Driving in Vietnam

Its organized chaos, If you do everything slow the locals understand ,what your trying to do . The death on the roads is very bad . Don't know any official figure , but 35K deaths a year is banted around. I have been driving for 8 years 2 small accidents ,because I anticipated wrongly. Can be fun , Mark Nha Trang

I do believe wrote:

To old one eye - you may be old (like me) but you are one of the very few who comprehend the simplicity and sense of the perceived chaos of driving in Vietnam. Horns in VN are to let the other guy know you're there. In the U.S. the horn is taken as an admonishment even when it is not.

In my neighbourhood horns are mainly used to let everyone know they have a new motorbike, or for the younger ones, to show they can " ride " it, or show everyone they can drive or own a toy truck/car, or to scare cattle as they try and pass them, or wake them up as they're peacefully sleeping on the side of the road.( Including VN's sleeping, lol ),  I've followed VN's, ( something I try and avoid doing, but these times I've been curious as to WTF they are tooting at all the time ), sometimes for miles, some toot at EVERYTHING on the side of the road, even motorbikes with no one on them, and every building they pass, etc, etc. Horns have many uses in VN. It's not important if they have no working lights, indicators, front brakes, mufflers, etc, as long as that horn works.

lange511 wrote:

Its organized chaos, If you do everything slow the locals understand ,what your trying to do . The death on the roads is very bad . Don't know any official figure , but 35K deaths a year is banted around. I have been driving for 8 years 2 small accidents ,because I anticipated wrongly. Can be fun , Mark Nha Trang

Going slow is the key on avoiding an accident. Funny enough whenever I go slow I feel like someone else is going to crash into me. I actually feel safer riding in Vietnam than back in Australia. In Australia, you can't anticipate road users at all and you're pretty much invisible to everyone. Even with all the rules and laws, you never take the right of way for granted because in an accident the person in the car will always claim they didn't see you and youve mysteriously appeared out of nowhere. By that time an arm and a leg is missing. As chaotic as Vietnam is, the system works for them according to their lives. Sure things can be better, which can only be done via education, therefore takes time. Isn't that what a developing country is all about?

cossmo wrote:

lange511 wrote:

Its organized chaos, If you do everything slow the locals understand ,what your trying to do . The death on the roads is very bad . Don't know any official figure , but 35K deaths a year is banted around. I have been driving for 8 years 2 small accidents ,because I anticipated wrongly. Can be fun , Mark Nha Trang

Going slow is the key on avoiding an accident. Funny enough whenever I go slow I feel like someone else is going to crash into me. I actually feel safer riding in Vietnam than back in Australia. In Australia, you can't anticipate road users at all and you're pretty much invisible to everyone. Even with all the rules and laws, you never take the right of way for granted because in an accident the person in the car will always claim they didn't see you and youve mysteriously appeared out of nowhere. By that time an arm and a leg is missing. As chaotic as Vietnam is, the system works for them according to their lives. Sure things can be better, which can only be done via education, therefore takes time. Isn't that what a developing country is all about?

According to my Deputy Principal wife, traffic education has been in VN schools for many years. It sure was a surprise for me.

One of the worst conventions of driving in Vietnam is when turning right into the main flow of traffic, drivers almost never look backwards at the oncoming traffic before turning. If you are unfortunate to be driving on the right-hand side of the road when someone does this, you have no choice but to swerve over to avoid them (if you have time).

Well.. This traffic education what they get from schools is really vague to say the least.

They basicly teach students not to walk on the roads but on sidewalks, look when to cross the roads and that kind basic, they will not cover any traffic rules.. Well.. They might go far as red is stop and green is go, but most of the students are sleep that time anyway

I like riding in Nam and have been since 2012. I just think the opposite to my Australian system, no one has right of way and drive slowly.

jonnyboy222 wrote:

One of the worst conventions of driving in Vietnam is when turning right into the main flow of traffic, drivers almost never look backwards at the oncoming traffic before turning. If you are unfortunate to be driving on the right-hand side of the road when someone does this, you have no choice but to swerve over to avoid them (if you have time).

