It turns out that Citizenship not even an option!

Also found this link may help the debate...

mauritiusinsider.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/what-does-permanent-residence-mean-in.html#!/2008/08/

Looking forward to your advice

Is anyone with experience on visa etc.. Actually going to answer this for all of us who find the process confusing, or just view and ignore?  I would really appreciate some feed back on this post. :-)

Just to clarify guess I am asking if citizenship even possible for a foreign national?
It seems alot to up root my family to have a good 3 maybe 6 years but then not be able to get a mortgage, buy a house, settle down etc?

Please can someone clarify or share knowledge.

Thank you in advance
Branson

Unless your wife is a Mauritian citizen , the answer WOULD be NO  except if  you are an investor
as per this:
http://pmo.gov.mu/English/dha/Mandate/P … NSHIP.aspx

NATURALIZATION FOR INVESTORS
Under section 9(3) of the Mauritius Citizenship Act an investor may be naturalized as a citizen of Mauritius if:
(i) he has invested a sum of not less than 500,000 US dollars in Mauritius;and
(ii) he has resided in Mauritius for a continuous period of not less than 2 years preceding the date of his application
Application under section 9(3) of the Mauritius Citizenship Act shall be submitted to the Secretary for Home Affairs in the form set out at Appendix V. The application shall be subscribed in the presence of a Judge or the Master and Registrar of the Supreme Court or a District Magistrate.
An applicant for Naturalization under section 9(3) of the Mauritius Citizenship Act shall in addition place an advertisement in two daily newspapers in the form set out at the bottom of page 4 of the application form referred to above.
The following documents shall be submitted in original and two photocopies along with the application and the renunciation forms:
(a) birth and marriage certificates of applicant;
(b) first five pages of applicant's passport;
(c) residence permit of applicant;
(d) certificate of investment in Mauritius;
(e) one issue of two daily newspapers containing the advertisement referred to at section above; and
(f) Morality Certificate

However , here comes the catch:

Citizenship by naturalisation is granted on a discretionary basis by the Prime Minister's Office.

--------------------------------------------------------------

It is silly but the island is not the only country that has this practice btw.

Hello Sir,

I suggest you contact the Board of Investment for valid advice as immigration laws and work permit regulation are in constant mutation over the past few years.

http://www.investmauritius.com/Default.aspx

However, you are entitled to permanent residency if you invest under the IRS (Integrated Resort Scheme) or RES ( Real Estate Scheme).
it means that you must purchase a luxury residential unit starting at USD 500,000 ( MRU. 15 million)

Based on the new legislation following the 2013 Budget in November 2012, professionals like you can now buy an apartment in a building complex of MORE than 2 storeys if you earn a monthly salary of more than USD 3,000 ( MRU. 90,000). This can be done once you have your 'Occupation Permit' in hand. You wife and children will also be covered under this new regulation.

Hope that helps. Should you have any query, we will be here to help.

Regards

Kaviraj

To be honest I wouldn't even bother thinking about it. If you are moving here with the mindset of moving permanently you are alrdeady jumping the gun. First come here, work, then decide if you want to stay for good. You may change you mind anyway, as many expats do.

Indeed, first you just have to come here, work and explore the different avenues. Then you can decide. The residency application  will be a whole lot easier after three years of work.

Hi SirRichBranson,

I have purposefully not read the replies to your posting as I wanted to answer your question according to my personal experience only. I'm a Senior IT professional too, worked in many blue chips in UK, including working for Royal Mail IT HQ (in 1997) based in Chesterfield (very near Sheffield as you know!).

Though I'm british-born, both my parents are Mauritian. This fact alone, you would think, would gain me a bit more 'favour' than someone who has no mauritian connections whatsoever... however i'll come back to this in a moment. I came here in 2007 under an Occupation Permit (Investor). Here is what i've experienced:

(1) I built an E-Commerce based business using Mauritius as a hub. Was selling to a few European countries direct from Mauritius and, after pushing our sales to 5,000 units in our first year, 8,000 after 3 years. I then decided to 'open' my platform for all businesses located on this island. At this same time (having done 3 years) BOI wanted to kick me out. I pleaded and pleaded as, the only reason they found was that my company should have made Rs 6 Million when, in fact, we made Rs 5 Million. On the face of it you would think they had grounds to kick me out, but I knew they didn't have to. I told them this was pioneering work designed to help mauritian businesses use the net to sell to Europe. They just didn't want to know. I went through HELL because of this. In fact I went through so much hell. I had to leave the country in 7 days. I did not know what to do. I was well pissed off. I then (and I was lucky here) decided to become a Mauritian Citizen... just so that I could stay. Even THAT was hell and took a good 1.25 years. Apparently this had to be decided at Prime Ministerial level even though the law does say I AM entitled to it.

