Is the tren urbano paying for itself?

seoulguy wrote:

What's more useless than a full-scale public transportation system in an unlivable metro area?  Does anyone think that the so-called "tren urbano" will pay for itself in the next 1000 years?

Why didn't intelligence prevail and fund (cheaply!!) an interisland bus system? Could have started out with two buses and two drivers, circling the island in different directions each day.  How much difference do you think that would have made after 10 years.  Service with more drivers, hardware and routes would have paid for itself. Instead, you have a tiny area choking on gas fumes.

DM

I dispute the premise To the contrary, I find San Juan to be the most desirable/livable part of Puerto Rico. (I wouldn't consider living anywhere else on the island - at least not full time.)

The Tren Urbano is great. I doubt it 'pays for itself' - but it might when the economic (externality) benefit of decreased congestion on the roadways is taken into account. It gets reasonably high ridership - although it also charges *highly* subsidized fees to many riders. It is also extremely clean, timely, & (seemingly) well-maintained compared to other similar light rails.

The main downside of the Tren Urbano is where it doesn't go - Miramar, OSJ, Ocean Park, and Isla Verde. (Although it does run to the densely populated suburbs of Bayamon & Guaynabo.) If branches were run to, say, Miramar, Ocean Park, Isla Verde, & (in some form or another) to near OSJ, then this would be of tremendous benefit & would probably double ridership as lots of people live in Isla Verde & Ocean Park, but work in OSJ or other areas & traffic is pretty bad, especially to OSJ. I heard there was expansion plans to Miramar, but beyond that I do not know.

seoulguy wrote:

What's more useless than a full-scale public transportation system in an unlivable metro area?

More than half(!) of the total population of PR lives in the metro area so I'd say the public transport system is useful.
Actually, it should be improved to reduce jams IMHO..

The Tren Urbana (at least, the way it is managed) is yet another reason PR is bankrupt.

Gary,

I notice you do not live in the metro area.  My original post should have read "intra-", not "inter-" island bus system.  You probably drive, so you wouldn't know what living outside of San Juan is like without a car.  I don't drive, and I didn't drive 45 years ago when I lived in the Condado and took the bus to near the back entrance of Sagrado Corazon in Santurce.

A postdoc from The Netherlands and working at Loyola University Chicago was seriously mugged in a CTA bus just returning home one evening.  That was his introduction to America.  My livability comment is based purely on FBI crime statistics.  If the person can stand it, all power to you.  I'd rather put myself at less risk, not more.  However, if the metro area was today what it was like 40 years ago, sure, I'd be the first to sign up for a nice condo on Ashford Ave, Ocean Park, or even Isla Verde.  But, sadly, it's not.

seoulguy wrote:

I notice you do not live in the metro area.

No sir, I'm out in the boonies and I love it. I have to travel to the Metro area quite a lot since I have clients there but as soon as I'm done I'm outta there.
Actually, I do use the Tren Urbano every now and then. Some of my clients are in the financial district in Hato Rey and unless I'm in the truck with a lot of tools (when me and my techs are installing network infrastructure and/or equipment)  I park my car at Martinez Nadal station and ride the train to Roosevelt.

I couldn't live where I live without a car. The first slight chance at catching a 'publico' is three miles down the mountain, not my thing.

Theoretically I could get to the Metro area by public transport: Walk three miles, wait until a 'publico' passes. Take it to San Lorenzo. There get another one to Caguas. 4, 5 hours later in Caguas ( a 20 minutes drive by car) take the bus to Rio Piedras and from there another one or two to the destination. With a little luck I'd make it within a day.
By car a one way trip to town takes 45 minutes when traffic is light, up to two hours during rush hour. I avoid rush hour at all cost.