Safety in Hungary

Christine wrote:

Do you think there is a high rate of criminality, social problems or tensions?

There are two basic types of criminal activity: violent crime and non-violent crime.

I do not find Hungary to be excessive in the violent crime area.

But I do find there is a lot of non-violent criminal activity here, especially so called "white collar crime". My wife and I have been in more legal cases (some in front of court) than in any other country we have lived in due to businesses, traders and government offices refusing to pay for work or other compensation due to one or both of us, or refusing EU supposedly "guaranteed" rights. And I have not found the national courts here to be of much help in resolving issues, so we are even considering taking at least one case to an EU level court of justice.

Nor can one expect the local Hungarian EU extension offices to be of much help either. For example, selecting the below highlighted option at http://magyarefk.hu:



Results in this:

I am a person of indian origin, have been living in Budapest for over 4 years. Budapest is generally very safe city, except there are few scams by con people around tourist areas (Vaci street and Deak). I will share some of my experiences..

1. In summer there are people who will annoy you selling iPhones on the streets. The phones they sell are usually stolen ones and they always annoy me if i want one ( i show them my latest iphone still they persist asking me to buy).

2.  I will usually walk around deak and vaci, couple of girls approach me to have a chat or asking me for directions. After talking for a while, they will ask you to join them for a drink. This is a scam and once you go and have the drinks, the bill comes usually over inflated!

3. Fake cops scam: If you are walking on streets (oktogon, kiraly utca or happen anywhere), usually a strange looking person will start a conversation with a map or asking for directions (ask you for picture less known streets). Once you start talking, another person interrupts will tell you he is a cop and wants to check you and will steal your money.

4.  Currency xchange: The shops in vaci utica or in tourist areas will take euro, but they buy it at very less rate 225 forint per EUR. The current exchange rate is around 315 forint per euro.

5. You have to watch your back Keleti, Nyugati and Blaha metro underground places for pickpockets.

As mentioned, the crime is usually theft or deception, not violent.
Always keep personal documents and cash close to you, and watch your bags.  Carry backpacks in front in crowded places.

Keep your apartment doors and windows locked at all times, even when you're home. 

As far as corruption, get everything in writing, signed by two witnesses, even the most simple deals involving any sort of payment.  If you have any work done on your home, hide your valuables and make sure someone is there to supervise workers.  If you leave them alone, things will go missing or you will be overcharged.  Don't pay for anything until you've scrutinized an itemized bill.  We got ripped off on our wedding reception, and of course going back to dispute a charge was no good.  Once they had the money they kept it.

Do not leave anything in your car.  Lock it in the trunk or take it with you.

Hide valuable jewelry when you go out or just leave it at home.  I've been on a tram where a guy came through the front door, swept through, tried to rip a woman's necklace from her and exit the back.  She was right next to me, I was terrified!
Also pay attention at metro stops, hold your phone tighter or stop using it until the doors are closed.  There's a video of that theft on YouTube.

In general, I felt absolutely safe in Budapest, just don't be naive, don't go to bars with strangers, and lock up.  It becomes second nature after a while.

octobop wrote:

Keep your apartment doors and windows locked at all times, even when you're home.

Totally agree.

I advise anyone living in an apartment building in Budapest to have shutters or metal bars over their windows and doors. Your front door should be made of metal with multiple attack resistant security features and deadlocks/deadbolts. If you can manage it, have security cameras observing your front door so you can see who is there before you open it.

I have a remote outbuilding I use as storage for things like the lawnmower. I have all these kinds of security devices, plus movement activated lights and internet enabled cameras. Even though I have all of these, plus a decent level of insurance, I still worry about the safety. 

The inventiveness of the criminal thinking here is truly mindboggling.

Since I've been here (~20 years) the following has occured:

1) Threatened with a bomb (police squad who came around said it was unlikely to be a serious threat)
2) Had a car stolen (recovered 7 years later)
3) Had another car broken into (broke my locks, stole 50Ft and my fire extinguisher)
4) Had yet another car window smashed (didn't steal anything for some reason)
5) Been pickpocketed (lost passport, credit cards etc)
6) Had several fake policemen/morons try and scam me in the street (usually the "checking money" one, I just walk away)
7) Been asked for bribes by policemen
8) Had a guy try and scam me into buying his house for cash (i.e. me with a suitcase full of money). He didn't actually own it properly as the bank had a lien on it.  He would have disappeared.
9) Was nearly blown up in Budapest by a car bomb (see here: car bomb 1998

Sounds bad but I'm still here.....

