EXPAT CAR MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR (QUITO)

What requirements of any type does the new owner of a used car here have to address upon purchase and after leaving the lot?

cccmedia in Quito

cccmedia,

That is an excellent question, as with most everything there are hoops required to jump through. In this case there are four;

As the process is a bit on the complicated side, I took an excerpt form El Comercio.com so as to not miss any pertinent points.

People buying used cars should go to four organizations to handle the domain transfer (update the data of the owner). This procedure is mandatory and should be run up to 30 days after signing the contract .

1.The new owners should go to a notary
2. an agency of the Internal Revenue Service (SRI),
3. a central vehicle revision and, ultimately,
4. to an enrollment center. When buying a vehicle they assume the pending registration, fines and review costs . It is recommended that, prior to payment, these details have been determined.

Letty Andrade, Director of Vehicle Registration and Administration of the Metropolitan Transit Agency (AMT), said that people who are interested in purchasing a used vehicle can get this information by Internet and telephone. To make inquiries only requires licence plate number of the car, at www.revisionquito.gob.ec in Vehicle Technical Review bond are the outstanding securities to be canceled to comply with this procedure. Also on the same page entering History Review See no information about the mechanical condition of the vehicle. The penalties and offenses have been committed to the automotive can find in www.ant.gob.ec , the link Check Fines . To know the value of tuition enter www.sri.gob.ec .

From the menu to access most used services and vehicle registration value selections. Before buying the car see if there is any type ban for the automotive market in which you are interested. To do this you must call the AMT at 1800 (268 268). Attention is Monday to Sunday. With all this information, Andrade recommended business. Buyers and sellers must sign a contract of sale of the vehicle and go to one of the 48 notaries who are in Quito for signature recognition. Married people should attend with their spouse. This procedure costs around 15 USD . To do this you must present the identity card, ballot paper, registration, Compulsory Traffic Accident Insurance (SOAT), vehicle history, lien certificate.

The last two documents can be obtained at the registration centers or revision of the AMT. Each costs $ 6.50. The payment is done in any Banco Pacific presenting the original and copy of the identity card, ballot owner of the car, enrollment and SOAT. With this documentation the 'new' owner must go to an agency SRI to pay 1% of the transfer of ownership . The amount is calculated according to the appraisal of the vehicle. The penultimate step in this procedure is to comply with the vehicle technical inspection. It can be done in Guajaló, Guamaní, Chillos Valley, La Florida, San Isidro and Carapungo . In these cases does not apply scheduling system (according to label). Finally, it must pay the value of tuition at any bank. With all the documents, you must go to a registration center in Quitumbe , in the south, or next to the Bicentennial Park in the north, for the new species. For this procedure the presence of the vehicle is required and also the purchaser. That contract, chassis number, engine, safety equipment, the certificate of the technical review, SOAT, tuition and a new species to the data of the current owner will be issued will be reviewed. The domain transfer costs USD 40.

Persons making the process after the deadline will be penalized with USD 17 and 1.5 points below the license to drive. Don't forget The mechanical condition of the vehicle consultation www.revisionquito.gob.ec Outstanding fines is determined by the number of plaques in www.ant.gob.ec The value of tuition is obtained by accessing the page of SRI: www.sri.gob.ec To find out if there are impediments to sell the car call 1800 268 268.

Keep in mind to verify that the characteristics of the car (plates, color ...) are correct. Sign the contract and go to a notary for signature recognition. Go to the SRI contract and cancel the 1% for the transfer of ownership. Meets the technical vehicle review in any of the eight centers. Pay the tuition, Compulsory Traffic Accident Insurance. Get the new species in a registration center. Take the vehicle. TAGS
This information has been provided from El Comercio.com. Dated 2014

It is advised to call in advance if there are any questions. It sounds like quite a drill but is not as bad as it may sound. The key, as always is to have all your paperwork etc. ready to go.