Wow! Jonnyboy, you must be new to Vietnam. I have said on this topic numerous times that when entering a roadway you should not be looking to make sure the way is clear. In your country yes, here it is unsafe. It is amazing how so many expats think they know how to drive in Vietnam but don't. The oversize egos of some expats prevents them from learning a whole different philosophy of driving. I was like that for about two years and my Epiphany (sudden realization) humbled me. We expats can be so condescending. Sometimes it is difficult to understand new concepts but we should welcome the new knowledge with open arms instead of hostility.

jonnyboy222 wrote:

One of the worst conventions of driving in Vietnam is when turning right into the main flow of traffic, drivers almost never look backwards at the oncoming traffic before turning. If you are unfortunate to be driving on the right-hand side of the road when someone does this, you have no choice but to swerve over to avoid them (if you have time).

Otherwise known as kamikaze riders

I do believe wrote:

you should not be looking to make sure the way is clear. In your country yes, here it is unsafe. It is amazing how so many expats think they know how to drive in Vietnam but don't.

And this is one one big pile of BS..

Whats next?? If computer will not get power, do test it by sticking fork in the wall socket.. this is unsafe in your country, but in Vietnam it's totally safe........  (Yes I know, my example was pretty lame but still..

Looking that the way is clear has one big problem... rider skills, untrained motorcycle rider goes where they look. that is if they look left they will go left! you can see this in action when a loud noise scares them and they turn their heads to look.. you can see the motorcycle swerve while they turn their head.

but just to clarified.. "drivers almost never look backwards" if they are turning right.. they should look left before they enter the main road. (they hardly ever do.. ) simple turn of their head is enough to look side and "backwards" to determine if its safe. 

ps. Yesterday one woman decided to run red lights with her scooter and thought that I who had green will stop for sure (Car) Needles to say, I did not. I am little sad tho.. as she did not fell over!!!! I did try my best.

Why do we expats think we have the right to dictate the way Vietnamese drive??? I might go so far as to say that their driving habits could stand improvement, but stop for a moment and think what it would be like if suddenly everyone here drove like they do in Switzerland (IMO the safest drivers anywhere)

Given the congestion and the inadequate facilities I think it would be bedlam

The Swiss think five cars waiting for a traffic light is a traffic jam

Old Saigon Hand wrote:

Why do we expats think we have the right to dictate the way Vietnamese drive??? I might go so far as to say that their driving habits could stand improvement, but stop for a moment and think what it would be like if suddenly everyone here drove like they do in Switzerland (IMO the safest drivers anywhere)

Given the congestion and the inadequate facilities I think it would be bedlam

The Swiss think five cars waiting for a traffic light is a traffic jam

The same expats/visitors who dictate that a vehicle horn must never be used unless a dire emergency.
The same expats/visitors who dictate that cleaning ones nose must never be done in public.
The same expats/visitors who dictate that one MUST be part of the culture and if you don't like it,LEAVE!
The same expats/visitors who dictate that age or race must never be a consideration for employment.
And ironically,the same expats/visitors who dictate that changing a countries ideals,habits and beliefs is outdated,colonial,biased and ignorant.

Old Saigon Hand wrote:

Why do we expats think we have the right to dictate the way Vietnamese drive???

We don't.. Their existing traffic laws do.. there is no mention big has right of the way.. they do have that pesky "right of the way" rule.. unless in roundabout then its left..

If they would not have traffic laws then I would say "fine, then we do as locals.."

im not even complaining their stupid speed limits.. 40km area where could be 80..

Not even when police stops me and my friends while doing 120km on 40km area.. (Deo Omega, Dalat)

Most of the time drives and me included flex..

ou.. and about speed.. I don't feel safe going slow, one time I did try that in the Bangkok, not so much to be safe but safe fuel. I stopped that nonsense after 10min or so.. People passing you left and right was not nice feeling nor safe one.

