Anyone here a member of 'Up in Arms' ?

If you are so interested and clearly have doubts - then why not join ask the questions and then leave?????

toonarmy9752 wrote:

If you are so interested and clearly have doubts - then why not join ask the questions and then leave?????

An obvious question but I choose not to.

that being the case then dont expect an answer!!!!

I was, but was kicked out  - they don't like people who point out that they over-exaggerate the issue by implying all foreigners are treated one way, and all locals preferentially. I back their case, but not their tactics.

georgeingozo wrote:

I was, but was kicked out  - they don't like people who point out that they over-exaggerate the issue by implying all foreigners are treated one way, and all locals preferentially. I back their case, but not their tactics.

That's exactly the sense I have, hence not wanting to associate with them, yet, find out more.

I also felt many in the group really didn't like living in Malta and came across as a group of whinging poms (most appeared to be British) , and I couldn't understand why they kept living here - maybe the group has changed in the last few months.

Just received this via GozoNews:

With respect Mr Cundy can I ask you to contact the Up in Arms Action Group at armsclassaction@gmail.com where one of the team will endeavor to answer your questions in full by Tuesday morning. I personally know of 4 and 3 more who have contacted us since this editorial but as of yet haven’t had a chance to verify.

I have emailed them.

i think your opinion (of which you are entitled) of those members may be tainted GnG....... certainly the members i know from their listings arent whinging poms at all. They have every right to live here and have a right challenge things no matter where they are in the EU - the one thing that stands out is that they are not prepared to have the p taken out of them any longer.

So in your words - GnG you should only live here if you accept everything that happens and tow the party line.....

toonarmy9752 wrote:

So in your words - GnG you should only live here if you accept everything that happens and tow the party line.....

Not at all. They have every right to live here, and be treated according to the law.

However, some of the comments on the group suggested that many were unhappy with living in Malta, and would remain so even if an EID appeared by post tomorrow. I don't mean "if you dont like it feck off", I mean if they really find so much about Malta that you dislike, why not find somewhere better for their own sake. This is how Malta is, if it wasn't the EID it would be something else, and then the next thing, and so on. Malta isn't suited to all, and I suspect many on that group made a mistake moving here, and will never be truly happy.

agree that its not for everyone - for me its still "the good outweighs the bad" and when that balance reverses i will definitely leave

My email to the originators of the article:

Hi, I have been following this with interest via GozoNews and Patricia Graham has kindly suggested that |I contact the group by this method to ask the questions;
Can anyone state how many times this has happened?
Can anyone cite specific examples?
Thank you,

The response (reproduced in relevant part only)

Thank you for contacting the "Up in Arms" action group.
Regarding the "school enrollment issue" we are currently investigating how many children this affects.  The immediate unconfirmed report is that due to procedure changes within the Department of Education  children not in receipt of the e-residency card will be asked to produce one and that the extended 'A' ID card is not being accepted as a means to enroll children at school.  It has however been verified in two instances to date, (two verified- six unverified)  that children already enrolled and attending school have been asked to produce this card in order for them to remain in school. 
Please bear with us whilst we take the time to verify with the Department of Education exactly what the procedures are, which should be done by tomorrow, and if there are any temporary solutions to this issue.

My reply to that:
Thank you Patricia for such a swift response and the reason I was asking the questions is that the article suggests that this is a major issue and whilst I agree it is for those affected, in the ‘grand scheme of things’ it appears that there are only a very few instances.
Now I  know on matters of principle, one instance is enough, however do you not think perhaps that the released article was a little premature and could be quite startling to some?
Lynn and I have no issues in this respect and our connections with Malta for me go back 40 years and for Lynn, since her birth at Mtarfa, though she is British.
We sometimes feel that the EU connection is sometimes ill used when dealing with Malta’s bureaucracy and an understanding of the Maltese psyche may help towards better understanding and lead to better solutions.
After all, it’s not that much different to British bureaucracy, especially when dealing with public departments, particularly when disadvantaged.
Anyway, I prattle, so thanks again,
Regards,

Re: The documents required of Maltese children to attend Government schools in contrast to those required of non-Maltese EU / EEA / Swiss children to attend Government schools:

1) Documents required of non-Maltese EU / EEA / Swiss children to attend Government schools:

Applicants are to attach with this application the following documentation.

