Men in skirts in Hungary?

Hi! I've never seen any, but with this heat I suggest you  go for it, I can tell you as a woman, skirts are the best!

HFTarasque wrote:

Just have a simple question - are men in skirts accepted, and can they be found, in Hungary?  For bonus points, does this vary from region to region?

I saw a guy  once wearing an Indonesian style sarong in Tesco (large supermarket). Looked like a tourist surfer type dude. As for national dress, probably closest is Greece.

Melroj wrote:

Hi! I've never seen any, but with this heat I suggest you  go for it, I can tell you as a woman, skirts are the best!

No kidding.  Being from Alaska, I really have no idea how I'm going to handle 40 degree weather.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I saw a guy  once wearing an Indonesian style sarong in Tesco (large supermarket). Looked like a tourist surfer type dude. As for national dress, probably closest is Greece.

Nice!  Though he probably got some slack for being a tourist.  I'm used to Alaska, where things like that would be very heavily stigmatized, and I just hope Hungary isn't the same way.  It looks like it's actually a lot more liberal than here.  I certainly know there would never be a gay pride parade here...

HFTarasque wrote:

..Nice!  Though he probably got some slack for being a tourist.  I'm used to Alaska, where things like that would be very heavily stigmatized, and I just hope Hungary isn't the same way.  It looks like it's actually a lot more liberal than here.  I certainly know there would never be a gay pride parade here...

I once worked on a human rights project in this region and we covered a lot of different communities.

As far as I remember, LGBT rights in Hungary are not very visible although gay marriage is allowed, unlike some other countries in the region. There are gay rights organisations in Hungary. Probably the most liberal country in Europe is The Netherlands (Holland) where I also worked for quite some time although not on human rights projects.

A lot of people in this region are guided by religious, racist and outdated political thinking all of which is a block on liberal societal development. There have been attempts to have gay pride parades here in Hungary but a few times it's been blocked by the politicians without anyone really knowing why. Like so many other things here, there are many REALLY very very dumb decisions. If there's a money making tourist opportunity, they'll block it if they don't get a decent pay off (personal or otherwise), e.g. blocking Red Bull Air Race a couple of years ago (also covered in discussion in these forums).

One upside of Hungary is that it's not quite Russia style of politics.

HFTarasque wrote:

It looks like it's actually a lot more liberal than here.

It depends. Some places are like San Fransisco, others are like Kansas. Not to disparage either location in the USA, of course.

HFTarasque wrote:

I certainly know there would never be a gay pride parade here...

Of course there are:

http://2013.budapestpride.hu/

There are just some.... excuses.... from authorities that have tried to prevent some in the past.

fluffy2560 wrote:

although gay marriage is allowed

Not according to the latest version of the Hungarian Constitution available online.

However, same gender civil unions are completely legal, but with some limits (can not adopt, inherit, etc. -- i.e. meaning the civil union law allows gay couples, but not families headed by a gay couple).

fluffy2560 wrote:

If there's a money making tourist opportunity, they'll block it if they don't get a decent pay off (personal or otherwise), e.g. blocking Red Bull Air Race a couple of years ago

To defend some of the locals a bit, I think they have a good reason for not supporting many such events lately. For years the locals supported these events and were told how they would benefit. But for many, they have not. Most of the (Sponsor and EU Grant) money went to the promoter, vendors and a select few with little benefit to the majority of the local population. And not everyone wants a "Coca Cola Beach". There are some very famous events near where I live that were started by locals but were overtaken in form and control by what they call "the Budapest Crowd" (their words, not mine) and now the locals wish the event would just stop and go away.

klsallee wrote:

HFTarasque wrote:

It looks like it's actually a lot more liberal than here.

It depends. Some places are like San Fransisco, others are like Kansas. Not to disparage either location in the USA, of course.

HFTarasque wrote:

I certainly know there would never be a gay pride parade here...

Of course there are:

http://2013.budapestpride.hu/

There are just some.... excuses.... from authorities that have tried to prevent some in the past.

Do you know where Pecs is on that scale?

Sorry, by "here" I meant Alaska.

fluffy2560 wrote:

although gay marriage is allowed

klsallee wrote:

Not according to the latest version of the Hungarian Constitution available online.

However, same gender civil unions are completely legal, but with some limits (can not adopt, inherit, etc. -- i.e. meaning the civil union law allows gay couples, but not families headed by a gay couple).

Yes, civil unions is what I meant. I've been following the debates in the UK as it was a hot news topic a while back. I applied my terminology wrong. Over there in GB, following law changes recently, civil unions will become marriages and civil unions will no longer exist as far as I understand it.  I expect eventually all the EU countries to come into line with equalities legislation but it could take 10+ years (??).

I can imagine all those restrictions leading to some unintended consequences. I was wondering what happens in HU with transgendered people. If you have say two men (one of which was formerly recognised as a woman), with kids and still married to each other, does the law in HU a) recognise the woman as a man as per civil code for all purposes; b) who is the head of the household?

I expect none of that has been thought about. I saw it in debates in the UK about restrictions to be placed upon gay marriage.

There is a vocal and violent minority who might physically confront you for wearing a skirt with the moral support of almost the whole population. Liberals are few, and on their way out.

Hungarians do know about kilns though, and there's no separate word in the language, thus, "Real Men Wear Skirts":
http://egyszervolt.hu/dal/skot.html
(they keep saying "zord", means grim, stern, weatherbeaten, rugged...)

