Why Hungary

Why did you choose to live in Hungary? It chose me.

Has Hungary been what you expected?  No

What do you like most about Hungary? My wife and kids

What do you dislike the most about Hungary? Small minded people

Why did you choose to live in Hungary?
It was a process of elimination. I wanted to take early retirement in a country where houses are cheap. I considered Bulgaria, France, Austria, Germany, Portugal and Republic of Ireland but rejected each for various reasons.

Has Hungary been what you expected?
Yes but I myself have not been up to my own personal expectations, so I've failed Hungary, it has not failed me

What do you like most about Hungary?
The vast majority of Hungarians are decent, respectable folk, something I can sadly no longer claim for the British population.

What do you dislike the most about Hungary?
That so few Hungarians speak English in comparison to other countries like Croatia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Holland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland etc. These days most countries that have a language not widely spoken elsewhere in the world tend to use English for communicating with foreigners. I am now looking at moving from Hungary to Croatia for this reason.

Very, very interesting comments.

Belezna is near Croatia, and I assume is very rural for both countries (but correct me if I am wrong). But being there, maybe you can provide some more insight: How far into Croatia do you have to go before you find more English speakers? I assume finding English speaker is better by the sea coast, for example, but it would be very interesting to have your personal experience.

In Hungary, and in my opinion, I find in rural areas if someone speaks a foreign language (and has moderate competence) they leave for either Budapest or abroad where they probably have a brighter future (if not at least a better income). Do you (or anyone else) agree or disagree with my opinion?

fluffy2560 wrote:

Small minded people

One of the same reasons I left Switzerland. Maybe they are everywhere, and we can not avoid them.

klsallee wrote:

....Belezna is near Croatia, and I assume is very rural for both countries (but correct me if I am wrong). But being there, maybe you can provide some more insight: How far into Croatia do you have to go before you find more English speakers? I assume finding English speaker is better by the sea coast, for example, but it would be very interesting to have your personal experience.

I've worked extensively in Croatia and Serbia and I've never really found anyone who could not speak English or German. They can even speak English or German at the supermarket cashiers.  Large cities and towns, it's not a problem anywhere.  A huge amount of TV in Croatia and Serbia is shown in the original language and everyone is exposed to multiple languages continuously.  Dubbing the TV in Hungary is a huge mistake. Rather than "protecting" Hungarian culture (cf. "nationalism"),  it's creating a culture of ignorance and ignorant people. It's much easier to learn a language if they subtitle the TV rather than dubbing. All the "good" language countries like Finland, Netherlands, Sweden show original TV with subtitles.  As the country becomes richer, it's become horribly difficult now in Budapest to see original version films. They dub everything willy nilly.

klsallee wrote:

In Hungary, and in my opinion, I find in rural areas if someone speaks a foreign language (and has moderate competence) they leave for either Budapest or abroad where they probably have a brighter future (if not at least a better income). Do you (or anyone else) agree or disagree with my opinion?

There are plenty of bilingual people in the border areas anyway simply because it's about trade. They don't all leave. One experience I had was in Belgium. I found a few Flemish, French and German speaking people in Belgium speaking English to each other. They said they stopped learning each others languages 20 years ago. I found that odd. However, English is probably acceptable because it's considered neutral by all parties.

fluffy2560 wrote:

There are plenty of bilingual people in the border areas anyway simply because it's about trade. They don't all leave. One experience I had was in Belgium. I found a few Flemish, French and German speaking people in Belgium speaking English to each other.

Agree that trade is a linguistic consolidator, but those countries listed above are affluent, one might as well say rich, countries that do business on probably many levels including internationally, and English is an international language of business.

When I go to tourist locations in Hungary I always will find some staff who will speak a foreign languages, but it is more likely German than English (or Russian in a place like Hévíz), as those are the more common languages used by the tourists. After all, Austria does boarder Hungary and we get many German speaking tourists were I live, and yet almost none that speak English. I hear German often in the Restaurants and on the beach at the lake. And I often will first switch to German when speaking for business, when my Hungarian capacity is exceeded, and normally do fine. So is speaking English a benefit we simply expect because it is considered a global business language, even if it is one that is maybe not locally economically important (yet) in some parts of Hungary? Even in the required small Business courses in Hungary, German is taught much more than English (and there are maybe Austro-Hungaria historical reasons). Or is Hungary "missing the boat" by not stressing more English?

