Marriage

First problem is that the requirements in VN pale in comparison to what the USCIS (United States Customs and Immigration Service) mandatory hurdles are. Example: I am in America now getting a certified copy from my state capital proving what marriages were performed since I was 18 to present date. However their  records only go to 2011 so I had to go to my local probate court house to get a certified letter from 2011 to 2013. Plus I had to go to the clerk of courts at another court house to get a certified copy of my divorce even tho the state certification said I was divorced. Plus copies of passport, birth certificate, marriage license, a lease showing we live together as husband and wife, signed affidavits of witnesses knowing of our marriage, a bio form of her family information, a certified single status from the US Consulate that then had to be verified by the VN office in HCMC etc etc etc I think I've made my point. Of course ALL that has to be sent to Chicago that takes 6 months THEN sometime (no one can tell me how long) after that they schedule a personal interview in HCMC!!!1

Solo1 wrote:

First problem is that the requirements in VN pale in comparison to what the USCIS (United States Customs and Immigration Service) mandatory hurdles are. Example: I am in America now getting a certified copy from my state capital proving what marriages were performed since I was 18 to present date. However their  records only go to 2011 so I had to go to my local probate court house to get a certified letter from 2011 to 2013. Plus I had to go to the clerk of courts at another court house to get a certified copy of my divorce even tho the state certification said I was divorced. Plus copies of passport, birth certificate, marriage license, a lease showing we live together as husband and wife, signed affidavits of witnesses knowing of our marriage, a bio form of her family information, a certified single status from the US Consulate that then had to be verified by the VN office in HCMC etc etc etc I think I've made my point. Of course ALL that has to be sent to Chicago that takes 6 months THEN sometime (no one can tell me how long) after that they schedule a personal interview in HCMC!!!1

Sounds like a difficult situation.  I am still not sure why my friend wants to be legally married. He has according to him, no desire to live in the states again. I have suggested to him that he can always make a will to care for her if something happens to him.  Now another friend of mine got married to insure his wife would get VA and SSA survivor benefits. He is still unsure if she will recieve anything because she has never been to the states.  The consulate hasn't been very helpful and his income takes a while just to save up for the 2 round trip tickets.

www.uscis.gov will answer many questions for your friend.

Hong Kong seems happy to marry non-residents.  All you need to do is register a couple of weeks before with the proper bureau and book a date at the registry office.  I'm Australian and once married a Japanese in HK; there were no problems in any jurisdiction with an HK marriage as long as you have a proper copy of the marriage certificate(hasn't been relevant in VN as I am divorced now).  Australia is also happy to marry non-residents but you have to fill out and file an intention to marry form one month prior to the intended date and lodge it with an approved celebrant or a state registry office.  Again, like HK, an Australian marriage will be recognized in most jurisdictions.

Ancient,
  Not sure what kind of VA benefits your friend gets and hopes to pass on to his spouse, but in regards to SS benefits if she is not a U.S. citizen or Green card holder it is notta on any SS benefits. I too thought any spouse, if married for 10 or more years could get your SS benefits. However, I checked into it and it does not work that way.

Solo,
   Is the hurdles you speak of for a marriage you plan on doing in the USA or here in VN? Gosh it sounds like a real hassle, and for what reason. I had no idea, other than your other posts on this that it was like this.

bta87 wrote:

Ancient,
  Not sure what kind of VA benefits your friend gets and hopes to pass on to his spouse, but in regards to SS benefits if she is not a U.S. citizen or Green card holder it is notta on any SS benefits. I too thought any spouse, if married for 10 or more years could get your SS benefits. However, I checked into it and it does not work that way.

Solo,
   Is the hurdles you speak of for a marriage you plan on doing in the USA or here in VN? Gosh it sounds like a real hassle, and for what reason. I had no idea, other than your other posts on this that it was like this.

I am also not sure if there are any survivor benefits for him to pass on either.  He is rated at 30% and the VA has yet to add the dependent rate.  Good infor on Social Security.  I will pass it on to him. 