In the meantime I was constantly under threat of being kicked out. A real nightmare this period was. Yes the law changes here constantly... that is for sure! The rules change all the time and when you don't expect it. Today it's one thing, literally tomorrow you'll read something else. In fact, it changes so much that even the civil servants themselves are not so sure anymore. When you ask for a piece of information, you must ask three seperate people. And don't you DARE blame THEM for this incompetency. They will say "It's your fault. You should know the answer yourself". I asked BOI if it wasn't their job to advise us to which they replied "It's not our job to advise you or to help you in any way. Our job is merely to take your paper applications. It's YOUR job to know the rules and all regulations". BOI used this on me. BEWARE!!!! 

(2) You will not be granted Permanent Residency. When your time is nearly up, you'll be kicked out. Unless you're really Richard Branson, all that will happen is your expertise will be used, copied and you kicked out. You're just a sugar cane waiting to e chewed and spat out. Yes you're right, immoral practices is not unusual in this country.

(3) Rs 100,000? You'll be lucky if you get Rs 30,000. It matters not even if you invented Windows. I'm the first MCSE qualified person on this island, SQL Server Specialist since 1995, and I can't manage to get even Rs 25,000 here. In fact I can't get a job anywhere on this island. It's not whether one is qualified or not.. it's all about whether they (a) recognise your talents in the first place and (b) whether you'll accept peanuts for it. And what could happen is (c) they decide to give the role to one of their mates.. less qualified, but that doesn't matter.

The lesson I learned is this: The better Mauritius does, the more they will chew and spit you out. However the worse it does, the more they fall to your feet begging you to come. This is an upward/downward graph... all depends when you're applying. IF i was you and career is important to you, stay in England.

@Kaviraj G
Thankyou Sir for the web link and sharing your advice, this is really appreciated. Though it seems to me that advice is conflicted all over the place hence why I wanted to cut through all the red-tape stuff and focus on what matters the most to me - namely if I was to move from UK would Mauritius honour that or basically screw me off.

@Strawb
Thank you for sharing your opinion but I dont agree that I am jumping the gun in anyway. If I was a single expat perhaps then I would be jumping the gun. The reality is that I have a wife and 4 daughters to think about not just now but their futures too so my question is valid and relevant even though I havent experienced the culture or indeed lived on the island. I do however value your feedback and can see your point for which I thank you.

@Stormtrooper

Perhaps it is a small world after all (Sheffield), i'm actually closer to Barnsley if this means anything to you. Let me say clearly I really value that you have taken the time to give me a candid and reality check (Without are the normal waffle you often see with people quoting different Acts/clauses but not really being clear on any of them themselves). Also thank you for sharing some of your life experience with me this has really helped I feel stop us from making a BIG mistake.

I've got about 13 years+ in the ICT sector, currently a CRM/Business Intelligence expert (SQL Server etc) some of your story is familiar to my own I have certifications and have run my own Ltd E-Commerce company etc over here in UK with some measure of success. Though sadly "I am no Richard Branson" - in my dreams.

Concerning your story, well I suspected as much based on my interpretation of the laws and some of the testimonies... its hard to believe that you didnt get favour through bloodlines (What a joke).

Also it seems to me that you had a successful/sustainable business model with very good revenue and "even that" wasnt enough?!?!? WTF. I also found it interesting that the legislation currently say's you have to earn a minimum of 40,000 RS to get occupational permit; or 30,000 RS if an ICT Professional .... that said it all to me.

What is all this crap about "cyber city" and then paying developers peanuts in the industry? It's like you say, its a honey pot to attract talented individuals for a season only to then tell them later in life - to piss off.

Well... hopefully my question here combined with your "real world" experience may hopefully stop lots of people from moving over there with loads of dreams only to be bitterly disappointed.

For me, to be honest I am a little drained with the career, just want an easier life in the sun and would even consider doing a basic job... realised their is more to life.