HFTarasque wrote:

Do you know where Pecs is on that scale?

A university (founded in 1367) and former mining (coal, uranium) town. Also very multicultural. In my opinion, based on infrequent visits (so the sample may be flawed), it is conservative (politically the mayor/city council is dominated by the conservative Fidesz party, same as in Parliament), but the above mentioned cultural elements shift it more toward the center than some other cities.

Also the home of Pécs Brewery company (not really relevant to the question, but I think that is important to mention ).

HFTarasque wrote:

Sorry, by "here" I meant Alaska.

Oops. I missed that. But, in Alaska too: http://alaskapride.org/march.html

fluffy2560 wrote:

I was wondering what happens in HU with transgendered people. If you have say two men (one of which was formerly recognised as a woman), with kids and still married to each other, does the law in HU a) recognise the woman as a man as per civil code for all purposes; b) who is the head of the household?

I expect none of that has been thought about. I saw it in debates in the UK about restrictions to be placed upon gay marriage.

I thought the same. And I agree, they probably did not even think about it. IMHO, there is no serious debate culture (or listening to those in the opposition) in the Hungarian Parliament. Which makes democracy in Hungary somewhat tenuous.

szocske wrote:

.....
Hungarians do know about kilns though, and there's no separate word in the language, thus, "Real Men Wear Skirts":
http://egyszervolt.hu/dal/skot.html
(they keep saying "zord", means grim, stern, weatherbeaten, rugged...)

Bit of a typo there Grasshopper, I think you meant "kilt".

I never said we could spell it, we are just aware of its existence :-)

szocske wrote:

I never said we could spell it, we are just aware of its existence :-)

Fair enough!

klsallee wrote:

.....
I thought the same. And I agree, they probably did not even think about it. IMHO, there is no serious debate culture (or listening to those in the opposition) in the Hungarian Parliament. Which makes democracy in Hungary somewhat tenuous.

Yes, previously I said it was not quite Russian style but I might be wrong.

Incidentally, I also came across another article about taxes in the USA recently in which a lesbian couple who were married (?), and one of which died, resulted in the survivor being asked to pay inheritance tax on their partner's property, which would not have been the case if they had been a hetero couple. I believe the IRS lost that case and presumably this has set a precedent.

I also believe there was a Supreme Court case recently where the US government was not entitled to deny federal benefits to same sex couples.

While it's generally not the same legal system around the world, the arguments can be equally argued in some other countries.

One might expect a raft of similarly argued cases on many fronts, human rights and otherwise, in many countries in the EU.

I've never seen any in BP, but I do believe KILTS look hot no matter where you are.  a SKIRT, on the other hand (as in, frilly, feminine and/or floral print) might not go over so well.

octobop wrote:

KILTS look hot

I certainly hope kilts would be warm**, given the rather low average temperatures found in Scotland (i.e. Glasgow: 15°C average in July/August --- I for one call that chilly for summer weather).


** Especially for True Scotsmen.

I could use a 15* chill right about now... I measured 52* on my balcony today

klsallee wrote:

....... kilts would be warm**, given the rather low average temperatures found in Scotland (i.e. Glasgow: 15°C average in July/August --- I for one call that chilly for summer weather)...

Reminds me of the old joke:

Q: What's worn under a Scotsman's kilt?
A: Nothing, it's all in very good condition.

Scotsman of old had a fearsome reputation and were a very tough lot given the weather and the terrain. So much so, that the Roman emperor Hadrian built a wall across the middle of the UK (as it is now) to keep the Scots out.

octobop wrote:

I've never seen any in BP, but I do believe KILTS look hot no matter where you are.  a SKIRT, on the other hand (as in, frilly, feminine and/or floral print) might not go over so well.

Yeah, just to be clear, I'm not talking about cross-dressing or drag by any means.  For example, I have a kilt, a few sarongs (Indonesian style), I will be making a djellabah, and I also own a few kilt-like skirts (most of them are tartan and pleated, just longer).  Nothing feminine at all except for one that has a floral print, and I don't really care for that one much anyway.  One issue that may come up, however, is that most of my skirts are quite thick, usually wool.  After all, Alaska is a rather cold place.

In terms of Red Bull race: it is not only Budapest issue, the whole event has been cancelled for the last two or three years globally. It looks to be restarted coming year if the permissions are getting ahead.

In terms of actual legal situation referring to LBGT rights: Hungary is actually 9th in Europe, ahead of countries like Germany, Austria, Finland, Italy, Switzerland, ALL other ex-communist countries according to the fact based study by ILGA-Europe (International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association).

http://www.ilga-europe.org/home/publica … bow_europe

Having extensive amount of gay friends around europe, most of them feel at least as secure - if not more - here than e.g. in France (which has sadly huge increase of homophobic incidents).

There has been sad incidents especially with pride parade, however, this are not unfortunately unique to Hungary, there has been random attacks even in Scandinavia. This year Chicago pride had several anti-gay attacks and New York suffers homophia as well: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013 … york-city.

I would not say Hungary to be place that is encouraging like some parts of Sydney or SF for gay behaviour but by and large it is accepted. Meeting idiots is unfortunately possible anywhere, including Hungary. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05 … 90689.html

Maybe downtown Budapest. Don't try this in working class areas or in rural Hungary.