English 2014

Unbelievable! is that why I meet so many so called red necks from North America.The way you think the world revolves around your way of thinking.Who gave you the English language in the first place.The North Americans just bastardised a perfectly good language. I just have giggle when I hear someone who comes from Alabama, or that big, all I hear about ".I come from Texas". the state of big steaks!
Goodonya mate! Giddyup!   All in good humour !

Come on people this yank or canack is just fishing!

I was asked by a Vietnamese student,what should I study English English Or American English,I pondered for a while and answered well if you went to buy a motorcycle and you were offered two, one a genuine Honda and the other a Chinese Honda counterfeit, which one would you choose?
He answered well the original Honda of course,then I think you have answered your question I said,why study a fake language when you can study the original, English English. 

The reason that Brits drive on the left dates back to medieval times long before America was even discovered, it's common sence  that when approaching people,either walking or on horse back to be able to see his or her right hand as most people are right handed,to pass someone on their right you could see if that someone is holding a weapon.

@Gritman - There is no doubt the English invented English but the US refined it and is continuing to do so.

Your nationalism is laudible at the olympics but perhaps putting that aside realize that the sun sets on the British Empire in a very short time these days as America has eclipsed all other countries in the world. Maybe we don't like it but that's the way it is.

Many years ago I had to choose between buying a VHS cassette player or a Beta machine. I chose the inferior VHS because that's what most people were buying (God knows why, I don't). This gave me a greater choice of movies and support. My choice was right, and the reasons right; Beta was discontinued. If the analogy is at all credible, Vietnamese need to learn American English as that's what most people speak, simple simple simple. At one time Latin was the language of choice in Britain, what ever happened to that?

Gritman wrote:

I was asked by a Vietnamese student,what should I study English English Or American English,I pondered for a while and answered well if you went to buy a motorcycle and you were offered two, one a genuine Honda and the other a Chinese Honda counterfeit, which one would you choose?
He answered well the original Honda of course,then I think you have answered your question I said,why study a fake language when you can study the original, English English. 

The reason that Brits drive on the left dates back to medieval times long before America was even discovered, it's common sence  that when approaching people,either walking or on horse back to be able to see his or her right hand as most people are right handed,to pass someone on their right you could see if that someone is holding a weapon.

Your analogy is correct. Americans retained the original form of English while the English have drastically changed their accent over the last two centuries. So essentially with your thinking, the English accent is Walmart. Glad we all agree. 

Hello, I would like to come in Vietnam in August one month as a volunteer to teach ENGLISH or FRENCH and help students or to do  activities with children. Can you give me some address of association or school where I could go. Thanks a lot Micheline

I do believe wrote:

@Gritman - There is no doubt the English invented English but the US refined it and is continuing to do so.

Your nationalism is laudible at the olympics but perhaps putting that aside realize that the sun sets on the British Empire in a very short time these days as America has eclipsed all other countries in the world. Maybe we don't like it but that's the way it is.

Many years ago I had to choose between buying a VHS cassette player or a Beta machine. I chose the inferior VHS because that's what most people were buying (God knows why, I don't). This gave me a greater choice of movies and support. My choice was right, and the reasons right; Beta was discontinued. If the analogy is at all credible, Vietnamese need to learn American English as that's what most people speak, simple simple simple. At one time Latin was the language of choice in Britain, what ever happened to that?

Bloody hell you are a pathetic little man. Americans refined English my arse. You have eclipsed oh yes you have - Mass Poverty, Unemployment, Sticking your Nose ( big as it is ) in other Countries, and on it goes.................................
Choice - a range of possibilities. Not what YOU think is the right one.
Best thing you can do is go back to your VHS, and watch a movie. That way you can save us the need to endure your continuing rubbish that comes out of your BIG MOUTH.

@bluecheer - you are a class act as well as an intellectual giant

Oh, wow, and here I was thinking that it's only the French who were delusional about their language's status in the world, but the Brits have rushed in to prove me wrong.

Like it or not, American English is the most widely-accepted form at the moment. And no, that does not include the Southern drawl... After all, Cockney is hardly British English, now is it?