The friend in Da Nang is acting like a love sick puppy, but if it makes him happy, I say go for it.  I may just be to jaded to acknowledge true love...

bta87 wrote:

Ancient,Is the hurdles you speak of for a marriage you plan on doing in the USA or here in VN? Gosh it sounds like a real hassle, and for what reason. I had no idea, other than your other posts on this that it was like this.

Its for the USA. I have many friends that have Asian wives here and it is a P.I.T.A. to get marriage VISA, green card and US citizenship because of many scams and the prize of coming to the USA. The US Gov wants to make sure it is a real marriage and not a paid for play situation. I have heard stories of people paying $100k for marriage to US citizen. Crazy, eh?

Good_man,
Thats what I thought. I know there is concern for this type of thing. Boy what a hassle. I was once married to an Italian, and we never had to go through this hurdle back then (1990). But then she was from Italy, and I don't think they were big players in the sex trade back then or now for that matter. There are so many international agreements being forced on countries to tighten their policies now in this area.
  Thanks for the info.

bta87 wrote:

Ancient,
  Not sure what kind of VA benefits your friend gets and hopes to pass on to his spouse, but in regards to SS benefits if she is not a U.S. citizen or Green card holder it is notta on any SS benefits. I too thought any spouse, if married for 10 or more years could get your SS benefits. However, I checked into it and it does not work that way.

Solo,
   Is the hurdles you speak of for a marriage you plan on doing in the USA or here in VN? Gosh it sounds like a real hassle, and for what reason. I had no idea, other than your other posts on this that it was like this.

Our marriage will be recognized by the U.S. government as legal as soon as we are married in VN. However if she ever wants to live in the U.S. then hence a mountain of paperwork.

While I'm on the subject-When I filled out the single status form in HCMC I checked the single status box instead of the divorced box. When my fiancé took the form to her village office the lady said that because of my age she did not believe that I was single. My fiancé caved and admitted that I was divorced. Soooo the lady refused the paperwork and said that I must go back to HCMC and obtain a new and correct form which I did. Since I was on my way to the States I mailed the new and correct form to my fiancé to take back to her village in an attempt to save time. However my fiancé did not write her birthday on her form and the lady refused to process the paperwork unless I was there to witness the correction!!!!!! We are paying the ladies subordinate to assist us in this process so either we are paying the wrong person or we are not paying enough or both.

bta87 wrote:

Good_man,
Thats what I thought. I know there is concern for this type of thing. Boy what a hassle. I was once married to an Italian, and we never had to go through this hurdle back then (1990). But then she was from Italy, and I don't think they were big players in the sex trade back then or now for that matter. There are so many international agreements being forced on countries to tighten their policies now in this area.
  Thanks for the info.

It doesn't matter anymore where a person comes from, everyone has to go thru the same process. The price I was talking about wasn't for sex trade it was/is the going rate for someone to come to USA for marriage. This is how prized a US citizenship has become even with all the silliness going on in Washington these days.

Good_Man wrote:

bta87 wrote:

Ancient,Is the hurdles you speak of for a marriage you plan on doing in the USA or here in VN? Gosh it sounds like a real hassle, and for what reason. I had no idea, other than your other posts on this that it was like this.

Its for the USA. I have many friends that have Asian wives here and it is a P.I.T.A. to get marriage VISA, green card and US citizenship because of many scams and the prize of coming to the USA. The US Gov wants to make sure it is a real marriage and not a paid for play situation. I have heard stories of people paying $100k for marriage to US citizen. Crazy, eh?

Well, if the girl loves you...truly loves you, then it wouldn't matter where you live now would it?  Easy enough..."Honey, I love you but we're going to live in the Great Socialist Republic of Vietnam!  So will you marry me?"

I once fell head over heel with a girl...and I told her I wanted to live here.  She wouldn't accept...so much for true love.  I was just a means to get overseas, a boarding pass, a ferry ticket?  Shhooooot, is that all I'm worth?  Hell, just like you said, I could of gotten $100K instead.

