Considering moving to PR, central mountain area

So what are your questions?

I'd recommend to read as much about PR as you can, here and on blogs etc.

Then, since this place is really different from anything you know from the USA, I'd spend a couple of weeks here before you decide to move to PR.

Thanks Gary.  The main question is re. hurricanes.  I had figured that if you are in the mountains they might not hit as badly - or cause as much damage as if you are living on the coast. Right or wrong on this?

I have been reading about PR a good bit, sadly there is little to be found in the book stores.  So, this is my first chance to talk to people who are now living in PR.  I look forward to learning as myuch as possible through this site and possibly even making a few friends, in time.

A friend who has family in PR suggested Orocovis as a place to look into, he and his family were there last month.    Do you know anything about the area?

Of course we would check out the island and way of living before we make a final decision.

Another question, I have been looking at the real estate sites on line and most of the listings shown are more like mansions then homes.  I'm wondering what the prices for houses would be in the area of Orocovis... we are not mansion people!  Just looking for a basic house.

One thing that I really wonder about, even here in the houses that have been bought by Puerto Ricans.... why are the first floor windows and porches covered with grill work?  Is it that the houses are much more open then those of us here up north?  Or is it for security?  I've never ever been able to figure this out.

Paet.............

Paet Burcham wrote:

Thanks Gary.  The main question is re. hurricanes.  I had figured that if you are in the mountains they might not hit as badly - or cause as much damage as if you are living on the coast. Right or wrong on this?

When a hurricane hits it's bad, no matter where you are.
In the mountains flooding is no problem (it is in the lower areas) but you can get a landslide. There's fallen trees and power poles everywhere. You'll be without water and power for weeks or even months.
Utilities are being restored in the cities first and smaller communities up in the mountains are at the bottom of the list.
The only storm I experienced here was tropical storm Jeanne (2004). The winds were only 70 mph and there was hardly any structural damage. Still we were without power and water for 3 or even 4 weeks (I'm in the mountains at the east coast, in a small community)

Now, the good news is that PR does not get a lot of hurricanes.
The last three storms were above mentioned Jeanne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Jeanne) and then Georges (1998) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Georges) and Hugo (1989) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Hugo)

Some people say we're in for a big one any time soon - let's see.
At least with the freely available online tools - main info comes from the NOAA: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/ - we know a couple of days in advance what might be coming.

Make sure when you buy a house here that you get a couple of big water tanks (always handy because the water supply is not reliable) and a generator (idem like above - black-outs are common).

More than 90% of the house are built with a concrete column and beam construction with concrete block for the walls. They are mostly hurricane proof. You need of course panels to close the windows (plywood or metal)
Also, make sure before the season starts that you have enough drinking water (1 gallon/person/day for at least 7 days), food in cans or otherwise spoil-proof, batteries, gas for car, chainsaw and generator. More tips to be hurricane prepared here: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/HAW2/english/intro.shtml

Keep in mind that contrary to the Gulf states, evacuation is no option here on the island - we have to ride it out at home.

Paet Burcham wrote:

A friend who has family in PR suggested Orocovis as a place to look into, he and his family were there last month.    Do you know anything about the area?

Not really but it's on my list of places to visit. It's pretty high up, so the summers won't be too hot and you might need long pants and sweat shirts around Christmas

Paet Burcham wrote:

Another question, I have been looking at the real estate sites on line and most of the listings shown are more like mansions then homes.  I'm wondering what the prices for houses would be in the area of Orocovis... we are not mansion people!  Just looking for a basic house.

Check out http://www.clasificadosonline.com
They always have thousands of real estate offers.
Here's the actual listing for Orocovis - http://www.clasificadosonline.com/UDREL … %2F+Buscar
101 ofers: houses, ranches, buiding lots.

Paet Burcham wrote:

One thing that I really wonder about, even here in the houses that have been bought by Puerto Ricans.... why are the first floor windows and porches covered with grill work?  Is it that the houses are much more open then those of us here up north?  Or is it for security?  I've never ever been able to figure this out.

