Permanent Resident Visas and cars

I'm in the same boat.  I will probably get my residente permanente in April and have ask for an importation quote from tiocorpinsurance.com/ to change my Colorado tags to Mexican.  They're busy so I don't have the quote yet but you might give them a try.

Thanks Mike.......would you please share the information when you do receive it?  So far i have found out there is no problem getting insurance ....the perm res visa has nothing to do with it as long as the car has usa tags..........so you are from Colorado too?  cold up there right now isnt it........

I'm sure this will happen to me as well since i'm on my way to the expat life. My response should get me on the alert list.
Thank you,
john

Where are you  going to live in Mexico Mike?......I do hope you will have or are having a great experience......this forum is really helpful........

Jean Ann... I too am in the same boat.  I recently received my permanent resident visa and have a car with South Dakota plates.  I am hearing the same things as reported here... that the new law is continuing to be interpreted.  Living in Baja California, it does not seem to be a big deal at this point.  I believe my car is eligible for importation this November... something I am considering, although it is fairly expensive.

Please keep us posted on what you find out.

Mike... at what border city will this service,tiocorpinsurance.com/, allow you to import your car?

Jean Ann,

To be honest, I don't remember.  Scour the website, I think I remember at least a couple of different cities.  I still haven't heard anything from them so I'm beginning to wonder.

Mike

I am not sure what you mean by saying your car is due for importation..............I drove across the border in 2007 and have never driven it back.......

I'm putting this on here for the possible benefit of others who still live above the border and are thinking of moving to Mexico.

Don't bring a car here.

Sell the one you have above the border, and buy another here that has Mexican plates. It may cost a bit more at the get-go, but you will avoid lots of worries and headaches. Plus the cops will notice you less.

Check out 'Expats living in Mexico' on FB. There is a wealth of knowledge there and you can ask questions for the group to answer.

my 2 cents is this on the subject of driving a car with foreign plates after changing to a permanent residency card and was confirmed by a mexican lawyer in the immigratiion office in tuxtla gutierrez chiapas. dont worry .
i downloaded the law from the aduana website regarding temporal import of foreign vehicles and it says , i parafrase , your permit is automatically renew with the re newel of you forma migratorio AND its changes , prorrogas and changes from no imigrate to imigrate when there is no break in the sequence or lapse . it doesnt specifically mention FM2 or FM3 . it just says valid , current visa status . also the lawyer in the migra office confirmed this but said the reason was that the FM3 category has been eliminated . in my case i have been using my FM3 for 12 years and have had my US plated truck here for 9 . since i never replace the hologram i have the same expired sticker from 9 years ago . i have had to explain plenty that i didnt make the law and show the transit and federals the page from the aduana and have to say take the car , but aduana will only tell you to give it back . the fact is they can only impound and the right to import /export falls to aduana . sorry to be so rambling , but its a complex subject . but in hindsite i agree with the commentor that says , sell you foreign car and buy one here in mexico . much easier .

justinmango wrote:

my 2 cents is this on the subject of driving a car with foreign plates after changing to a permanent residency card and was confirmed by a mexican lawyer in the immigratiion office in tuxtla gutierrez chiapas. dont worry .
i downloaded the law from the aduana website regarding temporal import of foreign vehicles and it says , i parafrase , your permit is automatically renew with the re newel of you forma migratorio AND its changes , prorrogas and changes from no imigrate to imigrate when there is no break in the sequence or lapse . it doesnt specifically mention FM2 or FM3 . it just says valid , current visa status . also the lawyer in the migra office confirmed this but said the reason was that the FM3 category has been eliminated . in my case i have been using my FM3 for 12 years and have had my US plated truck here for 9 . since i never replace the hologram i have the same expired sticker from 9 years ago . i have had to explain plenty that i didnt make the law and show the transit and federals the page from the aduana and have to say take the car , but aduana will only tell you to give it back . the fact is they can only impound and the right to import /export falls to aduana . sorry to be so rambling , but its a complex subject . but in hindsite i agree with the commentor that says , sell you foreign car and buy one here in mexico . much easier .

