Sanctuary Belize

The Marina in March



The savanna land on the property.  Note that it is flooded even in the dry season.  This is important to consider because all of this will be part of the big wave, nothing here to slow it down.  Better hope the sea level does not rise as predicted by global warming -- this will be a marine park very soon.



This is a rendering of one of the "sustainable" houses you can build.  Why is it flat on the ground with no where for water to pass?  What happens when 5 feet of water come in the rainy season on land already saturated like above? 

If you are making a choice to buy here, this is not a 2 week trip to the Caribbean.  You are spending all your life earnings -- don't you need a better design that will be sustainable from the weather?

Certainly each subscriber to this blog is entitled to their opinions.  But why all the hate mail and fear mongering regarding SanctuaryBelize? I would submit that if...you don't have personal knowledge or actual experience with SanctuaryBelize, then perhaps you ought to couch your comments accordingly!!!  The weekly tours are, and have been FULL....so much so that a way of making sure people serious about the development, who have done their research and have IDed a likely lot, are able to get booked on a tour....vs... "tire kickers" who may be just along for the ride, as well as a way to reserve a negotiated reduced price, is to ask for a refundable deposit.  That's just good business! If you want to buy just a plot of ground....then yes, there are plots available for less money.  But if you want to be a part of something bigger, with more amenities....and perhaps more future...then you may need to look differently.  There must be a reason that lot sales at SanctuaryBelize are so active that new areas are continually opening up, that the weekly tours are full, and that several homes are now completed with more well under way. And while the bamboo houses appeal to some folks, I personally know several others who do not like them and would not have one.....to each his own. And there are several variations (including concrete homes)already built in SanctuaryBelize! I agree...SanctuaryBelize is not for everyone. And depending on what you want, look (and research) accordingly.  But the barrage of cheap shots, from sources that obviously do not know what they are talking about, is getting a little old.  Get a life!!

This blog is for sharing our experiences.  I have built a home in belize.  I have owned property in Belize for more than 10 years -- currently own 3 very different ones in different parts of the country -- and have been coming here since 1994.

The pictures I posted were proudly displayed on the Facebook site of Sanctuary Belize.  It was suggested by another poster that we take a look.  this is what the owners posted, and yes, i have an opinion that these are not worth the investment, please build something else.

It seems the real hostility is against anyone that has a difference of opinion. 

It is not a cheap shot to talk about ground water levels or hurricanes -- looked at the sittee point region long before this development was announced.  I have concerns about the buildings they are promoting to people who don't know what the weather can be like in this area.

But I had concerns about placencia too -- voiced those on the belize forum -- was berated by people 10+ years ago for bringing it up.  One woman like you was hostile towards me.  Not six months later, she lost everything in hurricane iris -- her wooden building just washed or blew away -- don't remember which.

I understand the defensive thing if you have already made an investment -- everyone wants people to tell them they made the right choice.

Building a bamboo building like proudly displayed is not a personality choice -- it's an uninformed one.  Great if you know of other concrete buildings -- they aren't the ones on facebook getting all the "likes" from the unsuspecting northerners.

I so enjoy the practicality you bring to the table!

Guess I should have said above comment was meant for Prestonia.

RICK & LINDA,
I just drove by Royal Colony about 20 minutes ago. The first part of the Consejo Road was not in the best shape - and the road can and does flood. Just because you are not in Orchard Bay, doesn't mean that you are going to be totally immune to the weather/road issues.
Just make sure that you are planning for a good solid  truck for living out there.
We did look at Royal Colony - the lots were definitely over priced vs other estates in the area. (And all the estates here in Corozal are at a premium to the non-developed local land).
I found that The Royal Colony pool is too close to the road - and it gets really dusty. Not a big problem now, but several other developments across the street are being cleared now, as traffic increases, so will the dust.  But the worst problem were the relentless doctor flies by the pool, you could not sit there, I'm not sure why they were so bad in that area.
I'm sure that you will get use to the roads. And it will probably work out OK for you.
But I am glad to hear that you did spend a few months here before you bought - that was a smart thing to do.
There are so many small issues that you only find out about only months after you begin living here - so at least you have had the benefit of that experience. You know how to prepare, what to bring and what you can do without. I'm sure that while you were here you totally rethought the design of your new house, making design changes that you probably never thought about before spending time here.

