Is it this hard finding good apartments right now?

It all comes down to personal circumstances, for a single person living on their own, the difference between the Residential and Domestic rates might not be that much, not enough to want to risk your deposit even more. Although it depends how much your deposit is, €300 or €1500. But for a family of 4 or 5, it's essential to get the Residential rate, the price difference would be huge. I'm sure I heard a story a while ago of somebody who had overpaid by more than €2000 over the space of a few years, because they had a large family and were incorrectly on the Domestic rate.

If you only sign a 6-month contract and do go behind the landlord's back to sign Form H, the chances of being allowed to extend your contract would probably be significantly reduced too. Maybe another thing to consider.

It's a crazy situation, and sadly, probably one that hundreds of people have absolutely no idea about after arriving here. I've never heard of another country with a system like this.

The joys of living with a bunch of tax-dodgers!!

well as much as i agree with your words  it  might become that way  -but in all honesty why should you as HIS tenant be punished for his greed.. by paying considerably more than he does in his primary residence.... to be fair if the powers that be had any sense at all they would dismiss the "domestic" tariff completely and simply use one tariff thats applicable to every property.... and this chaos wouldnt exist

sad but true its a crazy situation to get caught in on the friendly isle - where the well known generosity is only outweighed by their cunning and greed.

redmik wrote:

I also think that unfortunately life would become very difficult for the tenant if they chose to take that line of action, very difficult indeed.

so having exhausted all reasonable avenues to obtain the correct residential tariff with the LL permission and he still refuses - would you just sit back and accept it pay considerably  more or do something about it..... no matter what....and in all honesty the deposit is in many cases already spent and lost..... 

its all well and good to say do your homework as many do but not everyone is the same... its important to try to do so but not everyone can or is that way inclined... many get caught by this scam - only to find out by the production of a massive bill at the end of 6 or 12months despite thinking the monthly payment they make as agreed by contract is massively out of synch with reality  - then reality bites HARD.... WHY because the LL has been more than dishonest  - he has been deceitful and is also cheating the tax man and other law abiding tax payers  - including his own countrymen too.

They've just reduced the rates for businesses here, not before time, so who knows. They had to get rid of the two-tier bus prices, although only after a lot of effort and outside influence.

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi … lls.562165

On An Island wrote:

They've just reduced the rates for businesses here, not before time, so who knows. They had to get rid of the two-tier bus prices, although only after a lot of effort and outside influence.

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi … lls.562165

it will be very interesting to see if those tenants who rent from a private letting company (and many exist on Malta) who deploy their own rates for utilities  - see a reduction in their utility bills as these letting agents loosely use the business tariff as a base for their charges to tenants....

Completely agree Toon, I personally would never sign a rental contract if the landlord refused to sign form H, and I would urge everybody else to do the same. It's the only way to get them to change, if they can't find anyone to rent their properties, they would soon have to rethink things.

Unfortunately there are more than enough people who come here who have no idea about the scheme, enough people arriving who they can still rip off.

Toon wrote:

it will be very interesting to see if those tenants who rent from a private letting company (and many exist on Malta) who deploy their own rates for utilities  - see a reduction in their utility bills as these letting agents loosely use the business tariff as a base for their charges to tenants....

The people who get a home-made, hand-written electricity bill every 3 months!!

You would have to be mad to go along with that. There are people who do though. 

yes am afraid you are correct On an island.

and they know newbies are like buses  - there will be another one along any minute - well  maybe not a maltese bus lol

"Hello, I'm looking for an apartment to rent."

Step right this way!!

Toon wrote:

redmik wrote:

I also think that unfortunately life would become very difficult for the tenant if they chose to take that line of action, very difficult indeed.

so having exhausted all reasonable avenues to obtain the correct residential tariff with the LL permission and he still refuses - would you just sit back and accept it pay considerably  more or do something about it..... no matter what....and in all honesty the deposit is in many cases already spent and lost.....  its all well and good to say do your homework as many do but not everyone is the same... its important to try to do so but not everyone can or is that way inclined... many get caught by this scam - only to find out by the production of a massive bill at the end of 6 or 12months despite thinking the monthly payment they make as agreed by contract is massively out of synch with reality  - then reality bites HARD.... WHY because the LL has been more than dishonest  - he has been deceitful and is also cheating the tax man and other law abiding tax payers  - including his own countrymen too.

I have the impression that you think I am condoning this behaviour by the landlords. I do not, far from it.
It is criminal; both figuratively and literally.
I am however, being realistic.
Just don't sign the contract unless the landlord is willing.
Walk away, there are plenty of others to choose from.

no far from it Redmik just asking what you think! and what you would do.

i still believe as you do  - no signature on the form  - walk away simple as  - its hard but there are good guys out there  - just dont be brow beaten into signing contract you dont want.

In fact i go one step further and have always asked for extras to be included in the contract for my safety and to cover unseen financial impacts-- no agreement or compromise  - NO SIGNATURE .....AND I WALK

On An Island wrote:

Completely agree Toon, I personally would never sign a rental contract if the landlord refused to sign form H, and I would urge everybody else to do the same. It's the only way to get them to change, if they can't find anyone to rent their properties, they would soon have to rethink things.