Thanks for the posts…….definitely owning a car here is different……more expensive initial costs, but the cars maintain value better also…
One of the first things to do if looking for a used car is to find out the status of replacement parts (repuestos)…..a hint may be looking around at what cars are common……but there are always exceptions, so ask.
You can also check our the placa (lic plate) to check for problems on-line……
As for repair, standard transmissions are the preference here for sure and it is far easier to get them worked on….
As for the costs of repair, including repuestos…….in my experience of 2 cars here, it is easier and less expensive…….
Vaya con Dios

AMDG,

As stated above the import problem does affect having a car. In the future it looks like Asian cars and E.U. cars will be okay, anything could happen though.

Buying a popular model is a good idea, I would avoid the Audi, BMW and other high dollar ones. The roads here are hell on the suspension, besides in town I see no point in having a performance car, it stands as more of a status symbol or bragging point in my opinion.

I find it very comical when I see cars with all kinds of performance part stickers on them.. One the other day displayed a Magnaflow exhaust sticker, the exhaust however sounded very close to a coffee can.

The bad thing about stickers which advertise high dollar parts or excessories, they only serve to make you a potential target of theft!

I have read that most cars imported to Ecuador for sale here are stripped-down models.

I suppose this means standard transmission, no power windows, no radio or entertainment option.

In your experience, what percent of used cars for sale at under $12,000 have standard transmission?

What is the best shop or cadena for Expats wanting installation of non-EC-standard options?

Thanks for your earlier detailed listing of newly-purchased vehicle requirements.

cccmedia in Quito

Maintenance Tip #1

With the possibility of volcanic ash reaching Quito, a little prevention will go a long way to protect your car.

Firstly, as all good Expats do, stay informed so you are not caught off guard. When ash is pending, cover your car with old sheets or anything suitable. If the ash will be accompanied by rain, try to park in a covered area, or cover with plastic. Plastic can be purchased in bulk at Kiwi, and is fairly cheap.

If you do get caught, I recommend the following actions;

The key is to clean your car carefully and effectively. To do this you need to do the following:

Wet the car thoroughly to loosen dust deposits, do NOT wipe with a dry cloth and equally do NOT hose at high pressure (the equivalent of sandblasting it!.
Use a car shampoo (pH neutral to counter the sulfuric acid) to remove the dust particles.
Use 2 buckets of water so as not to reintroduce the particles once wiped off and make sure to rinse the sponge regularly throughout.
Ensure you wash all crevices such as around the windshield and windows, dust may have gathered in these places and may scratch the windows when operated.
If you see residual dust on your car and are not sure if it is volcanic ash then wash your car according to the instructions above. At worst, you will have a clean car at the end of it!

As an extra barrier of protection, a good fresh coat of quality wax would be a good idea.

As usual cccmedia poses a very good question.

Most cars today, even many less expensive models normally come with power windows, and will have a basic stereo or head unit. Generally a factory stereo will have a CD player. You can opt for "Hand Powered Windows" to save a little money. Many cars here without options is to keep costs down and make it more affordable. They are ordered that way by the dealer.

As far as transmissions go, a basic 5 speed transmission is easier to repair, as they have fewer or no electronic controls. Many believe a manual is cheaper and easier to maintain. This has been a point of argument among mechanics, and race car drivers for as long as the Ford vs Chevy argument has been around. I'm a Dodge man myself.

Having owned many of both and repaired both, this is my view on the subject. A manual transmission has 5 consumable parts which after time and depending on driving habits require replacement.

1. Flywheel: Which is attached to the rear of the engine.
2. Friction Disk: Which is between the flywheel and the pressure plate.
3. Pressure Plate: Completes the sandwich of the friction disk.
4. Clutch Bearing: Rides on the clutch fork, and releases tension of the pressure plate.
5. Clutch Fork: Holds Clutch bearing, is attached to pedal.

BASIC OPERATION: When you depress the clutch pedal a cable or hydraulic pressure moves the clutch fork releasing the pressure plate, allowing the friction disc to spin freely. When the pedal is released the friction disk is sandwiched and allows the transfer of rotational power from the engine, through the transmission, down the drive shaft to the axle and finally turning the wheels. Same concept, but a little different with front wheel drive.