I'm afraid I have to agree with Prestonia on some of these developments( both on price and construction) . I really wonder what does through the minds of the developers/buyers. But to each his own. I'm sure that whatever piece of land a person buys, they will be able to justify it - which is why some of these discussions get so heated.

Belize had relatively low death counts previously during recent hurricanes b/c all of these new developments were uninhabited.  As populations move in over the next few years with expanded developments, the situation may be very different in the future.

Thanks chefpeppers and nichi.

I don't mean to sound like a sour puss or old fart.  It's just that Nichi is right, when you have spent a lot of time in Belize, you see these waves of pie-in-the-sky attitudes that don't match the realities on the ground.  People want Belize to be their dream place and often gloss-over the realities or difficulties.  We seem to be in another wave of activity now that the great recession is over and major media is sounding the retirement drumbeat to more overseas.

Prices do matter:  a rule of investment is buy low, sell high.  If you buy the most expensive real estate in the area, it has less potential to rise in price than the cheapest land in the neighborhood.  Several buyers have mentioned the prices keep going up or their hurry to get a lot in a certain section.  Is it an investment or dream chasing?  If it is dream chasing, there is nothing wrong with it, unless you are dishonest to yourself about the true investment potential.

I do listen to Love FM during the hurricanes, as most Belizeans do.  I have heard the worried calls from people stuck in Sittee point that could not evacuate for a storm.  It's not a safe place to be at a time like that and I don't know where you evacuate to. I hope buyers are thinking about what can go wrong and build appropriately and have an escape plan.

Just because you invest in a 1st world style development does not mean 1st world hurricane shelters get built.  I personally lost several trees during Hurricane Richard, but luckily was not out at my farm when it hit.

from wikipedia "On October 8th, 2001, Hurricane Iris hit southern Belize with 145mph winds causing major damage to nearly 95% of buildings in Placencia. Many developers took advantage of plummeted real estate value and an increased development of the peninsula and Placencia proper is consistently on the rise, as well as property value." 

Nichi is right that the whole coast from Placencia to Dangriga did not have the development it does now.  No one knows how much larger the damage might be next time, even to concrete buildings.

from

"Hurricane Iris hit southern Belize on Oct 8th with 145mph winds causing major damage to nearly 95% of buildings in Placencia. From Sunday night, October 7th, 2001, when Iris just had winds of 90 mph until its landfall in Belize at around 11 PM EDT on Monday night, October 8th, Hurricane Iris developed into such a monster that it registered as the strongest hurricane of the 2001 Atlantic Hurricane Season.




"In Belize, a total of 3,718 homes were destroyed by Iris' strong winds and 14 ft storm surge. Nineteen schools were destroyed and 12 others were damaged; 21 governmental buildings were damaged, including two police stations that were destroyed. All power was lost to the affected regions, costing roughly $1.25 million to restore. Total damages to infrastructure was estimated at $8.15 million. The agricultural sector sustained severe damage and losses. Most livestock were killed during the storm, the shrimping industry lost 25% of their catch and large areas of farmland were inundated by flood waters. Losses in the agricultural industry were estimated at $74.5 million. 31 people were killed by the storm 20 of those were people on a dive boat, M/V Wave Dancer, when it capsized at the dock in Big Creek and eight others were listed as missing."

More about the hurricanes in Belize

Nichi  Thank  you for your reply.  This is very helpful.  I had already told Rick we would need a truck 4 wheel drive.  We went down the road when it was dry and I could tell after it rained it would be very muddy.  I also told him if they start building more down the road it would get more torn up by all the trucks.  I am going to look up the flies.  We really like the house and have spoke with one of the owners.  She advised us of some changes when it comes time to start our build.  Anymore help you can offer will be very much appreciated.. Thanks again Linda

to sail crazy.   I am also from rural So Mn originally.  The negativity about Sanctuary Belize that you have seen on this blog is not irrational "hate".   It is simply stating concerns based on existing, undisputable hard facts.  The land is flat.  there are storm surges up to 12 feet in the area.  Hurricanes do hit the Belizean coast, some areas worse than others.   Some types of buildings are safer than others.  Access to the area is difficult.  Previous speculator/developers had law trouble.  This is all just real life factual data....