Totally agree, they are mental to say the least, its a couldn't give a monkeys about anyone else attitude.

So it this is such a bad place why are you here?? 

Just experienced the worst tonight so that is why I replied,  does anyone care on the roads or are they on a deathwish ?

Spot Kick Coaching wrote:

Just experienced the worst tonight so that is why I replied,  does anyone care on the roads or are they on a deathwish ?

''just experienced the worst tonight''
Do tell.

No doubt there are lots of traffic injuries and deaths in Vietnam, but are there any statistics which back up these grim ideas?

In California for example (which has a population of 38.8 million (compared to VietNams population of 90 million) the 2012 Mileage Death Rate (MDR) – fatalities per 100 million miles traveled is 0.91, and marks the fifth time California has been below 1.0. California is much better than the national 1.09 MDR.

In VietNam according to wikipedia there are  24.7 road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants per year or about a total of 22,230 traffic fatalities per year which when compared to the US (11.6 fatalities/ 100,000) is high, but its lower than Saudi Arabia whose figure is  24.8.

Vietnam official statistics say that there were only 10, 858 traffic fatalities in 2013 

Old Saigon Hand wrote:

No doubt there are lots of traffic injuries and deaths in Vietnam, but are there any statistics which back up these grim ideas?

In California for example (which has a population of 38.8 million (compared to VietNams population of 90 million) the 2012 Mileage Death Rate (MDR) – fatalities per 100 million miles traveled is 0.91, and marks the fifth time California has been below 1.0. California is much better than the national 1.09 MDR.

In VietNam according to wikipedia there are  24.7 road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants per year or about a total of 22,230 traffic fatalities per year which when compared to the US (11.6 fatalities/ 100,000) is high, but its lower than Saudi Arabia whose figure is  24.8.

Vietnam official statistics say that there were only 10, 858 traffic fatalities in 2013 

Keep in mind that a 'traffic fatality ' is only registered as such when the person actually dies at the scene. Not at hospital or on the way to hospital. Or later deaths from complications such as blood clots,brain trauma or infections.

Doesn't mean its right death on the road caused by nutters

Hi All,
I have read many comments about how bad the drivers are and about the horn that's always on etc etc.

First, I would like to say, we are staying in someone's backyard, the least we can do is understand why its such before putting/writing those comments.

Second, if you thinks its that bad, GO HOME

Third, there are also other countries that I had been and had seen worst behaviours there.

I had been here in north Vietnam for 3 years now. I had two accidents, not serious, with some bruises, that's about all. I learn from the locals a simple LAW, and it's like skiing, "the onus is on the person behind to avoid the person in the front at all cost". What it means is simply, give way to any vehicle that's ahead of you, whether they are coming from the side road or cutting lanes in front of you. Once I understand that, I had no more problems here.

Now, the horn is a way of telling someone that "I'm coming", no offence like in other countries. If you do not wish to give way, just stay in your lane, they would find a way to pass you, so no big deal there.

The only thing I find irritating is the "high beam". Almost all motorist uses the high beam at night. Car drivers will lower their headlights if you "flashes" at them, but most motor cyclist do not. It's not that they are rude, but, I found out that most of them does not know that the "blue" light on the display is information for "high beam". They thought it's for headlight "ON". That I found out from my friends here, :-(

So, for those of us who, have to or want to, stay on, learn from the locals and laugh about it. Live and let live. Life is too short to get mad over such things. Enjoy your time here and go home to your country to laugh about it.

(Forgive my spelling mistakes, do not use "spell check" here)

Regards
Raymond

I too originally found the continual honking of horns irritating, but riding as a car passenger gave me an opportunity to observe that it appears that horns serve as an "I am right beside" you signal which everyone uses as just one more sensory input and responds to.

I know its going to be hard to learn to drive that way but until you do, you will be irritated and tense and at a more than average risk of accident.