Original and photocopy of e-Residence permit (sic) issued by the Department for Citizenship and Expatriate Affairs;

Original and photocopy of child’s birth certificate, if child is not born in Malta;

Original and photocopy of translation of the birth certificate, if it is not in English;

Original and photocopy of passports / ID cards of child/ren and parents;

Original and photocopy of proof of residence in Malta;

Original and photocopy of marriage certificate;

Original and photocopy of a legal document denoting who has the care and custody of the child, if the child is not accompanied by both parents;

Qormi Polyclinic Screening Certificate;

Any other documents that deem necessary.

Both  parents  have  to  call  at  the Ministry  for  Education  and  Employment  in order to submit the application.

Source: The Ministry for Education and Employment:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q9nv9dlq38soh … EMENTS.pdf

2) Documents required of Maltese children to attend Government schools.

a) One of the Parents' Id Card or Legal Guardian's Id Card

b) Most recent Water & Electricity Bill as Proof of Residence

Source: The Ministry for Education and Employment:

https://www.education.gov.mt/mediacente … ration.pdf

Byron49 wrote:

Re: The documents required of Maltese children to attend Government schools in contrast to those required of non-Maltese EU / EEA / Swiss children to attend Government schools:

1) Documents required of non-Maltese EU / EEA / Swiss children to attend Government schools:

Applicants are to attach with this application the following documentation.

Original and photocopy of e-Residence permit (sic) issued by the Department for Citizenship and Expatriate Affairs;

Original and photocopy of child’s birth certificate, if child is not born in Malta;

Original and photocopy of translation of the birth certificate, if it is not in English;

Original and photocopy of passports / ID cards of child/ren and parents;

Original and photocopy of proof of residence in Malta;

Original and photocopy of marriage certificate;

Original and photocopy of a legal document denoting who has the care and custody of the child, if the child is not accompanied by both parents;

Qormi Polyclinic Screening Certificate;

Any other documents that deem necessary.

Both  parents  have  to  call  at  the Ministry  for  Education  and  Employment  in order to submit the application.

Source: The Ministry for Education and Employment:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q9nv9dlq38soh … EMENTS.pdf

2) Documents required of Maltese children to attend Government schools.

a) One of the Parents' Id Card or Legal Guardian's Id Card

b) Most recent Water & Electricity Bill as Proof of Residence

Source: The Ministry for Education and Employment:

https://www.education.gov.mt/mediacente … ration.pdf

So if you are Maltese there is less documentation than if you are a foreigner.
I personally  don't see why that is wrong?

Terry

I think Terry, because as Byron has pointed out. If you are a permenant resident, the you should be treated the same as the Maltese, so, provide the same paperwork.
The health check, although pointless for people coming from an EU country (Maltese rules say that,) I am thinking that all should do it now with the increase of immigrants.
The legal document for custody I agree with also. But otherwise, all the rest is unfair.

i think the clue is in the word foreigner and not european as we all are within the EU. I personally hate the word foreigner - i liken it the "N" word... and feel it alienates many. But then this is Malta and we will always be treated that way..if you allow it. I dont accept the word foreigner at all......i have even pointed this out to our local councillors (now mayor and asst) at their meetings too...... but i doubt they take nay notice

The only difference I see is that the Maltese chid will already be on the books as far as the government is concerned.
For a non Maltese child the government needs to know (and its up to the parent or guardian to prove)  that they are entitled to a free education, is that really wrong?.
It happens in all EU countries, its just the level of proof that varies.

tearnet wrote:

The only difference I see is that the Maltese chid will already be on the books as far as the government is concerned.
For a non Maltese child the government needs to know (and its up to the parent or guardian to prove)  that they are entitled to a free education, is that really wrong?.
It happens in all EU countries, its just the level of proof that varies.