Now, when driving especially in an area with hills, many people partially release the clutch pedal in preparation to start up a hill. This allows the disc to spin while in partial contact with the flywheel. This causes wear on both. The same occurs when shifting gears. The slower the clutch is released the greater the wear. The disc is designed to wear and be replaced often, this saves wear on the more expensive flywheel and pressure plate. The gears in the transmission are pretty tough, but can be damaged without proper clutch use. Transmissions now are "Synchronized", this means parts in the transmission "Synchronizers" allow gears to be changed while the transmission continues to rotate. Old trucks did not have this and required what is called double clutching to change gears.     

Using a manual transmission can be fuel efficient, as long as the proper gear is used. It is important to know the max speed for each gear, which relates to the shift point for that gear. When I say max speed, I don't mean the speed reached with the pedal to the floor. In any gear you can only achieve a certain speed, no matter how hard you mash the accelerator. Doing this will result in over speed of the engine and failure. The idea is to change gears at the proper speed (Shift Point) to remain in the engines power band. Using to low of a gear causes higher engine speeds, and using to high a gear loads the engine. In both cases the engine is not in the power band. This causes increased fuel use, and increased wear. Even lite pressure on the clutch pedal "Riding The Clutch" increases and speeds wear. Hot dogging, popping the clutch etc. all add to, and speed up wear of all the parts mentioned.

An automatic transmission, in simple terms, is controlled by fluid which shifts through the gears at the correct speed consistently (Key Point). There is no metal to metal wear of parts, and no pedal to push. You shift into the proper gear; Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive, 1, or 2  press the accelerator pedal and your off. At a stop the pressure decreases allowing the brakes to hold the car until the accelerator is applied then the pressure increases driving the car. This a very, simple explanation. There is a great deal going on inside the transmission, and it is monitored by the cars (ECM) electronic control module or modules. This system has been around for a very long time and is very efficient and low maintenance. Yes, as with anything it can be damaged. With proper regular maintenance they last for hundreds of thousands of miles. With as little as fluid and filter changes...

So the advantages are; less maintenance (Cheaper), better fuel economy, reliability, and there is no need to dance as you drive.  Driving a manual in Quito can give you a good workout, start-stop, hill-stop, hill-start, repeat...

There are shops in Quito that service automatics. As a rule a car with an automatic will have a bit higher price tag. I feel the ease of use, reliability, and lower maintenance easily make up for the difference over a short period of time. Many folks here, in my opinion are simply afraid of the automatic, mostly because they don't understand what it is and how it works. Not to mention the benefits of one.

For example, when we bought our latest car (2013 Nissan Versa), it has an automatic. The wife's family all cringed and told my wife all the horror stories associated with an automatic (All Unfounded). Even though my wife countered with my experience as a mechanic and owning over 20 plus cars, trucks, motorcycles, ATV's, boats, jet ski's etc. they scoffed.

We went and looked at the car. I simply handed her the key and said drive it.... After a brief, this is how it works, and don't use your left foot anymore, she was driving, with an EAR TO EAR smile... Her only comment. "WOW". Yep, WOW. What was a stressful, tiring event is now an enjoyable, relaxing operation. Well, as relaxing as can be in Quito...      

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. You can speak to my wife at any point.

As far as shops to add luxury additions, they do exist, But, the parts which are imported, come at a price and with installation can be prohibitive. There are many shops along Amazonas and other streets, that will gladly do this for you. The issue I have is that the quality of work and reliability is in question. I have annoyed more than few local mechanics with my questions as to why they are doing it this way or that.. They prefer to take short cuts, which in the end cause problems down the road, and it can be an expensive learning curve. Can you have it done, Yes. Do I recommend it, NO.

If you look around you will see MANY vehicles that have been modified in one way or another. Many cars look like they are right out of "The Fast and Furious". Without the added performance. On newer cars the electrical system is monitored and adjusted by the ECM. When numerous lights (LEDs) and such are added without regard to the installed system, this causes havoc with the ECM and can result in failure. An ECM can set you back up to $5K, that's $5,000.00, not including the import fees. This is why it is not uncommon for ECMs to be stolen here in Ecuador.

Cars for under $12k with a manual transmission, in the U.S. maybe 25%. Here in Ecuador, I would guess 85-90%. There are more automatic transmissions out there than you might think, many of the high dollar cars and trucks will have them. As stated earlier the cheaper cars, especially small cars (2 Door Coups) will have a manual to make them more affordable in Ecuador's market.

