Looking for a tropical location that meet our expat criteria

Stop dreaming (the place you outline does not exist!) and decide where to compromise.

Hello Beppi,
Thanks for the note of advice. Indeed, open to make necessary adjustments/compromises when necessary.

Do you reckon which requirement(s) need compromise?

Thanks again for the dialogue.

if you are able to figure out how you can predict what airfare prices will be in 2020, you probably will be rich enough to not worry about buying a cheap house.

Somewhere in northern Latin America - Mexico or Guatemala, maybe. Spend a few hours on Google.

Better start an extensive Google search program I think.
You are aiming for the impossible.

Thanks ECS for your input.

I don't intend for this exercise to hit precise and perfect results. We can always use some inflation numbers and historical trends to ball park estimates. I would tweak my estimates as come closer to 2020.

Thanks again and hope this dialogue will attract more interest and viewpoints.

Cheers,
UT

I concur with you Gordon. There are some towns near Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.

I know Costa Rica has a few spots that can meet most of the requirements. Also researching on Ecuador.

I shall research further in Latin America as your suggestion is encouraging.

Thank you Gordon,
UT

Yes Stumpy, extensive research is essential -for that hoping to get some help and guidance from experienced folks like you.

On a side note, I say that once achieved by someone somewhere, things deem possible. Until then, impossible.

Hope learn further from you.

Thanks Stumpy,
UT

Pall. Here is an extract from a post on my personal blog on the topic of "Looking for bolt-holes" in September 2012. I post it now, here, mainly to recommend that you not be put off by a foreign language.

"For boltholes, we have our eyes on Lake Atitlan in Guatemala, Lakes Chapala and Avandaro in Mexico, and maybe the vicinity of Vilcabamba in Ecuador if it hasn’t changed too much in the past few years. Friends recommend parts of Costa Rica and Panama, but we don’t know them at first hand.

"Why would we consider anywhere in Latin America, when we don’t speak Spanish? Well, we can speak a sort of pidgin Spanish, which is adequate for day-to-day dealings. We rely heavily on goodwill, which we’ve usually found more effective than language. Hey, we have Norwegian grandchildren, and we don’t speak their language. Spanish is a doddle, compared with Norwegian."

Gordon Barlow wrote:

Hey, we have Norwegian grandchildren, and we don’t speak their language. Spanish is a doddle, compared with Norwegian."[/i]

whaaat? The language that doesn't have verb forms in the present tense? I am, we am, you am, they am. It's like someone borrowed the easiest parts of English and German and Icelandic and mashed them together, then said, "and don't bother pronouncing half the letters here"

Gordon Barlow wrote:

Pall. Here is an extract from a post on my personal blog on the topic of "Looking for bolt-holes" in September 2012. I post it now, here, mainly to recommend that you not be put off by a foreign language.

"For boltholes, we have our eyes on Lake Atitlan in Guatemala, Lakes Chapala and Avandaro in Mexico, and maybe the vicinity of Vilcabamba in Ecuador if it hasn’t changed too much in the past few years. Friends recommend parts of Costa Rica and Panama, but we don’t know them at first hand.

"Why would we consider anywhere in Latin America, when we don’t speak Spanish? Well, we can speak a sort of pidgin Spanish, which is adequate for day-to-day dealings. We rely heavily on goodwill, which we’ve usually found more effective than language. Hey, we have Norwegian grandchildren, and we don’t speak their language. Spanish is a doddle, compared with Norwegian."

This is great piece of info. Thanks Gordon for the note. It will certainly help folks aspirant of great-value tropics!

Cuba.  It will be very friendly toward foreigners after the war in 2017 and the radiation levels should keep plane ticket and real estate prices low.

ECS wrote:

whaaat? The language that doesn't have verb forms in the present tense? I am, we am, you am, they am. It's like someone borrowed the easiest parts of English and German and Icelandic and mashed them together, then said, "and don't bother pronouncing half the letters here"

That sounds like Chinese.  They don't conjugate verbs or use different tenses.

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

Cuba.  It will be very friendly toward foreigners after the war in 2017 and the radiation levels should keep plane ticket and real estate prices low.

I've vacationed in parts of Cuba. The beaches are fabulous.
I wouldn't wish for wars though.

Anything in far East that looks promising?

Thank you Hailey,
UT

Nothing in the Far East fulfills "Less than $ 700 CAD for a round trip airfare  from Toronto".

beppi wrote:

Nothing in the Far East fulfills "Less than $ 700 CAD for a round trip airfare  from Toronto".

