Problems for expats buying a house and lot

Cynthiavilla wrote:

Discussion No 94 is making generalization that all Filipinas intended to make money out of there foreign partners; there are Filipinas who are well educated, financially independent, and sometimes even support their foreign partners financially; all over the world you will see Filipina doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, managers etc. who have foreign partners and are happy; foreigners blindly go to a relationship with a Filipina without really knowing her, her belief about family, raising children; the extended family; also foreigners who comes here in the Philippines most of the time already had families of their own in their country and had already been divorced; I have situation such as a foreigner so in love with a Filipina whom he have not seen except on a chat; Then they will finally meet; the problem is the foreigner has already been brainwashed; hence in all of these mess foreigners and Filipinos who get burned in a relationship should accept they both have as an individual at fault and not blame all the females of this country;

There are many good points in your response along with the post #94 contents.  I will suggest an open talk on the other "pink elephant" in the closet that you and most don't want to acknowledge. 

Facts:
1.  The PI is filled with sooo many beautiful BROWN women with great or near perfect skin. 
2.  Most western men are not looking for a "white" Filipinas & absolutely find deep attraction to the lady with the great permanent tan.

Problem: Yet, so many Filipinas look for a "White" man to engineer a "pretty" baby because of the brain washing here of dark is bad white is good.  When you speak about a foreigner being brainwashed, make sure you have a balanced talk that includes the many here on the hunt for that whiter skin. Where does this drive for white skin come from? 

A little "introspection" into the post-colonial, internalized racism reveals the answer.  If during the hunt for a mate the Filipinas search model includes the paradigm of "I want a white baby so it will be cute" or I want to be whiter so I will look more attractive", they are also brainwashed but in a different direction.  Some Filipina's dating profiles read "white men only".  Nearly all big TV or movie starts here are mixed-white or very light.

Brainwashing start & sources:  "An April 2004 study by the research firm Synovate showed that 38 percent of women surveyed in Hong Kong, Korea, Malaysia, the Philippines and Taiwan use this stuff to whiten their skin. This is up from 34 percent in February 2002.

The leader of this dubious pack are Filipinas, a staggering 50 percent of whom are currently using skin whiteners, according to the study." 
Source: http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_deta … _year=2005

Again, be careful calling foreign men "brain washed" or blaming all the women here when a close look at your culture and the wish for some (not all) to make/engineer "white pretty babies" is well know.  This is not the same as the ATM fever some report on but I do feel it is just another factor that should not be ignored or overlooked. 

Selection of a mate is ideal (more biblical) when that selection is made for love, acceptance & respect.   A man should count his blessings when he has a wonderful lady with a great heart & soul (her other attributes being pleasing or financial status just add to the blessings). A woman should count her blessings when he has a dedicated, sober & providing man with a great heart & soul (his other attributes or financial status just add to the blessings).

Selection of a mate seems to be filled with many issues when it is done for atm/family status (some ladies goal), lots of sex/sexy body or arm candy (some men's goal) or possible white baby complexion (some ladies goal). 

Ok I will say it, ladies stop selecting a mate for ATM and baby color, men stop selecting a mate for sex/sexiness and arm candy!!


Please tell me if I have generalized the above facts in your opinion.

This is a global problem of which the PI seems to be in a race with India. "In 2012, sales of skin lightening creams in India alone totaled 258 tons, and the global market for skin lighteners is projected to reach US $19.8 billion by 2018 based on sales growth primarily in Asia, Africa and the Middle East, according to Andrew McDougall of CosmeticsDesign-Asia.com. Many of these skin-whitening products use active ingredients (such as mercurous chloride) and hydroquinone, which can be harmful. In fact, hydroquinone is banned in Europe, and skin lightening creams available in Nigeria has caused mutations in bacteria, proved to be possibly carcinogenic." 

Source:  http://www.latinpost.com/articles/8096/ … series.htm

philipperv wrote:

Where did you get this crazy figures from? I suggest that you look up the current minimum wage stats on the Dept. Of Labor website.