You should know when I lived in a small Alpine village in Switzerland few people there spoke English either (or at least claimed not to). So fluent English in rural areas is certainly not a given, or even something I expect. About six people spoke fluent English in my village here in Hungary. Past tense. As 3 of those left as there was no future for them here (all were under 30), while the remainder, all over 40 but one, are doing agriculture and came here specifically do that. So they are tied to the land, else they too may leave. Yet many people I know from Budapest speak English, especially the youth, so this issue I find more a countryside regional issue with the older generations than that of larger urban areas.

klsallee wrote:

.....German is taught much more than English (and there are maybe Austro-Hungaria historical reasons). Or is Hungary "missing the boat" by not stressing more English?....

Hmmmm...idling away Tuesday afternoon.....

I think it's not so much Austro-Hungarian as the Schwabisch connection with Germany itself. You might be interested to know that German language tuition is free in schools (at least here) but English must be paid for (my kids are bilingual English/Hungarian so it doesn't matter to us).  I seem to remember that I was told by someone there was a "subsidy" for German but not for English. Presumably this is somehow because the village is "German" and has a German kindergarten etc so they therefore get extra funding for the local minority or another rumour was that the German and Austrian governments pay for it.  Naturally, people want their kids to have a second language but you can see which one financially they would chose even if the advantage transferability to a worldwide context be rather less with German.  Short term thinking maybe.

On other European languages, I've met people who speak French, Spanish and Italian here but usually they speak English as well.  Never seen anyone with other languages like Mongolian, Burmese, Arabic or Turkish around here although I am sure there are some.  Bizarrely (at least to me), I was in Mongolia recently and I found two people who spoke German. One spoke English as well but not that well and the other one was in a pharmacy. Both of them were at university in East Germany.  I was told German was quite popular in Mongolia. Perhaps the Goethe Institut is working overtime there. I was also in Syria a few times (before the fighting) and I met a professor at a university and he could speak German AND Hungarian - also been to university here (and in Germany).

klsallee wrote:

Very, very interesting comments.

Belezna is near Croatia, and I assume is very rural for both countries (but correct me if I am wrong). But being there, maybe you can provide some more insight: How far into Croatia do you have to go before you find more English speakers? I assume finding English speaker is better by the sea coast, for example, but it would be very interesting to have your personal experience.

In Hungary, and in my opinion, I find in rural areas if someone speaks a foreign language (and has moderate competence) they leave for either Budapest or abroad where they probably have a brighter future (if not at least a better income). Do you (or anyone else) agree or disagree with my opinion?

It is very different to Hungary but I see Hungary as the "different" country, where people resist interaction with foreigners. Croatia is fairly typical of Europe in general in that it is fairly easy to find someone who speaks English, even in rural areas. For Example, when I went to one village to view a house I initially went to the wrong house. I spoke to a middle aged woman and showed her the photo I had printed from the website advert. She called her son who spoke English and he went with me in the car to show me the correct house, which looked very similar but was a few hundred metres down the same street. In a lot of cases when I enquire with the sellers they don't speak English themselves but can provide a friend or relative to interpret.
Even having people who speak English in shops in the cities is a major bonus compared to Hungary. I went to Koprivnika and went in Estate agents, a phone shop and an insurance office and had no problem communicating with any of them. In Nagykanizsa you would probably find nobody spoke English in any of those places.

fidobsa wrote:

She called her son who spoke English

I guess that was more or less my point. The youth are the ones who are better linguistically integrated. True everywhere in Europe. But, at least where I live in Hungary, the youth with such skills tend to leave. They have better prospects elsewhere. And they they take their language skills with them. So I am not yet convinced this is a so much an overriding cultural issue (there is of course some of that as well) as maybe a social-economic one, especially in rural Hungary.