This is a bit of misinformation. The ADUANA rules are for no Inmigrantes or Inmigrante Rentistas as stated on the same page you refer to and you definitely have to notify ADUANA in a freeform letter every time you renew these visas or your TIP is cancelled. That being the case if you did not notify ADUANA and receive a letter from them confirming your TIP has been renewed every year your TIP has been canceled for as many years as the last time ADUANA has you on record as having a valid TIP. Also further down on ADUANA´s  Article 62 you copied and sited in your post is the statement "You must follow the ADUANA rules to keep your vehicle legally in Mexico" [paraphrased].

Also Residente Permanents or Residente Temporals with a "Permiso para Trabajar" are not allowed to have a TIP, same as the older classification as Inmigrado and Inmigrante Lucritiva, a non rentista as the rules you copied states very clearly. You left out the Renista when quoting "Inmigrante." Only Inmigrante Rentistas can have a valid TIP. The even older term was FM2 Rentista [Retiree].

INM does not notify ADUANA of your INM document renewals. You DO.

Also it has been confirmed by a reputable lawyer who works with Expats in Chapala that  any Federal Police have the authority to ask Expats driving foreign plated cars for their INM document and TIP document where the current letter from ADUANA is needed to prove a current valid TIP and if not they are authorized to impound your vehicle and call ADUANA in to impound it or seize it.

That has happened inside Mexico and Expats have paid fines of around $7,000 pesos to get it back from ADUANA and receive a no fee "Safe Return" permit valid for 15 days to remove the vehicle from Mexico or have it nationalized, and need to turn in their expired TIP on the border, no questions asked. 

In Baja a Residente Permanente cannot drive a foreign plated car or neither can a Residente Temporal with a "Permiso para Trabajar". that they OWN. They can drive anyone else's that have the correct INM status or tourist status etc, no problem, if they are asked for their INM visa, very rare. Technically it should be a close relative´s vehicle with the correct INM status. You cannot drive another Residente Permanente´s illegally in Mexico foreign plated vehicle.

The only way I could see this as a problem is if someone turned you into ADUANA, otherwise why would the Federal Police or an ADUANA agent question your foreign plated car in Baja. Even in case of an accident Municipal Police or State Police have no authority to ask for documents.

Insurance companies are a different story in case of an accident in Baja, I presume.

Tourists and Residente Temporals can drive a foreign plated vehicle that they own if the vehicle registration and drivers license is current.

you are right sir. except for the part about the letter , in my case anyway. i got my permission in 2009 , before the change and aduana told me as long as it never lapsed it was grandfathered in the old rules . i have been thru the customs inspection station 4xs and i have never shown a letter and have not had my truck confiscated . it seems the new migra rules re the perm residency will throw a major wrench into the works of millions of expats and their foreign plated cars . it seems the only options at this point are 3 : return the car to the states , not an option in my case as it isnt worth the gas , take it out and replate it as a mexican vehicle , adain not an option as its japanese and not on the nafta list OR register it with UCD . is that how you see it ? of course i will no longer pass thru the customs port here in chiapas and will only use it around town for doing errands and going to the beach. thanks for the correction.

justinmango wrote:

you are right sir. except for the part about the letter , in my case anyway. i got my permission in 2009 , before the change and aduana told me as long as it never lapsed it was grandfathered in the old rules . i have been thru the customs inspection station 4xs and i have never shown a letter and have not had my truck confiscated . it seems the new migra rules re the perm residency will throw a major wrench into the works of millions of expats and their foreign plated cars . it seems the only options at this point are 3 : return the car to the states , not an option in my case as it isnt worth the gas , take it out and replate it as a mexican vehicle , adain not an option as its japanese and not on the nafta list OR register it with UCD . is that how you see it ? of course i will no longer pass thru the customs port here in chiapas and will only use it around town for doing errands and going to the beach. thanks for the correction.