Thanks again for saving me and my family what would have been an hell on earth experience, mauritius is an unstable and unhealthy platform to launch a new life (unless you are local).

Thanks mate and wish you best on your journey
Sir Branson :-)

To us even on a 3 year contract and when and if it ends, we have had had a fantastic experience here - the quality of life has and is fantastic and one we would not have missed.

So if we have to return to the UK - we will return with the knowledge of "thank God we took the chance and came here" after all you only live once and we kept our house in the UK albeit with tenants in so at least we have our house to return too

If it was that bad here then there would be no expats still coming here would there?

If you can get a job here, take the chance and even if you only get one year then what a year it will have been

Good luck

@rosie
Good point and won't deny it's tempting but we don't have the luxury of renting our UK house so it would need to be something more permanent ideally. Though I agree you only live once and it sounds like a great experience we will see I guess :-) For now going explore other places to live. I think Antigua may be easier but it's a little too slow-running and expensive for my tastes :-)

My husband and I have moved over here from the UK. We have sold up everything and are here on a 3 year permit.

I agree with Rosie - if anything it is the experience. I know we would've regretted it if we didn't do it. We could not see a future for us in UK even though we both have professional qualifications. So many people we know are leaving the UK - there is a real "brain drain" going on there. We wanted a better quality of life which we are experiencing and know that if after 3 years we are "kicked out" we will have changed and enriched our lives FOR our future.

Remember the rules change all the time so who knows what will happen when we come up for renewal. We have a plan B ( and C and D!!!). There are hurdles that have to be overcome wherever you would go - but the rewards are so worth it!

I would recommend getting a good management company/professional advice. 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

@Guruj

Thanks for sharing your experience and advice really appreciated. The thought has crossed our minds, are we over-analysing, trying to add dots to all our i's where the truth is life doesn't work in that way - it just happens or we just go through the same boring repetitive motions to pay bills (we call it living -!). There seems to be many options to where we could live in this big world guess it comes down to our instincts... It's hard for people like me who think in binary to take the leap but we do have to at some point as is something which won't stop pulling on us.

.. What to do 

The UK is definitely more draining than ever, the unhealthy mindset of you got to be more productive with less resource is rampart across all sectors and levels

Hi,

I find that quite weird, since both your parents are mauritian you should have the birthright to be mauritian same like my daughter.
I have a friend british born and his dad was mauritian and his mum irish, when he settled here, it was no problem for him to get his id card and a good job in the hotel.

I came here in 2004 as the wife of a mauritian, i easily got a job in cybercity as language specialist over 30k was no problem even i was not experienced in that field.
there are btw many expats which earn wellover 100k a month.

but one thing is for sure that if in mauritius 100 people go trough the same procedure for something, it wll turn out 100 times differen, especially with the buerocracy, police and immigration office like to tell everyone different things.
i wish good luck and find your story very sad to be treated like this, where you should be able to be proud of your country.
regards
wiz

to richard branson i find as well you should first try it, i have sme friends here which came for 3 years on a work permit and apparently after 5-7 years they can apply for citizenship without much investment, but i don't know the details.
good luck wherever you go.

Highly informative debate/discussion....

We should keep it running.

People who are trying to move to Mauritius, like me, are really going to benefit a lot.

Since we know that rules keep changing all the time so it will be great if our seniors keep posting the summary/catch of the amendments on a real time basis, if possible.

The fact of the matter is, the west is in dire economic situation right now. I've been to France lately, that's getting worse over there. The US is no better with cities and states going bankrupt. Many westerners are leaving their country.
Well, Mauritius is still doing well and I know many people interested in making it home.
Trust me, there are a whole lot many people earning over 150k a month in Mauritius!
Yes, you should first try to move in for a year or two and see if the country is for you before making a decision to settle here.
Immigration is a nightmare for every newcomer who is not used to bureaucracy and redtape. I've experienced it and I know.
Good luck

I hope that the Government of Mauritius continues to make the business of settling in Mauritius a challenge. That way only those who are serious will stay and those who expect the easy street will move on. I lived in Australia for over 40 years and the aussies talk about assimilation, I wonder how many prospective immigrants to Mauritius will do what they preach.

This is definitely an interesting thread. I have myself come to the end of my occupation permit (as self-employed), and I am waiting for my renewal (fingers crossed... normally I'm way above the BOI threshold so it should be fine - in fact I should be entitled to permanent residence).