TanRay wrote:

Hi All,
I have read many comments about how bad the drivers are and about the horn that's always on etc etc.

First, I would like to say, we are staying in someone's backyard, the least we can do is understand why its such before putting/writing those comments.

Second, if you thinks its that bad, GO HOME

Third, there are also other countries that I had been and had seen worst behaviours there.

I had been here in north Vietnam for 3 years now. I had two accidents, not serious, with some bruises, that's about all. I learn from the locals a simple LAW, and it's like skiing, "the onus is on the person behind to avoid the person in the front at all cost". What it means is simply, give way to any vehicle that's ahead of you, whether they are coming from the side road or cutting lanes in front of you. Once I understand that, I had no more problems here.

Now, the horn is a way of telling someone that "I'm coming", no offence like in other countries. If you do not wish to give way, just stay in your lane, they would find a way to pass you, so no big deal there.

The only thing I find irritating is the "high beam". Almost all motorist uses the high beam at night. Car drivers will lower their headlights if you "flashes" at them, but most motor cyclist do not. It's not that they are rude, but, I found out that most of them does not know that the "blue" light on the display is information for "high beam". They thought it's for headlight "ON". That I found out from my friends here, :-(

So, for those of us who, have to or want to, stay on, learn from the locals and laugh about it. Live and let live. Life is too short to get mad over such things. Enjoy your time here and go home to your country to laugh about it.

(Forgive my spelling mistakes, do not use "spell check" here)

Regards
Raymond

Absolute classic.

''we are staying in someone's backyard,
the least we can do is understand why its such before putting/writing those ''
Do you mention this fact to immigrants living in your own country?And what is their response?

''Second, if you thinks its that bad, GO HOME''
And what do  the immigrants in your country say when you tell them this? Are they happy for your opinion?

''So, for those of us who, have to or want to, stay on, learn from the locals and laugh about it. Live and let live. Life is too short to get mad over such things. Enjoy your time here and go home to your country to laugh about it.''
Enjoy my time here and then go home to laugh about it?  Are expats here for a laugh?
Have to stay?? or want to stay is synonymous with being in one place regardless of conditions.So where is the conflict?

Not relevant. I like motorbike countries.

The image is for entertainment and educational purposes only

jimbream wrote:

TanRay wrote:

Hi All,
I have read many comments about how bad the drivers are and about the horn that's always on etc etc.

First, I would like to say, we are staying in someone's backyard, the least we can do is understand why its such before putting/writing those comments.

Second, if you thinks its that bad, GO HOME

Third, there are also other countries that I had been and had seen worst behaviours there.

I had been here in north Vietnam for 3 years now. I had two accidents, not serious, with some bruises, that's about all. I learn from the locals a simple LAW, and it's like skiing, "the onus is on the person behind to avoid the person in the front at all cost". What it means is simply, give way to any vehicle that's ahead of you, whether they are coming from the side road or cutting lanes in front of you. Once I understand that, I had no more problems here.

Now, the horn is a way of telling someone that "I'm coming", no offence like in other countries. If you do not wish to give way, just stay in your lane, they would find a way to pass you, so no big deal there.

The only thing I find irritating is the "high beam". Almost all motorist uses the high beam at night. Car drivers will lower their headlights if you "flashes" at them, but most motor cyclist do not. It's not that they are rude, but, I found out that most of them does not know that the "blue" light on the display is information for "high beam". They thought it's for headlight "ON". That I found out from my friends here, :-(

So, for those of us who, have to or want to, stay on, learn from the locals and laugh about it. Live and let live. Life is too short to get mad over such things. Enjoy your time here and go home to your country to laugh about it.

(Forgive my spelling mistakes, do not use "spell check" here)

Regards
Raymond

Absolute classic.

''we are staying in someone's backyard,
the least we can do is understand why its such before putting/writing those ''
Do you mention this fact to immigrants living in your own country?And what is their response?