Just as an anecdote: South Korea is a country that has more rigorous requirements when it comes to TEFL qualifications and no shortage of applicants. A large percentage of private schools (which are, notabene, allowed to discriminate) chooses Canadians since they have the most uniform, easy to understand accents. This is not to argue that they speak the best English, merely that they are the most likely to speak (and teach) the variant of the language that virtually all English speakers can easily understand.

Says it all.

youtube.com/watch?v=Z4Q3IUQHoX0

youtube.com/watch?v=wYmrg3owTRE

Then there was this!

I was laughing so hard


youtube.com/watch?v=uvpikUEIaLI

Yall sure enuff got the answers...lol

drew1967 bloody brilliant.

Well ssuprnova I would love to hear where you think 'cockney' is from. This is your quote "After all, Cockney is hardly British English, now is it".
Please explain to me 'Not British English' where this Language comes from then.

Dear All,

Please calm down

It would be much appreciated if you could all communicate without being unpleasant.

Personal attacks are not welcome on the forum.

Thank you,

Hasnaa
Expat.com Team

Hasnaa wrote:

Dear All,

Please calm down

It would be much appreciated if you could all communicate without being unpleasant.

Personal attacks are not welcome on the forum.

Thank you,

Hasnaa
Expat.com Team

Hasnaa - I agree with you but there are always going to be challenged individuals who can only indulge in name-calling because they are bullies. Disagreements are educational and interesting but boors are pathetic.

bluecheer wrote:

Well ssuprnova I would love to hear where you think 'cockney' is from. This is your quote "After all, Cockney is hardly British English, now is it".
Please explain to me 'Not British English' where this Language comes from then.

The point was that cockney has as much to do with proper British English as the southern drawl does with American English.

ssuprnova wrote:

bluecheer wrote:

Well ssuprnova I would love to hear where you think 'cockney' is from. This is your quote "After all, Cockney is hardly British English, now is it".
Please explain to me 'Not British English' where this Language comes from then.

The point was that cockney has as much to do with proper British English as the southern drawl does with American English.

@ssuprnova - I spent a fair bit of time in England as my ex is English (back and forth for 23 years) and it always amazed me how UK English could change from one village to another within a few miles let alone the changes in London by itself. There does seem to be a fairly common accent from the Midlands down to the South coast not including the big cities but in any case I was understood and vice-versa everywhere I went including Scotland. The accent never got in the way but vocabulary occasionally raised its ugly head.  My Canadian/American English seems to be universally understood which to me makes it the English of choice and most companies and schools would agree with that. I'm well aware that anybody not of the US or Canada would take umbrage, but you can't pander to the lowest common denominator.

Most English testing systems in the world are done by Cambridge, thats in England last time I looked.

The US-based Educational Testing Service (ETS) developed the TOEIC test to measure achievement in using English
The HCM City Economics University is one which require their students to submit international English certificates when finishing the school. Since 2009, the school decided that all the school’s graduates must have TOEIC 450-550 certificates. English language standards for six divisions of the Vietnamese tourism sector were introduced yesterday at a workshop held by the Project Management Unit of Vietnam (HRDT) and TOEIC Vietnam.

The English spoken across Canada is widely regarded as the best on the planet. In short, for TOEIC preparation students, there is no better English than Canadian English which has its roots in England English but today is similar to US English.

The English spoken across Canada is widely regarded as the best on the planet. In short, for TOEIC preparation students, there is no better English than Canadian English which has its roots in England English but today is similar to US English.

Please supply a link to back your statement.

Just a side not, all English, Canadian,American all have English roots or maybe you have some other background info we dont know.

colinoscapee wrote:

The English spoken across Canada is widely regarded as the best on the planet. In short, for TOEIC preparation students, there is no better English than Canadian English which has its roots in England English but today is similar to US English.

Please supply a link to back your statement.

Just a side not, all English, Canadian,American all have English roots or maybe you have some other background info we dont know.

Good one colinoscapee, but all I'm saying is that the demand for English in Vietnam is principally "American English." I spent years in England and Australia and love em both. Other than that I have a bias because of where I was born and raised but half of my life has been elsewhere and objectively don't care what English any expat likes or grew up with. One of the things I see on this site is Vietnamese or Viet Kieu offering to teach English but the English in their post is so obviously poor, I don't understand how they can possibly be effective teachers except to those that have no English training. I swear to God the logic gene is missing...........