Whats crazy about it ?  What are your figures?

Mine are from: https://psa.gov.ph/content/filipino-fam … sults-2012
Republic of the Philippines - Philippine Statistics Authority (PSA).
Quote: In 2012, Filipino families had an annual income of 235 thousand pesos, on average.

It is not the minimum wages I quoted, but the average family income.

For Minimum wage, but note this: ( this only applies to those who ARE working:  Not everyone in the Philippines actually has a job)

http://www.nwpc.dole.gov.ph/pages/stati … st_wo.html

Starting at:
P219.00 per day RB-II (Cagayan Valley)  That's 68,328 per year at 6 days per week
P263.00 per day CAR (Cordillera Administrative Region)

NCR of course is higher at: (P466.00 basic wage + P15.00 COLA) per day (that's 150.072 per year 6 days a week)

The psa.gov.ph figure of 235,000 per year (for the average family) obviously relates to a few people working in each family, and some will earn more than the minimum wage.

Calif-Native wrote:

Most western men are not looking for a "white" Filipinas & absolutely find deep attraction to the lady with the great permanent tan..

That is a very interesting point.

With the way things are in the Philippines, it also seems that the whiter skinned Filipinas are often employed in preference to a darker skin, which means that the darker skinned have lower financial status. 
This of course leads to the simple fact that men looking for the darker skin preference end up having a smaller pool of financially well of Filipinas.

The white baby bit I do fully understand, having a daughter to my Filipina ex wife, and recalling all the Filipina friends comments. It makes me smile now.  And my ex was a college educated, with degree, Filipina.

if u want to simulate ur lease contract, make it more realistic....

ABCDiamond wrote:

philipperv wrote:

Where did you get this crazy figures from? I suggest that you look up the current minimum wage stats on the Dept. Of Labor website.

Whats crazy about it ?  What are your figures?

Mine are from: https://psa.gov.ph/content/filipino-fam … sults-2012
Republic of the Philippines - Philippine Statistics Authority (PSA).
Quote: In 2012, Filipino families had an annual income of 235 thousand pesos, on average.

It is not the minimum wages I quoted, but the average family income.

For Minimum wage, but note this: ( this only applies to those who ARE working:  Not everyone in the Philippines actually has a job)

http://www.nwpc.dole.gov.ph/pages/stati … st_wo.html

Starting at:
P219.00 per day RB-II (Cagayan Valley)  That's 68,328 per year at 6 days per week
P263.00 per day CAR (Cordillera Administrative Region)

NCR of course is higher at: (P466.00 basic wage + P15.00 COLA) per day (that's 150.072 per year 6 days a week)

The psa.gov.ph figure of 235,000 per year (for the average family) obviously relates to a few people working in each family, and some will earn more than the minimum wage.

More skewed Philippine statistics which no one should believe. Do you also believe that the unemployment rate is currently 6.4%?

If the average family income is P235,000 and the average family contains 4.6 members then that would mean that 3 of those members would have to be working full-time employment. We know this is usually not the case, as at least 2 of the members are school-aged children, and the mother, even if she has a job, usually isn't working full-time.

I agree that income disparity is 10x from low to high class but the % of high income workers is nowhere near 10% overall.

Cynthiavilla wrote:

A Filipino family that is financially OK is much less inclined to need financial help, but unfortunately the Philippines is a poor country. By consequence of this, there will be many poor families who find themselves in the position of now having a richer relative. And Filipino families by tradition help each other when needed.
There are of course Filipinas who are well educated, financially independent etc, but they are not in the majority.

You touch upon a good point here. Looking at the family is very important when choosing a girlfriend or future wife because, not only will a financially well off family usually have some pride and leave your wallet alone, but they also usually have stronger moral values and work ethics.

In my case, no need to as any amount stated doesn't make the contract less legally binding.

ABCDiamond wrote:

Calif-Native wrote:

Most western men are not looking for a "white" Filipinas & absolutely find deep attraction to the lady with the great permanent tan..

That is a very interesting point.