''Second, if you thinks its that bad, GO HOME''
And what do  the immigrants in your country say when you tell them this? Are they happy for your opinion?

''So, for those of us who, have to or want to, stay on, learn from the locals and laugh about it. Live and let live. Life is too short to get mad over such things. Enjoy your time here and go home to your country to laugh about it.''
Enjoy my time here and then go home to laugh about it?  Are expats here for a laugh?
Have to stay?? or want to stay is synonymous with being in one place regardless of conditions.So where is the conflict?

Not relevant. I like motorbike countries.
[img align=c]http://www.realclassic.co.uk/ridesfiles/founrders15082403.jpg[/url]
The image is for entertainment and educational purposes only

Bring on the pop corn. Oh hell yeah!!!

I just spent a month driving a motor cycle from Ho Chi Minh to Hanoi.  It was the experience of a lifetime! But be warned, it is not for the faint of heart.  If there were only motorbikes in Vietnam (and there are lots) there would be no problem. 

The difficult part is dealing with the construction trucks on the so-called "high-way", as well as the taxi's and buses.  The drivers of those very large vehicles do not have much respect for people on their motorbikes (or pedrestrians)- so always beware!!!

Then there are the individuals who actually own cars. Personal cars are a luxury in Vietnam, as you need to pay something like a 200% import tax to bring foreign cars into the country.  BUT, the people who own then do NOT know how to drive.  They will speed past you, and then 500 metres later they slow down to 15 KPH to look at the stunning views..  So you always have to look out for them.

Having said all that, once you get more inland up north on the Ho Chi Minh trail, the roads are quite nice, and there aren't so many heavy vehicles, except the occasional Laotian tour buses that are driven by much calmer and respectful drivers.

You shouldn't drive very fast in Vietnam. It is not the norm, as life is quite slow and easy there.  Being speedy gets the attention of the police and might cost you a good fine.. Plus if you are too speedy, you will miss all that wonderful county, mountains and oceans.

Cloud9 wrote:

jimbream wrote:

TanRay wrote:

Hi All,
I have read many comments about how bad the drivers are and about the horn that's always on etc etc.

First, I would like to say, we are staying in someone's backyard, the least we can do is understand why its such before putting/writing those comments.

Second, if you thinks its that bad, GO HOME

Third, there are also other countries that I had been and had seen worst behaviours there.

I had been here in north Vietnam for 3 years now. I had two accidents, not serious, with some bruises, that's about all. I learn from the locals a simple LAW, and it's like skiing, "the onus is on the person behind to avoid the person in the front at all cost". What it means is simply, give way to any vehicle that's ahead of you, whether they are coming from the side road or cutting lanes in front of you. Once I understand that, I had no more problems here.

Now, the horn is a way of telling someone that "I'm coming", no offence like in other countries. If you do not wish to give way, just stay in your lane, they would find a way to pass you, so no big deal there.

The only thing I find irritating is the "high beam". Almost all motorist uses the high beam at night. Car drivers will lower their headlights if you "flashes" at them, but most motor cyclist do not. It's not that they are rude, but, I found out that most of them does not know that the "blue" light on the display is information for "high beam". They thought it's for headlight "ON". That I found out from my friends here, :-(

So, for those of us who, have to or want to, stay on, learn from the locals and laugh about it. Live and let live. Life is too short to get mad over such things. Enjoy your time here and go home to your country to laugh about it.

(Forgive my spelling mistakes, do not use "spell check" here)

Regards
Raymond

Absolute classic.

''we are staying in someone's backyard,
the least we can do is understand why its such before putting/writing those ''
Do you mention this fact to immigrants living in your own country?And what is their response?

''Second, if you thinks its that bad, GO HOME''
And what do  the immigrants in your country say when you tell them this? Are they happy for your opinion?

