Difficult to integrate

Hello Kay.

Welcome to Expat.com!

A new thread has been created from your message on the Poland forum.

You didn't make any friend since you moved?

Thank you,
Aurélie

Hi Kayraji,
Don't worry, it's generally hard to meet people and find friends in Poland.

Am also considering come to poland later in d year, how is life over there. Am a muslim also, how about black people over there. I will very glad if you give me d true in depth of it thanks.. my email address abusium@gmail.com

I am a married man with child, moved into poland for 1 month now ,I am trying to make friends here. the boredom is killing me i am from Africa, Nigeria anyone living around can send me a message.i presently live in krakow, i am an easy going mate and have a very good humor.

Hi guys!
Hmm... From my experience I can say only that that Poles are rather hommogene nation. They are not xenophobes or sth like that, but in my oppionion it's sometimes very diffcult to brake the cultural barrier, esspecialy between people Muslims/people from black Africa.
Poles are very open to foreigners, but mostly to those from the same cultural circle...
I do believe that might be the problem with finding friends here.

cerf-volant you are right, i have been here for 2 months and quiet frankly i think poles are very accommodating and nice people. Tho making friends is a little difficult for me i would say the language barrier, I have been to clubs around krakow and had opportunity to drink to few guys who spoke fluent english. by the way do you stay in krakow ? are you polish ?

I agree that Polish people are friendly. But still it is not enough for us not to feel lonely. I understand. they do not need us' and they do not prefer to speak English So it looks like we should help each other and be friend..

Yes, I'm Pole and from Krakow

(cerf-volant )Oh i see, last time we talked you said you were on holiday, if i am not wrong are you back or still enjoying your vacation ?

I have just arrived and I try to face a day at work... it hurts so much after such wonderful time during vacations...

hahahaha trust me i understand how it feels to have a very nice time and then come back, trying to fit into the boring life of working   you will be fine, probably after a week.

Well.... i got a friend.. she is black as well and she tells me everyday how had it was to live here.... Polish people are not really open minded if you are different... its the same if you are muslim, gay or simply different....

True say, atimes but i don't think its that difficult living or integrating in krakow, probably other cities, been to wroclaw and to be honest didn't like it

nongy wrote:

I am a married man with child, moved into poland for 1 month now ,I am trying to make friends here. the boredom is killing me i am from Africa, Nigeria anyone living around can send me a message.i presently live in krakow, i am an easy going mate and have a very good humor.

Hey nongy.

My husband (English) and I (Polish) also moved to Krakow recently (5 months ago). We would be very happy to meet you and your family. I can imagine how difficult it is if non of you speak Polish. We do not have problems with friends but always welcome to meet new people.

Greetings,
Marzenna&Steve

Hello Marzenna,

Happy to receive a message from you, and glad to know that you and your husband haven't got much problems with friends since moving to krakow. My post was in September and trust me there has been tremendous change , as i now have a little understanding of polish language, however, we would be very happy to meet your Husband and you. 

By the way, we live in krakow, do you guys live in krakow as well ?

Greetings,
Martins

A lot of your problems in fitting in and making friends will vanish the more you learn the language, so don't worry too much.

The most difficult barrier for expats and the single most cited reason for failure to adapt to life in a host country is the LANGUAGE BARRIER. Fully one third of all expats who fail to adapt to their new surroundings and return home state that the major reason was the language barrier.

When moving to a non-English speaking nation it is a highly unrealistic expectation that we're going to be able to succeed in making the transition without a good grasp of the local language. Really now, our language isn't even the most widely spoken language on earth it's only number 2 and losing ground with each passing day.

Mandarin Chinese is the most widely spoken, yet we don't see them moving off to the four corners of the globe expecting everybody to suddenly start speaking Mandarin to them, now do we???

So why then do we English speakers insist on trying to force our language onto them instead of learning theirs, isn't this something that WE would consider extremely arrogant and offensive if they were to immigrate to our homelands with the same kind of attitude? Sure we would!

Nothing, but nothing helps you adapt to your new home as much as learning the language spoken there. You suddenly find yourself able to make friends, because you're now no longer limited to finding them in the expat community. You are able to function much more effectively in your day-to-day life, because you don't need somebody to translate for you. You often find that you're going to get better prices for things you buy, you're no longer seen as an outsider or easy mark with lots of money. You will also have one benefit that most expats NEVER stop to consider when you've learned the local language...

You will have the security of knowing that in an emergency situation, especially a medical emergency that YOU are going to be able to communicate with medical professionals and this is something that may potentially save your life one day. Just think about it, you get into a car wreck and are seriously injured, but conscious and when you get to the hospital needing assistance urgently you can't find ANYBODY there who speaks both languages sufficiently to intercede for you. YIKES if that isn't enough to fill up the classrooms in local language schools I don't know what is.

