, we needed new beers. Because, the beers had to be paid in advance. So I offerred to invite them then i gave the money to the waitress. The girls seemed so afraid. They said it is not ok then stood up and went away in some seconds. I wondered much but, after that, i thought if i come to a strange place, maybe i will do the same. It is a lesson for me. Through this story, i d like to tell that we have to learn to trust other people when we live in somewhere in long term. Learn who we can trust, we will get a better life.

They were just being cautious. You really can't blame them. Alot of bad stories of men taken advantage of women at bars, so they were being careful being tourist.

This is also what I feel.
I dont blame anyone, but I do feel there is something missing in many VN girls.
If an expat do somethting different then they expect, I mean not bad things, but just somethings due to different culture or personality, then most VN girls just react right away in a very direct way. They dont take a second to understand your doing or thinking. They just feel "you have no respect for them" and they react right away.

I have been to many countries, and this, I must say, I only feel this in VN girls.

chrisauw wrote:

ConRua wrote:

dinhHien2006 wrote:

Some years ago, i and my friend went to a bar in district 1 for drink. I chatted with two girls, from Erope. About 10 minutes later, we needed new beers. Because, the beers had to be paid in advance. So I offerred to invite them then i gave the money to the waitress. The girls seemed so afraid. They said it is not ok then stood up and went away in some seconds. I wondered much but, after that, i thought if i come to a strange place, maybe i will do the same. It is a lesson for me. Through this story, i d like to tell that we have to learn to trust other people when we live in somewhere in long term. Learn who we can trust, we will get a better life.

They were just being cautious. You really can't blame them. Alot of bad stories of men taken advantage of women at bars, so they were being careful being tourist.

This is also what I feel.
I dont blame anyone, but I do feel there is something missing in many VN girls.
If an expat do somethting different then they expect, I mean not bad things, but just somethings due to different culture or personality, then most VN girls just react right away in a very direct way. They dont take a second to understand your doing or thinking. They just feel "you have no respect for them" and they react right away.

I have been to many countries, and this, I must say, I only feel this in VN girls.

You're comparing Western women to Asian women...
I'm not an expert by any means, however I find Western women to think you have a motive... and that you definitely want something in return...for just being genuinely nice...

Not the case with say,.... Vietnamese women...
Yes there are some that have developed western attitudes in this regard, but for the most part, they reciprocate the kindness you show upon them....

In America... if I came upon a bus stop where a woman was waiting... and I merely said, "good morning"... it would be met with silence and a sense of impending threat.... I don't miss that at all about the west...

Whereas, I find Asian... and particularity Vietnamese women to reply with a smile and return the gesture, because after all... that was your true intent to begin with...

In ordinary situations, whether it be in the service industry or work place.... the first thing I ask is their name, be it male or female...because addressing a person by their name gives you,(and them) instant credibility... granted most are never quite prepared for that question and flattered that you even asked. Something as simple as that works wonders... and I tend to meet the most wonderful people in Vietnam...

Yes... I know that some will disagree with me on this...

Thanks, i got  some other points of view. It ís good for me to treat with other people in other cultures. However, we also have our own culture and i do not be shame with our culture, it is like my parents. Most vietnameses are friendy with foreign people but i have some friends who respect any foreign thing exceedingly, like their "fathers". I do not like these friends. They do not have their own judgement.
I like to know other cultures. Thanks

I am from Taiwan, so I am not comparing W people to E people, because I also live in an E world. Even according to E world standard, I personally still feel something I never feel in other E countries. I am not saying it is right or wrong, it is just something I never feel in any other countries, E or W.

For example...One time I was talking on yahoo with my VN friend. She is only 23, she speaks perfect English, has a very nice University degree, has a very nice job as well, all-in-all a well-educated girl and very smart too. At that time we had known each other for a while, and we had talked on Yahoo for several times already, always happy conversation, never had any problem.
One day morning I saw her on Yahoo, so I said:" Morning girl, how are you?"
And she replied immediately:"Who is girl? I am not girl. I have a name, ok? My name is Thao, not girl"  This is exactly the way she replied to me. You can see, she was very very serious about it.
I was shock....She never talked like this before. I did not know whats going on, but its ok, I would tried to understand, so I ask:"Is girl a bad nickname in VN? I didnt mean anything else....it is just, you are very young girl, so I say girl to you."
She was still serious:"No, I want you to call my name Thao. You call me girl, I feel you not respect me."
Now I know she didnt like it, so I said:"Ok, no problem, Im sorry, I dont know you dont like it...I never have this problem before with other people..."
And she kept going:"No one wants to be called girl, all right? If I just call you boy or man, will you be happy?"  I was shock for the 3rd time....Thats why I can remember all these talks...
About 5 minutes later, finally we could talk normally, and everything was fine and peace.

Yes, people are different.
But I feel shock for things like this in VN much more often than in other E or W countries.

ConRua wrote:

dinhHien2006 wrote:

Some years ago, i and my friend went to a bar in district 1 for drink. I chatted with two girls, from Erope. About 10 minutes later, we needed new beers. Because, the beers had to be paid in advance. So I offerred to invite them then i gave the money to the waitress. The girls seemed so afraid. They said it is not ok then stood up and went away in some seconds. I wondered much but, after that, i thought if i come to a strange place, maybe i will do the same. It is a lesson for me. Through this story, i d like to tell that we have to learn to trust other people when we live in somewhere in long term. Learn who we can trust, we will get a better life.

They were just being cautious. You really can't blame them. Alot of bad stories of men taken advantage of women at bars, so they were being careful being tourist.

Thanks, i only wondered at that time. Truly, i did not wait for somethings in return. Yeah, but maybe the others did.