No recourse to the law in Vietnam

As a guest here because you are a foreigner, the onus is on you to be extremely extremely cautious and watchful. NEVER ever get into any situation that will trigger ANGER on the part of the locals. This is their country and there was never a strong legal system to begin with. For us to live in peace here, tolerance and patience is the name of the game. Forget about dignity and pride, throw these into the sea! And yes, we are losers here! Period.

Wild 1, why do you need to be so hostile?

jezer82, notify the rental company of the situation. In the future, try harder to avoid trouble.

Sweetpants, good advice.

jezer82, I saw your post last night and was almost the first to reply. And my reply wasn't going to be very nice, either. But I decided to wait and see how others replied to you. It was about exactly as I expected.

Other than not spelling "lawyer" correctly, you appear to be an intelligent person. So let me reiterate what Sweetpants said... You are a foreigner here as a "guest" in a foreign country. It's a different culture. One you may not like, but you'd better get used to it of you plan on staying awhile.

We only heard your side of the story. You didn't say WHY you had a problem with parking. But I'm going to venture a guess and bet that you lost that little piece of paper you were given by the parking guy, and he wouldn't let you have your motorbike. So you took matters into your own hands, and decided to strong-arm your way out anyway. If I'm correct, you were wrong. Think about that next time.

I'm not asking you to roll over for anyone here, but you need to remember this expression: Pick your battles. I can't imagine ANY situation regarding parking a motorbike that would need to escalate to the level you describe.

And by the way, if you do lose that little piece of paper (claim ticket), all you have to do is show proper ownership of the motorbike, and they'll let you take it. If it's a rental, that means taking a taxi over to where you rented it and getting the rental owner to deal with the parking guys. You may even be able to handle it with a phone call to the owner.

saigonmonkey wrote:

Other than not spelling "lawyer" correctly, you appear to be an intelligent person. And I'm guessing, also an American.

sadly he's welsh (according to his profile)

But yep it's only one side of the story and given the police are taking the local side I'm guessing not quite as he tells it.

OP  Why did your landlord pay them $100? That figure is around the going rate for a foreigner involved in a traffic accident.

Forget your landlord, tell you who ever you rent your bike off that the police have it and let them deal with it.

laidbackfreak wrote:

sadly he's welsh (according to his profile)

Yes, I thought about that after I'd already posted. Always forget to check those profiles...

What does it matter where I come from? Are you a racist? I don't have a great deal of patience, so this is obviously not the country for me. Law as a mafia! How does that work for anyone but the police. The fact that this is the case and will remain so, says all you need to know about the country.

However, its my fault at the end of the day for staying 3 years in a country where even Filipinos say they're the stupidest people they've ever met. If you have to throw your dignity into the sea as someone said, well why stay here? This explains their 98% non return rate. They test your patience every day and if you crack once they gang up on you. No wonder you lost the war fighting alongside these.

jezer wrote:

What does it matter where I come from? Are you a racist?

OK...I take back what I said about you being intelligent.

Please go back to where you came from. Quickly. You obviously don't want to be here anyway.

Jezer,

What does it matter where I come from? Are you a racist?

Now, where did you get such an idea from?

I don't have a great deal of patience, so this is obviously not the country for me.

They have flights out of Vietnam everyday, on an hourly basis as well.  What are you waiting on?  You are really taking your sweet time, aren't you?  BTW, don't let the door hit you, on your way out.

However, its my fault at the end of the day for staying 3 years in a country where even Filipinos say they're the stupidest people they've ever met.

So, you are the type that take hearsays as facts?  Man, talk about stupidity...  3 years?  Dude, you are approaching the realm of insanity.

If you have to throw your dignity into the sea as someone said, well why stay here?

Excellent question.  Wow, finally something good, so eloquent.  But tell me, what are you still waiting on, Christmas???

They test your patience every day and if you crack once they gang up on you.

Yes, "a small leak will sink a great ship."  Share the experience with your kids.  Please classify this as a "not to do what daddy did."

No wonder you lost the war fighting alongside these.

Dude, these are some tough cookies, aren't they?  We fought against them as well...  Gee, they brought the great you to your knees.  What are you talking about???

I wonder maybe this is one reason why they not giving me parking ticket in one of parking lot near Ben Thanh market last time, since I insist to get the ticket but they not giving me because I'm foreigner, they afraid I'm losing my ticket.

Thanks for your exhaustive reply. Trolling the trolls! Love it;).
BTW 3 years cause I have a fit girlfriend.

Jezer wrote:

BTW 3 years cause I have a fit girlfriend.

You came all the way out here just for that???  It is that bad where you are from, hey?

I would go suck on an egg, if I were you...

You must use your Pro consule from your embassy unless your American and your Embassy possibly wont do sh*t!

tom duffy wrote:

You must use your Pro consule from your embassy unless your American and your Embassy possibly wont do shit!