In the mean time I married a Mauritian woman so if worse comes to worse I can always go through the "permanent residence because i'm married route", but the administrative burden of doing so was a *complete drag* (daily round trips to port louis to deal with various administrations are just a nightmare) compared to just renewing my 3 year occupation permit. Much easier to just sign another Rs 15,000 cheque "let me in for another 3 years please".

We'll see how it goes... I hope it does well. For me, Mauritius is as close to paradise as it can be. Now if there could be less paperwork in paradise... :-)

moozie wrote:

I hope that the Government of Mauritius continues to make the business of settling in Mauritius a challenge. That way only those who are serious will stay and those who expect the easy street will move on. I lived in Australia for over 40 years and the aussies talk about assimilation, I wonder how many prospective immigrants to Mauritius will do what they preach.

The reality is that we will come to a point where MRU will not be able to accommodate more people. Will not be sustainable if we consider the area of the land and resources available. Even today, the effects on the real estate sector is being greatly felt. There is also a risk of social disturbance due to increased competition b/w locals and expats.
The government should not forget the fact that MRU is a small island and start making the right moves that would benefit everyone.

The reality is that we will come to a point where MRU will not be able to accommodate more people.

That's just ridiculous. The island is crowded because Mauritians have many kids. Not because of the expats... they're a super small subset of the population.

Mauritian immigration policy is a clever one, as it is clearly geared toward capital and skill drain. Can you tell us why is importing productive, highly skilled, and well-off individuals such a problem? Because they get the economy going? Because they pay more taxes than the average? Because they like going to expensive hotels, buying luxury cars, and employ house maids and gardeners? Well then you may want to get rid of tourists as well, I mean, 1+M a year, right?

You can kick all these guys out, and you will *not* end up any better, quite the contrary in fact.

It seems to be Mauritius is doing a lot better than a lot of other countries. Given the fact that it has zero natural resources and very little industry, and I think foreign direct investment and business friendly environment (at least on the surface) has a lot to do with it.

So unless you want to go back to the stone age, having a zero immigration policy is *NOT* the way to go. You can't have your cake and eat it.

@ jhiver
What a cheek, living in a country, and accusing the population of having too many kids. May be you don't know much about the island, but busy just making money and enjoying the high life. I spent a long time on the island and visit at least once a year, and the majority of people have 2-3 children. People there want to give the best to their children and most of the new generation have a degree. I don't think Mauritius should import "so called brain" from abroad, this island is doing very well. And also which country in the world can you go and settle for free!!! In UK it is becoming almost impossible for foreigners to come and settle easily. The immigration law keep changing and racism getting worse. May be people should check the law in their own country before complaining about other countries. If you are not happy with a country's law then you should get out.

@Jhiver

Sir, do you even have an iota of understanding with respect to economics and do you even know the specifications of Mauritius before spouting such nonsense?
Most Mauritian couples today have no more than 2 children and by the way, a local couple can have as many children as they wish provided they have the financial means to support a large family.
What do you suggest? That Mauritians stop having children to allow a larger number of expats to settle? Please dude!

The number of expats can be insignificant compared to the local population but the pressure exerted on some sectors can be big.
Mauritius is a densely populated island that has already reached saturation in many fields. Opening the floodgate wide will have considerable impact on the economic, social and demographic spheres of the island. The real estate sector is one major example where the average Mauritian now have to splash over five times the market value to buy a property due to speculations and conversion of agricultural land by promoters to develop luxury projects geared towards expats.

Bringing capital and skills do not necessarily mean to trade Mauritian assets (IRS/RES land, public beaches to hotels, etc) and our own graduates and post graduates. Do you know about the Global Business sector? HSBC, Barclays, Standard Chartered operate huge offshore businesses from within Mauritius and these companies are run mostly by locals both at the employees and management level. This is one sound example of foreign investment which benefits every party and which is unlikely to negatively impact the society.

Foreigners get the economy going? You means foreigners buying IRS villas which have been quite a flop till now? You are far from the real picture dude. I can assure you we, locals, will not die of starvation should you pack up and leave. I suggest you buy the 2013 Edition of 'Top 100 Companies' by La Sentinelle and you will have a better understanding of the Mauritian economy. The largest companies in almost all sectors of the economy are all Mauritian and driven by consumerism which depends on a very large part on the local population. Even hotels and other resorts are trying to attract locals to compensate for the decrease in the number of tourists.
You seem to have a very high opinion of expats, you being one, but very limited knowlege of the Mauritian context.
Buying luxury cars? I wish to inform you that only for last year, on the 1100 BMWs, Merdedes, and Porsches sold, more than 90% were bought by locals and locally owned companies. I should know it, I work in Ebene where there is a very high density of premium cars.