I would like to come to Vietnam to teach 1 month english, can you give me some address or school names. thks a lot

Hi guys,

I'm a speech coach and I specialize in accent reduction, conversation dynamics, and vocal dynamics.

I coach my clients how to speak English clearly, confidently, and help them develop their own unique, warm, resonant Speaking voice which serves as their "vocal business card".

In my experience working with accents, American English is "easier to understand and acquire because of the relaxed articulation and the sheer familiarity of most people to American phonology or sound system due to the myriad of materials that bombard English learners on a daily basis. Also, American accent sound friendly, but matched with nasal,shrill, whiny tone, it becomes hard to listen.

British accent, on the other hand is difficult to understand and acquire.The articulation is tensed or tight, and it is particularly challenging to understand an excited British English speaker. It is the audio equivalent of watching a race car speeding at close range. Nonetheless, it is my personal choice. It sounds majestic, sexy even. In fact, if you swear in a British accent, it sounds less offending. I have had the pleasure of coaching several British and Australian-accented clients who were often misunderstood esp. by their Asian counterparts, peers, students, and customers. And after some sessions, they sounded very clear.

I have likewise worked with Indian, Chinese, Middle Eastern, Singaporean, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean accents, etc.
It became apparent to me that intelligibility or being understood is the most important thing regardless of the native accent. Before, the priority was accuracy in sounding either like an American or British. Pronunciation teachers strictly adhered to this bias. But, nowadays, reducing thick regional accents is the way to go. I always advise my non-native English speaker clients to just reduce and stick to their native accent. I even help them develop their own optimal speech style or a "hybrid accent" ,if you will, that maximizes clarity. In my case, I combined British and American accents.

Folks, if you have questions, or need coaching assistance, please feel free to PM me. Better yet contact me at 01228818606 or at speechcoachjerry@gmail.com. Thanks:)

Well Coach Jerry - thank heaven you have come because we got
Trouble, oh we got trouble,
Right here in Ho Chi Minh City!
With a capital "T"
That rhymes with "P"
And that stands for Poo,
We've surely got trouble!
Right here in Saigon City,
Right here!
Gotta figure out a way
To keep the young ones pronouncing on the best syllable!
Trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble...

CoachJerry wrote:

Hi guys,

I'm a speech coach and I specialize in accent reduction, conversation dynamics, and vocal dynamics.

I coach my clients how to speak English clearly, confidently, and help them develop their own unique, warm, resonant Speaking voice which serves as their "vocal business card".

In my experience working with accents, American English is "easier to understand and acquire because of the relaxed articulation and the sheer familiarity of most people to American phonology or sound system due to the myriad of materials that bombard English learners on a daily basis. Also, American accent sound friendly, but matched with nasal,shrill, whiny tone, it becomes hard to listen.

British accent, on the other hand is difficult to understand and acquire.The articulation is tensed or tight, and it is particularly challenging to understand an excited British English speaker. It is the audio equivalent of watching a race car speeding at close range. Nonetheless, it is my personal choice. It sounds majestic, sexy even. In fact, if you swear in a British accent, it sounds less offending. I have had the pleasure of coaching several British and Australian-accented clients who were often misunderstood esp. by their Asian counterparts, peers, students, and customers. And after some sessions, they sounded very clear.

I have likewise worked with Indian, Chinese, Middle Eastern, Singaporean, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean accents, etc.
It became apparent to me that intelligibility or being understood is the most important thing regardless of the native accent. Before, the priority was accuracy in sounding either like an American or British. Pronunciation teachers strictly adhered to this bias. But, nowadays, reducing thick regional accents is the way to go. I always advise my non-native English speaker clients to just reduce and stick to their native accent. I even help them develop their own optimal speech style or a "hybrid accent" ,if you will, that maximizes clarity. In my case, I combined British and American accents.

