love

There is a quote I once read, on facebook, so of dubious veracity and I won't grace it with a source.

"I don't respect any laws except those that make people happier and old people warmer in winter."

I kind of feel that way about this thread, we should respect others views, but not take them on, or to heart except where they chime with our own.

We're all old enough to have formed our own opinions by now.

Oh, and BTW Hailey was chipping in a few days ago, suspect she got bored of the man biased banter

And if any of you still have the energy for some light reading

An anarchist analysis of Privilege theory

I found this one interesting

I hope the link works

“Oh, and BTW Hailey was chipping in a few days ago, suspect she got bored of the man biased banter.”

Or, she very possibly (like our Indonesian women contingency) saw this coming:

“…but I forgive women of being boring: I let them talk, I more or less listen to them, I speak a little may be... and I sniff, and there’s that sense of care, that wanting for being good, the chance for me to feel a better dog.”

Ubudian wrote:

“Oh, and BTW Hailey was chipping in a few days ago, suspect she got bored of the man biased banter.”

Or, she very possibly (like our Indonesian women contingency) saw this coming:

“…but I forgive women of being boring: I let them talk, I more or less listen to them, I speak a little may be... and I sniff, and there’s that sense of care, that wanting for being good, the chance for me to feel a better dog.”

Ooops! Feel a bit ashamed, didn't realize it may look that way. Latins pour over too much too often, and that's a minus indeed. Anyway, I like bumping into on the street at the mall things like that. Hate when things start from words, you risk the mind to mind thing, a dog sniff scents, not chats. I start thinking about crashing the laptop on purpose, thank you.

I will never never never subscribe to anything again. Damned trap!!!

"I will never never never subscribe to anything again. Damned trap!!!"


Don't take the chat back the wrong way, it's an interesting discussion and if you don't subscribe you miss the fun.

Sadly the sniffing dog analogy doesn't translate well, then again no worries, should not be taking you literally (though it would be fun to see if that were the case)

Been following this thread, would love to add things but it feels like 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' kind of situation.

It's good to see different perspectives even if some I don't agree with, at least it reflects on how most people think in these times...

Seems like no one is reading the Anarchist Polemic, so this one is a bit easier

what Google autocomplete returns

Good morning everyone

mas fred wrote:

candyfixie wrote:

why western dudes like indonesian girls?

Because so many western girls are fat, beer swilling pig impersonators whilst the majority of Indonesian girls behave like ladies.

Any other questions?

you're right,i was heard so..
and one thing also i like to share here,a few of my friends shared that western girls do like a boss...lol

I’m afraid I have to pop and that’s because of my fault.
Yesterday Ubudian quoted a part of my post and correc'ly outlined a viable interpretation. I got really hit by my mistake and turned ashamed. I rushed to correct the thing, while too busy. Well, it was totally incomprehensible, actually I was talking alone like a madman. Then this morning the subconscious reminded me of a phrase with a smile I put elsewhere, a silly joke that may be misinterpreted. Allow me concise rectifying.

Indeed latins have the funny habit – possibly wrong – of talking loudly of their inside. In between them, they sense what is pouring over, what is faking, what is showing off, but people of other cultures are clueless and so the habit should be suppressed in an international setting. I did not. It seems we forget many things we learned, once we are in virtual places. What's more, the lack of a face teases the hidden personalities, that come, mix and mess.

I think we do not need one third of the Kamasutra but partner selection, the thing must start instantly as mutual impression and one may take notice of quality and intensity (most women do that – then they may add and complicate with the stubbornness of a batik designer).  Sex entertains and finally extracts you from this world for a very short while, but cuddling may dissolve the world for a decent time span, I can’t see why to ignore that. Relations based on intellectual affinity need a big load of luck to get full and smooth, a stick this dog fears.

Cleared the matter of scents,dogs and streets, I beg your pardon for having taken a bit of your time because of my own and self-made problem. I see here posts and got no notices by mail, the angel of the administrators probably heard my prayer.

“Relations based on intellectual affinity need a big load of luck to get full and smooth, a stick this dog fears.”

While having no interest in getting personal with you Girogio, this comment is in direct opposition to your comment posted earlier,

“…but I forgive women of being boring: I let them talk, I more or less listen to them, I speak a little may be... and I sniff, and there’s that sense of care, that wanting for being good, the chance for me to feel a better dog.”

I’m sorry, but this is no excuse… “Latins pour over too much too often, and that's a minus indeed.” 