I am not asking to kick out all expats, Mauritius is not a communist state. I am stating the facts considering the local context where the government should implement the right measures to ensure that everyone benefit from the system. I would not fancy seeing the day where locals are openly calling for expats to be kicked out!

And yes, we will survive, with or without 'you'. You can be sure about that. We have done it in the 1970s when living in a small concrete house was considered a luxury.

Regards

Guys, we're getting more than off topic now. Please reconcentrate.

This said, Kaviraj, I am wondering what would be your definition of the "right measures"?

Simple...

More foreign investment in research, manufacturing and hi-tech industries and the financial sector.

A serious rethink of the real estate sector especially in relation to IRS/RES schemes.

jhiver wrote:

The reality is that we will come to a point where MRU will not be able to accommodate more people.

That's just ridiculous. The island is crowded because Mauritians have many kids. Not because of the expats... they're a super small subset of the population.

Mauritian immigration policy is a clever one, as it is clearly geared toward capital and skill drain. Can you tell us why is importing productive, highly skilled, and well-off individuals such a problem? Because they get the economy going? Because they pay more taxes than the average? Because they like going to expensive hotels, buying luxury cars, and employ house maids and gardeners? Well then you may want to get rid of tourists as well, I mean, 1+M a year, right?

You can kick all these guys out, and you will *not* end up any better, quite the contrary in fact.

Question to you since you seem to be the economic expert of the World Bank for the  Mauritius portfolio.

Is the island better off now as compared to 2006 when "Heaven's gates were opened to the  foreign brainiacs and their capital?
This wrt Housing, infrastructure, water( yep everyone NEEDS a pool in their back yard, and a dipping pool just in case ), electricity , white elephants as far as malls are concerned ?
Were those expats ( except for the South Africans ) used to have maids, nannies and gardeners in their home country ? or is it an advantage to live in a developing country where manual workers come cheap ( I am not speaking of those Corporate Expats execs and cadres on rotational missions for their employers- they were there since 1968 and after and not because "entrepreneurs were allowed in in 2006)
Were they able to stay  at the Intercontinental or Bristol and drive a Maserati when they were in their home country?
As far as making babies, check the stats from the WB data . Ignorance is bliss !!!

As far as "who gets the economy going" well have your fun :
http://business.mega.mu/2012/05/23/asse … -families/

I doubt they are the specimens of the "stone age"

Funny when one wonders who are the first ones to "biatch' about lack of water, power failure or traffic bottleneck !!!
I don't know how much/ how long you have lived ( not travelled)  around the world but , for sure , you are not an alert expat  about the positives and negatives of  immigration for any country and its habitants whether it is Switzerland and Australia ( I mention these two because they are in the news ) or UAE or developing nations like Mauritius.
Some policies taken by those in power on the island are faulty and I will stop at that  before  I get into trouble.

To all: sorry if my post seemed troll-ish, but all I wanted to highlight is my strong disagreement with the "we should stop immigration because the island is getting crowded" cliché.

So long as the immigration is controlled and selective (and I believe it currently is), then i don't think expats are the biggest problem when it comes to Mauritius demographics.

To put things into perspective, when I was a kid in the eighties, I grew up in the south west of France. At the time (and it struck me since I still remember it) there was a lot of racism towards Portuguese people.

You know, the usual "they stink, they steal, they take our jobs" sort of nonsense. Then the european union allowed every portuguese to move to France if they so wished. Did southwest of France get flooded with hordes of Portuguese then? Huhhh nope.

So while the rest of my rant might not have been spot on - and for this I apologize - I just wanted to say that the temptation is always great to say the cause of all problems is "foreigners".

Hell, the right wing in France is having this exact rethoric and that's part of the reason for which I went away... at some point the anti-foreigner sentiment was great and the slogan was something like "France, like it or leave it" - so I thought "screw this", and left my own country with no regrets.