Tom your English... try using them here and they won't do sh!t either

I have had numerous confrontations with the parking mafia, some are just total grubs, some you can actually talk to. For some reason on expat sites people seem to jump all over someone when they have been in a confrontation, its a bit hard to know what really happens, so saying that someone caused it shows a real lack of intelligence.

I had an issue at the markets in D4 about 5 years ago. Being very few round eyes living in the area, when I came out of the market they went and got my bike when they saw me exit the markets. I didnt have to provide the ticket, they knew which bike to get. When it came to giving them the ticket, it had become very smudge due to being in my top pocket on a very hot summers day.Thats when they started their typical crap, we call police, tried to take the keys out of the ignition and so on. My secretary was with me and I told her we can show them my license and bike blue card, after doing this they were then trying to pull me off the bike. Thats was enough and I made sure they knew I was pissed off. So it can be a problem with these guys,and it doesnt mean that the bike owner has started any trouble, just guys trying to show some authority that is really insignificant.

Colinoscapee,

So there are actually 2 of you?  Man, I take my motorbike in and out of lots all over Vietnam.  Sometimes with tickets, and sometimes without (because I had misplaced them).  NEVER had I had any problem anywhere, in Vietnam!  A lot of times, the key was more than enough for the attendants, including ones with laminated tickets.  The worst case was when I had to pay 10 thousand Dongs for my lost ticket.  But, the guy deserved it because the ticket was made of hard plastic or fiberglass.

Anyhow, people don't assume that guys like me lack intelligence?  But, they do often think the world about fellas who have issues claiming their own properties, though???

The only problem I've ever had was in a Coop Mart parking lot. It was a windy day and when i pulled the key out my pocket it flew away. They didn't get angry or raise their voice but they did take all the information off my ID card with my address and phone number. I guess to be able to find me if i was trying to steal the motorbike.
But since i was quiet and trying to comply with them they never had to raise their voice.

It seems from reading a lot of your posts Wild 1 your just a step above everyone else. I like to see you leave  a place such as ANZ bank without a ticket or card.

Geee!!!  You are still on it???

Man.  All you have to do is tell the guy you lost it.  The worst that he can do is make you pay for the lost ticket.  This applies to any guy, at any place.

Now, we each have our own ways of telling others that we made a mistake; and we all have our own ways of claiming ownership of something.  So, the end results vary.  But so far, my ways have worked like a charm.

Perhaps, that is because I am notorious for loosing the little things, like parking tickets and cigarette lighters.  Thus, I have the leeway?  Come to think of it, that does make me a lot better than those who struggle in holding on to their own properties, doesn't it???

I am at a loss as to what this poster Wild1 is on about. Seems to be broken fractured English, that takes a 180 degree turn to a place unknown by most who can detect  a two syllable word.

colinoscapee wrote:

broken fractured English,

Is that not redundant and thus "broken fractured" also?

Parmyd wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

broken fractured English,

Is that not redundant and thus "broken fractured" also?

Maybe it's a compound fracture

Compound fracture of the senses

What an interesting thread! I feel for the guy who got beaten up and sometimes you wish these things don't happen. It's not nice especially when it happens to you. Tough luck mate.

Treat people the way you want to be treated. Talk to people the way you want to be talked to. Respect is earned not given.

Lephuc,

You tell them, especially that Ashard guy!!!    He has very little respect. 

It's all a mystery to me why some people get into so much grief in VN.
Think it REALLY must be an attitude thing.
I've ALWAYS found the people of Sai Gon to be extremely friendly, polite and helpful. Must be YOU that is the problem !
I had my own bike, all brought and paid for 100% legally, same for my VN driving license. Spent a year riding through and around most all of Sai Gon nearly every day.
Always smiled politely at the Cong An, parking people, treat they politely and always got the same in return.
Only trouble I ever had was trying to park it at Cho Ben Thanh because of the size of the bike. All the parking people kept telling me - " NO !" Found out later they thought they might have to pay extra to the local Cong An for taking up too much parking space.
Never got stopped by the Cong An - never got into any sort of argument with any of the locals.
It's THEIR country - not yours. You're just a visitor so be polite and show the respect to those who's country you are in.
If you don't like it, or the way things are done - feel free to leave - as quickly as possible.
You want any help packing ??? Or calling for a taxi ???

Why is everyone assuming the original poster screwed up? what about positive intent? FLIP I am polite too but i was at the customs building last week to pick up a postal package. The security were unnecessarily rude to me after initially asking me to go up the third floor then started screaming at me asking why i was going up!?  these things happen and i have no problem with it but the holier than thou attitude and leave if you don't like it comments are uncalled for.

It's laughable you're offering him to pack up when all he is asking for is advise.

katiepd2011 wrote:

OMG...they've made up a story ( not true), if you just give them more money they can come back and want more...you need to hire a lawer, but now in HCMC,lawyer's price can be expensive...

