Western woman in Saudi

The truth is that it is difficult for the western and european women here. It is not like you have been used.
There are a lot of restrictions you have to follow. And mainly you cannot walk around without wearing an abaya. (The black dress that covers all of your body).
I beilieve one you can get used to it and find some friends you will think it is not so difficult.
If you need more details just ask me and if I know I will be glad to answer.
By the way, what is the purpose for moving in Saudi?

Take it easy. It's not that bad as it sounds, trust me!

The idea is to make some nice selected friends to hang out with, over the weekends that is. Weekdays you will be busy anyway.

Travelling to Dubai, Bahrain about once a month with friends will be fun.

hi

i happen to see your post ....dont stress ....saudi arabia is one of the places where a women gets the most amount of respect.........in the west the more they commercialize women the more they feel they honouring them...here women are treated like pearls ....also this is one of the safest countries in the world .......u can fo for walks ( although it gets abit hot ) nobody will touch you....neccessaties ( food , daily use items ) are relatively cheap...u need to buy from major supermarkets , even the corner cafes ( called bakaalas ) are cheap....internet is good and cheap...cell phones and calls are also quite reasonable
in a nutshell if you respect the law and culture , you will live happily
i dont know what work you going to be doing...but remember the fact that men are not suppose to mix freely with women , is not to degrade women , but rather to show them respect and honour...that goes for the dressing as well...it is to keep a women sacred ...because women are sacred and are not objects for all to "abuse" and use as tools for buisness and pleasure...if you got kids ...theres lovely parks etc...malls are smart  and streets are clean..
i hope that helped you

Thank you aajeena. That is what I believe. I am now looking forward to my stay.

you welcome

I would have to disagree on the part where women are treated like pearls in Saudi. When they are forced to cover up is because they are perceived as objects by men and they don't have anything to offer but their sexuality. There is no justification for taking a women's simple rights such as driving or forcing her to dress a certain way other than unnecessary control and judgement.

How much I agree with @ freespirit1, what I have seen in the short period of stay here is that women in the core circle like mother, sister, daughter, wife may be treated as pearls, but as soon as the circle widens or opens up, the women are just treated as SEX objects. Staring at your face is the best hobby of these young shababs.

," is not to degrade women , but rather to show them respect and honour... to keep them sacred" Clearly some women know not of this concept of modesty. furthermore do not honor themselves and want to exploit their sexuality, and walk around naked (or nearly there) to be seen and given attention, maybe this is only due to knowing that this is the only value they hold. you do not get to reveal everything and then blame the people for looking. thats like setting a place on fire and blaming it for burning down.

but, to bring some factual information into the post, this country, saudi arabia, is run on islamic values and sharia Law. and in the Quran it is clearly stated that the woman is to draw her cloak over her body as to NOT be annoyed (by those evil men with evil desires)  --

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(  Chapter #33, Verse #59)-

so no, it is not the men of saudi view women as their intimate partners, it is men of all creation and the way God created them. it would be slightly delusional to think that western men do not desire women, they desire her so much they want her for free (fornication) and she is open to anyone (free game for all). In islam these lewd acts are minimized by woman having to cover not because saudi told her so, but because her Creator, ordered her to and this is for her own ease as not to be annoyed. Additionally, she is valued firstly by becoming a honorable wife and having to be provided for and cared before she has becomes intimate. IN the states, where i'm from, you go to dinner and the man thinks he has earned a night with the woman. While the woman should cover, men are also responsible for their actions and restricting their desires by not engaging in talks and looks with the women.

Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts). That is purer for them. Verily, Allah is All-Aware of what they do. ( Chapter #24, Verse #30)

so to bring this into context of saudi arabia, these are the morals and principles this country is built upon, that is why there is no free mixing and no free strutting of bodies.

That was really informative @ rareshine, I agree with you on most part of what you said. Also agree that the law of land requires that.