As for me, I like it very much in Mauritius, and thus I'm going nowhere - so... peace :-)

As far as "who gets the economy going" well have your fun :
http://business.mega.mu/2012/05/23/asse … -families/

Big deal. 110 Bn Rs = 2.75 Bn euros = 13,750 households with an average patrimonial value of 200,000 EUR (the price of a nice house at local price). Which represents about 1% of the 1.3 million ppl in Mauritius.

So yeah. Kick 1% of the population (assuming that there's that many expats, which I'm not even sure of) and feel the pain... but then we won't know until that happens - and of course I hope it doesn't!

Cheers
JM

jhiver wrote:

As far as "who gets the economy going" well have your fun :
http://business.mega.mu/2012/05/23/asse … -families/

Big deal. 110 Bn Rs = 2.75 Bn euros = 13,750 households with an average patrimonial value of 200,000 EUR (the price of a nice house at local price). Which represents about 1% of the 1.3 million ppl in Mauritius.

So yeah. Kick 1% of the population (assuming that there's that many expats, which I'm not even sure of) and feel the pain... but then we won't know until that happens - and of course I hope it doesn't!

Cheers
JM

With all due respect,
"What the heck are you talking about ?"
These are Mauritian families who have been  getting the economy going since eons ( your qualification of the stone age )- whether in bad times ( when the IMF had its thumb on the govt) or in good times which according to you happen only with the arrival of the brainiacs in the last few yrs (poor backwards Mauritius wasn't able to stand on its two feet from 1968-2006)
Yeah Right, "après MOI le DÉLUGE"

These are Mauritian families who have been  getting the economy going since eons ( your qualification of the stone age )- whether in bad times ( when the IMF had its thumb on the govt) or in good times which according to you happen only with the arrival of the brainiacs in the last few yrs (poor backwards Mauritius wasn't able to stand on its two feet from 1968-2006)

Foreign direct investment, net inflows (BoP, current US$)

2005 $41,777,000.00
2006 $106,758,100.00
2007 $340,763,800.00
2008 $377,724,700.00
2009 $256,680,700.00
2010 $429,958,000.00
2011 $273,392,300.00

But we're getting more and more offtopic anyways. But to sum things up:

- The island is not that crowded."We need land for food" argument is dumb. Mauritian population is well fed. Hell, Singapore has about zero land for food and they have no problem being well fed. What Mauritians need is more jobs and more money for the most part.

- No, expats aren't the root of all your evils. "overpopulation", community issues, many of the challenges which Mauritius faces, were all here before the expats and would still be here should we go.

- Yes, the expats and foreign investors have a substantial positive impact on Mauritian economy. If you can't see the obvious then you're delusional with nationalistic pride and I'm sorry for you. Plus many qualified Mauritians go overseas to get better wages, and you have to make up for this issue somehow.

- No kicking the expats won't solve the overpopulation "problem" (which isn't really one in my view).

- Yes, kicking them will negatively impact the economy.

Cheers
JM

Sir, I will repeat...foreigners do not run the economy and the only area where foreigners are pretty much visible is the real estate sector, which is affecting the rest of the population.
I know it's a matter of pride for foreigners settled in Mauritius to brag about running the economy, but it's not!
I can give you the name of all the people and conglomerates who run the economy and 95% of these are local companies and people. These information are based on facts published annually in official business reports and what we can see in reality, not on some gossips about those who think the country will fall like a pack of cards without them.

And I think you are getting confused between foreign investment and immigration policies regarding expats.
A foreigner or a foreign organisation for the matter can well invest somewhere without moving to that country.
I will take one major example. Many businessmen, both Indian and others, invest in India through Mauritius without having to move here all due to trade agreements between the two countries. For many years, Mauritius has been the largest provider of foreign direct investment into India.
Another example is free port activities which is picking up considerably in Mauritius.

And we do not need land only for food as you mentioned, we need land for our future generations. Every citizen has the legitimate right to a property whether inland or the coast. Property prices being influenced by external factors solely based on the assumption that it's part of foreign investment is not what the average hard-working local would like to hear.

And there is no nationalistic pride here, we are just trying to instill some sense in your high opinion of yourself.
And once again, we are not asking to kick out anyone. Just trying to clear the numerous misconceptions that you are getting indulged into.

Regards

Guys, sorry but I don't like the way this thread turned to.

It definitely sounds like a "dialogue de sourds" to me (sorry I can't translate that one), and I guess we won't manage to re-concentrate on the initial topic.

- this thread is now closed -