??????
e-Residency/residency certificate= proof of residency
Mariage certificate, Why?
Birth certificates, Why?
Passports, why?
This is all given for residency, why does the school need it for foriegners? Why not the Maltese...That makes no sence...What is the point of a e-residency/resident certificate??

Anyway, as already pointed out, this is Malta. It's unfair, rasist and nothing will change soon!

coxf0001 wrote:

tearnet wrote:

The only difference I see is that the Maltese chid will already be on the books as far as the government is concerned.
For a non Maltese child the government needs to know (and its up to the parent or guardian to prove)  that they are entitled to a free education, is that really wrong?.
It happens in all EU countries, its just the level of proof that varies.

??????
e-Residency/residency certificate= proof of residency
Mariage certificate, Why?
Birth certificates, Why?
Passports, why?
This is all given for residency, why does the school need it for foriegners? Why not the Maltese...That makes no sence...What is the point of a e-residency/resident certificate??

Anyway, as already pointed out, this is Malta. It's unfair, rasist and nothing will change soon!

Don't need marriage certs or birth certs for residency.
Not according to their own notes on the Form.
Passport, proof of means and health cover only.

Does it really say on your EID that you have a child /children?
How would you stop an EID holder passing off a non EID card holders children as being entitled to free education without some kind of check?

Yes, thinking about it, I only needed marriage certificate as my passport is in my maiden name.
What does a birth certificate prove?
What does a marriage certificate prove about a non Maltese but not for a Maltese?
What does a passport prove that a e-residency card doesn't?

tearnet wrote:

Does it really say on your EID that you have a child /children?
How would you stop an EID holder passing off a non EID card holders children as being entitled to free education without some kind of check?

Don't the children have their own then? If that's not the case, then it has to go by the parents, then I can see why they need their passports but then the report says, that children were not allowed to school as THEY did not have e-residency??

Hi Caroline,

children have their own e-residence card. I've seen one.

Cheers
Ricky

Hi Ricky,

I did think so!

So really, concidering the paperwork needed for e-residency, then really, that should be enough evidence of who they are, that they were born, their age, their entitlement to free schooling?

Caroline

Hi Caroline,

children with a new e-residence card are entitled to free schooling .

I don't think that was the problem but with those children without the e-residence card (old ID card only). Or am I seeing something wrong?

Cheers
Ricky

Hi Ricky

Yes, you're right. It morphed to the fact that for non Maltese, then having the e-residency isn't enough for them to register. Compared to the Maltese, they still have to produce birth certificates, passports, parents marriage certificates...All of which do not make sense. Either e-residency is proof of ID/nationality and proof of residency or not?!

Caroline

Expat anger as schools won’t accept old ID card - The Times of Malta, Monday, 2nd September, 2013:

With children returning to school in a couple of weeks, European expatriates are facing a hurdle as schools refuse to accept their regular ID card as proof of residency.

Linzi Adair, from England, has been living in Malta for two years with her husband and two children and possesses an ID card issued to residents.

Her daughter already attends the Pembroke primary school but when Ms Adair, 37, decided to enrol her five-year-old son in the same school, she was made to “jump through hoops”.

Two months ago Ms Adair was asked for a list of documents including her passport, house letting agreement, work contract, utility bills and the new electronic residence card to enrol her son.

The Department for Citizenship and Expatriate Affairs is replacing ID cards for non-Maltese nationals with e-residence cards, a process that has been marred by chaos and delays to the exasperation of expats.

But Ms Adair is still waiting for an appointment to start the process of issuing the new card, after e-mailing the department in January.

Earlier this year, the department announced that the validity of the regular ID cards of foreign nationals had been extended until the end of November of this year.

So when Ms Adair pointed this out, the school accepted her regular ID card.

However, six weeks later she was told that the procedure had changed and she needed to pick the documents back up from the school and take them to the Education Department – which refused to accept her ID card.