Folks, if you have questions, or need coaching assistance, please feel free to PM me. Thanks:)

Interesting to hear it from a pro. When I studied Mandarin Chinese, all my Chinese friends said they started out trying to learn British-English but changed to American/Canadian-English because it was much easier to understand.

Hi Bbano,

I got your PM but I couldn't reply to your msg because the PM was shutdown for new users. You can contact me instead on speechcoachjerry@gmail.com. Thanks.

Cheers,
Jerry

Well, inasmuch as I agree with your observation about the locals having pronunciation issues that make them not easy to understand when they speak, they are actually phonetically predisposed to distinguish sounds owing to the tonal nature of their language. Imagine every word has 6 tonal variations?That's awesome. Hence, it won't be difficult for them to improve their pronunciation with the help of a speech professional. By the way, ESL teachers normally focuses on what we call the "segmentals" or the speech units like vowels, consonants, syllables,etc. But, that is just the tip of the iceberg. Of course, there are many other factors to consider. The number one problem of Asians when it comes to speaking is breathing. Asian people are mostly "shallow and choppy breathers". Breathing is vital for speaking well, because our vocal organ is a "wind instrument". Many words in English are aspirated or dependent on air for clear pronunciation. I have a very effective "Accent Reduction Program" that can surely help address these issues:)

I do believe wrote:

@bluecheer - you are a class act as well as an intellectual giant

Any man from a developed country who settles in a poor developing country and brings with him nothing but his native language as his sole means of livelihood has nothing to be proud of and shouldn't be using the words "class" and "intellectual" in any discussion.

I think American English has an appropriate slang for your kind, "troll".

You forget, that any language is a form of communication. To send a message, then acknowledge that you have received it in syntax in return. its basics!. go past that,  then you are a snob.

This applies to ANY language, even computers. My point is to teach to the best of our abilities, to others a universal natural language to any race creed or colour, that gives them the tools to live in an ever changing world we live in. And that world is getting smaller. Hand on shoulder, we are all together on this very small planet.

Be awesome! who ever and where ever your are..

What a lot of nationalistic twaddle in this thread.  For heaven't sake. 

Yes American English has its origin in British English.  That was centuries ago.  Thanks to the engine of commerce (which, no, I don't endorse and am not proud of) and projection of military power (ditto * 10), and films, American English is the international standard, just as Cantonese is the international standard for Chinese despite China (where the language originated) adopting Mandarin as the standard.  This is a lot more than an accent and a few different words. 

OK, that said .. perhaps the American accent is the standard and what people here most want to learn, but that doesn't mean that Americans are the best to learn from.  Oh bedodely golly gosh no.  America has numerous regional accents (do you want to sound like a Tayuck Sayen?  No), and many Americans have extremely limited vocabularies, abuse a lot of the words they do know, and can't read their own language at the level of literacy that's the standard in the Commonwealth.  Full disclosure: I'm an American.  But I read books. 

I've read about tourists coming here trying to get teaching gigs so they can "learn" the Vietnamese English. 

So stop mixing apples and oranges.  American English may be the international standard but that in no way means that a typical American is the best man for the job.  It takes an exceptionally literate American to teach English, because not one in ten knows what a participle is or what an infinitive is.

OTOH a rural New Zealand accent isn't going to help a Vietnamese do business with the west.

Not In TPHCM wrote:

It takes an exceptionally literate American to teach English, because not one in ten knows what a participle is or what an infinitive is.

Even fewer use the phrase "Oh bedodely golly gosh". 

Thank god.

Someone else please help out Dan here.  I only take on promising pupils.

Not In TPHCM wrote:

and many Americans have extremely limited vocabularies, abuse a lot of the words they do know, and can't read their own language at the level of literacy that's the standard in the Commonwealth.

What a load of crap that is.
America is second only to Canada amongst English speaking countries in literacy rates. What makes that even more remarkable is the fact that 20-30% of the population either doesn’t speak English or it is not their native tongue.

Does the average American have horrible grammar? Absolutely. However, native speakers from all countries typically have horrible grammar. Americans do not have a lock on bad grammar. Considering that vast majority of English teachers are really only teaching pronunciation rather than English it woud behoove someone that wants to learn American English to learn from an American native speaker, British English from a British native speaker, and so on.