With the way things are in the Philippines, it also seems that the whiter skinned Filipinas are often employed in preference to a darker skin, which means that the darker skinned have lower financial status. 
This of course leads to the simple fact that men looking for the darker skin preference end up having a smaller pool of financially well of Filipinas.

I agree with Calif-Native. I have experienced it myself. I'm not fair-skinned. I didn't want to join that bandwagon to "whiteness". I was passed over by local men for girls who had fairer complexion. (I was able to land the job position I wanted though but that was because I graduated from Ateneo De Manila University.)

But when I moved to San Francisco, CA, I was hit on by men often. On the bus, in a cafe, at a parties, guys from different racial backgrounds would approach me. At one time, I dropped some books and papers, unintentionally, and there were six guys who helped me gather my things and two wanted to start a conversation with me. It really felt weird at first, because I didn't understand why I got attention, and I'm only 5 feet tall. I figured it out eventually.

The obsession to have lighter skin may have started as a product of colonial mentality. But I think in modern times, it's more like a means to get an ahead. The movie character Hannibal Lecter said "How do we begin to covet? . . . We begin by coveting what we see everyday." You see it everyday here, especially in the media . . . success, wealth and attention equated with fair skin. 

There are billboard upon billboards of whitening products, real estate, clothing, etc. with light skinned endorsers and "mestiza" models, fair-skinned women becoming high-earning celebrities (and even those who were dark when they first started are also lighter now), getting the job position and income they desire, catching the attention of man of their dreams, etc.

Many women blindly follow the trend, even those who do not believe that having lighter skin makes them more beautiful. I guess unless advertisers use more brown skinned models, and we see more of them in print and on air, and role models themselves do not succumb to using whitening products, then the trend will continue indefinitely.

philipperv wrote:

More skewed Philippine statistics which no one should believe
<..>
If the average family income is P235,000 and the average family contains 4.6 members then that would mean that 3 of those members would have to be working full-time employment.

235,000 is 19,583 per month or 4,519 per week.
One person at a call centre can earn that.  And of course others earn higher.

3 people working full time in the cheapest area on minimum wage gives 204,984
3 people working full time in the NCR area on minimum wage gives 436,176

You say that the 235,00, or 19,583 per month, average family income per month is too high as "Philippine statistics are skewed"?

It actually seems a reasonable figure.  I was actually thinking it seemed a bit low, maybe I have been associating with the higher than average paid

Maybe a new topic on average wages would be good

May I ask where you live in Manila? Is it Makati or perhaps Ft. Bonifacio? Point is that these call center jobs only go to college educated (and graduated) kids that pass a certain level of English proficiency. Hardly the job the average Filipino is qualified for.

Have you been to Tondo and looked at the familial mix there? The jobs are jeepney driver on down to garbage scavengers. Not a single call center agent I'm guessing. In the rest of Manila and Quezon City the situation isn't much better as most of the college graduates can't find jobs in their fields of study. In many cases their choice of college isn't as highly rated as Ateneo or De La Salle so they lose out to the better educated.

I'm not going to address the situation in the provinces which is much more dire but, if you take the average minimum wage salary × 6 days/week and subtract BIR taxes, Pag-Ibig Fund, and Philhealth contributions then you are left with the figures I came up with. Remember the topic is the nationwide average family income.

philipperv wrote:

if you take the average minimum wage salary × 6 days/week and subtract BIR taxes, Pag-Ibig Fund, and Philhealth contributions then you are left with the figures I came up with. Remember the topic is the nationwide average family income.

You are now talking about NET incomes, but the Philippine Government figures you are saying are wrong are the gross family incomes.
We seem to be discussing different things.  But nothing can be proved by anyone without access to all real income figures for the whole country.

The actual topic though is: Problems for expats buying a house and lot   And if White or Dark skinned girls are better

This thread has taken a few twists

My point is that the Government figures aren't based on what people are really earning outside of Makati so don't believe them. End of story.

Just wondering if any one has looked into the following scenario?

Where the girl friend purchases the land and the western boy friend purchase (builds) the house.