She was informed she would have to pay for her son’s education if both she and her husband had not received the temporary receipts of their e-residence cards pending their issue.

Speaking to this newspaper, she questioned the legality of this procedure, as the regular ID cards were accepted for Maltese applicants.

The Your Europe website, run by the Communication department of the European Commission, states that as EU citizens, children are entitled to attend school in any EU country under the same conditions as nationals of that country.

“It’s unfair. Both my husband and I work here and pay taxes. We have health insurance. We don’t take anything off the country, and all our wages go back to the economy, so I don’t understand why everything is made so difficult here.

“Would any Maltese person be made to go through such efforts and extremes if they lived in England? I don’t think so,” she said.

The Up in Arms action group, the voice of expatriates fighting against what they say are discriminatory higher utility bills and bus fares, among others, is also questioning the legality of the new e-residence card, urging EU citizens not to pay fees to State schools.

Some parents have commented on Facebook that they were only informed that the procedures had changed last week.

Last week, Alternattiva Demo-kratika said it was unacceptable that public schools were not accepting enrolment of expatriate children if their parents did not have the e-residence card.

Asked why regular ID cards of foreign nationals valid until November were not being accepted, the reply from an Education Ministry spokesman was that the Directorate for Education Services found that ID cards only were not enough as proof of residence. It was very easy to get an ID card on an address, so all applicants needed further proof of residence.

The newspaper also asked what would happen to children whose parents do not manage to obtain the e-residence card, and was told the directorate will do “its utmost” to ensure all applicants are accepted as long as all documents were presented.

“We need to ensure that all parents present necessary documents to show that they are the legal guardians and that they have right of residence.”

Source: http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi … ard.484469

The ‘e-Residence Card / New identity card shambles features prominently among the hundreds of ‘Reasons for signing’ which are appended to this petition – “EU Commission: Stop the discrimination of EU Nationals in Malta”:

https://www.change.org/petitions/eu-com … s-in-malta

Hi Caroline,

didn't you say that your children don't have either the old or the new residence certificate?

The Maltese children have produced their ID cards,birth certificates and parents marriage certificate ( if they are married) in the past. Maltese children born in Malta are residents and get a Maltese ID card. That is something different.

In Germany children born in Germany and have at least one parent being German are entitled to a German ID card which foreigners cannot apply for. That is kind of normal and within the power of any sovereign state to decide on , even in the EU. The German and the Maltese ID card can be used for travel within the EU and even to some other countries (at least if it hasn't expired -))

Cheers
Ricky

Hi Ricky,

Maltese children don't get ID cards until they are 14. They are issued with an ID number based on their birth certificate, both my children born here have ID numbers, exactly the same as the Maltese children.

The Maltese are not asked for a wedding certificate when registering their children for school. I don't understand why why anyone needs to prove that the parents are married and why that makes a diffence to them being allowed to start school. That's my main argument. As how do the schoold know if the Maltese parents are married? I was married here, have a Maltese wedding certificate, going on that principle, I don't need to show it either?

Yes Ricky, my kids don't have a residency certificate but according to the Times article above, it says that the parents needed to provide it, not the children.

Caroline

Hi Caroline,

do your children have an 'A' ID card number or a 'M' card number?

The Times article only addresses the pending application and receipt by parents and not the question whether children are on the application too.

Normally parents apply for themselves and for the children. That was under the old system of residence certificates and is the same under the new system of e-residence.

I realize that things are badly wrong and difficult in your specific case and hope you can work things out.

Maltese children do get ID cards if they are under 14 and need to travel with their parents. Maltese 'M' ID cards are also travel documents .

Cheers
Ricky

Hi Ricky,

They are an 'L' ID number...I have been told 2 theories to this...

1.) L meant duel, which is wrong, as they're not.
2.) By the censis people (not the last one but the one before.) That it was meant to ALL children that were born since 2000?

Caroline

L means born in Malta after a certain date