Unfortunately there are more than enough people who come here who have no idea about the scheme, enough people arriving who they can still rip off.

I dont feel like I have much of an option. It's been really hard to find a good apartment and unfortunately now that I did he refuses the form.

He also want 80 euros deposit every month for water and electricity. What's the downside of this? I don't feel like I can say no.

Hi, just my 4pence worth... How about re-negotiating the rental amount per month downwards to compensate for the fact LL won't sign Form H. Now I'm no expert but this topic is giving me serious jitters as I'll soon be moving to Malta myself & am dreading this seedy aspect of the move!  I was just curious to see if you could guesstimate the difference in €€€ between residential & domestic rate for that particular apartment you're interested in. I gather you need to take into account how many of you will be living in the apartment chosen as well.

Now if it was say (hypothetically) difference of €100 per month  then get LL to drop his rent by that much. Am I being too simplistic/naive here? I realise this is technically not legal re: tax evasion issue on part of LL but it might just be a solution.

I have a gut feeling that the rental situation will be sorted as it can't go on, so if you can't get the LL to sign the form H then you either walk away or get him/her to negotiate.
There is a bigger thing though that makes me jitter and thats if the conservatives get back in here in the UK then they are talking about a referendum on europe and its a simple IN or OUT
If this happens and its OUT what happens to the Europe-Malta agreements?
Will UK residents be treated differently and need visa's etc, I have a contact on Malta who is from the states and is having real difficulty with Visa's and the cost of visa's

In the last few years I have been averaging about €90 a month for water and electricity, that's for a single person. I have been on the cheaper Residential rate, I do use a dehumidifier a lot, especially in the winter, and A/C quite a lot in the summer months, but with solar panels, I have almost never had to pay for hot water.

According to the Enemalta website, for the Domestic rate electricity is about 30% more expensive and water 55% more. But on the Domestic rate you also won't be eligible for the eco reductions. So I would say at least 50% more, but potentially even higher than that.

More info here -

http://www.enemalta.com.mt/index.aspx?c … amp;art1=9

http://maltatenantsupport.weebly.com/bl … hree-rates

€90 a month is €1080 a year, so you would probably be paying at least €500 more every year by not being on the correct tariff. Call it €50 a month. If you want to try what Wanderlust1 suggested and negotiate with your landlord for a reduction in the rent, that might give you a rough idea where to start.

Obviously for a family of 4 or 5, the differences would be much, much greater.

g4jnw wrote:

There is a bigger thing though that makes me jitter and thats if the conservatives get back in here in the UK then they are talking about a referendum on europe and its a simple IN or OUT
If this happens and its OUT what happens to the Europe-Malta agreements?

I can't see this happening, firstly I don't think the Tories will get a majority, although a Tory - UKIP coalition can't be ruled out. But even if there was a referendum, I can't see the people voting to pull out of the EU. And if we do, you wont be alone, there are about a couple of million Brits living as expats in the EU.

On An Island wrote:

In the last few years I have been averaging about €90 a month for water and electricity, that's for a single person. I have been on the cheaper Residential rate, I do use a dehumidifier a lot, especially in the winter, and A/C quite a lot in the summer months, but with solar panels, I have almost never had to pay for hot water.

According to the Enemalta website, for the Domestic rate electricity is about 30% more expensive and water 55% more. But on the Domestic rate you also won't be eligible for the eco reductions. So I would say at least 50% more, but potentially even higher than that.

More info here -

http://www.enemalta.com.mt/index.aspx?c … amp;art1=9

http://maltatenantsupport.weebly.com/bl … hree-rates

€90 a month is €1080 a year, so you would probably be paying at least €500 more every year by not being on the correct tariff. Call it €50 a month. If you want to try what Wanderlust1 suggested and negotiate with your landlord for a reduction in the rent, that might give you a rough idea where to start.

Obviously for a family of 4 or 5, the differences would be much, much greater.

i dont have solar panels and the most i have paid for water and electric a month is 40-50 euro and that was when they had read the meter  the rest of the time its between 20-30 euros a month -thought my landlord shows us the bill and we pay it ... id like to think being a policeman hes of decent character but im not that naive lol .

robpw2 wrote:

i dont have solar panels and the most i have paid for water and electric a month is 40-50 euro and that was when they had read the meter  the rest of the time its between 20-30 euros a month

For sure it's possible to pay a lot less than I do, I was just trying to give Wrongholebutherewego some rough figures, his potential landlord wants a monthly payment of roughly what I have been consuming,

I could easily half my bill by never turning on the A/C in the summer, but I like my basic comforts in life. And if I did that then I would turn into an even grumpier old bugger than I already am. If that's possible, I am morphing into Victor Meldrew more each day.

in my opinion walk away....

this will bite you in the bum big time - how do you know what the bill will be in 6 or 12 months time - you are assuming that what you pay will cover your usage at the rates he tells you - be warned we have come across people with monsterous bills and i mean thousands because they were duped..... - check out the arms calculator and do the maths with realistic consumptions per person -  everyone is different.... shouldnt be but they are  - some LLs apply there own rate (especially relevant if renting through a private letting agency / company) and calculate that way others use the non residential rate (designed for business) others use residential at 0 consumers rates and believe me the result can be catastrophic and very stressful when you do find out and realise what you should be paying - so be warned

I absolutely urge you NOT to go with this, for all the reasons mentioned by Toon.