Yes.I am in that situation.I paid for land,and house.I put the land in my gf,s name.The house is in my name.

pej1111 wrote:

Just wondering if any one has looked into the following scenario?

Where the girl friend purchases the land and the western boy friend purchase (builds) the house.

That is a very common method.

Not sure what problems can occur in the event of a break up.

Is this a possible scenario ?
Land owner can sell land.
New Owner can ask house owner to remove house from property

But a lease on the land by the house owner could be helpful to avoid that.

Yes,it is possible,but a worst case scenario.My problem is,how i am going to tell my gf,whom i been together for five years,nursed me back to relative health, from a serious illness.She had access to my credit card and bank account,and always accounted for the last peso,that i don't trust you.Sign that lease?

istvan555 wrote:

Yes,it is possible,but a worst case scenario.My problem is,how i am going to tell my gf,whom i been together for five years,nursed me back to relative health, from a serious illness.She had access to my credit card and bank account,and always accounted for the last peso,that i don't trust you.Sign that lease?

On that basis, it sounds like you do trust her, and would act accordingly

A bit different to another extreme of knowing the girl for only a months and then wanting to buy a house

Just tell her that it is just covering yourself in case she gets sick before you do and her family tries to take over the lot.

The law are very similar in Thailand as foreigners can not own land, you can see a video in Expat-Blog about a british and a irish man who lost everything ( own through a Thai company ), it is from BBC : https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=526024

jUST Rent the lot for 50 years then renew it if it expires.

Register the lease in the register of deeds to be enforceable and hold on the original owner's duplicate of title

Foreigners cannot own property in the Philippines, period. Doesn't matter who's name it is in - it's hers. Only thing you can own as a foreigner is an approved condominium.

jonnyboy wrote:

Foreigners cannot own property in the Philippines, period. Doesn't matter who's name it is in - it's hers. Only thing you can own as a foreigner is an approved condominium.

This has been stated and restated a number of times already and some still think there is a way around this. Even if it is a way around it, is it really worth the headache? Aside from a place to live what is the gain? Surely, it can't be appreciation since resale demand is very low and you most assuredly will take a loss on resale. Of course, you might fare better in areas like Makati (assuming a foreigner could make sure a purchase legally which he can't) but Makati real estate comes at a premium which undercuts any discount/profit motives in the first place.

Even a condo purchase which, as jonnyboy stated, is the only legal track for property ownership by foreigners, has dismal resale values. When you buy it you are stuck with it. That's the reality for the foreseeable future. So if the ultimate goal is property ownership discounted, get a condo and call it a day. Otherwise, donate to charity, which would likely turn out better as Karma helps out later. On the other hand, playing Russian roulette with house and land purchases as a foreigner will likely prove to be a very expensive lesson learned unless one has some stunning and amazing luck.

Most guys who come here are older, like me. I have been here six years and really do not like it. But I got married and have a little son and can not afford to go back home.

I would never think about trying to buy land PERIOD. Don't any other foreigners who come here read? This place is a breeding ground for any and all forms of graft and corruption. You actually can not trust any one, even your wife.  The rent is really reasonable, so why even think about possibly losing part of your life savings on any number of scams regarding home ownership? 

Don't ever believe that you can use the "law" to protect you in buying land. There is no real law in this country. It is who you know, and how much you can pay the major, barangay captains, judges, lawyers and other city and regional officials. Who wants the stress of dealing with such people? Why retire and come to this place to deal with so much stress? Find a nice house or condo and rent. Bring just enough of your savings here to pay your bills and have a good life.

The more money you bring to this place, the more money Filipinos can and will steal from you.

Agree with dldeleaf  completely.

Best advice for foreigners is don't buy property in the Philippines; it's a very bad bet and is like buying a new car, drive it out of the showroom and you immediately lose 25%.

If you want to avoid losing money in the Philippines, it's simple. (1) Don't buy property, (2) don't put anything in a girlfriend or wife's name, (3) never think of investing in a business and (4) don't trust anyone.