Budapest is a very safe city even in the evening

I stick to a few personal safety rules that I abide by in any major city or town. I am very heads down and don't carry anything obvious.
I have never had any difficulty in Budapest so far or in the countryside.

I am not sure where to start.
My husband is Hungarian and even he is shocked by how low things have gotten over here in Budapest since he lived here.
We thought of redoing our flat but we do not trust any vendors to come into our place.
We stored our cars 2 different times in HU when we left for a US visit, both times even though we paid for the storage space the persons watching our cars had used them without our consent and left them in bad repair.
I always lived in "nice" area in the USA in the burbs and hardly ever walked, ( no one walks in LA was a hit song for a good reason in the 1980's)
I had walked my then 6 year old son to school in a very nice neighborhood where we lived and had a man wearing a beautiful suit and driving a brand new Mercedes called me over and then stuck a loaded gun in my face, no more walking after that.I was very glad he  asulted me after I had already dropped my son off at school.
Fast forward to Budapest a bit over 2 years ago. 2 weeks after knee surgery while taking a Saturday stroll to the market with my husband I had to beat off a man and women on Rakoczi St. who were pulling at my cross shoulder handbag while I was on crutches.
Most older women would probably get their bag stolen, I am just a bit of a fighter by nature.My husband had been walking a good 30 ft. ahead of me, not watching my back as he should of been doing.
3 years back while taking a tram again with my mostly useless as a protector husband, I let a women older then myself get off before me at the last stop. The tram was going to sit for a good 5 min. before going back, last stop and break time for the driver.
I have 2 really shot knees and was going down the few stairs slowly and carefully because it was raining and slippery on the pavement. Last step some old HU man reached out, grabbed my wrist and physically pulled me off the stairs. What a jerk!! I being  fiesty and all turned around and hit him on his bottom with my umbrella and told him where he could go.
Again, never experienced anyone so odd in the USA. I have even been to NYC and it would never happen for anyone to grab a stranger on the st. unless they were out for blood.
I find HU men to be too bold and rude,not what I thought they would be.
In general though we never walk outside at night and I always pay close attention to people near me these days.
This is a city and some people here have nothing to loose so be careful.
4 years back right outside of our flat a 60 year old women was robbed and pushed to the ground hard by a 20 something year old Gypsy man.
People got out of their cars to help her and a few men chased the guy down and recovered her bag. The held him to the ground until the cops came out. The cops only gave him a ticket to appear in court, told everyone that there was no big crime because her bag had been recovered, no mention of her going off in the ambulance though!
Many drunks and beggars around, we live in the 7th district, I am getting a bit tired of it all, We are getting older and don't have enough fight left in us to defend ourselves in the future. Right now I do not see things getting better over here.
I have stored away my good jewels and dress down for the most part when out in public.
Sad thing is one of the few things I enjoy about the city is taking walks, I might as well go back to Cali if I want to drive everywhere to be safe.
We have done several different sorts of businesses over 40 some years with Hungarians ,we will never do it again, hard to collect and hard to find a real honest business partner.My poor husband is really put out about the bad behavior he sees here these days.
10 or so years back my yoga instructor from Las Vegas came to Budapest for one week with her husband and another couple from Vegas.
Her husband thought himself very slick and did a money exchange on the st. near Vaci Utca with a man making change on the st.
He changed $500. They went to spend some of the money and were told they had been ripped off, the money was not HU money and worth less then $200 in total.
Later the same day they noticed the exchange man on another st. still playing his game.
Her husband a slim tiny older man went up the the younger guy and put his hands around his throat and told him to give him back all his money or the cops were coming out. The ripoff artist gave him back his $500 plus another $200 he had on him. Seems dangerous but otherwise he would never have gotten any justice.
I am not afraid too much of fighting but most 60 year old women walking alone here could be bothered by men on the st. I was once approached by 5 young men in daylight in the 7th asking me for money, rude and scary. I know If it was legal I would be holding.( Long story but I was raised my my native American mother and we learned to fight no matter what, no very common for most ladies to fight back and really it is no fun, getting too old to fight these days would rather be sitting in the sunshine)

Wow, you have had some terrible luck here in Hungary. My husband and son were near the explosion in 1998, think it was the McDonald's downtown?That was a mafia thing from what we heard, have a few of those dudes in our house as well.... Classy!!... Not!