''So, for those of us who, have to or want to, stay on, learn from the locals and laugh about it. Live and let live. Life is too short to get mad over such things. Enjoy your time here and go home to your country to laugh about it.''
Enjoy my time here and then go home to laugh about it?  Are expats here for a laugh?
Have to stay?? or want to stay is synonymous with being in one place regardless of conditions.So where is the conflict?

Not relevant. I like motorbike countries.
[img align=c]http://www.realclassic.co.uk/ridesfiles/founrders15082403.jpg[/url]
The image is for entertainment and educational purposes only

Bring on the pop corn. Oh hell yeah!!!

Hold on to your Pop secrets {BRAND} Popcorn ,Tex.
Expat.com is a dedicated blog for Expatriates living in,and wanting to live in Vietnam.
It is not a blog for meme based,web catchphrase discussion.

Or was the popcorn for the pic of the 1954 B34 bobber?
Be nice to Driving in Vietnam on this.

jonnyboy222 wrote:

One of the worst conventions of driving in Vietnam is when turning right into the main flow of traffic, drivers almost never look backwards at the oncoming traffic before turning. If you are unfortunate to be driving on the right-hand side of the road when someone does this, you have no choice but to swerve over to avoid them (if you have time).

Think of the road as a pipe and understand that water flows most smoothly in the center.  Unless you are turning, stay away from both sides.  For me the problem is that there are a lot of people driving autos and taxis who carry the habits that work for motorbikes over to auto driving.  Emerging motorbikes usually slip into the far right then move over after a quick look back.  Autos can't do that but still emerge from lanes without stopping which can be dangerous.

Drive defensively.  I can't emphasize it enough.  Drive Defensively!

Everyone here is in a hurry and it seems like they all want to get to their destination first.  Most traffic laws are not followed with people turning early, not stopping at intersections, or even paying attention to which side of the road they are on or what lane they are in.

That being said, Saigon traffic is negotiable so long as you
1) Stay Alert
2) Go with the flow whenever possible
3) Pay close attention to those around you
4) Drive confidently (hesitance will get you nowhere except maybe hit)
and of course
5) Drive Defensively

Don't count on motorbikes checking behind them before merging.  I have noticed very few who do so.  Most expect the drivers around them to move for them and therefore do not look.

Life is abiut choices. You decide. I'm not going into a debate over your choice.
I chose to stay here and I'm learning so as to enjoy my stay.

I do believe wrote:

jonnyboy222 wrote:

One of the worst conventions of driving in Vietnam is when turning right into the main flow of traffic, drivers almost never look backwards at the oncoming traffic before turning. If you are unfortunate to be driving on the right-hand side of the road when someone does this, you have no choice but to swerve over to avoid them (if you have time).

Wow! Jonnyboy, you must be new to Vietnam. I have said on this topic numerous times that when entering a roadway you should not be looking to make sure the way is clear. In your country yes, here it is unsafe. It is amazing how so many expats think they know how to drive in Vietnam but don't. The oversize egos of some expats prevents them from learning a whole different philosophy of driving. I was like that for about two years and my Epiphany (sudden realization) humbled me. We expats can be so condescending. Sometimes it is difficult to understand new concepts but we should welcome the new knowledge with open arms instead of hostility.

Can you explain to me how I should handle the situation when a Vietnamese rider on my right zips out in front of me without looking? What am I doing wrong?     Should I copy the way he enters traffic instead of checking first?  If yes, why?

Hi,
When ever you come towards a junction, slow down and observe for traffic that's coming on stream. That's where the horn comes into play, if you see someone close to the intersection. They would still come on stream but did you observe how little space they take up when you just honk them of your presence?
These are just some of the things you learn from the locals. Talk with them over some vodka and you'd be surprised what you can learn from them.
Enjoy your stay in Vietnam.

frankietrish wrote:

Drive defensively.  I can't emphasize it enough.  Drive Defensively!

Everyone here is in a hurry and it seems like they all want to get to their destination first.  Most traffic laws are not followed with people turning early, not stopping at intersections, or even paying attention to which side of the road they are on or what lane they are in.