Don't trust your own wife? Then why did you marry her?

istvan555 wrote:

Don't trust your own wife? Then why did you marry her?

It isn't always the wife.

She may be totally trustworthy, but if she dies, then that no longer applies and her family can take over, or try to.
or
She can be influenced by her family
or
Marriages just go wrong, it actually does happen.  Then what ?  She owns it all, YOU move out.

Yes,you quite right.No way i am trying to downplay the  emotional and finacial ruin a man can face,with a broken marriage.But it is not only a filipino problem.It can happen anywhere,in any country.
I was married to a filipina,for 27 years.She died of cancer.We had property in South Luzon.When i came to live in the   Phil,five years ago,her family informed me, that they want that property sold,and the proceeds to be given to them.I had different ideas.Contacted a lawyer,who informed me,that as we had no kids,the law of heredetary sucsession  applies,and i am the owner of that property.I transfered the title in my name,without any great difficulty.I sold it earlier this year
So what happens in cases where the pinay wife,decide to rip   the foreigner husband off ? I wish i knew the answer.
Take more care when starting a .relationship with a filipina. I been coming here for thirty years,and living here five years.No way i am trying to be a expert in the filipino culture,but i found,that if you treat a filipina with respect,love,and consideration,she will return that many times over.

jonnyboy wrote:

Agree with dldeleaf  completely.

Best advice for foreigners is don't buy property in the Philippines; it's a very bad bet and is like buying a new car, drive it out of the showroom and you immediately lose 25%.

If you want to avoid losing money in the Philippines, it's simple. (1) Don't buy property, (2) don't put anything in a girlfriend or wife's name, (3) never think of investing in a business and (4) don't trust anyone.

Why are you here if you believe what you are saying? My wife of 9 years and I built a home, we love it here and our negative business dealings involved one person who we quickly removed from our lives. Our neighbors are kind and ask for nothing, they drop off fresh vegetables and fruit when in season for which we return the favor with occasional grocery items they cannot otherwise afford.
We help my sisters wife who is sickly and the rest of her family are helpful, friendly and self sufficient asking for nothing and turning us down when we offer. Our home and the area we live in is clean, peaceful and as safe as any place I have lived in this world, though much warmer and less expensive.
We have dependable and inexpensive utilities when compared to our bills in the U.S.
My family members have had major surgical procedures without issue whereas I had a hospital in Arizona nearly kill me with a major mistake on the operating table, they then lied about it and tried charging more to cover the mistake.
We have our favorite vendors at the two local markets and we have three malls and four grocery stores within 20 minutes or so from our house.
My home stays with my wife as I think it should be and trusting her is easy because as with all who know her she has earned it through a lifetime of hard work and honesty. I know no one who has met her who does not think the world of her. In the event she is gone before me, we have a legal lease giving me the right to continue occupancy of the home.
I and she are content with our lives and with one another the end result is peace and happiness.
I am thankful for my wife and family and the Philippines for the life it has afforded us.
I hope someday you find the same.

TeeJay4103 wrote:

jonnyboy wrote:

Agree with dldeleaf  completely.

Best advice for foreigners is don't buy property in the Philippines; it's a very bad bet and is like buying a new car, drive it out of the showroom and you immediately lose 25%.

If you want to avoid losing money in the Philippines, it's simple. (1) Don't buy property, (2) don't put anything in a girlfriend or wife's name, (3) never think of investing in a business and (4) don't trust anyone.

Why are you here if you believe what you are saying? My wife of 9 years and I built a home, we love it here and our negative business dealings involved one person who we quickly removed from our lives. Our neighbors are kind and ask for nothing, they drop off fresh vegetables and fruit when in season for which we return the favor with occasional grocery items they cannot otherwise afford.
We help my sisters wife who is sickly and the rest of her family are helpful, friendly and self sufficient asking for nothing and turning us down when we offer. Our home and the area we live in is clean, peaceful and as safe as any place I have lived in this world, though much warmer and less expensive.
We have dependable and inexpensive utilities when compared to our bills in the U.S.
My family members have had major surgical procedures without issue whereas I had a hospital in Arizona nearly kill me with a major mistake on the operating table, they then lied about it and tried charging more to cover the mistake.
We have our favorite vendors at the two local markets and we have three malls and four grocery stores within 20 minutes or so from our house.
My home stays with my wife as I think it should be and trusting her is easy because as with all who know her she has earned it through a lifetime of hard work and honesty. I know no one who has met her who does not think the world of her. In the event she is gone before me, we have a legal lease giving me the right to continue occupancy of the home.
I and she are content with our lives and with one another the end result is peace and happiness.
I am thankful for my wife and family and the Philippines for the life it has afforded us.
I hope someday you find the same.