I absolutely urge you NOT to go with this, for all the reasons mentioned by Toon.

Toon wrote:

in my opinion walk away....

this will bite you in the bum big time - how do you know what the bill will be in 6 or 12 months time - you are assuming that what you pay will cover your usage at the rates he tells you - be warned we have come across people with monsterous bills and i mean thousands because they were duped..... - check out the arms calculator and do the maths with realistic consumptions per person -  everyone is different.... shouldnt be but they are  - some LLs apply there own rate (especially relevant if renting through a private letting agency / company) and calculate that way others use the non residential rate (designed for business) others use residential at 0 consumers rates and believe me the result can be catastrophic and very stressful when you do find out and realise what you should be paying - so be warned

I dont understand, sorry. He is telling me he will give me a copy of the bill every month. How could he rip me off by doing that?

The landlord is a company. I have no idea what company but they have several buildings.

The apartment I'm renting is a 1room 80sqm modern penthouse with views over the harbour and all of Valletta. The price was 750 but I'll get it for 700. It's in Silema but on the border of gzira.

I've had a super tough time even finding properties to look at and I really need to move. Do you really think I should walk away from this? I can't imagine finding anything better.

I would certainly take Toon & Redmik's advise, I have met them both and their advise is worth its weight in gold.

is the bill the LL is to give you their own bill (private letting companies usually produce their own and theyre not the Arms rates by a long way and considerably more expensiive i.e 35-38c per unit as opposed to 10-16c per unit) or one direct from arms (two pages)?

all i can say at this juncture is take it at your own risk... but it will be painful of that am sure.

Oh dear, how could he defraud you? In several different ways. And, do not expect any legal backing or restitution at all.

if its an arms bill take note of the scheme for billing in the top right hand corner about a third of the way down the bill if it says number of registered consumers = 0 - run like hell unless he is prepared to sign form H - (sadly for you to find this out now you will have had to accept the contract an if you ask for a copy of an old bill now there very likely not to oblige and believe me he wont  - as theyre not allowed to as a company.. they used to be able to but have had that path denied  as of a couple of months ago.

remember there is NO PROTECTION IN MALTA FOR TENANTs neither in law or regulatory

Can you please explain further? Is my only option for him to sign the arms h form?

The rental situation here is insane guys. I feel like I will never find a place if I give up this one.

I do not know if he will giver arms recite but I can find out. If it's arms recite then is it ok?

Also I can send pictures of the apartment if You send me your phone number. The agent sent me a pdf file with pictures yesterday.

But what does it matter if I pay 100 eur utilities instead of 50 every month?

I'd probably pay 800 rent for this penthouse and I'm getting it for 700.

pictures mean nothing.....

even if its an arms bill you can still be ripped off big time

in normal circumstances you have to either be the account holder which they are unlikely to allow or named as a regstered consumer which from H allows providing he allows it but they cant even do that as a private letting company

Penthouses are ovens in summer and freezers in winter your bill for AC heating or AC cooling will be mega... believe me ive been there...

Toon wrote:

pictures mean nothing.....

even if its an arms bill you can still be ripped off big time

in normal circumstances you have to either be the account holder which they are unlikely to allow or named as a regstered consumer which from H allows providing he allows it but they cant even do that as a private letting company

So basically what you are saying is don't rent from companies because they will rip you off?

I mean, I have nowhere to live. I will end up in some crap apartment  I'm gonna be depressed in if I turn this down. I'm even having trouble seeing apartments damnit cuz agents call in sick and whatever excuse they have. I've tried hard for a week and found nothing. I look at malta park everyday and it's a really bad selection. Every agent tells me the market is really bad.

Toon wrote:

Penthouses are ovens in summer and freezers in winter your bill for AC heating or AC cooling will be mega... believe me ive been there...

I know that, it's no problem.

its your choice my friend

good luck

have you tried quicklets?
are you sure that your agents are honest and telling you the real rental sector story.

renting from letting companies is the worst route you can possibly take... in my opinion of 6yrs living in Malta - ive seen and witnessed the horror stories

Toon wrote:

its your choice my friend

good luck

have you tried quicklets?
are you sure that your agents are honest and telling you the real rental sector story.

Yes I tried quick lets and they were disappointing. Kyle promised we would go and see an apartment then he had an excuse and said next day and he never returned to me. I wrote back to him yesterday morning and he hasn't replied yet.

I'm really upset because they are all crap. The situation is getting insane.

I had a Swedish agent I met and he seemed like a really good guy. He showed me this apartment.

Sorry if my English is bad etc but I'm stressed out and about to break.

Can you please be more specific and tell me how they could rip me off?

but we have told you.... how they can and will rip you off