It is interesting to note,  that when you review the comments about SB, Orchard Bay and the long list of others, on this and the other Belize blogs, you can't help noticing that it is the people who actually live here in Belize, that are the ones are raising cautions and concerns about these projects.

More questions about who owns sanctuary belize.  Some pretty good evidence its still the same people who owned Sanctuary Bay

getoutofdebt.org/52655/sanctuary-belize-andis-pukke-todd-cook-peter-baker

Prestonia

Thanks for posting this - it's an excellent article for anyone who even has a passing interest in SB.
And It is a must read for anyone considering purchasing property in this and /or any other development.
From a legal standpoint, you still have the initial people involved, regardless of how they manoeuvred around their tax and other obligations, it only raises more questions, and SB provides no answers.

I'm not sure if the saga will every be over there, and what wonders what stigma will remain even years from now, when it comes time for the current purchasers to want to re-sell their houses or land.
They won't have benefit of a multi million dollar ad campaigns or mortgage financing  backing them on a resale.

Just as an aside - I've heard from someone who went to see the area recently,  that so far, the houses that have been built don't have water connected, no wells have been dug and they were built with no cisterns.
Thanks again for pointing this out to everyone.

Prestonia, Great atricle. I doubt if those determined to buy will pay any attention to it until the next tidal surge wipes it off the map, then the finger pointing will begin.
No well,or septic, I hope they have a doctor handy for the diseases that must be as thick as the mosquitos. lol

Hi all,

Although I try to stay out of these communications, and just read them for amusement, I would like to comment on some recent posts.
I just returned from a 3 week trip to Belize, with first week spent at SB. I had done my research and due diligence before going on tour ( as everyone should do before going).
Although I did visit some homes built at ground level, which I agree is a folly, most including several in construction are being built on concrete, at least 12 ft above ground. Even the 2-3 level all concrete homes have living quarters on second floor, 12 ft above ground.
I did purchase a lot in SR area, and my house to be built will be on concrete, 15 ft high.
In my opinion, SB is a good investment. If you havn't been there, this forum is great to ask questions, but it's up to you to research and make decisions.
I personally believe that the world class Marina will be a tremendous draw for Caribbean boaters, because it is the only marina in the Caribbean that is insureable. That means its a safe harbor for my Catalina, makes me happy, as it will for thousands of boat owners.

I will say that as far as hurricane damage, how many times have owners built and re- built in Florida, New Orleans, etc. it's the risk you choose yourself.

And as far as water to the homes and lots, underground water lines are in place where homes have been built ( I drank from kitchen sinks ). The water is available from 3 high producing wells, and as more is needed, more will be tapped. Water is not an issue. Getting your facts right is.

Can't wait to hear the rebuttals

GW

Thanks for the update about the water. It didn't sound plausible, that was why I put it out there. But this person is considered knowledgeable by many. Easy to see how rumours get started.
I'm finding that so many people here have their own agendas and it's is often difficult to get "the facts".  Getting info from many sources is imperative on any land or property purchase here, not just SB.

TravelWriterGary: I don't have a rebuttal, just want people to make informed choices.  Sounds like what you did.

A lot of people are reserving lots in SB site unseen.

Belize is quirky, nothing is straight forward.  I just found out there is a "road" beside my property in Cayo 800 feet bordering it.  It doesn't show up on any plat map, but the paper for it was filed 10 years ago.  Not angry about it, just changes the way I view that part of the property.  One day cars will be using it to get to the macal river and I never heard about it.  Just an example, ask questions, doubt everything until you see hard evidence, and still, be ready for surprises.