While you might think that your clever machinations and distortions of the English language may have earned you some sort of purposeful deceit as to who you are, and where you’re coming from, I can only assure you most definitively that these games have not passed me by.

“The truth will out” and it always does.  It’s only a matter of recognizing the truth when it’s exposed. 

There are no traps here, aside of course from those which one might well find themselves caught in a “Freudian moment” or worse yet, a comment born of abject arrogance, inbred and  inherent racistism, bigotry, and a “happy dog” feeling of fooling others.  But those instances are self inflicted.  And yes indeed, for those who safe harbor these evils of humanity, they most often cannot hide.

We have absolutely nothing in common to talk about, and I would surely never sit down with you for a drink or breaking bread.

For me personally, the most amazing thing I’ve learned over my many years of life on Bali is a reliable perception and unequivocally accurate insight into folks I run into these days.

My wife has this skill inherent within her, and as for me, (being her willing student), I can only brag that I am far better at this skill now than I ever was before I moved to Bali many years ago.

Identifying and recognizing “bule nakal” or “bule bodoh” seems to be an inherent skill among many Indonesians, but for me, it’s only become a slowly acquired skill developed over many years.

In the early days of my marriage to Eri I used to challenge her frequently over what I often thought were quick, off the cuff and seemingly inaccurate summations of one person or another.  But in the end, and not without some financial losses, she always proved to be correct.

These days I often find it easy to tell the difference between the Barong and the Rhangda  without my wife’s opinion, but the subtleties of these skills is an inherent characteristic of most all Balinese, and it’s these subtleties that I’m still learning.

But, when it’s obvious…screamingly obvious, one doesn’t need the soft hand of a willing guide, and for me, this obviousness is painfully evident on this thread.

One of the greatest gifts that Bali offers is the free choice to have totally free range as to who you chose, or not chose, to associate with.  As trite as this “right of friendship” might sound, the fact is that these bonds of friendship will be far more intense and long-lasting than most anything experienced before, and discarding those whose “friendship” or alliance will likely result badly, becomes far easier. 

Wisdom is the eventual outcome of a long life in Bali, and likely it’s the same eventual outcome of a long life anywhere else in Indonesia, although I can’t speak of that from first hand experience.   

For certain, I have yet to meet a long time expatriate here on Bali who hasn’t learned to discard his or her bias, bigotry, racism, arrogance (western superiority) and neo-colonialist attitudes.  Those few who fail in this eventually end up going home, and that is for certain, a good thing!

I  agreed with Mal's comment, i had a Relationship with some western guys before and since that, i'm not really intrested to have a relationship with local guy

Nathasa22 wrote:

I  agreed with Mal's comment, i had a Relationship with some western guys before and since that, i'm not really intrested to have a relationship with local guy

Perhaps you could give detail and reasons.
Why do you find us better than local guys?

So to sum up.

Women are great and often right and men are happy with them.
Giooorgio writes with very long words.
A large proportion of Indonesian women like us expats and that's OK too.
The battle of who can write the longest in this thread has got boring. 

This thread is still on topic just.

So apart from the point, is there anything I have missed?

Male expats in this country are unaturally happy.

Apart from that, seems a good summary

Ubudian wrote:

While you might think that your clever machinations and distortions of the English language may have earned you some sort of purposeful deceit as to who you are

Intellectual honestly has been searched for so long, a noble aim indeed, but I find the best were it all started: true knowledge cannot be attained. By the way, to distort something you have to first properly  own it, isn't it? Not the first time I see plain logic - the western starting point for the said quest - ignored in here, where women seems to change sex once ‘imported’. Yes, I admit, indeed I did my mistakeS, but then why to suspect certain aims among the exaggerated generosity of these islands? This is really something I can’t get. Samhand, thank’s for the entertainment granted by the the posted link, staff from the only land where dogs outnumber humans, ah ah. You've had a brief dream in a very different land and you’re now awake, have a good day.

Nathasa22 wrote:

I  agreed with Mal's comment, i had a Relationship with some western guys before and since that, i'm not really intrested to have a relationship with local guy

Hey Natasha, me too! lol

mas fred wrote:

Nathasa22 wrote:

I  agreed with Mal's comment, i had a Relationship with some western guys before and since that, i'm not really intrested to have a relationship with local guy

Perhaps you could give detail and reasons.
Why do you find us better than local guys?

Hey, you need reasons in thread or in person;)

mal wrote:

Hey, you need reasons in thread or in person;)

Hi Mal, since this thread is about why Expat's like Indonesians and Indonesians like Expats it would be interesting if you share your views on the forum.