The rule in ADUANA´s law has been in existence since at least 2002 but you might not have been aware that your TIP was canceled by not going in to one of their offices with your renewed INM visa and a copy and a freeform letter and your original TIP document and a copy to renew the TIP. Then they sent the form they fill out and all those copies to Mexico City and they mail you a letter back if approved. No fee.

As far as checkpoints are concerned I have been here long enough to realize that officials will not always know the rules and even if they do. usually do not like to hassle nice guys or us older retired guys so that seems to be the norm. Only if for whatever reason they didn´t think of you as some old nice retired guy might they even say anything.

and what do you think about the UCD plates avenue . BTW , i have a mexican wife.

justinmango wrote:

and what do you think about the UCD plates avenue . BTW , i have a mexican wife.

UCD plates are plentiful enough here. I have read they are restricted to states of their origin and Guadalajara and Mexico City don´t allow them there as a few other places.

I also have a Mexican wife and she seems to have no problem talking at checkpoint if they even want to ask questions, very rarely do.

We do a lot of weekend driving from here, San Luis Potosi, and never have problems but have passed a few vehicles with Texas plates at checkpoints getting a more scrutinized work over and even a few pulled over by Federal Police on highways as of our last few outings. I don´t know what that is all about but mainly large pickups or SUVs.

We are perhaps working in an Alice in Wonderland fog, but we operated with an FM-III for 10 years, taking advantage of the annualised nature of that special visa.   At that time it was required to be so documented  in order to proceed on a land purchase.   The immigration law, and land tenure conditions changed to the point that foreigners no longer have to have anything beyond the basic tourist visa.   We own an adobe home that we built....we receive guests....and we have almost two acres on a beautiful, spring-fed river, in a place replete with 450 species of birds, nestled up against the high Sierra Madre.

    We pay our land taxes, stay out of the way, and worship the Army and Naval Infantry...who are winning this dreadful war against the most dreadful of disgusting cockroaches.  With little thanks from the Ex-Pats, at least the ones with whom I have encounters in the City.   They almost all have the same self-centre'd tail-chasing, worrying about this detail and that interpretation and whatiffie monster,,,,
     We take out a new importation permit for our old 1992 Dodge every six months....we never have any problem....the police have not bothered us since the PAN took over the Presidency...and we are hoping that this present administration can avoid the temptation to slide back into the direction of the days of Echeverria-Alvarez and Lopez-Portillo.
     Everything is in our name....electricity, propane delivery, ejido water system. The Ejido Water Committee has borrowed over 5,000 dollar from us to quick finance urgent repairs, and they have always paid us back, very quickly.   Our guests knock off Bohemia and Corona (no lite beer or lite sodas)and our special Margaritas, Smoothies, Martinis, Cuba Libres, and Tom Collins while sighting what is so far, in 12 years, over 3,000 "lifers" which is something considering that we only have one guest room.
    Non-Drinking guests seem to find about the same number per day / per person and the elbow benders.   They all seem to like the meals and the parrilladas and the general ambience.

    What I guess we are urging is to spend more time worrying about doing what you all went to Mexico to do....Check your vehicles in once every six months or every year depending on your FM status...or just buy a little Mexican Volkswagen, used or new, and go down to the registration office, stand in line and get it over with.  Do good works, have good times, bend the details to your favour, be Samaritan.

    Pardon my impatience, but I have been eating NoDoze and drinking Air Wick all week....and it always makes me grumpy.


El Gringo Viejo

I'm here only out of curiosity because I don't own a car and never plan to.  I'll be starting the process of converting to Permanente next month and am trying to absorb everything known about it.

It may just be my weird personality but every time I see the word visa I have to stop reread and make sure I know what you really are talking about.  It would be kindly and a help to me if you stop calling the old FM2-3's and the new photo ID's visas.  Visas are stickers or stamps in your passport.  When I got my FM@ the first time in 1982, I had a Visa Stamp in my passport for 1 year only.  When I arrived this time in 2008 I had a visa sticker in my passport for 1 year only.  When I renewed my US passport in 2010, I was not required to go to a Mexican consulate or INM office to get a visa stamp or sticker.  I don't have any visas in my passport other than the IN/OUT stamps when I go back to the States and return.  Why not just call the photo ID's, INM ID's?