Or to put it another way: Croatia is a new EU member state (added in 2013). Expected to join Schengen in 2015. So, in 10 years I wonder if you will find so many English speakers in rural areas of Croatia as you find today. I for one doubt it.

The thing is in Hungary only a small minority of young people speak English. If you look through the CouchSurfing members in Hungary, most of them don't even have proper profiles because they don't know enough English to fill in the form. These are mostly people in the 18 to 35 range and the fact that they join CS suggests they are interested in international travel so would benefit from knowing extra languages. Some young Croats will certainly be attracted by higher salaries in other EU countries but I think there will be enough who stay where they are.
A few people I've spoken to or exchanged emails with have said they learned English from watching films and TV programmes. In Hungary everything seems to be dubbed. I've not watched Croatia TV but perhaps they use subtitles like in UK?

fidobsa wrote:

....It is very different to Hungary but I see Hungary as the "different" country, where people resist interaction with foreigners. ..... In Nagykanizsa you would probably find nobody spoke English in any of those places.

I agree with this. Croatia is far easier to speak English than here - even in the petrol/gas stations right next to the border can manage it, down to telling you the price of fuel in English. 

I've been in Nagykanizsa a few times when driving to Zagreb. The only success I had was speaking German at the McDonalds. No-one I've interacted with down that way in HU is remotely competent in English.

klsalle wrote:

So, in 10 years I wonder if you will find so many English speakers in rural areas of Croatia as you find today. I for one doubt it.

I think there will be MORE people speaking English. Small countries always rely on trade and Croatia has a huge international industry in tourism, seafaring and very good transport links down to the Balkans.   

As an aside, the new nuclear power stations announced for Hungary by Russia will might see an surge in Russian speakers OR better English language skills. It used to be when I did business with Russian speakers we all had to have interpreters. Now educated younger Russians are skilled (and in some cases, stunningly skilled) in English.

I heard some phrases used of two groups a while back which made me think a bit:

1) Dutch people:  English is the language of business, Dutch is the language of culture.

and somewhat similarly phrased but with class distinction (maybe):

2) Hispanics in the USA:  Spanish is the language of culture, English is the language of advancement.

fidobsa wrote:

The thing is in Hungary only a small minority of young people speak English.

I don't agree. In Budapest, many youth I meet speak English. If you mean "rural" youth, then this is more true, but still not universally correct, as it very much depends where you are in in rural Hungary.

fidobsa wrote:

If you look through the CouchSurfing members in Hungary, most of them don't even have proper profiles because they don't know enough English to fill in the form.  These are mostly people in the 18 to 35 range and the fact that they join CS suggests they are interested in international travel so would benefit from knowing extra languages.

Many who want to travel abroad, basically for free, may just be desperately poor and seeking an out way from the country (they use your couch and seek a job abroad). They may not even know their language skills will work against them abroad. So, with all due respect, CouchSurfing is not exactly a web site from which to draw such conclusions. Too many variables.

fidobsa wrote:

A few people I've spoken to or exchanged emails with have said they learned English from watching films and TV programmes. In Hungary everything seems to be dubbed.

When I came to Hungary in the "last century" (kind of cool to say that), all movies I saw were subtitled. They became more commonly dubbed after Hungary joined the EU. Might we may see the same result in Croatia? And why do the youth learn English from TV? Maybe as the youth have aspiration to leave and they think this language skill will help them if not leave the country at least get a job in a large city? I don't know, without asking them directly, it is just something to think about. Expectations how another country will be in 10 years is a crystal ball hypothesis at best, especially about decisions to move there based on current language skills.

And also consider as I stated above, I lived in Switzerland, everything is dubbed. English was far less well known than I had expected when I first arrived in rural areas. And it was only beginning to be pushed in the rural gymnasiums as the "fourth" important language (after the required German, French, Italian) when I was there. Language skills will depend on the country's education programs as well.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I think there will be MORE people speaking English. Small countries always rely on trade and Croatia has a huge international industry in tourism, seafaring and very good transport links down to the Balkans.