Hey you guys,
Hope I didn't come off to sarcastic, not my intention.
I did what I did because I felt good about what I learned before going and while there.
In fact, my wife who demands more checks and balances before doing anything in life and business, was  the one to make the decision to purchase.
Face it, it's a third world country, always expect the Un expected. And don't put all your marbles in any one bag that you can't afford to loose.
As far as putting a deposit on a lot before seeing it, that's the norm, I did it myself. It was the only lot in Sapadilla Ridge left with direct Caribbean access, and only one building site next to it.
If I didn't like whati say there in person, they would refund my $5000 immediately. And trust me, I saw them do just that for another couple,so it's true.
Ok..I'm done..off to open  a bottle of New Zealand Cabernet Sauvignon to start the weekend.
Cheers,
Gary

I just want to comment on the bambo house thing. First off SB has adopted Dade county FL building standards.  They are the highest hurricane rated standards in the world.  Second, please do your research on bambo homes as it pertains to hurricanes.  You will see that it is far superior to wood structure and at near the same level as concete.  I do have the same concerns about building on ground level though.  Seems like asking for trouble.  The coast at SB is protected by a natural lagoon and all the mangrove has been left in place to protect the coast line. Then comes the marina as a second barrier.  Nothing will stop tidal surge but the damage will be limited by the natural vegetation .  Any areas that were stripped of vegetation during construction have been replanted with mangrove.  SB has on staff a sustainability engineer who's job it is to build the place safe with out affecting the environment.  That is the reason that no building is allowed on the Savanna.  Most lots  not actually on the water front are about 25-35 ft above sealeval.  Hope this helps.

Hmmm " Most lots  not actually on the water front are about 25-35 ft above sea level."
Where are the lots 25-35 feet above sea level? According to this layout they don't exist?


Elevation
red = land below 10 feet
orange = land below 15 feet
yellow = land below 25 feet.

Love to see a date on this "master plan" along with the elevation key part of the map ?

This video shows an incredible number of buildings just above sea level.  3d rendering by Archiform 3D.

Sanctuary Belize

ADMINISTRATOR   I HAVE NEVER SIGNED UP FOR THIS THREAD AND HAVE ATTEMPTED 3 TIMES TO UNSUBSCRIBE.   UNSUBSCRIBE ME NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

kristinanadreau wrote:

ADMINISTRATOR   I HAVE NEVER SIGNED UP FOR THIS THREAD AND HAVE ATTEMPTED 3 TIMES TO UNSUBSCRIBE.   UNSUBSCRIBE ME NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you post a message in a thread you are automatically subscribed.  If you look at the last post in a thread you will see the option of unsubscribing.  But if you post to it again, you'll be subscribed again by default unless you uncheck the box next to "Subscribe to this topic."

If you unsubscribe from a thread AND stop posting to that thread you won't get the notices.

Or, maybe someone keeps subscribing you to this thread because they know you secretly want to read it. 

@ kristinanadreau: You have subscribed to the whole Belize forum so it is nothing unusual.
Please contact us in private if you want to change your notifications.

Thanks
Armand
Expat.com Team

PS: Sorry for being off topic here.

They are named Sopadilla Ridge and North Ridge for a reason.  They are on a ridge.  Once the elevation drops behind the ridge, that is the Savanna which has no building  lots.  I'm not saying every lot is 25' above sea level.  Just a vast majority of them not on the water edge.  It seems so hard for some to believe that this place is for real.  I know you can buy property at a fraction of the cost of SB but it is a completely different product.  SB is high priced compared to most developments in Belize, but its not just a development.  It's a entire community that's being built that will for the most part be self sustaining.  I believe most of the negative comments on this thread come from people who can not swing the entrance fee.  One thing I'm sure of is that 90% of the negative comments come mostly from people who have not been there.  I'm going back in 2 weeks and I will get an answer to the lot elevation when I'm there.  Is there any other questions anyone wants me to ask while I'm at SB?  Line em up and I will get the answers as best I can

Halleb wrote:

I believe most of the negative comments on this thread come from people who can not swing the entrance fee.

You've got to be kidding right?  people mention the flooding problem and you dismiss it that the ones questioning must not have as much money as you?

Read this report 2009, the 6 areas most prone to flood in Belize.    One of the six is your area.  They didn't make this up just because they couldn't afford a lot

Belize flood risk

Who cares if you have a lot on a ridge when the rest of the services are under water - septic tanks, wells, common buildings get damaged and you get accessed fees through hoa.