Trust me, I'm speaking from personal experience on this point. I came to Brazil from Canada thirteen years ago. My adaptation has been a complete success because I learned the local language (Portuguese) to a decent level of fluency before I arrived. It has improved to the point over the years here that I now do complex translations, teach the language to other English speakers and have no communications problems of any kind in my day-to-day life or work.

Cheers,
James       Expat-blog Experts Team

Hi Martins.
I am glad to see that the life here is becoming easier. We did not have problems with friends here as I already had some from time we lived in England and one couple, we met also there during their year in England after which they returned to Krakow.
We did not make many new but it is as my friends were very caring and we were very often invited to various birthdays, dinners and other occasions.
My husband (Steve) is learning Polish but it is a long and difficult task. I know that pain myself as I learn German and English while being in these countries. Polish is also a language of only one country therefore I have a huge respect for everyone who take the effort.
I also understands the religion problems (if you are any other religion then Catholic). It is true what some people are saying. It is a homogeneous nation.  Even if I love my friends here, we have to avoid that topic as we both are Atheists and in many counties (not only in Poland) that is worst then the devil himself...haha. But we are managing that difference. We just have other stuff to talk about. Religion is for us a very private thing. We are not converting them and they stopped (after a while though...lol) showing us the most beautiful churches in Krakow.

We like music and go very often to Harris Piano Bar, we go out to eat or if we want to listen to pop music, we are also going to Stalowe Magnolie. Steve also likes to play tennis. Sometimes we are going to Sport bar to watch football. Any of that activities are meeting your both interests? Steve is working in IT and like programming. I am a landscape architect but I do not work at the moment, we are buying a flat that will be not finished (developer stage) and I am working on this project.
It would be lovely to meet new people. What do you both like to do after work?
Yes, we live in Krakow but December is an extreme month for us as Steve will be in Krakow only 2 days! He is travelling for work.

Write something about you both and what you both are interested in, lets keep in contact and meet in January. And maybe more expats living in Krakow would like to go out. It would be great to see all the different people, who decided to live in this (in my view) great city.

Dear Marzenna,
I strongly disagree that being an atheist in Poland is worse than the devil himself. Most Polish people were baptised in the Catholic Church, true, but a huge majority of them are practical atheists. Many Polish couples live together without being married and use contraception - both are strictly forbidden in the Catholic Church. Sunday Church attendance is less than 30%. In Ireland it is 70% in some places and surely more than 50% nationwide.

Moreover, it is considered very trendy to reject the teaching of the Catholic Church. Many people will laugh at you if you admit you watch Catholic TV or listen to Catholic radio. People who follow the Catholic rules are often ironically called "mohair berets".

>we have to avoid that topic
I many communities there are topics you are supposed to avoid. Let me mention "the Troubles" in Northern Ireland (in some parts of Belfast it might be dangerous to admit where you are from), the Second World War in Germany, the Smolensk catastrophe among Russians or the country named Macedonia in Greece. One Polish proverb says: W domu powieszonego nie rozmawia się o sznurze (literally: don't speak about the rope when you are in hung man's house). I believe such topics appear everywhere.

>showing us the most beautiful churches in Krakow.
The churches in Krakow are very interesting as monuments of history and architecture. They are visited by members of other religions, as well as non-believers.

Oh

Hi.
I am very happy about the fact that you do not find me as bad as a devil for being an Atheist. I do accept that people have different experiences and it is good, that people like you are out there.
I also agree with you that, if people declare to be Catholic (or belong to any other organised religion), they should stick to it. I find people, who decide to have a church wedding only because it is pretty frankly strange and disagree with that. But it is their life-decision.
When I was a girl, growing up in Poland, I was very bullied for not going to the Sunday school, but the Catholic religion is thought in state schools now so again, I would be bullied. And no, there is not much other choice.
I do not think that it is a “trend” to reject ANY religion. If you are not religious, you just that. It doesn't have anything to do with a trend. If I would notice that somebody reject ANY believe system (and there are many of these) because it is trendy....can't even comment on that as it is utterly stupid.
With my post I actual wanted to assure a foreigner, that he can live happily in Poland, despite the fact that, he came from another culture (or religion) that is the one that is dominating in Poland. You misinterpreted my intentions. I my opinion, we all Good Humans, can coexist and be friends, whatever we think about the origin of life and the existence of the afterlife.