In some areas, yes I agree. But an entire country is not a tourist destination. Geographically, there will be winners and losers both between and within countries. And I still expect many rural areas to loose their English speaking youth, who will go either abroad, or to tourist centers for work. A current and ongoing global trend.

Willing to bet token 1 Euro, I am right. Will return to this topic in a decade to see who won.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Spanish is the language of culture

This from a citizen of the country of Shakespeare???? 

P.S. I think Hungarians would say Hungarian is the language of culture..... They claim even Shakespeare is better when translated into Hungarian. 

klsallee wrote:

Willing to bet token 1 Euro, I am right. Will return to this topic in a decade to see who won.

I'll take your money.  As the economics change (i.e. bottom less pit of "F*** the EU" money), the countryside in Croatia may be more supportable work wise.

klsallee wrote:

This from a citizen of the country of Shakespeare???? 

You misread the context. I didn't mean ALL and EVERY culture, I meant their specific culture, not my or the English language culture. i.e. theirs is a Spanish speaking world. 

I'd be interested in how this works in countries with substantial minorities - e.g. say, Greeks in Australia or Koreans in ex-Russian republics. I expect the same in those examples respectively - "advancement English or Russian and culture Greek or Korean". 

But I suppose it doesn't go much further than 3rd or 4th generation when assimilation level would be very high.  I know from some countries like Philippines, everything official is done in English because there are so many other languages in use.  Same in places like Uganda. I suppose eventually it will all even out.

klsallee wrote:

P.S. I think Hungarians would say Hungarian is the language of culture..... They claim even Shakespeare is better when translated into Hungarian. 

Context. Yes, of course it's a Hungarian speaking world here. Their culture, not English speakers (although even English speaking world seems to be diverging).

Hungarians would say Shakespeare would be better but that's because it's their native language. They always tell me how "powerful" Hungarian is. Unless one is a native speaker, it's impossible to really understand all the nuances and that goes both ways.  Don't know what bilingual people (from birth) think about that. My kids are too young to give an opinion.

klsallee wrote:

When I came to Hungary in the "last century" (kind of cool to say that), all movies I saw were subtitled. They became more commonly dubbed after Hungary joined the EU. Might we may see the same result in Croatia? And why do the youth learn English from TV? Maybe as the youth have aspiration to leave and they think this language skill will help them if not leave the country at least get a job in a large city? I don't know, without asking them directly, it is just something to think about. Expectations how another country will be in 10 years is a crystal ball hypothesis at best, especially about decisions to move there based on current language skills.

Yes, it was the same when I arrived for the first time nearly 20 years ago.  Everything was subtitled. It was much easier. However, the dubbing started to get endemic perhaps early 2000s and it's continued to get worse.  I wondered if it was something to do with the size of the market, improved disposable incomes (maybe more so since joining the EU), larger cinemas with improvements in comfort etc. People tell me that there's a core of actors who do the dubbing and they don't change from movie to movie. I find the whole thing quite bizarre.

I know from other countries I've been in with a very healthy subtitling programme, skill levels are far higher in language than in countries without. I've learnt quite a bit from subtitling myself.  I even watch English language DVDs with HU subtitles on. Of course you don't  get the pronunciation but that comes later anyway.  I always learn phrases first, then read words, then progress to constructing sentences. I try to avoid learning grammar as this is a barrier to rapid but "understandable" speech.  I was told by a polyglot that you can say you are competent if you can read (and understand) a novel in a foreign language.

In Croatia, if there's a news interview on the radio, it's always in the native language, then the journalist describes what the person said. Same in Netherlands.   In the UK, they blabber over the top so you cannot hear what they are saying natively (same in Germany). Worse place is Polish TV where the dreaded "lektor" comes on and narrates the story over the actors voices. Absolutely atrocious thinking.  One thing which has improved in the UK is the use of digital TV. There, they sometimes show crime dramas in the native languages (usually from Scandanavia) and there's always been an interest in international cinema, often shown very occassionally late at night. 

klsallee wrote:

....gymnasiums as the "fourth" important language (after the required German, French, Italian) when I was there. Language skills will depend on the country's education programs as well.