Understand if you want to keep it personal, but I'd be interested anyway so just drop me/Fred a PM if you don't want to write in public

The first question was:

candyfixie wrote:

why western dudes like indonesian girls?

But the reverse question "why Indonesian girls like western dudes?" is also interesting I think

As a Western dude I still don't understand it, (but I'm fairly sure it has nothing to do with my blue eyes and expanding waistline)

Cheers

S

Based on my experience, I found western man is more expressive, open minded, they know how to treat woman and respecting us as a woman. Local man (not all of course)they don't know how to treat woman well and most of them have a mindset that woman must know how to service their man, too much asking but not giving. And some of them treat their woman like a maid.

Sadly some western men are like that as well. Not most thankfully.

Historically, at least for Jakarta, back in 1980-1995ish, having expats/foreigner/westerner as life partner were actually very frowned upon, possibly because of the older generation that experienced war were still alive and the fear/disdain stayed (from being colonised). It notably changed after the big depression back in 1997-onwards, and where the globalisation and perhaps open-mind for assimilation occurs.

Back in 2004 before I left for Canada, there weren't that many expats in Jakarta, and expats existence were very much only in business or financial district (menteng, parts of kemang). This changed a lot when I came back in late 2011.

On surface level, some of the reasons many Indonesian girls like western men are pretty much because of the whole 'better treatment' thing, especially in courtship. In a way, I suppose it's kind of a novelty at first because the difference in attitude and new experience also.

For some other reason is also because the whole money thing or wanting a better status, or wanting to get out of Indonesia. But more often than not it's not as cold as it sounds, because it's usually end up tied to the previous point. But of course cold people exist, women or men.

But some others also like western men/women because of the whole potential for more open-mindedness and willingness to discuss various of things, since more and more women in Indonesia are willing to speak out their mind and explore (both mind and physical) in these modern times (Jakarta speaking, I can't speak for other provinces because we're all so culturally diverse) and more often than not some local men (and women) are not too keen yet about it.

The times are changing so more local men (and women) are becoming more open-minded, but Western men more often than not, at least seemingly, already have these values they seek and since there are more of them nowadays in Jakarta, it's easier to just talk to them rather than finding local men with similar values. Over the time it's just become an assumed point... aka stereotyping to some degree.

In the end, this is quite a new trend and Jakarta being chaotic, things will continue to evolve. Who knows how it will be in 5 years

mal wrote:

mas fred wrote:

Nathasa22 wrote:

I  agreed with Mal's comment, i had a Relationship with some western guys before and since that, i'm not really intrested to have a relationship with local guy

Perhaps you could give detail and reasons.
Why do you find us better than local guys?

Hey, you need reasons in thread or in person;)

Gosh; I think I've just been chatted up.
Okay, in person but don't tell my wife.

Samhand wrote:

mal wrote:

Hey, you need reasons in thread or in person;)

Hi Mal, since this thread is about why Expat's like Indonesians and Indonesians like Expats it would be interesting if you share your views on the forum.

Understand if you want to keep it personal, but I'd be interested anyway so just drop me/Fred a PM if you don't want to write in public

Omg! seems am in a problem now;)
OK! but Nathasha has already answered Fred and may be my ideas are useless now! lol
but hmmm.... from my point of view;
Western guys are more romantic and Asian woman is longing for that. They know when, where and how to respect a women.
More live in action, open with ideas. They are keen in whatever the event. Very helpful and treat the woman so gentle when necessary but always with a considerable horsepower!
Generally this is good!

"but always with a considerable horsepower!"

You mean we don't need Extra Joss. 

Horsepower.

Well, I have to admit, now I'm old, it's always quickies.
Never more than 2 hours or 6 orgasm each; whichever comes soonest.

mas fred wrote:

Never more than 2 hours or 6 orgasm each; whichever comes soonest.

Ubudian wrote:

You mean we don't need Extra Joss. 

The guys I knew, never wanted sildenafil or a kind of energy drinks! How abt you?

Only if a martini or two qualifies as an "energy drink!"

Samhand wrote:

And if any of you still have the energy for some light reading

An anarchist analysis of Privilege theory

I found this one interesting

I hope the link works

I just read that the other day - not that exact site, but something pretty much the same.  The thing with male privilege is that most people don't even recognize that it exists.