Any real owner would want to learn as much as they can about their area -- I find the resistance to talking about it rather odd. There is a whole thread of people in consejo talking about the yearly floods they have, but SB already had a major flood this past June and everyone is acting like it can't ever happen? But so many people on this thread already are actually sales people for SB -- TravelwriterGary, kathyBelize, maybe you too.

You are intitled to your opinion.  I have actually been to SB.  Have you?  I understand that flooding is an issue on any coast line and more so in a land that gets a lot of rain.  So one need to prepare accordingly and this is what I have seen at SB.  I continue to ask question and so far I get all the right answers.  That's not to say mistakes won't happen, I'm sure there will be some.  But I am comfortable that things are progressing in a well thought out design.  I do apologize for sounding pompous as that was not my intent.  SB is more expensive than most places and many people looking for property in Belize pass it by due to this fact.  It was only an acknowledgment that the prices are up in SB and it's not for everyone.  Sorry if I offended anyone, not my intent.  But people who throw stones at the place would have a lot more legitimacy if they have actually been there.

I was looking at your blog and wondered how your tour of SB went.  My husband and I are going next week and are excited but cautious. Either way, we intend to enjoy the time away.

We are going on the 25th of October (2013) and really just wanting to know what to expect.  Would love to hear from someone who has already taken the tour (just to get a perspective different from the sales staff).

http://cbabelize.com/yahoo_site_admin/a … 102833.pdf

Here is a list of all building permits issues in Belize since 2009. Ten have been issued for buildings in SB. (One was for a bridge and 9 other for residential structures)
The last permit on went through in June 2012.
Nothing for this year. With all of the recent sales of land - one would assume that someone would be building?
Every building in Belize needs a permit.
If there are so many buildings there on site already- why don't they have permits for them?

You will have a great time.  The property is so much bigger than you can imagine.  The building is moving forward on some residents and the beach club.  There are not a lot of homes being built yet.  This will increase as time goes by.  Most people buying  have a 5 year plan and have bought in 2012-2013.  This is when the sales really took off.  My wife and I will be there on our second tour with you as we decided to switch lots and want to inspect the new one before entering under contract.  The place for the  most part is just what the sales people tell you.  I don't know who you are dealing with but my agent was great (Sandi) and did not over state what SB is.  There is no pressure to sign from the staff at SB while on tour.  You see it for yourself, if you like what you see , you buy.  If not, they will say thank you for coming and enjoy yourself. This kind of marketing only works when you have a product that is "that good"

I look forward to meeting you next week.  Please introduce yourself once we meet on Thursday night.  We are from Minnesota

One thing I would add is about the view.  Although the place is very beautiful,  it does not have a Caribbean Sea view except at the beach club.  Due to the lagoon and then the marina and the natural vegetation that is purposely left in place.  You can't see the ocean from the development.   But wait till you see the mountains and the Savanna, they took my breath away.  Not to mention the absolutely beautiful river and private island

I am a new participant in the blog. I have read with interest the comments of all involved to date. We are lot owners in SB. I have met and been around some of the principals of Eco Futures including Johnny Usher the resident Belize partner. I have also proposed on supplying equipment for the Marina area and other areas for the treatment of domestic waste.
Now for my concerns. Having been involved for over two years now I am disappointed with the rate of progress. I'm not sure all posters are aware but there is the beginning of a long runway international airport within 10 miles of the SB development. It has been under construction for several years. The projected finish date was one of the driving forces behind my investment. One problem, it now appears to be abandoned. The 8-9 thousand foot runway is in place but that is it. I was assured it was progressing and would be completed with two years. Not going to happen. I think the development is a great concept but is moving too slowly for my liking. I do have multiple lots in the Sapodilla Ridge area and would be interested in selling one at a reasonable price. I just want to reduce my exposure due to timing more than anything.

Redbird1

Dear Prestonia,

I agree with your points, and after spending tons of research time as well as visiting personally, decided it was worth the risk, and purchased a lot on the " ridge". I accepted all the negative and positive comments as just what they were, opinions, then went to SB myself, and formed my own.

As far as being an " agent" for SB, I do have a connection where people can go to get answers and sign up for a tour. I don't work for them, I'm just a property owner who believes in the project, even if it takes years to complete.