That being said, Saigon traffic is negotiable so long as you
1) Stay Alert
2) Go with the flow whenever possible
3) Pay close attention to those around you
4) Drive confidently (hesitance will get you nowhere except maybe hit)
and of course
5) Drive Defensively

+1

looking away for a millisecond can cause an accident. sometimes I would look away only for one second and returning just to see another person pretty much right in front of me. we can become complacent to expect driving in Vietnam is anything like home.

cabraman wrote:

What am I doing wrong?

You are riding on the far right.  Just stay near the middle.

cabraman wrote:

Should I copy the way he enters traffic instead of checking first?  If yes, why?

Actually yes and there is a why.  When I first started driving in Vietnam, I used to slow or even stop when coming out of small streets.  My wife would scold me and say that the people behind me would get angry.   As I mentioned above, just pull out tight to the curb, check your mirror, then move left.  Surprisingly, it works.

Once you master that, you can try turning left and going the wrong way against traffic until you see the chance to cross over to the other side.  This is actually illegal.  I had a teaching assistant tell me that he was stopped for it and had his bike impounded too, but it is a normal practice that actually works.

About being hit from behind, I once had to stop short barely avoiding the motorbike in front.  A girl carrying two buckets of tofu then hit me from the back.  The plastic buckets barely hit my rear quarter so I simply turned, smiled and rode away.  At the next light the girl came up to me and said in perfect English: "You are so rude."  I said why and she replied "You didn't say you were sorry."  I replied:  "Let me remind you that I did not hit you, you hit me." but I think she failed to see it that way.  This is a 180 reversal of an iron clad rule of liability in the US.  I really don't know about the legality in Vietnam, but it seems that the custom is that the fault lies with the party that stops.  I do know that what is legal and what is customary certainly can differ in most countries but having such a difference seems to be the norm in Vietnam.

cabraman wrote:

Can you explain to me how I should handle the situation when a Vietnamese rider on my right zips out in front of me without looking? What am I doing wrong?     Should I copy the way he enters traffic instead of checking first?  If yes, why?

stay to the left and slow down to give them room. honk if necessary. you aren't doing anything wrong. drive the way you think is safe for you.

THIGV wrote:

cabraman wrote:

What am I doing wrong?

You are riding on the far right.  Just stay near the middle.

cabraman wrote:

Should I copy the way he enters traffic instead of checking first?  If yes, why?

Actually yes and there is a why.  When I first started driving in Vietnam, I used to slow or even stop when coming out of small streets.  My wife would scold me and say that the people behind me would get angry.   As I mentioned above, just pull out tight to the curb, check your mirror, then move left.  Surprisingly, it works.

Once you master that, you can try turning left and going the wrong way against traffic until you see the chance to cross over to the other side.  This is actually illegal.  I had a teaching assistant tell me that he was stopped for it and had his bike impounded too, but it is a normal practice that actually works.

About being hit from behind, I once had to stop short barely avoiding the motorbike in front.  A girl carrying two buckets of tofu then hit me from the back.  The plastic buckets barely hit my rear quarter so I simply turned, smiled and rode away.  At the next light the girl came up to me and said in perfect English: "You are so rude."  I said why and she replied "You didn't say you were sorry."  I replied:  "Let me remind you that I did not hit you, you hit me." but I think she failed to see it that way.  This is a 180 reversal of an iron clad rule of liability in the US.  I really don't know about the legality in Vietnam, but it seems that the custom is that the fault lies with the party that stops.  I do know that what is legal and what is customary certainly can differ in most countries but having such a difference seems to be the norm in Vietnam.

Thanks for those observations, I,ll take note about how close to the right the Vietnamese ride. Having said that, I have seen,( and have done so myself)  riders overtaking on the right those riders who are riding in the centre, which brings them and me close to that guy who may be coming out suddenly.  The left turn, ride against traffic then change over diagonally when the chance comes I can handle ok. It, like so many other things done on the roads is illegal but I ,ve never seen police bother with it. Seen plenty do it themselves though.