But I disagree for both the extremes where you completely open up and where you are completely covered with black clothing. Maintaining the balance Inbetween is the key.

mariem. the black thing is also known to have been worn by the women of the times of the prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him. but no, you're right, it isn't a must for the covering to be complete that it is all black. there are conditions to be met for the covering, but black is not one of them. just to point out, that there is a rule for men and what they have to cover as well. clearly it isn't as extensive as what the woman should wear. honestly, while i have met some weirdos here and in the states, i find that men are men everywhere, and the more you give them the more they take. give em nothing and send them on their merry way (of course, they are those that are perfect gentlemen, and i solute them. )

I'm finding it disgusting to read posts in this thread....*unsubscribed*

Here is reality for you:

For the women who are all "worried" pls don't come to KSA...u r better off where u are...I've been gazing at your profile pics for past 45 mins and all I have to say is Mashallah, I'd be jealous if my fellow shabbab would be doing that, actually we would team up and harass you...ah good ol'times....meanwhile my agenda for later tonight is to make sure I go home and lock up my sister so she doesn't go out with her friends for dinner which she has been doing for the past decade or so...

@ Hamudi - don't be offended with what has been said. Just take the hypothetical scenario and reverse the situation, the girl from KSA, who has been living all her life covered with veil, is supposed to move to USA/Europe and then there is a strict law that she can't wear veil anymore, won't she be afraid or scared of doing that. Same is the situation for the women who come here from open countries. I guess only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches. And what you are saying must be correct for the local females, but just ask the expat females and I'm sure 99% of them will have the same views.
And it's not about staying where we are. I would have loved to stay where I was, but unfortunately that's not the case.

hamudi wrote:

U all hear terrible things but once you land and make the money no one complaints. Travels to dubai on weekends and what not.

What is worrying u? Freedom? Drive? Someone sexually assaulting u?

Well I can tell about myself and I'm not here to make any money and YES that really worries me what you have said. And everyone doesn't travel to Dubai on weekends. May be people with silver spoon do.

Well if your worried
And you don't like the things u hear..why are you coming here if not for money

LOL  . I really did laugh out loud on the sarcasm of that post but its good to see his side of this, yes because "his kind" his "shabbab" is are is being blatantly accused here of being the lowest of the low. it's stupid and very generalized. In reality its a very marginalized few, who I can't stand and freak me out.

anyway mariem, maybe its time to look at those "open" countries and start blaming them for the indecencies they have been allowing their citizens to commit.

hi all

respected @merriam88
firstly i disagree 100 percent with your statement ....how can you generalize that 99 percent feel the same ...you havent asked 99 percent of them....women love this country ...thats why more and more and more and more and more keep coming ....money , safety , respect , honour dignity is all upheld here

with regards to so called  discrimanation or disrespect against women lets see where saudi arabia stands percentage wise

we only going to list crimes against women below ( although it happens to all humans even animals in some countries )
                                                                                                                      other countries                               saudi
rape
alchol abuse by women
alcohol abuse which results in men beating women
alcohol abuse which results in men beating young girls
alcohol abuse which results in women beating children
alcohol abuse which results in men raping women and young girls
alcohol abuse which results in women stealing and suicide
drug abuse
wife battering
wife beating
forced sex after smoking variuos drugs on wifes and daughters
infidelity
fornication
adultry
incest
sodomy
harrasment at work
racial discrimanation
women being subjected to sex for promotion
manager / boss harrasing female employees
women harrasted while walking down the road
hand bag snatching
hijacking women
women subjected to lewd remarks by men all over in public places
prostitution
selling of young girls as sex slaves
drug abuse
drugging young girls
teen pregnancies
teen rape
abortion as a result of rape
abortion as a result of teen consentual sex
abortion as a result of drug abuse
women throwing away new borns
safety for single women
security for single women
women pawned in night clubs
women drugged in night clubs'
aids
women commercialized
women physically abused by husbans
daughters physically abused by fathers
kidnapping and selling of young girls
women turned into drug mules forcefully
police pinning young girls to the ground physically
general police brutality on women
women turned into gamblers systematically enticed through the system
girls made to feel ( belittled and disgraced ) for being virgins
women and girls harrased in colledges by fellow students
( raped, belittled even abused ) in places of education
women turned into gang slaves..
promoting of sex slaves vie media
computer games for young girls that promote sever violence
suicide among women
overdose
rave clubs that target turning women into pleasure tools by paying them
organ trafiicking of women

..............................................................