Good point Beppi. For now the Far East is out of reach as travelling from Toronto once or twice a year will require to increase the yearly budget.

So far Caribbean and parts of Latin America have flights available for $600 plus or minus 100.

Southern USA is also promising (Carolinas to Florida). I need to do more research...

Regards,
UT

If your budget is that tight, you better stay where you are, work and save a bit more before dreaming again.
Starting a new life in a new place isn't cheap anywhere, and there will always be unplanned expenses due to unforeseen issues.
As a good rule of thumb, relocation costs double of what you thought it would!

In addition, the difference in living expenses between, say, Florida and Thailand is vastly higher than than a few flight tickets' additional cost.

beppi wrote:

If your budget is that tight, you better stay where you are, work and save a bit more before dreaming again.
Starting a new life in a new place isn't cheap anywhere, and there will always be unplanned expenses due to unforeseen issues.
As a good rule of thumb, relocation costs double of what you thought it would!

Yes Beppi, the unplanned events could and would happen and one needs reasonable funds set aside for that.

To make sure that we all are on same page, please note that we are looking for Winter months second home -basic nothing fancy.

Thank you for giving me many points to think about.

beppi wrote:

In addition, the difference in living expenses between, say, Florida and Thailand is vastly higher than than a few flight tickets' additional cost.

Your point well noted. I have now added another criterion to my list (i.e monthly living cost less than $2000 CAD).

Many variable costs here but it should give more accurate picture.... I bet there are many folks looking to spend about $100K in capital and $2000/month in living expenses for 4 to 6 months in sun/mountain/ocean.

Many thanks Beppi - please keep sharing your knowledge.

Pall1969 wrote:

beppi wrote:

If your budget is that tight, you better stay where you are, work and save a bit more before dreaming again.
Starting a new life in a new place isn't cheap anywhere, and there will always be unplanned expenses due to unforeseen issues.
As a good rule of thumb, relocation costs double of what you thought it would!

Yes Beppi, the unplanned events could and would happen and one needs reasonable funds set aside for that.

To make sure that we all are on same page, please note that we are looking for Winter months second home -basic nothing fancy.

Thank you for giving me many points to think about.

On a lighter side, Beppi, consider life as a box of assorted pills of reality. Keep the candy of your dreams out of that box - taste and savor it:)

I would invest in alternate reality technology and stay virtual during vacations.

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

I would invest in alternate reality technology and stay virtual during vacations.

That is an option Hailey - I wish you luck in pursuing the virtual reality.

Meanwhile, there is a world of minimalists emerging throughout the continents. I opt for finding a real and economical spot in the green world under the sun.

Keep your feedback flowing - you represent a certain subsection of a macro world and your views are as important.

cheers,
UT

I guess that's better than a micro world.

But I'm not talking about me.  I'm not looking for a tropical paradise.

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

I guess that's better than a micro world.

But I'm not talking about me.  I'm not looking for a tropical paradise.

Thanks Hailey for the note of clarification. I have not graduated to a level to judge quality of feedbacks here. I am learning and gathering information.

Thanks,
UT

Pall1969 wrote:

I have not graduated to a level to judge quality of feedbacks here. I am learning and gathering information.

Most of us post late at night when we're drunk.  I don't know if that helps.

Little outdated article from International Living magazine but it gives an idea about land price in some of Lain American countries:

http://internationalliving.com/2011/06/ … k-an-acre/

3 acres land for less than $50k seems feasible...

Cheers,
Pall

Pall1969 wrote:

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

I would invest in alternate reality technology and stay virtual during vacations.

That is an option Hailey - I wish you luck in pursuing the virtual reality.

Meanwhile, there is a world of minimalists emerging throughout the continents. I opt for finding a real and economical spot in the green world under the sun.

Keep your feedback flowing - you represent a certain subsection of a macro world and your views are as important.

cheers,
UT

Hi Utpal,

================================

I have something very close to what you want.

Dear Pall1969,

You have just described Serra do Mar (Sea Mountains), in the São Paulo state!

800-1000 meters of altitude.
Temperature in winter not usually below 15C. Hardly ever below 10C.
Temperature in summer hardly ever higher than 34C.
40 minutes from beaches like São Sebastião and Ubatuba. (search for images of "toque toque pequeno" "ilha bela", "itamambuca"
Beaches are warmer, because of low altitude, so you can have mild climate by going up the mountains and then reach warm beaches 40 minutes from there.