When I worked in Geneva, I always got the impression that Romansch was the 4th language. Wasn't priority dependent on the dominant language in the canton?

fluffy2560 wrote:

You misread the contex

No, I was making a joke. (Ergo -- "blink smiley")

Maybe this will help further light it up:

https://ia700308.us.archive.org/29/item … ooklyn.mp3

fluffy2560 wrote:

When I worked in Geneva, I always got the impression that Romansch was the 4th language. Wasn't priority dependent on the dominant language in the canton?

There are four official languages in Switzerland. One of Romansh (for geo-political reasons). But Romansh is not "the fourth important" language in regards to the context I was referring, which was to bring students into contact with those languages used in a multinational business context (i.e. nobody uses Romansh in international business).

klsallee wrote:

No, I was making a joke. (Ergo -- "blink smiley")

Maybe this will help further light it up:

https://ia700308.us.archive.org/29/item … ooklyn.mp3

Oh, I've disabled the smileys so I couldn't see them. It just said "blink" so I didn't know it was tongue in cheek. Noted.

I can see you are busy as well. Seems like you and I are the only ones hanging about here at lunch time. My choices today was either to type here or go to the jet wash to clean my MTB.  Murphy's law obvious will apply - now the sun is out (here in Budapest anyway) perhaps if I go to the jet wash, it'll precipitate rain (haha - precipitate rain, geddit?). MTB will also just get muddy again (tomorrow) I suppose.  At least it's warming up. The snowdrops and bulbs are growing again.  It's all go.

fluffy2560 wrote:

MTB will also just get muddy again

I would say, yes.

Just came back from a walk through my vineyards to plan this year's maintenance. It seems I had to scrape a few kilograms of mud off my boots after every few steps.

fluffy2560 wrote:

precipitate rain, geddit?

 

I love a good pun.

Why did you choose to live in Hungary?
Gorgeous Budapest with ridiculously low RE prices. I say,  If you cannot get rich , then leverage your income. I also like how "Germanic" Hungarians are in their behavior compare to other E. Europeans that surround Hungary.

Has Hungary been what you expected?
It has exceeded my expectations.

What do you like most about Hungary?
Climate, wine, Budapest , our friends, geo. location, low government corruption, absence of EUR. Government resistance to EU policies.

What do you dislike the most about Hungary?
Provincialism of some politicians, I guess it is a generational issue. Poor economic policies squashing small businesses. Living too much in a past.

P.S. Have not had any major issues Speaking English in Budapest. Hungary imho, needs to look at Finland and follow it's path: European , independent, and working to its advantage with Russia.

MOHCTEP wrote:

What do you like most about Hungary?
... low government corruption, ....

You must be joking.

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

MOHCTEP wrote:

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

This is a "Corruption Perceptions Index". As an index it has a relative scale, from 0 (very corrupt) to 100 (highly clean). Hungary's overall score was 54. Which is about the middle: which is not a range one can really consider as "low corruption". A score of 70 or higher is considered entering the "low corruption" range.

Everything is relative and subjective, especially perception. 

Why did you choose to live in Hungary?
I didn't. The woman who I met on Internet and fell in love with happens to be Hungarian and from Budapest. So here I am.
Has Hungary been what you expected?
I never had any expectations.
What do you like most about Hungary?
My wife.
What do you dislike the most about Hungary?
The moronic, gorilla like thugs with shaved heads and small minds that infest the country. This country is extremely oriented towards the right. I am not of that persuasion.