And contrary to popular belief it is OK to split the infinitive.

Not In TPHCM wrote:

Someone else please help out Dan here.  I only take on promising pupils.

Oh bedodely golly gosh!  You got me there!

Not In TPHCM wrote:

American English may be the international standard but that in no way means that a typical American is the best man for the job.  It takes an exceptionally literate American to teach English, because not one in ten knows what a participle is or what an infinitive is.

English is hardly a straight shot language, it's inconsistent and ever-changing. While I agree grammar from people is horrid these days, (knowing the difference between your/you're is not difficult, people...) with 12 new words being added (unofficially) each day in English, I think speaking is the most crucial aspect. One thing Vietnamese "English" teachers can do is assist with grammar because it is just text-book work.

There truly are exceptional English teachers but they would never step foot into Vietnam. Why would they when other countries offer much better pay and benefits? Perhaps if schools stop thinking about taking money and white-facing, they can get somewhere.

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

There truly are exceptional English teachers but they would never step foot into Vietnam. Why would they when other countries offer much better pay and benefits? Perhaps if schools stop thinking about taking money and white-facing, they can get somewhere.

Seems I've read something very similar before on other thread.
And what on Earth is "white-facing"?

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

English is hardly a straight shot language, it's inconsistent and ever-changing. While I agree grammar from people is horrid these days, (knowing the difference between your/you're is not difficult, people...) with 12 new words being added (unofficially) each day in English, I think speaking is the most crucial aspect. One thing Vietnamese "English" teachers can do is assist with grammar because it is just text-book work.

There truly are exceptional English teachers but they would never step foot into Vietnam. Why would they when other countries offer much better pay and benefits? Perhaps if schools stop thinking about taking money and white-facing, they can get somewhere.

Hmmm.  I suspect that most of what you call "change" I would call "corruption."  The growing confusion of nouns and verbs, the confusion of meaning, the neologisms in the mouths of the semiliterate.  "Irregardless" isn't a word but you'll see it in the most esteemed newspapers; "unique" is a binary condition but most people think it means "distinctive" now and stick "very" in front of it ("somewhat dead"; "a little pregnant" make as much sense).  Sometimes I need to just leave the discussion and go for a walk. 

I hope nobody is moving to VN to teach English as a career move, because that means getting paid at local wages with a little boost to lend credulity to the school by having a Caucasian face and a foreign name.  I hope that the decision to move here was primary and teaching English secondary, because the other way around connotes a level of desperation in one's home country that's pretty grim to contemplate.  Quite possible, though, Things Are Bad All Over. 

Anyway.  English grammar is really hard.  We don't have complex declension like German and Russian and our conjugations are simple, but English has a wide swath of tenses where VNese only has đã, vừa, ... sẽ, very hard to explain, and we have that inane extra "do" that we all know exactly when to use but which has no clear rule one can explain.

For us to learn Vietnamese presents "only" the challenges of pronunciation and figuring out which pronouns to use based on an all but ineluctable combination of age, family relationship and rank; the other way around, the challenges are more numerous but based on success rates learning Vietnamese, especially the southern dialect, English, with all its complexity, may very well be easier.  As long as the diacritics are there and there's no slang or textspeak (HOW many abbreviations do you really need for không?), I can read pretty much everything, yet understanding speech remains elusive and I'm my third extended hiatus-borne-of-frustration and haven't cracked a book since before Tết.

Not In TPHCM wrote:

"unique" is a binary condition but most people think it means "distinctive" now and stick "very" in front of it ("somewhat dead"; "a little pregnant" make as much sense).

That is only one of several different meanings to the word. Depending on what you are talking about putting "very" before unique is grammatically correct. For example; Chris Fox is a very unique fellow. That sentence is grammatically correct. The word unique in this instance means unusual.

"Unique" means "singular," not "distinctive."  Like the 1873-CC American dime with no arrows. I'm sure you can find some online dictionary that has takes up the incorrect usage by the unlettered but then again you can find some source online that supports anything you want to believe, so, who cares.

Why don't you stick with things you know about, whatever they might be.  Based on the evidence I'd say I have at least a hundred times clearer grasp of the English language than you do.