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

We have done several different sorts of businesses over 40 some years with Hungarians ,we will never do it again, hard to collect and hard to find a real honest business partner.

I have also found this to be true.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Wow, you have had some terrible luck here in Hungary. My husband and son were near the explosion in 1998, think it was the McDonald's downtown?That was a mafia thing from what we heard, have a few of those dudes in our house as well.... Classy!!... Not!

Yes, it seems like a string of bad luck but not really.  It's all spread out over time and probably no worse than anywhere else.  We've had acts of kindness as well.

I've had my car and house burglarised in the UK.  They smashed up my car dashboard, stole my car radio and it cost about £500 and several months to put right.  When they caught the guy, he had 500 car radios in his apartment.  The going rate for a 2nd hand car radio was £2.  I could have given him £2 instead of him causing me so much trouble. The house burglary, they stole my stereo and all my CDs.

The bomb explosion was indeed the mafia. It was near the McDonalds. I was in an office in the same street, only 1h before as there was a company there that handled my work permit application.  My colleague was in the McDonalds just 15 minutes before and had just gone back to the office.

But this kind of luck is random. I was also relatively close by when the IRA struck a couple of times in London and elsewhere.  Living with terrorism in the UK was just a normal thing then so I didn't think much about it so much.   

Even this year I was lucky to escape on a trip I was on. I came back late from a restaurant dinner with my colleagues to my hotel  and found the room next door on fire. If I had been asleep I would have probably died of smoke inhalation.

we live in Jakfa, and are very comfortable with safety

we often leave doors / windows / gates / cars open - clearly, we don't leave valuables on display at any time

i find budapest very comfortable when we visit, again we do not flaunt anything whilst walking around .....

there is plenty of criminality in terms of over-charging for work done [sometimes charging for goods / services not provided], as well as the universal pilfering from workplaces - both of which seem to be an hungarian norm ......

way better than the uk that we abandoned 3 years ago 

toby

Your "Guardian Angles" work overtime!
Yes, it is strange how random events can be in life.
On 9/11 our son was flying home to Vegas from Budapest.
He flew out of Paris and was suppose to land at JKF in NY for his Vegas connection.
His flight was rerouted to Logan airport.
He flew out of Boston just a few hours before the planes went down.
We had just picked him up at the Vegas airport and he had just gone to bed when we switched on the tv set.

Just random and pure luck that he was not delayed longer in Boston and put on one of those doomed flights.

Angolhapsi wrote:

there is plenty of criminality in terms of over-charging for work done [sometimes charging for goods / services not provided], as well as the universal pilfering from workplaces - both of which seem to be an hungarian norm ......

Overcharging is a really serious problem in the entire region.  Quality is low too with lots of corners being cut to bodge things (bodge = kontar in Hungarian).  Everything needs to be checked and double checked.  Some sectors like car repairs and construction particularly seem to be involved.

Yes, we paid for a new clutch on your car a couple years ago, brought the part in, were told we could do that.
After one day we realized they never changed out the clutch at all, just a minor adjustment was done that didn't last the day. Paid for labor and gave them a new part! Still going on the old worn clutch only because my husband knows how to drive.
I am afraid to even move the car 10 ft. in case I mess up the worn clutch. We should redo it but don't trust anyone right now over here, if we had a garage and tools we would do it ourselves.
Can't tell you how many times we have been ripped off in small amounts, 100 forints here 50 forints there, seems like nothing but if these vendors do this all day long they are making a killing for nothing. Now when ever we shop at the large farmers market we use the scale near the front doors and make sure we have not been scammed,such a hassle but it burns us to be seen as suckers.
My husband is Hungarian too, they must see he is slightly different as he was away for 40 years, they think everyone is dumb and they are so smart to scam us , we are all rich in their minds if we come from the west, not true otherwise why would we be here letting ourselves live around such low lifes?
Starting to believe I might be happier as a poor person back home then a middle class one here who has to watch their back all the time.