Solo1 wrote:

While I'm on the subject-When I filled out the single status form in HCMC I checked the single status box instead of the divorced box. When my fiancé took the form to her village office the lady said that because of my age she did not believe that I was single. My fiancé caved and admitted that I was divorced. Soooo the lady refused the paperwork and said that I must go back to HCMC and obtain a new and correct form which I did. Since I was on my way to the States I mailed the new and correct form to my fiancé to take back to her village in an attempt to save time. However my fiancé did not write her birthday on her form and the lady refused to process the paperwork unless I was there to witness the correction!!!!!! We are paying the ladies subordinate to assist us in this process so either we are paying the wrong person or we are not paying enough or both.

Just to explain a bit.  There has been many instances where Vietnamese brides went to China and South Korea and were mistreated.  Some were killed, and a few committed suicide.  So the Vietnamese government in response started to scrutinize their paperwork process a little more.

Of course it is! Almost 'lovers' want to immigrate to the US and get a green card there. You are absolutely a 'first step' with regard to them.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

I once fell head over heel with a girl...and I told her I wanted to live here.  She wouldn't accept...so much for true love.  I was just a means to get overseas, a board pass, a ferry ticket?  Shhooooot, is that all I'm worth?  Hell, just like you said, I could of gotten $100K instead.

Shoot!  I'm an Australian about to marry a Vietnamese woman who also holds a US passport.  Do I need to pay her $100k for the "privilege"?

Good_Man wrote:

bta87 wrote:

Good_man,
Thats what I thought. I know there is concern for this type of thing. Boy what a hassle. I was once married to an Italian, and we never had to go through this hurdle back then (1990). But then she was from Italy, and I don't think they were big players in the sex trade back then or now for that matter. There are so many international agreements being forced on countries to tighten their policies now in this area.
  Thanks for the info.

It doesn't matter anymore where a person comes from, everyone has to go thru the same process. The price I was talking about wasn't for sex trade it was/is the going rate for someone to come to USA for marriage. This is how prized a US citizenship has become even with all the silliness going on in Washington these days.

Yes...just to illustrate.  There was just a recent BUST of an American Consulate Office receiving massive bribes in exchange for giving Vietnamese visas.  Let me see if I can find it.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/05/23/1 … lions.html

By the way Ron, nice new look.  You're a productive member of society!

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

Good_Man wrote:

bta87 wrote:

Ancient,Is the hurdles you speak of for a marriage you plan on doing in the USA or here in VN? Gosh it sounds like a real hassle, and for what reason. I had no idea, other than your other posts on this that it was like this.

Its for the USA. I have many friends that have Asian wives here and it is a P.I.T.A. to get marriage VISA, green card and US citizenship because of many scams and the prize of coming to the USA. The US Gov wants to make sure it is a real marriage and not a paid for play situation. I have heard stories of people paying $100k for marriage to US citizen. Crazy, eh?

Well, if the girl loves you...truly loves you, then it wouldn't matter where you live now would it?  Easy enough..."Honey, I love you but we're going to live in the Great Socialist Republic of Vietnam!  So will you marry me?"

I once fell head over heel with a girl...and I told her I wanted to live here.  She wouldn't accept...so much for true love.  I was just a means to get overseas, a board pass, a ferry ticket?  Shhooooot, is that all I'm worth?  Hell, just like you said, I could of gotten $100K instead.

When my girlfriend and I originally discussed our future plans a few months ago she wanted to stay in Nha Trang and said that she did not want to move anywhere, not even the U.S. As the months went on she recently changed her mind and said ok if we get married she was willing to move to the U.S.

richiv wrote:

Shoot!  I'm an Australian about to marry a Vietnamese woman who also holds a US passport.  Do I need to pay her $100k for the "privilege"?

If she holds a US Passport, wouldn't that make her a US Citizen?  hence, an American?  If she's Vietnamese, then she'd be holding a Vietnamese passport and be a Vietnamese citizen wouldn't she?

You being Australian allows you to immigrate to the USA easier than a non-NATO ally.

bta87 wrote:

Ancient,
  Not sure what kind of VA benefits your friend gets and hopes to pass on to his spouse, but in regards to SS benefits if she is not a U.S. citizen or Green card holder it is notta on any SS benefits. I too thought any spouse, if married for 10 or more years could get your SS benefits. However, I checked into it and it does not work that way.