Close to the tenth richest city in the world, São Paulo, but far enough to avoid the caos of big cities.

Lands in mountainous regions that can be as cheap as 2USD per square meter.

Please write to daugustonew@yahoo.com.br and I´ll be glad to give you support on your goals. 

Best regards,

Denis Augusto

Please let me share a view of the city of Paraibuna:

[img][link under review]

Hi

In case for a compromise would you consider the south seas? Brittish Polynesia, Cook Islands

Climate

- Winter in Canada is Summer in Cook Islands. You would have 30°c plus. Perhaps to warm??? You did not say.
- Able to grow vegetables outdoor year around is a definate but hey tropical fruits too.

Topography

- You could be on the edge of the hill on island of Rarotonga overlooking the ocean and the beaches about 500 meters away. On Aitutaki island you can be on the elevated center less then 5min from the beach.

Budget

- Just buying land on the main island Rarotonga would set you up with about a acre for 70-100CAD.
On Aitutaki there is both cheap smaller sections of land and a real 3 acre dream location for about 400K CAD.
- You will be able to find airfare for about CAD 800 if booking in far advance.
- Yearly property tax do not exist, but you pay annual lease.
- Monthly minimalist living is very very low. You as a couple could go around on a few hundred a month.

Other

- Safeness is it - no dangerous animals and pretty much no crime. There are other expats as well as tourists.
- There is horse riding as well as lagoon cruises.
- Real Estate ownership laws foreigner friendly in a sence. Ownership is a lease, usually on 60 year term.

magnus wrote:

In case for a compromise would you consider the south seas? British Polynesia, Cook Islands

English-speaking, Magnus, not British by nationality; there is no "British Polynesia". Wikipedia: The Cook Islands is an island country in the South Pacific Ocean in free association with New Zealand.

Wikipedia doesn't actually say one can live there without a job. What's the story there? Also, how is the health situation? Many years ago my wife and I lived in what is now called Vanuatu, which has endemic malaria and other mosquito-borne diseases. Cooks may be the same.

Gordon Barlow wrote:

magnus wrote:

In case for a compromise would you consider the south seas? British Polynesia, Cook Islands

English-speaking, Magnus, not British by nationality; there is no "British Polynesia". Wikipedia: The Cook Islands is an island country in the South Pacific Ocean in free association with New Zealand.

Wikipedia doesn't actually say one can live there without a job. What's the story there? Also, how is the health situation? Many years ago my wife and I lived in what is now called Vanuatu, which has endemic malaria and other mosquito-borne diseases. Cooks may be the same.

Hello Gordon

Thank you for the input, I did however find that you refer to Wikipedia.
Please don't reference to Wikipedia in any arguments. Wiki is good for fast facts, but the facts from Wiki is sometimes not full facts, they are also often wrong facts.

Some facts:
Cook Islands as you described it is a island nation in the South Pacific Ocean in free association with New Zealand.
It means they are their own country but rely on NZ in some aspects.
1. The Cook Islanders have NZ Passports.
2. The Cook Islands is protected by NZ military in case of war.
3. The Cook Islands gain monetary aid from NZ.

There are 2 main languages in the Cook Islands - English and Cook Maori.

Since Cook Islands is under New Zealand protectorate and since New Zealand is part of the Brittish Commonwealth Cook Islands also have Queen Elisabeth as "Head of State".

Since the neighbor in the east is French Polynesia many people in Cook Islands call themselves Brittish Polynesia. Remember the islands have had many names before Cpt Cook got to leave his name for them.

In regards to mozzie borne sicknesses I let someone else answer but I do not think Vanuatu is so close to Cook Islands that it is referable. After all it is nearly 3600Km between, about the same distance as between Belgium and Iraq.

As an example, I have found 1,2 acre for some 11,400 CAD with this beautiful view:

760m of altitude
185km from São Paulo, where you can find most anything you can think of but far enough from caos.
20ºC year average.
1.300 to 1.500mm of rain yearly.
1h30 from the beach.



Your proposed budget is more than enough.
Regarding  an established expat community, I would say São Paulo is a VERY cosmopolitan city but unfortunately immigrants tend to mix with the city´s inhabitants rather than forming well defined communities.
As to applying permaculture concepts to your lifestyle, I would have to know more specifics to be sure to meet your needs.


Best,