my list can go on and on and on and on ,

you put in the percentages , while i relax tonight outside on my mat while my kids play on the street untill wee hours of the morning ... while my wife shops freely untill late at night without any fear of being harrased , raped etc etc etc
while my young daughte caan take a walk on the street without a panic alarm button , or without being approached by drug dealers or whistled at or mocked at etc etc etc
you carry on researching the percentages tomorrow morning , while i buy fresh cooked breakfast for under a dollar for my entire family

regards

btw .....pearls are not thrown around to be stolen or damaged ..pearls are kept safe and close by and are cared for ...than they remain beutiful and valuable

so in a nutshell @freespirit1 , if you want to live happily respect the law of the land here , because those in charge really try their best to uphold it and make it safe for all....that is true freedom

bye

real

karen carpenter wrote:

Well if your worried
And you don't like the things u hear..why are you coming here if not for money

lol it's a futile discussion now. I'm here working at home

Thanks Aajeena, you really opened my eyes and now I'm in love with KSA. 

u welcome

actually while i was typing my own eyes opened 

anyway on a lighter note .......does anybody know of a forum or website where i can market my new found hobby

calling international cheap cheap , and having local country numbers working here

From my point of view,  each country has its own culture,  and every community has its advantages and disadvantages.
I am working in Saudi for 9 years so far,  Riyadh then Jeddah and now Khobar, I contacted bad persons and good ones as well,  this is the life,  you will never be able to chose what you want and leave what you do not want,  each one of us has his own decision to leave but we are happy with the outcomes of working in Saudi.

Best Regards

Ahmed

I think like EVERY country, it has its own ideologies and methodologies, you can't come here with a "western mentality"... Trying to change things. I'm western.. But I'm also a MUSLIM first, so covering my body and hair isn't an issue for me..If it is, then maybe You must stay in my western country that can't benefit you, forcing you to branch out and seek a life in another's country... Respect the laws of the land.. 1st rule of traveling.. Secondly respect yourself.. Guys hit on you wherever you are in the world..

I learned a precious lesson about living abroad. When traveling, I treat everyone respectfully and never criticize anything I see, I take no personal chances and behave myself wisely, I cause no problems with anyone, I always imagine the country I'm staying in as an airplane or as a train so I always act like an extra crew member.

freespirit1 wrote:

I've heard terrible things about this country especially for women. I'm not too enthusiastic about it but I am curious and that's what's pushing me to go through with it

You should come with an open mind for the experience. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. If you don't like it here it will only toughen you for chalenges in future.

great, welcome

aajeena.... if you believe that none of the crimes that you listed happen in Saudi, then you are extremely naive. Saudi is a relatively safe country, but its not utopia.

People have to remember that Saudi is the size of Europe, therefore you will get vastly different answers relating to the same questions depending on if you live in Jeddah, Riyadh or Abha.

Come with an open mind and a sense of humour, then you will most likely love the place.

What abou the life outside of compound in Jeddah?
I am going to move to saudi with my husband next year because of his work.
We might not live in compound because of the high rent(maybe it's very expensvie?)
is the life outside of compound of women very bad?
If i don't cover my hair , will police arrest me? I don't mind if people look at me with surprise.

look at your with surprise? what do you ever mean? there's tons of westerners here, you wont be the first or the last. You dont have to cover but you  can be approached by haia and asked to cover it.

life outside compound bad? huh

Jeddah is comparatively liberal. I have never asked to cover my hair.

You might miss driving, the convenience and the freedom that brings. But you wouldn't want to drive here anyway.

The prayer times is a bit of a pain. You need to plan your day well so to fit in the prayer times or you would spend a lot of time waiting.

I am lucky I can stay in the compound and I can have days and times that are abaya-free outside the house. But it's alright to stay outside compound as well. Abaya is something  you will need to get used to and keep on complaining about.

It's not that bad here. People are friendly. When you do come, plan some travelling around, see it as an experience to open your eyes. After all, it's not easy to travel to Saudi Arabia if you are not Muslims. So I recommend to embrace what life gives you and enjoy. .

yiyi99hx wrote:

What abou the life outside of compound in Jeddah?
I am going to move to saudi with my husband next year because of his work.
We might not live in compound because of the high rent(maybe it's very expensvie?)
is the life outside of compound of women very bad?
If i don't cover my hair , will police arrest me? I don't mind if people look at me with surprise.