Best place ever

I never really chose Hungary, my Hungarian husband did. He was born and raised in Budapest, left during the cold war years, had his fun as a young man in Europe and came over to the US where we met. He had romantic ideas of going home after being away for 40 plus years. Even he is shocked by the way many Hungarians now behave, too rough for us in many ways. Dog eat dog to the extreme. He sometimes feels like a time traveler who got stuck in a time warp. Came home but can not understand his people any longer.
We used to vacation in Hungary for up to 6 months at a time during the warmer months and enjoyed it.
Back then we worked 6 months in the US and had allot of free spending funds for nice holidays in Hungary without having to get caught up in the hassles of actually living here full time.
We stayed with family or rented vacation homes every time we  visited.
After getting close to retirement age by chance we decided to buy a flat in Budapest for an investment. At the time our only child was married to a Hungarian citizen and we thought he could take the flat over if we ever passed on or changed our minds about living in Hungary.
Well he divorced and has no interest in ever even seeing HU again. Bad marriage with bad memories for him.
The price of real estate has dropped so low in HU that we would actually loose funds if we sold and converted back to US dollars, sort of stuck in HU for now.
The up side is HU is cheap enough for us to live on SS from the US and be able to live at a comfortable level,nothing fancy but ok.
Hungary is not what we expected as things seem to have gone down hill for the working class in HU and many everyday people seem desperate and depressed around us. I hate to be around negative people, it seems to influence me too much. Hard to be happy when every time we leave our flat we see sour faces and people hitting us up for spare change.
Would love to sell out and leave HU for a warmer climate with warmer people.
We like the buildings in HU and the lakes in the summer, cheap and good food and since I have picked up a wine habit since living here, the wine is cheap enough.
Dislike, I think I have covered it already.
Back when we bought our flat HU seemed to be going forward now it is at a stand still and the economy is not looking too great, sick of seeing closed down businesses and seeing over priced and crowed tourists traps everywhere.
The lack of many people speaking English doesn't bother me at all. As long as my husband is with me, I can handle being here, if he wasn't here I would leave ASAP.
Not exactly the best place for growing old.
As long as the price of wine remains affordable, I will wait it out.
We know many Hungarians who have also moved back to HU after living for years in the US. Some have adapted and some realize you can never go home again. We don't hang much with them these days,too much of a reminder of the past to see them too often. I am the only born American in our small social group. It's all good though, bottoms up...

Marilyn, what about travel? Why not get in a car or on a train and go see what is the rest of Europe has to offer? No need to be stuck in Budapest all the time. Bad economy and sour, unemployed people, you say? Do you know what the situation is like in USA? I just moved back to EU after 20 years in Boston and NYC and I cannot forget that labor camp full of medicated "happy-people" fast enough.
I am fixing apartment in Budapest and I deal with very smart, super friendly contractor, who speaks fluent English. I know he is not the norm,  but if you look around you can find quality people for all sorts of things.

The biggest problem with Hungary for me are pickles. You cannot get good pickles if your life was dependent on it. Please stop putting sugar in pickles!

BTW, I am not Hungarian and don't speak the language.

Yes, travel around Europe is great, we have traveled all around over the years.
Went to Poland last summer to see my family still living there, dad  was born in SE Poland in the 20's. Used to be part of Hungary pre WW1.
Suppose the winter blues don't do much for any ones mood.
In the US at the moment and perhaps we are sheltered but I don't see it as being as desperate as HU is over all.
Of course I "understand" the system in the US better then in HU.
Used to live in Hawaii, more to our liking, have to work on getting back there, totally different attitude about everything there, money, relationships and life.
Life is a journey and we are still open to changes.

Why did you choose to live in Hungary? The Veterinary Course accepted me here.

Has Hungary been what you expected? No but as I didn't know an awful lot about Hungary prior to coming here I had no real expectations formed.

What do you like most about Hungary? The city is beautiful, I love walking around the streets when it is quiet and looking at the architecture. Plus the cost of living is far cheaper than home so I have a better quality of life here. I also love the fact that I can leave here once I am done, I have no job or anything like that tying me here.

What do you dislike the most about Hungary? I hate to say it but so far most of the people I have met here have been (for the most part) hostile, arrogant and down right horrible. But you meet people like this everywhere so you just take them as they are and move on with life.

I think it's a real shame that so many people go to  Budapest and think they have seen Hungary and know what Hungarians are like. It really is not like that in my part of Hungary. Most people are friendly, helpful and respectable. I'm not old enough to remember what UK was like in the '50s but I think of rural Hungary as being something like that.