These scams can be very dangerous as well.
A couple years ago my senior aged husband had the flu. It would not go away so he got a script from his doc. for antibiotics.
Went to the big pharmacy on Bla Luza on the corner to get it filled.
Got home and looked over the paperwork and realized he was given some cheap drug that was not what the doc. had ordered.
The older lady working there as a clerk had taken  loose computer papers and swiped the expensive drug he was given by his doc. and replaced it with a cheap drug that was not going to heal him at all.
He went back and told her off, he was given his proper med.
He was angry with himself and still is angry everytime he sees her still working there. He should of told the manager about this but he was so upset at the time he just wanted to leave the building.
Wonder how many people she has put at risk or worst with her little side money making scam?
We also went back to the auto mechanic to tell him we wanted to see our old part. Too late of course and he had all his bases covered ahead of time. Threw the part out, didn't  know who had done the work at his shop( weird) etc. These scammers have all the bases covered and innocent people have no change of calling them out.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....
After one day we realized they never changed out the clutch at all, just a minor adjustment was done that didn't last the day. Paid for labor and gave them a new part! Still going on the old worn clutch only because my husband knows how to drive.

I often mark the parts I know need changing on my car so I know if they've been changed.  It's not so easy to do but you can do it on the more obvious parts.

I've recently taken to fixing my own (American manufactured) car because I could not find anyone competent to repair it.  Our usual garage said they could not do it which was an absolute surprise. I tried many other places but no-one knew how to fix it.   Or they just did not want to be involved. The problem was a fault with the rear axle, that required special tools which no-one said they had and did not want to acquire.  I even had to make some of my own specific tools.  Most of the other special tools and parts I obtained on Ebay or I had to import from the USA. I then watched all the videos on Youtube.  I'm now an absolute expert on that particular rear axle and I can bore the life out of people on that type of vehicle's details.   

Unbelievably, It took me almost a year to fix it, what with working, just research, reading up, watching videos, obtaining the parts, making the tools and overcoming difficulties.  At least I know it's done to a certain standard but time will tell if my own engineering is any better than a local fixer.

I understand your frustration.
We imported a new Mustang T-top 5 speed to HU in 1989. One of our "friends" here let his brother watch the car for us. The jerk rented out our car for joy rides to anyone in his hick village who had a buck.
My husband came back to HU and literally cried. The transmission was gone, the floor mats dirty etc. Had to build his own wooden crate to ship the tranny back to Calif to get it fixed, then took it back on the plane with him and had it installed in Hungary.
Can't trust locals with cars.
My husband is a highly trained machinist so if you ever find yourself in a pinch, let us know he may be able to give you some hints.
These days we just buy a used car and let the chips fly.
Great tip about marking parts before repairs, hoe to God we never need to do that again though.

   hi guys, just thought I would add my bit to the topic ( IS HUNGARY SAFE).
no where on the planet is safe!!.
here in the uk, we have pick pockets, bag snatchers, bon men, scammers, thieves, drunks, thugs prostitutes, bent cops, bent officials ect ect, .
I have traveld all over the world, eastern Europe, Asia, Africa ect, and there are bad people everywhere so I cant see how Hungary is worse than any other country.
someone mentioned the usa, man that's got to be the maddest place on the planet everyone carries guns !!.
I have always kept my self safe throughout  my travels in
the world, ok im a big guy and  x forces but I am also street wise. being street wise is essential in this life.

iv,e heard stories of the Hungarian mafia, criminal gangs ect but every country has this problem not just Hungary.
think before you act never put yourself in harms way.
I believe that most people get conned, ripped off and duped because they are so gullible, and in experienced to the way in which the real world operates!!.
a car hire company tried to rip me off in Bulgaria a few years back . when I returned the hire car the ass hole tried to keep my (£ 300) deposit because the spare in the boot was flat and he insisted it was inflated at the time I hired it.

being completely fair I  calmly asked him to reconsider , when he refused to do so I grabbed him by the throat lifted him off the floor and proceed to choke him, his friend tried to intervene so I grabbed him by the throat with my other hand and lifted him off the floor also.
when they  realised that they were both about to die he thrust the card machine at me .

i had my £300 deposit put back on my credit card then i smashed the card reader against the wall and left to catch my flight home.

i know violence is unacceptable , however sometimes that's the only way to treat these con men and scammers.
i hate someone trying to rip me off and i hate to see others ripped off also.