Well said! I have a wife of similar stature but have never bought because of the corruption in the area where we lived...Waterfront Rent was just too cheap compared to putting my finances out to high risk...

In addition to that lease you have in case of your wifes demise, I highly recommend you have her sign a P.O.A. giving you the right to sell said property after her passing...Without it you will be at the mercy of the courts on who will have the right...If the property is sold by whoever inherits the land the new owners may be able to succeed in having you removed through legal loopholes in the system..All it takes is paying off the right people to have it done...Better safe than sorry..

dondee31 wrote:

I would never think about trying to buy land PERIOD. Don't any other foreigners who come here read? This place is a breeding ground for any and all forms of graft and corruption. You actually can not trust any one, even your wife.  The rent is really reasonable, so why even think about possibly losing part of your life savings on any number of scams regarding home ownership?

There is an old saying that concurs with this reply..."A fool and his money will soon part."

dldeleaf wrote:

dondee31 wrote:

I would never think about trying to buy land PERIOD. Don't any other foreigners who come here read? This place is a breeding ground for any and all forms of graft and corruption. You actually can not trust any one, even your wife.  The rent is really reasonable, so why even think about possibly losing part of your life savings on any number of scams regarding home ownership?

There is an old saying that concurs with this reply..."A fool and his money will soon part."

Schoolyard tactics, negativity and a hatred of the place you call home and you're the smart one?   

TeeJay4103 wrote:

dldeleaf wrote:

dondee31 wrote:

I would never think about trying to buy land PERIOD. Don't any other foreigners who come here read? This place is a breeding ground for any and all forms of graft and corruption. You actually can not trust any one, even your wife.  The rent is really reasonable, so why even think about possibly losing part of your life savings on any number of scams regarding home ownership?

There is an old saying that concurs with this reply..."A fool and his money will soon part."

Schoolyard tactics, negativity and a hatred of the place you call home and you're the smart one?   

If you a problem regarding the views of others (views that don't coincide with yours), you can deal with me personally rather than posting childish comments here.

there are two types of ownership: per se and constructive. fyi

Well professor - let's not get into theoretical definitions here. This is the Philippines and nothing is as it appears or should be. Now which of the ownerships are you going to give the relatives of your ex wife who want to literally kick your butt out? Don't think that happens here?

Want to watch over your shoulder while you pay lawyer after lawyer to "straighten" things out?

Not me. Don't buy land in the Philippines! Unless, of course, you are willing to lose it.

A Filipino ex wife is the same as almost any ex wife anywhere in the world, they want whatever they can get out of you.

In the Philippines though, they have the advantage, as the land is already theirs. They don't even need a divorce to get it...

In other countries we can trust a partner more as we know the law treats us equally, and that is good for the relationship.

In the Philippines we go into a relationship knowing that if the relationship goes down the tubes, we have no protection.

Why do so many men prefer a non committed relationship in the Philippines ?

The only advice I will give is if you buy a house be prepared to loose 100% of your investment, maybe not to your gf, maybe not her family, but there is no resale market here. It is not uncommon to see houses for sale up to three years and more. Be prepared.

you will lose it after u die if u know what i mean. anyways, its ur opinion though.

Of in all my years, I have yet to see a funeral procession with a trailer attached full of worldly possessions. Same goes for money, once we make that final ride, it is the last one on this earth. None of this stuff here we value so greatly means anything.

Dear mad - what's your point?