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

Samhand wrote:

And if any of you still have the energy for some light reading

An anarchist analysis of Privilege theory

I found this one interesting

I hope the link works

I just read that the other day - not that exact site, but something pretty much the same.  The thing with male privilege is that most people don't even recognize that it exists.

The trick is to recognise it, as a tall white male with blue eyes I am lucky to be in the skin i was born in. That's a privalege i didn't earn, but still it's not too hard to remember most people don't see the world through the same eyes

This thread is interesting, if a bit worrying.

Keep an open mind and some respect

It won't matter after it's deleted.

Giooorgio wrote:

Asia is the yin side of the world, so expect women to be the best part of humanity in there. The west is the yang, so it gives its best in males.

Doesn't this make sense? It talks good of me, anyway .

Then, yin and yang or this and that, and to keep it brief, women are a gift from heaven and Indonesian women are particularly gracious, inside out - that's it. Painful is to see how seldom they get all the deserved respect and power(whatever the race is, whenever they didn't turn into semi-males, as it happens). In a balanced world we would not chat of which one is better - we would simply be happy and speechless, I guess, and easily at peace (women make life, not war).

The original God of Europeans was (neolithic) a Goddess and I never got how a sane guy could imagine otherwise and I understand why I turned atheist right at puberty .

Nature makes us coming into a woman because nature chooses the best vehicle - that should be enough for us guys to be a bit wise. Hope these Indo women may help us understanding that we're just screwing all and everything!

P.S. Hey, I deserve a kiss, isn't it?

awesome identification!!

mas fred wrote:

candyfixie wrote:

why western dudes like indonesian girls?

Because so many western girls are fat, beer swilling pig impersonators whilst the majority of Indonesian girls behave like ladies.

Any other questions?

Western women are big, heavy drinkers, smokers, have short curly hair (on their head) when they reach 35, turn to lard when they are 30, really let themselves go after they having kids and lose their femininity quickly.

Western guys usually marry Asian girls that are much younger than themselves with long dark hair and nimble bodies, whereas western tradition is to marry a woman of around the same age. And it's a fact that women age faster than men. How many times has somebody said to you "oh, is this your mother?...."

I wouldn't marry a girl unless she is educated and had decent looks and inteligence and i am also as handsome as Nemadot and can also get any woman I want. I also hate fat women with aggressive attitudes and who booze and smoke so unfortunately that rules out English girls.

Also men generally want to be the boss in a relationship (except those strange 7 stone weaklings that marry huge obese women) and they don't like bickering women who always give them a hard time, so that rules out 90% of western women.

I must say Mike thats even harsher than Mas Freds words which more generalised to western girls in general.

Not sure I agree with the things you said about English girls but each to his own.

Ubudian wrote:

"why western dudes like indonesian girls?"

Let me count the reasons…1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 8, 9, 10…and on and on.

Having been married to two western women in the past…(oh, what a disaster), I can say with no doubts or reservation that my “third time at bat” was my grand slam home run when I found my Balinese wife some 15 years ago.   

All that said, I’m hardly going to espouse that all Indonesian women are akin to a Goddess, but in general I find vast numbers of Indonesian women to be far more gifted with common sense, strength, womanly skills, making incredible mothers, and gifted with an inherent understanding that us guys from Mars will on occasion be total idiots and jerks…and not necessarily requiring a divorce, when we’re caught thinking more with our second head.

On a totally practical level, they are also (in general) extremely good and skillful at handling money. 

IMHO, it is the women of Indonesia that are the unbreakable glue that binds Indonesia.  I see this every day right in my own small kampung, and right up to national levels. 

Indonesian women are not part of the Prozac Nation or western womanhood that often seems to me to be in constant turmoil over their identity, and their role in society.   

And finally, I would say from my own personal experience, that many Indonesian women are incredibly sexy and amazingly skillful, as well as desirous, of fulfilling the needs of their man.  Shall I go on about that?....

Oh, and btw...Nemo...don't confuse wanita dari Malaysia with wanita dari Indonesia!  It's like comparing oranges to mango.

I'm truly sorry that you're stuck in KL! 

Very well said Ubudian!!!

I'm glad that the qualities you've listed aren't exclusive of women from Bali, my Brazilian wife has all of them too. I consider myself lucky to have found her after a couple of disasterous marriages too. The fact that she's 37 years younger than I am doesn't hurt either. 

Cheers,
James

Indeed, it looks like 30 years of fight for equality and women rights in the Western world have just vanished here.
Western women are more independent, ask for equality within the couple.
Yet western guys prefer women who would cook for them, wash their clothes, spread their leggs and shut up.