Pls come to Jeddah. I wanna rook at you all time with sulplice

i feel so bad for the people that find prayer time to be a pain, having no connection to the Creator. it was a pain the states having to go all day long with no stop, like a machine just trying to compete in the worldly affairs. TALK ABOUT PAAAAIN

First, for the one who teases about someone else's accent or usage of English, shame on you.

For the one who complains about other's complain, just an information to tell that I do believe in Creator and I do pray and have rest during the day to clear my mind and thoughts. I don't need the prayer time to tell me when to stop and rest. Some people might need it. Some people find it a pain.

sorry, your comment wasn't clear. anyway. my point is that what you find a pain, i find a blessing. your opinion is yours, mine is mine and since you feel you have the right to voice yours, be sure that you will hear the other side as well.

Hi! Are you in Saudi now? If not then I would say please don'don't worry too much about anything. It'It's bebeat to cover your head if you'you're anywhere apart from Jeddah or Riyadh. I live in Tabuk, a very rural area, and it is a must. But you get used to it quickly, and actually means I can be lazy with my hair and clothing (great on very hot days when I 'm running to the shops for some food). I would advise making friends and joining groups to socialise or you might at art going stir crazy! Oh, and get a driver if you can!

All that being said, I feel wonderfully safe here and am treated well as a single woman.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask, even once you've arrived!
Kat

i just love positive and adroit people.! they're amazing to be around and I  can learn so much from them! welcome hardyharhar

booksale wrote:

First, for the one who teases about someone else's accent or usage of English, shame on you.

For the one who complains about other's complain, just an information to tell that I do believe in Creator and I do pray and have rest during the day to clear my mind and thoughts. I don't need the prayer time to tell me when to stop and rest. Some people might need it. Some people find it a pain.

Second, for those who complain about prayer times and disrespect other culture/religion . Shame on them...

You know when you just have to say something and no matter how hard you try not to ...well here it is lol....
As a western woman who is moving to KSA I find it incredible how many women bring up the wearing of an abaya or head scarf as a negative or think that it is going to affect their life in KSA. When your biggest question is "will I have to wear it" then i would suggest you haven't done your research and quite frankly if that is your biggest fear about life in KSA then you really have no worries at all! No matter what country in life, whether it be work, education, or recreation there are rules and dress codes...do you complain about wearing a hard hat for safety, wearing a suit for work, uniform for work or education? Do you complain about having to dress up in your glad rags when invited to a 'posh do" that requires it? No you do it because it is expected and a mark of respect as you are not going to turn up in your jogger bottoms and a football shirt....I think the abaya is no different, it is the culture, it is respectful and when you are a visitor in another country then you learn the rules and abide by them.  If you can't then you have no right to go there. Enjoy the anonymity and freedom it brings, rather that than to stand out like a sore thumb!
Next rant lol...so as a woman you can't drive!
Huge sigh of relief. I love driving and cover a lot of miles a year but would I drive in KSA? Not on your nelly, I've seen how they drive, I've read the statistics and quite frankly I wouldn't want to drive there even if I could. Think of it as a blessing ladies and leave that madness to the men 😀
Boredom ......
Well I think a lot of that is a persons own doing and how they live life...waits for backlash lol. So if you live on a compound or not....you are in KSA. This is a place where if my husband was not working there I probably would never been able to experience, so grab life by the horns and live it. Embrace the culture, see and learn new things, get out and about, learn the language, meet the locals, shop til you drop with you new found wealth and enjoy the little things. So It may be more difficult as a woman but they are not impossible and you get back what you put in.
My advice for what it's worth is research, follow the news, speak to others, go with an open mind and patience. Focus on the positives not the negatives, enjoy the things that are available don't dwell on the unavailable and enjoy the sunshine 😀
Oh and before someone points out that I really shouldn't have an opinion having not lived in KSA yet, I have done my research, I have friends who have lived there for many years and also speak to work colleagues who live there now. People from all nationalities, all with different mind sets and opinions, negative and positive. I guess having the advantage of being a positive person who welcomes the diversity on our planet the only thing go will miss in KSA is my family, but hey with the extra funds they are only a plane ride away and Internet connection willing..good old Skype 😀

Where are you moving to?

Super like