  Tell you what - contact my 'BETTER HALF'. She's 100% VN and VERY proud of it.
Persuaded her to go back to uni and study to qualify as a lawyer this time, adding to her business and accounting degrees and credentials.
As a typically very proud, very intelligent, well educated young VN lady,(and VERY BEAUTIFUL:D) I'm quite sure that she could help you out.
Help you out of her county that is !

Wild_1 wrote:

Jezer wrote:

BTW 3 years cause I have a fit girlfriend.

You came all the way out here just for that???  It is that bad where you are from, hey?

I would go suck on an egg, if I were you...

DAMNED RIGHT Howie !

Flip465 wrote:

As a typically very proud, very intelligent, well educated young VN lady,(and VERY BEAUTIFUL:D) I'm quite sure that she could help you out.
Help you out of her county that is !

If she is even half as smart as you say then she is well aware of the issues facing expats (and even Vietnamese citizens ) in Vietnam. I have never had any problems with anyone in VN but I have seen the way the security guys can act towards anyone regardless of their nationality. You don't usually see the locals get into arguments so much because they are used to it. Westerners on the other hand do not like to put up with that attitude.
The problem is the same anywhere you go in the world, you put a uniform on a guy and give him a stick to hang from his belt he will get a big head and an attitude.
My wife is always complaining about the security guys at her work.

Well said "The Don"

VungTauDon: Agree with you a hundred percent. These security guys got no other skills to sell, so they end up being such. So, in order to bolster their ego, they must show that they are SOME ONE to reckon with. Play up to them give them a good TEt red packet and they will remember you. Trouble is these guards keep changing all the time.

Flip465 : would like to follow up on things legal here in Vietnam. Since the system is still so weak and disorganized, say, if you have a business contract with a local firm, and put it as the Laws of Vietnam apply, and someone breaches, how is the legal standing? Sue in court, ? Prejudiced? Always the local party win; just as in Commie China?? Experiences to share?
(One Univ student in Law said that after she graduates, she wants to be a Policeman!, how's that logical?)
Lots more to be done in the Legal framework??

Sploke77,

That is why I always chuckle when someone wants "to find a good attorney" here.  I told someone earlier on here, "Ho Chi Minh (the man on all Vietnameses bills) is its best attorney."  He has and will get a lot of cases solved!  Logic here is, the police is the law.  You fight back at your own peril.  It is why Budman and Anatta are trying very hard, to become policeman and policewoman.

Ha ha ha . Does it mean we cannot be faulted if you hear someone say 'I am studying to be a lawyer' in a University here and  wonder how he/she will practise 'law', the way we understand it in the Western and advanced economies upon graduation? Then why waste money? No logic in that!! At every chance, try to befriend every policeman you meet, a better way to kill time..and surely build  a more powerful and useful network of contacts.. LOL..

I think the right approach is to combine both using a good lawyer and through connection, especially for important cases.

If relying exclusively on connection, you risk paying a lot of money for nothing.

If you are right and the matter involved is not that important then stand your ground. You may suffer delay and inconvenience, but they cannot refuse you once they see you know the law.

One of the reasons for blatant corruption in this country is the willingness of common people to use the back door method, so try your best not to feed the monster. You can't have it both ways.

Anatta wrote:

One of the reasons for blatant corruption in this country is the willingness of common people to use the back door method, so try your best not to feed the monster. You can't have it both ways.

This not only applies to the legal system but to all areas even education. My 14 year old niece had to go to her teachers house this last weekend to get extra tutoring for her class. I know my niece very well and know she is very smart and i was surprised she would need extra tutoring. My wife said that it is normal for teachers to withhold test of homework from the students and the only way to pass is to pay the teacher for special tutoring.

VungTauDon

Well known areas where it is expected that you bribe: education, health, housing permit, traffic police,.. In other words, everywhere the government is involved.

Here are more things you have not mentioned in education:

Teachers expect children (even suggest out loud what presents they expect (perfume, electronics,..)) to give them gifts at special occasion (teacher's day, New Year,..)

Schools expect parents to contribute to buy school's equipment (TV, PC, English teachers,..)

Parents wanting to have (small) children in certain schools need to pay bribe to school officials (thousands of dollars have been mentioned).

I can go on and on.

Sploke77 wrote:

Flip465 : would like to follow up on things legal here in Vietnam. Since the system is still so weak and disorganized, say, if you have a business contract with a local firm, and put it as the Laws of Vietnam apply, and someone breaches, how is the legal standing? Sue in court, ? Prejudiced? Always the local party win; just as in Commie China?? Experiences to share?
(One Univ student in Law said that after she graduates, she wants to be a Policeman!, how's that logical?)
Lots more to be done in the Legal framework??

Having just been 'enlightened' - she means business law only, contracts and the likes.
Wants nothing what so ever to do with the 'criminal laws' at all.
SORRY - my bad !