Security is the reason. Things have improved lately but there are many areas where you would want to protect your house like that. (in the barrio where I live we don't need it - dead end road and everybody knows everybody)

Sorry, forgot the earthquakes.

Yes, PR is in an earthquake zone and a big one could hit any time. The problem is that quakes are unpredictable, so if and when - nobody knows.

The last big one was in 1918 and some say that statistically we're in line for a big one in the next ten years or so. Let's see.

Some info here:  http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/ … istory.php

Thanks fopr all the info Gary!  Looking at the Orocovis real estate site you gave me really gives me hope!  These prices are reasonable, infact cheaper then many stateside homes.  You give us hope!  Now we will havce toccheck out the island personally.  BTW. DH wonders what the price of petrol is?

Thanks again, you are a godsend!

Paet..............

It's my pleasure to help if I can.

Gas price? I don't really pay attention to be honest. I think it's around $ 0.70 for a liter ( $ 2.62 for a gallon) but I'll check when I'll be on the road and will let you know.

Generally speaking, prices for about everything are a little higher than in the lower 48 states. That's because almost everything is 'imported' from the mainland and transported to PR by ship.

The local gas station (Esso) had a price of $0.72/liter ( $ 2.70/gallon) today.

EDIT  That's for regular.

More questions.  In looking at the real estate ads I don't really see rain gutters on the houses.  If I need to store water - we have diverters on our gutters here in OH to save rain water in water barrels - how is it done in PR?  Do you haul in water or are there ways to collect the rain water - I know, if it is anything like the other islands of the west indies there are almost daily afternoon showers.  Do homes come with cisterns or ponds as we have in the country to have water in case of fire - they would also work, I would guess, to hold water to use as needed.
*Also, we have a gigantic supermercado near us and most of the stuff comes in "tin" containers, probably, I am presuming, due to the high humidity.  Nothing like soggy crackers and etc!  Anyways, I am very familiar with the Latino food products, we already use a lot of them.  And having been brought up by a grandmother who lived through the Depression I always keep a lot of food in cans in the basement - so that will be no problem.
*DH agrees we will buy a generator and stock up on petrol.
*Would we need guns up in the Central Mountains - either for protection or against "critters"?
*And the big question - when we would be moving he would be 61 and I would be 65.  We are "young" for our ages.  Would there be any problems with this?
*If we were to move to a town the size of Orocovis would we have people who would eventually become part of our lives - by that time I will be very fluent in Spanish - or will we end up living in isolation.  As an artist I spend a lot of time alone working but would love to have some type of social life - not bar hopping and etc. but just being able to share life with others.  It would be nice to know a few expats and visit them but I really want to get to know my neighbors and leart more about Puerto Rican culture.
*And, as far as driving, lived in NYC for a while and did drive there - on another forum here I was told that that would be a plus.  So I guess you just have to get in there and push along and try to be careful and do a lot of watching the other guy!
*Finally, we would be selling our car, or dumping it here, and buying a car in PR.  What would a well used SVU or something similar cost?  And would we have to go to San Juan to get a PR driver's license? Are there other stations?

Paet Burcham wrote:

More questions.  In looking at the real estate ads I don't really see rain gutters on the houses.  If I need to store water - we have diverters on our gutters here in OH to save rain water in water barrels - how is it done in PR?  Do you haul in water or are there ways to collect the rain water - I know, if it is anything like the other islands of the west indies there are almost daily afternoon showers.  Do homes come with cisterns or ponds as we have in the country to have water in case of fire - they would also work, I would guess, to hold water to use as needed.

Most houses have a flat roof and the rain water goes down in a couple of places through PVC pipes. It's easy to collect it.
I haven't seen a lot of places with cisterns - the rain water is pretty dirty, actually. There's quite some air pollution on this island.

Paet Burcham wrote:

*Also, we have a gigantic supermercado near us and most of the stuff comes in "tin" containers, probably, I am presuming, due to the high humidity.  Nothing like soggy crackers and etc!  Anyways, I am very familiar with the Latino food products, we already use a lot of them.  And having been brought up by a grandmother who lived through the Depression I always keep a lot of food in cans in the basement - so that will be no problem.

You'll find a lot of food that you're used to - many products are imported from the USA.