Bottom line, interested parties need to go there and make their own educated decisions.

Just saying

I took tour of SB this past August. You can read my day by day blog about it at

storiesbygary.wordpress.com

Open the blog, then open archive October on right side for the 4 blogs covering tour.

Hope you enjoy the tour, I did, and congrats for choosing to go and see yourself.
Let us know what you think.

GW

went in the beginning of oct to view the property. we put a deposit on a lot and decided not to proceed with the purchase.
the sales team said you will get a refund within a week of filing the forms.we still have not received a refund as of this writing.our canadian rep said it will be processed next week. by the way our canadian rep from calgary was very good for information. if you are planning to go to sanctuary, do your home work on the surrounding area out side of the community of sanctuary. we did not, and the staff there will not offer much information as they do not want you out and off the property to compare.
we toured placencia for an afternoon with a very informative realestate agent that showed us pretty much all there was to see. that was a great eye opener.
as for the property and there prices at sanctuary, you can find much better in placencia with services in tact.
good luck to the investors.

Interesting statement " did not want you off the property to compare"? I went on tour in August, and the staff (Investment Consultants) provided  couple a vehicle and lunch so they could investigate the outside world, and where to get supplies, etc.
All they had to do was ask..and it wasn't a problem.
This couple was concerned with outside SB and shopping for supplies,NAND didn't want to commit to their lot until satisfied.
They decided after touring the surroundings and towns, to purchase their lots.
Like I said, Sanctuary Belieze isn't for everyone. Do your due diligence, and when there, checkout every question you have.
Cheers all,
No shirt, no shoes , no problemsb;-)

8 of us were at the front desk for 15 minutes talking with the gal there. she was phoning the cab company for us. we wanted a van for all of us but none were available from the cab company so we were going to rent 2 cars.
after the 15 mins she finally told us they had a van that could take us to placencia.
as others have said on this blog, some of the participants are working for SB

Well  I came in early on my first tour just to go into Placencia to check on realestate and to make sure that I was satisfied with SB.  Here is what I found.  Tons off nice property's for half to 1/3 the price of SB.  Yet I purchased a lot in SB .  Nothing I found offered me anything close to what I found in SB.  Now if I were planning to live in Belize full time, I might have had a different opinion.  But my master plan is to be a snow bird spending Dec-the end of April in Belize then summers back in Minnesota.  I wanted a gated property with community as my number one priority.  Like minded people as neighbors in the same situation.  What I was afraid of was buying property in a small village or town and have a hard time assimulating to the native community.  Not to mention needing a care taker or gaurd during the months your not using it.  I saw plenty of beach homes with razor wire around them.  Now I know some come here just for that reason, to assimulatie I mean, and that is fine.  Just wasn't what I was looking for.  So when weighing the community, the safety of the gates, the tons of activitys and things to do here plus the size of the place (1800 lots)  it sold me as both a good long term investment and the place I want to spend my golden year winters in.  I will stress that it will be at least 5 years in my opinion for you to sell a lot at today's prices and break even.  People who got in early could break even or even make a little right now.

So to summarize the surrounding realestate market to SB I would say it like this. Completely different product.  Value is in the eye of the beholder.  If your dream is to move to Belize and fit in with the native people and culture, then SB is not for you.  But if being part of an expat community then I have seen nothing that compares.
Just a side note on the progress of the place.  There is now a master time line that the project should complete within 48 months or less.  Given the lot sales to date, they have the money to finish on time now, without selling any more lots.  Only time will tell if we were wise or foolish

@beart9. Who on here works for SB?  I'd like to know because this accusation comes up from several bloggers and I'm curious who it is.  It maybe true, just I have no clue from what I've read who it might be.

don't know for sure, but as others have mentioned,and i agree that usually if you find posters with few negative points in a property especially one like SB, where there are many you have to wonder.this blog is no different than a stock blog or forum.
Just a note that on our tour with at least 20 people, know one that we know of purchased a lot. i was told it was the first time that, that has happened. makes sense to me. way to much money.
get your buddy's together and build a lock off where you all have your own room that is all yours and have a common area for all to use. i will be in that process soon. there is also a gated community in placencia. check it out while you are there.