I agree there are crazies everywhere. Best to try and mind your own business.
Love how you got your deposit back.
Sadly we are not all built as strong as you are. I beat off a Gypsy man trying to steal my cross shoulder handbag with my crutch. In broad daylight on a busy Blvd. in Budapest with people walking near by.
Sometimes you must act fast and defend yourself.. Another time in Budapest I had to stick the raw end of my umbrella up a mans bum. He grabbed my wrist and literally yanked me down the last 2 steps of a tram on a slippery, wet, rainy sidewalk. Guess I was not moving fast enough for him although I had been waiting for an elderly women to get off before me.
I was older myself and have a couple of bad knees.
Some people from Las Vegas visited Budapest 10 years ago. My husband and I met up with them in the city and showed them around for a bit.One of the women was my former yoga instructor from Vegas.These people were in the 50's at the time.
One guy did a money change on the st. in Budapest. Changed $500. for a good rate, or so he thought.
Went to spend the funds and was told the money was no good in Hungary. From some other country and the total was only worth around $200.
Later that day he noticed the scammer still do his thing, trying to rip visitors off. He went to the guy and put his hands around his  neck and demanded his $500. back or they were getting the cops over to straighten it out.
The scam artist gave him his $500. plus and additional $200. or so he had on him and ran away.
This guy was tiny, shorter then me and very slim, guess he was very angry so he was able to stand up for himself.
We do tend to do dumb things sometimes as tourists, in the US I am sure her husband would never hand a stranger $500. and expect him to be honest.
It is sad when one has to consider every con before doing any sort of business.
My husband who is Hungarian makes me stay outside of any small business  these days and tells me on no circumstances to open my mouth up and speak English, if so the bill will be at least double.
Stay safe ,I as a 60 year old skinny women have to do more defense with my body language and face then I can actually deliver if needed.Sometimes I wish I was a big dude and no one would come over to me for anything.
I see things are getting wilder in the US with guns, my little ol' lady girlfriend in Las Vegas is 72 and carries a firearm, as spent allot of time on the gun range and has a permit to carry.
I have had a gun shoved towards my face in Calif. by a man in a suit in a brand new Mercedes, he looked like a middle aged doctor or lawyer. Never know, maybe that is one reason we Americans are usually always friendly never wish to insult a crazy person.
Here in Hungary so many people have rude expressions on their faces, if they were in the US they would be finding allot of trouble with that aggressive look on their faces. Knew a really nice Hungarian guy in the US years ago. He could barley speak English. He was walking in Colo. with a 6 pack of beer in his hand. A couple of guys asked him for a beer. He hesitated and they attacked him and put out one of his eyes with a beer bottle. Scary world, best to give it up and walk away in some situations.

digger# driver1963 wrote:

there are bad people everywhere so I cant see how Hungary is worse than any other country.

As a question of relative comparison, yes some places certainly can be less safe (i.e. "worse") than others. In some other countries where I worked I could move around freely, and in others I was provided an armed escort. So, yes, I would say those places where I needed an armed escort were certainly "worse" for safety. And as stated here by myself and others, there is the impression for white collar crimes and cons (even from "legitimate" businesses), that Hungary is worse then, say, Switzerland (which I mention since I lived there for many years so can personally compare from direct experience).

One must absolutely be more street smart in Hungary than one needs to be in, for example again, Switzerland (at least when I lived there). One can get almost complacent in trusting everyone in Switzerland. For example, knew someone who forgot their notebook computer on a tram in Zürich, and it was turned into the police. No one in Switzerland needs to keep a "found" laptop, since most everyone can probably afford to buy even a better one. Never had any crime problems myself in Switzerland in over 7 years living there. Know more than one person in Hungary who was not paying attention and had their notebook stolen from the luggage rack in a train. I know it seems "obvious" not to sleep in trains here if you have valuables in the overhead racks, but honest people who have not experienced personal crime yet often don't think thieves purposely roam on trains looking for easy marks.