Solo,
   Is the hurdles you speak of for a marriage you plan on doing in the USA or here in VN? Gosh it sounds like a real hassle, and for what reason. I had no idea, other than your other posts on this that it was like this.

bta87--Yes she must have a Green card or be a U.S. citizen to qualify for benefits from SS

Solo1 wrote:

bta87 wrote:

Ancient,
  Not sure what kind of VA benefits your friend gets and hopes to pass on to his spouse, but in regards to SS benefits if she is not a U.S. citizen or Green card holder it is notta on any SS benefits. I too thought any spouse, if married for 10 or more years could get your SS benefits. However, I checked into it and it does not work that way.

Solo,
   Is the hurdles you speak of for a marriage you plan on doing in the USA or here in VN? Gosh it sounds like a real hassle, and for what reason. I had no idea, other than your other posts on this that it was like this.

bta87--Yes she must have a Green card or be a U.S. citizen to qualify for benefits from SS

Solo1, I haven't read much into the SS system but isn't it a pay into system?  In other words, if you didn't work and pay your SS taxes into the fun, then you can't get anything out of it later on.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

richiv wrote:

Shoot!  I'm an Australian about to marry a Vietnamese woman who also holds a US passport.  Do I need to pay her $100k for the "privilege"?

If she holds a US Passport, wouldn't that make her a US Citizen?  hence, an American?  If she's Vietnamese, then she'd be holding a Vietnamese passport and be a Vietnamese citizen wouldn't she?

You being Australian allows you to immigrate to the USA easier than a non-NATO ally.

There are several qualifications necessary to receive a United States passport. You must be able to prove you are a United States citizen and must also have a photograph taken to show your identity. You must also apply for a US passport in person if you are applying for the first time, you are under the age of 16, your first passport was issued if you were under 16, you had a passport that was lost, damaged or stolen, and if your last passport was issued more than 15 years prior.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

Solo1 wrote:

bta87 wrote:

Ancient,
  Not sure what kind of VA benefits your friend gets and hopes to pass on to his spouse, but in regards to SS benefits if she is not a U.S. citizen or Green card holder it is notta on any SS benefits. I too thought any spouse, if married for 10 or more years could get your SS benefits. However, I checked into it and it does not work that way.

Solo,
   Is the hurdles you speak of for a marriage you plan on doing in the USA or here in VN? Gosh it sounds like a real hassle, and for what reason. I had no idea, other than your other posts on this that it was like this.

bta87--Yes she must have a Green card or be a U.S. citizen to qualify for benefits from SS

Solo1, I haven't read much into the SS system but isn't it a pay into system?  In other words, if you didn't work and pay your SS taxes into the fun, then you can't get anything out of it later on.

Yes you are partly correct. I am speaking of survivor benefits after a marriage of 10 years or more.

Solo1 wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

richiv wrote:

Shoot!  I'm an Australian about to marry a Vietnamese woman who also holds a US passport.  Do I need to pay her $100k for the "privilege"?

If she holds a US Passport, wouldn't that make her a US Citizen?  hence, an American?  If she's Vietnamese, then she'd be holding a Vietnamese passport and be a Vietnamese citizen wouldn't she?

You being Australian allows you to immigrate to the USA easier than a non-NATO ally.

There are several qualifications necessary to receive a United States passport. You must be able to prove you are a United States citizen and must also have a photograph taken to show your identity. You must also apply for a US passport in person if you are applying for the first time, you are under the age of 16, your first passport was issued if you were under 16, you had a passport that was lost, damaged or stolen, and if your last passport was issued more than 15 years prior.

Thanks Solo1.  In other words, if you have a US Passport, then you are a US Citizen...and hence an American.  To say "A Vietnamese holds a US Passport" is kinda insulting.  An American is an American...don't try to devalue that.  If you like, you can use hyphens..Vietnamese-American, African-American..and so on.  Too many men shed blood for that label and too many people are still shedding blood to earn that label. 

Yes, she has dual citizenship, so I guess it would be easier for me to go to the US if I wanted to.  But interestingly enough, after 10 years living in the US, she prefers VN...as do I.  Anyway, glad she hasn't requested her $100k yet!

richiv wrote:

Yes, she has dual citizenship, so I guess it would be easier for me to go to the US if I wanted to.  But interestingly enough, after 10 years living in the US, she prefers VN...as do I.  Anyway, glad she hasn't requested her $100k yet!