WTF?????

gudgrief wrote:

Visas are stickers or stamps in your passport.

Actually, a visa is any document that permits you to enter a country and stay for a set period of time. In a greater sense, the FMM (Tourist Permit) is a type of visa.

joaquinx wrote:

gudgrief wrote:

Visas are stickers or stamps in your passport.

Actually, a visa is any document that permits you to enter a country and stay for a set period of time. In a greater sense, the FMM (Tourist Permit) is a type of visa.

For what it's worth, I see a difference between the noun and verb.
vi·sa  (vz)
n.
An official authorization appended to a passport, permitting entry into and travel within a particular country or region.
tr.v. vi·saed, vi·sa·ing, vi·sas
1. To endorse or ratify (a passport).
2. To give a visa to.
[French, short for Latin (carta) vsa, (the document has been) seen, from feminine past participle of vidre, to see; see weid- in Indo-European roots.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
visa [ˈviːzə]
n pl -sas
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) an endorsement in a passport or similar document, signifying that the document is in order and permitting its bearer to travel into or through the country of the government issuing it
2. any sign or signature of approval
vb -sas, -saing, -saed (tr)
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) to enter a visa into (a passport)
2. to endorse or ratify
[via French from Latin vīsa things seen, from vīsus, past participle of vidēre to see]

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

Also there is nothing I have read that refers to the process and document described on the INM website being referred to as a visa or the approval being visaing.

For what it's worth.

What is a visa?

A visa (from the Latin charta visa, lit. "paper that has been seen")[1] is a document showing that a person is authorized to enter or leave the territory for which it was issued, subject to permission of an immigration official at the time of actual entry. The authorization may be a document, but more commonly it is a stamp endorsed in the applicant's passport (or passport-replacing document). Some countries do not require a visa in some situations, such as a result of reciprocal treaty arrangements. The country issuing the visa typically attaches various conditions of stay, such as the territory covered by the visa, dates of validity, period of stay, whether the visa is valid for more than one visit, etc.

Keep your grammar lessons to yourself.

That's the stamp in your passport when you enter and leave.

gudgrief wrote:

That's the stamp in your passport when you enter and leave.

There are no stamps on my passport and I have entered and left several time.

joaquinx wrote:

gudgrief wrote:

That's the stamp in your passport when you enter and leave.

There are no stamps on my passport and I have entered and left several time.

Interesting.  Are you violating the rule that requires you to pass through Migracion on leaving and returning?  Do you even get an FMM when you leave?

They have never failed to stamp my passport at the Reynosa or Nuevo Laredo border crossings.

More than one person has commented that INM personal don't seem to know the rules as some border crossings.

I ask the questions I do because I try to avoid generalizing from only my personal experience.

A few years ago, Mexico didn't require a passport to enter the country. It did require a birth certificate. I believe that this requirement is still in use today, although the US does require a passport to reenter the country. So, without a passport, where did the INM agent put the stamp?

Did you read my previous post from Wikipedia?

joaquinx wrote:

A few years ago, Mexico didn't require a passport to enter the country. It did require a birth certificate. I believe that this requirement is still in use today, although the US does require a passport to reenter the country. So, without a passport, where did the INM agent put the stamp?

Did you read my previous post from Wikipedia?

I did read your wikipedia post.  And it is definitely a matter of interpretation.  However you did not address my last post.

Years ago, up until shortly after 9/11, you only needed a drivers license to enter Mexico as a tourist.  Mexico's requirements didn't change till the US started requiring passports to enter the US.  That's typical of customs and immigration requirements.  Mexico and the US make it equally easy or difficult for citizens of other countries as those countries make it for US and Mexican citizens.  For instance, German and Danish coworkers didn't need the original visa sticker in their passports when then first entered Mexico seeking FM2's, I did,

Does the US consider a Green Card a visa?  The INM photo ID is more of a Green Card than anything else.