Never had to double check I was getting what I ordered in a store in Switzerland. Here in Hungary I have taken to double check everything, as too often I have experienced what I was provided was not what I asked for (i.e. ask for 40 bolts, they go in the back room and fill a bag, and try to ring up the sale, but I pour it out and count myself, and there are only 36 bolts in the bag and some are of the wrong size -- sloppy or criminal I do not care, but it has happened much more in Hungary than in other places where I have lived).

I don't mind too much the frontier lifestyle, keeps one on their toes and keeps life interesting. Despite all the reported and experienced Swiss "safety", I also found Switzerland quite boring.

Yes, we now check all store paperwork before leaving the shop. My husband has even over spoke a few times not noticing he did get his advertised discount at the check out. Have been  ripped off so many times we tend to overdo it these days with making sure we got what we paid for.
It does tend to get old though, not trusting people, not my fave way of living.
As has been stated here before the Mob is active here, it also has a very long reach, across the ocean.
I knew 2 Hungarian weight lifters at my gym in Vegas, would often BS with them on my way into my yoga classes. Both moved to the US to avoid connections in the 7th district. Told me I would be ok, they had a small business in the 7th and had to leave the country.
There are also several small coffee shops in Vegas and other areas which we avoided because some of the customers inside were connected to Hungary. In the US my husband avoids all HU people if possible, sort of upsetting to think everyone knows someone who knows someone...
I think ex pats with no Hungarian roots have really no clue what is really going on, ignorance is bliss, be safe people.

hi marliyn

it irks me particularly when i hear of mechanic scams

i don't know how they sleep at night !!

if you bring it to me [after september, i'm kinda swamped!!], i will gladly do it properly for you. at 4000ft/hour - i know we are far from BP, in Jákfa, but you can stay locally for good prices, still have change from BP prices, and get it done properly to boot

Toby
***

BTW, our neighboours were robbed the other day. Burglars got in through the patio doors. Neighbours had neglected to put their shutters down, probably due to complacency - this is supposed to be a very safe "middle class" area.  I think this shows the need for constant vigilance, both in the street AND at home.   Apparently the burglars are very adept at opening and closing patio doors without any problem and leaving no sign of entry.

By coincidence, I've just taken delivery of some external security cameras which should be something of a deterrent (or not).  They were cheap to buy - $150 a pop. Software is totally free to download.  If you have Internet (and you have if you are reading this), then they are a doddle (UK slang - easy) to set up.

No doubt some more extremist elements around here ("Fortress Fidesz") will blame the local refugees or Romanians.

Holy cow... I was born in Budapest and living here ever since (36 years), my car radio was stolen once and... that's it.

There are some basic things, like keep your wallet and phone in your inner pocket, or hold on to your purse or bag when traveling, use obvious security measures at home (like alarm with a security contract -it costs like 5000Ft/month and when the alarm goes off they will be on the spot in 2-4 minutes, lattice windows or security door -if you live in a flat downtown-  (I personally live in an outer district, there was a break-in like 10 years ago at a neighbor, that's all I know of...) and try not to act like an obvious tourist.

Yes, there are specialized criminals on tourists, but all their tricks are well known nowadays, as mentioned before, like too expensive drinks etc... If you ever get into such situations, you don't have to pay, just call the police. They would never touch you and they are scared of the police, it will be a free drink in this case.

Avoid the 8th. and parts of the 9th and 10th (at night) districts and you will be fine. Assaults are VERY rare.

Best Regards

Just Steve wrote:

...try not to act like an obvious tourist.

I think it's just a case of being aware of your surroundings, keep away from crowds and get some street smarts about your possessions and your person.

Same stuff you would do in any city.

As for the scams, those are so stupid, one would have to be rather niave to get conned these days.

BTW, someone ran into Mrs Fluffy's car and smashed the front a couple of days ago.  And they drove away.  No-one saw anything. Another problem in HU. People have no vehicle insurance.