I thought as much.  However, in your first post, you omitted that your wife is Vietnamese AND American. 

So...nothing stopping you for paying your wife $100K.

There's also a scam going on to get into Australia...but the black market rate is just $20000 USD so entry into the land of Oz is still valued much less than entry into the "land of the free and the home of the brave". 

I posted this on Solo1's thread about waiting times for visas a few weeks ago.

saigonmonkey wrote:

My wife (Chinese, but got US visa at HCM consulate) has been to the States with me 3 different times, on US tourist visas. All 3 times, she was just my girlfriend, until the last time, when we got married at the county courthouse near my hometown. So now, we are legally married in the US. Anyone here know what's going to happen the next time she applies for a US visa, and they find out she's now my wife? My plan is for her to just get another tourist visa, because we only want to visit my family - we have no intention of moving there anytime soon. My career is in Vietnam - I have nothing but retirement options in the USA. Anyone else done it this way?

After I get my baby's US citizenship squared away next week, we will start thinking about when to get my wife's US visa for our next trip at Tet. If we have no problems getting her visa, then it would seem to me that the easiest way to get a US marriage license would be to do what I did.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

There's also a scam going on to get into Australia...but the black market rate is just $20000 USD so entry into the land of Oz is still valued much less than entry into the "land of the free and the home of the brave". 

What?  You mean a country with better education, cheaper healthcare, and better weather is valued at 1/5 as much as "the good old US of A"?  It's good to know there are still some valuation anomalies left in the world!

Tran,
  No, you would be very surprised how many people can draw on your SS benefits and never had paid a dime into it at all. For example: you could have been married to 3 women, each for 10 years or more, they can all draw on your SS benefits . Any child under the age of 18 of the marriage can also draw on your benefits should you pass. If you look  at all the possibilities and if they all drew on your benefits at the same time it is any wonder the system is in such a mess.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

There's also a scam going on to get into Australia...but the black market rate is just $20000 USD so entry into the land of Oz is still valued much less than entry into the "land of the free and the home of the brave". 

20 grand was a long long time ago. People are offering upto $60 000 aud these days

Okay, some people here have convinced me it may be in my best interests to get married.  Where do I find someone with 100000 usd to pay me? We can call it a dowery.

I don't understand why anyone would pay $60,000 or $100,000 to get a visa to the US.  A big myth among a lot of vietnamese people I've met, is that it's somehow impossible, or difficult to immigrate to US, Canada, or other affluent countries, without getting married to a citizen of those countries.

You can pick up a skilled trade, work experience in certain fields, or have a job under certain categories, and when you have at least 2 years experience (this is from Canada's immigration system), you are pretty much guaranteed to get a permanent resident visa, provided those jobs are in demand.  In my country, we have a huge skilled trade shortage, even our own citizens don't want to do skilled trade jobs, so we have to constantly hire people overseas.  I know one barrier might be the TOEFL english test, but from many people I've talked to, if you can study english for a good 2-3 years continuously, you should have no problem passing.

You can apply as a live in caregiver, and you don't even need a degree, just high school equivalent, ONLY 6 months experience as a caregiver, and you're in.

And I know a lot of Vietnamese want to go the USA so badly, but there are other countries out there you can go to.  Canada is probably the most similar to USA in terms of culture, multiculturalism, and you get free health care, etc.  Australia has a high quality of living as well.  You also have Singapore, which is the wealthiest Asian nation in terms of GDP/capita, (by the way, Vietnamese don't need a visa to go there).  You have so many options to choose!

I have a cousin who wants to immigrate to Canada so bad, but she doesn't speak much English, doesn't even want to learn, and she keeps telling me, "well I'll try to get used to it".  she thinks its just easy money there, but doesn't realize if you can't even speak the language, you won't get very far.  Also, she might not like the lifestyle here compared to back home, as she likes to go out every night, if you try to do that here, you will be broke so quick.  Her boyfriend also wanted to come here, I suggested taking up carpentry for a couple years and apply under provincial program, but he only wanted to do an "office job", so now 3 years later, he still wants to come here, but he has zero work experience in the trades, if he took my advice, he could've been here last year, and apply to sponosr my cousin after they get married, but now they're both back to square one, LOL

TDH, Australia not a member of NATO. Try Seato (which VN is a member of).