Driving is like a lot of habitual things,  once a person is programmed they can just turn on the program and it runs without much attention being paid to the process.  The first thing I noticed here is how different my driving program was than that of the locals.

In the west our programming included being aware of a set of enforced rules, some of which are totally stupid and impractical,  But they make billions in fines, keep hundred of thousands of people employed enforcing them, and waste billions of hours as people wait at lights, driving needlessly slow or going the long way.  None of that stupidity here, people have the freedom to actually use their good judgment.  Remarkably there is no road rage because there is no expectations laid on the other drivers.  Something which kills or injures thousands of Americans each year.  But they do cut it pretty close and I have seen some bad injuries in the 2 years I have been here.   But all in all when you consider the fact that people here do not wrap themselves in two tons of steel when they go places, statically it seems that letting people make up the rules second by second works about to be about as safe as the western system except for the lost revenue for the government.

Jim Duncalf wrote:

In the west our programming included being aware of a set of enforced rules, some of which are totally stupid and impractical,  But they make billions in fines, keep hundred of thousands of people employed enforcing them, and waste billions of hours as people wait at lights, driving needlessly slow or going the long way.

Vietnamese police collect plenty in fines.  The problem is that it goes in their pockets rather than going to the general welfare.  Western countries put a lot of policemen on the road while Vietnam puts a lot of policemen behind a desk granting red stamps on needless paperwork (and collecting pocket money at the same time.)  Which system leads to fewer accidents?  Also remember, the sensation of speed is greater on a motorbike and your speedometer is in Km.  You're not going as fast as you think you are.

Jim Duncalf wrote:

...statically it seems that letting people make up the rules second by second works about to be about as safe as the western system except for the lost revenue for the government.

I assume you mean statistically, but the statistics would bring you to the opposite conclusion.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c … death_rate

Vietnam is about twice as dangerous as the US which is not that good to start with.  Deaths per 100,000 population:  AU-5.6, UK-3.5, US-11.6, VN-24.7.  Relative numbers for deaths per 100,000 vehicles are similar.  There are plenty of good things about driving in Vietnam, but safety is not one of them.

hallo, why are my posts deleted ?

THIGV wrote:

Jim Duncalf wrote:

In the west our programming included being aware of a set of enforced rules, some of which are totally stupid and impractical,  But they make billions in fines, keep hundred of thousands of people employed enforcing them, and waste billions of hours as people wait at lights, driving needlessly slow or going the long way.

Vietnamese police collect plenty in fines.  The problem is that it goes in their pockets rather than going to the general welfare.  Western countries put a lot of policemen on the road while Vietnam puts a lot of policemen behind a desk granting red stamps on needless paperwork (and collecting pocket money at the same time.)  Which system leads to fewer accidents?  Also remember, the sensation of speed is greater on a motorbike and your speedometer is in Km.  You're not going as fast as you think you are.

Jim Duncalf wrote:

...statically it seems that letting people make up the rules second by second works about to be about as safe as the western system except for the lost revenue for the government.

I assume you mean statistically, but the statistics would bring you to the opposite conclusion.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c … death_rate

Vietnam is about twice as dangerous as the US which is not that good to start with.  Deaths per 100,000 population:  AU-5.6, UK-3.5, US-11.6, VN-24.7.  Relative numbers for deaths per 100,000 vehicles are similar.  There are plenty of good things about driving in Vietnam, but safety is not one of them.

" Also remember, the sensation of speed is greater on a motorbike and your speedometer is in Km.  You're not going as fast as you think you are."     Even at 30kp/h, hitting someone else at the same speed makes it a 60kp/h hit. A neighbour of mine had his lower leg bone snapped into 2 pieces when involved in a hit at much lower speed than that. The passenger foot rest on the other bike suffered no damage.