Paet Burcham wrote:

*Would we need guns up in the Central Mountains - either for protection or against "critters"?

A lot of people have guns, yes. You'd need to get a PR license before you own a gun legally. I don't know a lot about it, coming from Europe where private gun ownership hardly exists, I never owned a gun; never needed one in the 58 years I've been on this planet. OK I did learn how to shoot when I was drafted in the Dutch army, loooong ago.
There are no critters you need to protect yourself from with a gun on this island.

Paet Burcham wrote:

*And the big question - when we would be moving he would be 61 and I would be 65.  We are "young" for our ages.  Would there be any problems with this?

The older we get, the more difficult it is to adjust to changes. I've been around quite a lot but I wouldn't want to start over anywhere on this world anymore.
Starting over takes time, there's a lot to adjust to. PR is really different from the USA, not only the language, but also the culture, climate, the daily life. It's gonna take time.

Paet Burcham wrote:

*If we were to move to a town the size of Orocovis would we have people who would eventually become part of our lives - by that time I will be very fluent in Spanish - or will we end up living in isolation.  As an artist I spend a lot of time alone working but would love to have some type of social life - not bar hopping and etc. but just being able to share life with others.  It would be nice to know a few expats and visit them but I really want to get to know my neighbors and leart more about Puerto Rican culture.

I might not be easy. Although the people here generally are friendly, to really get into the social life, especially in a smaller community might be difficult. If you speak Spanish and if you don't behave as a "know-it-all-gringo" you have the best changes. It will take time, though.

Paet Burcham wrote:

*Finally, we would be selling our car, or dumping it here, and buying a car in PR.  What would a well used SVU or something similar cost?  And would we have to go to San Juan to get a PR driver's license? Are there other stations?

You can get a decent used SUV from 7, 8 Grand. Check clasificados online - http://www.clasificadosonline.com (the same site that lists the real estate).
For a driver's license check the DTOP site http://dtop.gov.pr (spanish only) There are offices all over the island where you can get your license.

Gary,

We seem to have this thread all to ourselves!
One thing for sure, I am not the know-it-all ugly Gringo type!  The way I look at it even though PR is part of the US it has a completely different culture and way of looking at things.  Probably the only State similar to PR would be Hawaii. I am interested in people and how and why they do what they do.  I am aware of certain religious beliefs and also some of the past times, like cock fighting and etc.  I have been exposed to them here where I live.  I make no judgement - they are doing their thing.  I don't expect to be invited into the religions and I don't have to go to a cock fighting match or anything similar.
From what I have seen here, PR's are basically a happy, family oriented people with a deep tradition and respect for their ancestors and heritage.  I know any group of people can have their "bad seeds" and I will have to rely on my gut feelings re that.  But I honestly think that in time I could make friends with my neighbors. When I travel I quickly pick up the accent, it just happens.  The Irish thought I was Irish, the Canadians were sure we were from Canada and while traveling with a group of Swedish friends in Florida the folk down there were sure that I was also Swedish!  I was amazed how nicely we were all treated when they thought we were all foreigners!  Am I stupid in think this way?  I basically am rather quiet and do a lot of observation and am respectful of other cultures and their people.
One of the reasons I am relearning Spanish - Latin American vs. Castillian which I learned in high school! - is so I can talk with people and not have to have somebody translate for me. One on one conversations are much better then having to deal with a translator, less chance of being misunderstood! I am also checking out the Puerto Rican version of Spanish so that I will understand much better the slang.
We've had many foreign students visit us as we try to help them adjust the the mainland US.  They are studying for Masters or PhD's and say they are fluent in English.  Most really only know the English needed for the given subject they are studying at university.  I doubt that I will ever be taken for a Puerto Rican but I know that if I come to live in PR I will have much to learn from them first and foremost.
Is this a good way to approach the setteling in process.  Would this help me to be more accessable to my neighbors?

And thanks for the info on the water barrels.  Probably should bring some type of water purification unit or tablets at least.  And ther is good old bleach and boiling the water to make it drinkable - if need be. And if the hurricane comes through and that's all to drink so be it!  I'm old enough that should I grow a third hand from water pollution it really won't matter

Thanks again, you are really helping me and making me think.