Mikeymyke, Canada is cold! Colder than the U.S. (unless you live in Vancouver or Victoria). Notice that Vietnamese-Americans tend to congregate in (Southern) California, Texas, Louisiana, and Florida. OK, a fair number live in Seattle, but even taht is far warmer than Boston, which is about the same latitude.

No small number of Vietnamese who immigrate here go home. Making money here means lots of hard work. Some people come in thinking that money here can be plucked off the trees. (My Irish Grandmother used to joke about looking down in the street for several years after she got here, expecting to find some gold. She'd been told you could pick gold up in the streets of America.) I'd bet that the majority of VN here stay, but every family has a tale of someone who came in, did not like the hard work, and went home.

A fair amount of Viet Kieu we know plan to return once they have their social security checks, which by the way do not depend on citizenship. The courts have ruled that Social Security is gained by paying into it, and is not dependent upon obtaining American citizenship. If you are legally in the country and working, and paying into SS for the required time, you are eligible even if you move back to a foreign country.

lirelou,
   You are correct in part on your SS assumptions. If you can legally pay into SS then you can withdraw. However, if you are a VNese spouse that does not have a green card/citizenship you can not draw on your American spouses SS account. I currently don't know of any way for someone to legally work in the USA w/o at least a green card. So those that can not legally work can not pay into the SS system. Of course, things change and maybe they can now. But as of August I can assure you that the VNese spouse issue I mentioned above is still the SS policy.

Perhaps what you mean by legally is that they do indeed have a green card/citizenship, and just not legally there via, say a visa. If that is your position then indeed you are correct. ASt least that is what I draw from the SS policy as I've read it.

lirelou wrote:

TDH, Australia not a member of NATO. Try Seato (which VN is a member of).
..

Thanks for the clarification.  I knew Australia was an Ally but had the wrong treaty.

bta87, it not an assumption. It an opinion of the US Supreme Court which was issued sometime back in the 50s. The plaintiff had legally emigrated from Bulgaria to the U.S. and worked many years without becoming a U.S. citizen, paying into Social Security. After retiring, he decided to return to Bulgaria, then a Communist country. The SSA cur his SS payments off. THe Court ordered them reinstated and held that Citizenship was not a prerequisite for receiving social security. Notice that even the SSA recognizes that some persons, not U.S. Citizens or legally admitted aliens for immigration, may still be entitled to register with Social Security. (I have no idea what those would be. Foreign dependent children perhaps?)

Yes, it not a visa, it's having the right class of visa. Generally, immigration into the U.S. with the intention of becoming a US citizen.

From the SSA site:

To apply for an original card, you must provide at least two documents to prove age, identity, and U.S. citizenship or current lawful, work-authorized immigration status. If you are not a U.S. citizen and do not have DHS work authorization, you must prove that you have a valid non-work reason for requesting a card.

Solo1,
   I just noticed your comment that you were speaking of survivors benefits after a marriage of 10 years or more. This is what I was referring to as well when I said she must have a green card...If they are not holders of one of these they can't collect on your benefits.

Lirelou,
   Perhaps the US Supreme Court ruled this way in 1950. However, the court is an evolving body and their opinions have been changed by many of the courts that followed. Witness imminent domain for
one, the death penalty for another. Perhaps the SSA currently has their policy wrong. Yet the fact remains from what I recently read in August of 2013: unless the surviving spouse has a green card or citizenship she/he can not draw on your benefits. Perhaps you are thinking of benefits to the one who paid into the system. In that respect I think you are correct.
My point was for a survivor of someone who paid in.

Lirelou,
   By the quote you provide from the SSA it seems we are indeed speaking of two different examples.
Indeed, if you have sought and received any of the items mentioned in your quote, as I understand it you could draw survivor's benefits.
   I am speaking of a survivor who lives in, say, Vietnam, and never immigrated to the USA. A horse of a different color.