The churches in Krakow are beautiful as I stated. However, there are showing only a Catholic culture in Poland. Krakow is more then that. Literature, theatre, jazz, modern art, classical music...and so on. And you misinterpreted that comment as well.
Anyway.
With my post, I did not want to start a debate about any religion. I just wanted to insure a (probably) non-catholic person, that our country is capable of accommodate people of various upbringing and believes and social conditions.
This is the only reason why I mentioned my very best and very Catholic friends, who do not agree with our views and still, we are great friends.
There are some people on this blog-site, who are thinking different to Catholics and I wanted to make sure that they know that we Poles accept anybody, who is just good and nice.
As I think, we are.
Greetings, Marzenna

>you misinterpreted...
I am sure many others might misunderstood your intention as well. If I didn't live in Poland myself, I would surely think Poland is a fundamentalist country where everybody who is not a Catholic is discriminated against. And I know that this is not the case.

>When I was a girl, growing up in Poland, I was very bullied for not going to the Sunday school

Did you grow up in the communist Poland, before 1989? If so, I am not surprised. At that time, not going to church was automatically interpreted as supporting the oppressive communist system.
Fortunately, you have that hard time far behind you.

>the Catholic religion is thought in state schools now so again, I would be bullied.

I think you mean "taught", not "thought". No, you would not be bullied. At the moment students can choose ethics instead of religion. Even if there's only one student willing to have ethics instead of religion, it is obligatory for the school to organise it. I personally know some students who have chosen this option and nobody bullies them at school.
Have a nice evening, Matt

But I already explained my intentions...even if not grammatically correct.

And do you notice that your tone is aggressive, while I try very hard not to be?
This is why I said what I did.

It is very true, that Poland is Catholic.
It is true, that people different to the majority have some problems to integrate. We see that from that very blog. Why would they say, that if this wasn't true?

It is also true that I try to say, that whatever your are and whatever your upbringing and original is, if you are a good person, we are welcoming you, as my very Catholic friends welcomed me.

If you are in an arguing mood about the faith, we can do that (I welcome that) on another chat room.
In my view, this blog is about integration, not separation.

Greetings, M

Dear Friend!
It surely isn't my intention to argue with anyone.
I admit it is hard - or even impossible - to fully integrate with the Polish people if you look different or belong to a religion that is unknown here. A black person looks quite natural in New York or Paris, even in Warsaw, but he will never look natural in Katowice, Tarnów or Suwałki. And that's not because the people there are intolerant, but because he will look different from others. A Muslim will surely find it hard to exist in a country where many people have heard about terrorism, but they have never spoken to a Muslim person face to face.

>It is very true, that Poland is Catholic.
No, it is not true. About 70% of Polish people do not go to any church at all. And out of the remaining 30%, not all are Catholics. This means that 70% of Polish people are non-believers, and Catholics are, in fact, in minority. They are the largest minority, true, but still minority.

If people don't go to any church (I don't), and don't like any religion (I don't) it doesn't necessarily mean they are non-believers (I AM a believer).
I live in Chorzów. Regards,
Gene

It is simply not true that 70 percent of Polish people are non-believers. The GREAT majority of Polish people, and especially native Silesian People, ARE believers, though they might not go to any church, and they might not like any religion.
Gene (and I'm a native Silesian living in Chorzów).

Hi Kay, We're also expats in Warsaw and my partner is South African -- we just moved here from Cape Town about 6 weeks ago. I'm Polish by origin so it's a bit easier since we have built-in family here, but it would be really great to meet other expats, and especially other Africans! Best wishes, Anna

Hi,

I have been in Krakow since mid June and in my experience over this month it is not so easy to meet people here specially if you come from USA were it is normal to meet people just starting conversations and that is the way to socialize. Poland has a much more traditional and conservative culture and people get to know each other from social circles- school, uni, work etc. It is difficult even for me to meet people here and I have a lot of experience traveling and living in different countries. I have already been in over 50 countries so I know a bit how to get about this. I usually talk to people in the street and introduce myself etc which is the way forward in the USA but that is not culturally accepted practice in Poland. When I did it people just shy away and found it unpleasant. People just constraint to talk to friend in simple words.

Remember that these guys have been living in a Communist regime for over 50 yrs and they are just learning European standards now.
Anyway I am happy to meet you for a drink if still interested in meeting people

Hi.
I am sorry that you find the integration so hard. I know that pain. I have been living in the UK for 15 years and left without any solid friends. Talking to people on the street was definitely out of question. Well, talking yes, but then they walk away and that is the end of relations.

Here, coming back after 25 years is the same. Difficult.

However, may I ask you, in what language are you trying to have a conversation and integrate? Can you imagine me trying to talk to people in the US or the UK in my language (which is Polish) and expect people to have an instant relation to me? I do not think that you are fair.

My husband is English, I am Polish, who came back after 25 years of emigration. The good news is, we are in Krakow and if you fancy to meet, let me know. We both know how difficult it is to integrate in any country, we are keen to help and we are keen to make new friends.

Greetings, Marzenna