YOu are Dutch, we have something in common!  Of course my ancestors came over on probably the 2nd ship into New Amsterdam!  I'm 3rd generation Irish on my Mom's side - understand there are many PR's with Irish heritage.  interesting.......

Paet Burcham wrote:

I don't expect to be invited into the religions and I don't have to go to a cock fighting match or anything similar.

Most people here a roman catholic and I'm sure that you would be very welcome in any church.
As for cock fighting, it's not my thing. There is a big cock fighting arena close to where I live - I've never been inside.

Paet Burcham wrote:

From what I have seen here, PR's are basically a happy, family oriented people with a deep tradition and respect for their ancestors and heritage.

Absolutely! The people are very family oriented and I was accepted into the circle of my new in-laws from day one.
Where we live, in our small barrio, almost everybody is family. That can be 5th of 6th cousin but they're all cousins and when there's something to celebrate we're all there.

Paet Burcham wrote:

Would this help me to be more accessible to my neighbors?

Yup, it sounds like you have the right attitude!

Paet Burcham wrote:

And thanks for the info on the water barrels.  Probably should bring some type of water purification unit or tablets at least.  And there is good old bleach and boiling the water to make it drinkable - if need be. And if the hurricane comes through and that's all to drink so be it!  I'm old enough that should I grow a third hand from water pollution it really won't matter

No need to bring it - you can buy it here. Also, after a hurricane, the municipality is distributing drinkable water. Big tank trucks are being parked at certain spots and you can go and fill containers. As soon as things get a little better they come to all houses and fill the big tanks.
We would go to my father in law in the next village who had his water supply reinstated after 10 days or so and shower and do laundry there.
Still it's a good plan to collect some rain water for f.i. flushing the toilets and - after some filtering and a little bleach - to use for showering and laundry.
You'll know a 'cane is coming at least two days in advance so there's time to fill whatever containers/barrels/drums you have with good water.

Paet Burcham wrote:

Thanks again, you are really helping me and making me think.

It's nice talking with you.

Talking about earthquakes, we had one at 1:16 AM.
Magnitude was 5.7, the center of the quake was at the West coast, 90 miles from where I am.
I slept through it but my wife didn't and tried to wake me - which didn't work.
When I'm sleeping, I'm sleeping.
No damage here, everything is just fine.

A 5.7 earthquake would definately get my attention.  We had a short 5.2 up here about 20 years ago and it scared the hell out of all of us.  It was the first for most of us.

Main question, If I read the map right Juncos is sort of near El Yunque (sp?) and you say the west coast is 90 miles away.  Roughly, how many mile long and how many miles wide is Puerto Rico?  I was told that it was the size of our state of Conn.

Also, if living in the central mountains do we have to worry about landslides and washouts?

Thanks again for the info and glad that all is well after the "little" earthquake!

Paet

Paet Burcham wrote:

Roughly, how many mile long and how many miles wide is Puerto Rico?  I was told that it was the size of our state of Conn.

PR is 100 x 35 miles (3,515 sq mi); CT is bigger: 110 x 70 miles (5,543 sq mi)

Paet Burcham wrote:

Also, if living in the central mountains do we have to worry about landslides and washouts?

Worrying doesn't help but yes, landslides can (and do every now and then) occur after heavy rainfalls.

Thanks Gary.  Both good things to know - not worrying, just wondering. 

If the central part of PR has so few people the folk on the coastline must be stacked like cord wood!

Paet,

  Try looking at PR using Google Earth. You can get a good idea of population density. There are actually a lot of coastal areas that are sparsely populated. Just remember that up in the mountains in the central part of the country basic services such as water, electricity, phone and internet aren't nearly as reliable. You will always have power and water outages anywhere on the island. Some places are just worse than others. If it rains a lot you also might not be able to get in or out for a few days because the roads are washed out or flooded. But the views, the smells and the all consuming lushness of the surroundings not to mention the loud beautiful chorus of the coqui at night make the central mountains of PR an amazingly special place.

Gregg