I hope I was able to make this as clear as possible. I apologize for the lengthily post. It was needed for clarity.

cccmedia wrote:

I have read that most cars imported to Ecuador for sale here are stripped-down models.  I suppose this means standard transmission, no power windows, no radio or entertainment option...cccmedia in Quito

My neighbor in our little gated community bought a KIA Sportage.  It has all the bells an whistles. Quite nice inside and very comfortable to ride in.   It is a stick.  Another friend here in Cuenca bought a VW sedan with automatic.

GMC(SW) also wrote:  Many folks here, in my opinion are simply afraid of the automatic...  My friend with the VW automatic was returning to the States and sold it to a young lady.  She asked him to drive her home as she did not know how to drive an automatic...go figure.  I would hazard a guess, based on pure anecdotes, that many in the US do not know how to drive a stick...and so it goes as Kurt Vonnegut used to write.

quito0819,

To some extent you are correct.

In the U.S. the people who mainly use a manual transmission (Stick), are ones with farms or ranches, 4x4 enthusiasts, sports car drivers.

For pulling a trailer some prefer a manual, and in situations where you need more low end power a manual comes in handy. It allows better torque control at low speeds, because the first gear especially is very low. You can walk next to most trucks in first gear. For sport drivers it allows more control over shift points and makes faster shifts possible.

But yes, many people now in the U.S. do not know how to drive a manual. They simply are not as popular, or common as they once were.  Depending on where you live it really varies. In snow country, you will find a good deal of both. So today it comes down to necessity and personal preference. Both Manual and automatic have their good and not so good aspects.

The price difference can have an impact, but I can't remember the last time someone said they would buy a manual  due to lower price..

Now over the road trucks or tractors, almost always have a manual transmission. But it is needed in that application. They also have 10 gears or more and can split shift using 71/2 gear when needed due to the heavy loads.

I think it is generational.  Those of us who grew up in the 50s and early 60s all knew how to drive stick - there were very few automatics...it was also cool to say your car was a stick.

A long way from that time, I appreciate the automatic.  Even the Chinese scooter I have is automatic.

Is car financing as popular in Ecuador as in the States?

Does a Gringo with no credit-record have a chance in El Infierno of getting financing on a new or used car, either from a dealer or a bank, with the car as collateral?

Are there repo men in Ecuador?

cccmedia in Quito

You got it,

There is allot to be said for having a free hand while driving, cruise control can be nice also. Things going the way they are before long cars will drive themselves or follow magnetic tracks. Making the driver just another passenger.

cccmedia wrote:

Is car financing as popular in Ecuador as in the States?

Does a Gringo with no credit-record have a chance in El Infierno of getting financing on a new or used car, either from a dealer or a bank, with the car as collateral?

Are there repo men in Ecuador?

cccmedia in Quito

I only know one person (expat) who financed a car here in Cuenca.  As I remember it there was a healthy downpayment and, because of age, had to take out insurance that would pay off the vehicle in case of death.  our bext door neighbor just financed a new vehicle for his daughter.  I'll ask around if you are interested.

HMMMM,

I know financing is not as in the U.S. It may be different with a new car, but for used it seems a cash deal or a lone from your bank. We paid the bulk with profits from the first car sale then put the balance on a credit card.

To get a significant loan from the bank required a cosigner, who also had an account at the same bank. So it does not seem as if they have numerous finance centers as we are used to in the U.S.

Also, how or who determines the value of the car? I have not found a NADA, or Blue Book of any kind so far. The current method of roughly $1k a year depreciation is not only crude but way off the mark in high mileage cars.

While we shopped for cars you would be surprised what you might find... Many had trash in them, were dirty, drink spills on plastics, or not even vacuumed out. Not to mention the very questionable history of the car. We got all kinds of strange answers to that one. Most were clearly B.S.

When buying a used car here, it is literally, a what you see is what you get proposition. If it has bad tires, damage etc. you buy it as well.

That is one reason I thought this thread would be of use, due to the fact that if you do not know what to look for you could be buying a real "Lemon". With the high mileage of most used cars here and the condition of the roads, you can almost guarantee there will be something that needs attention. Especially with the suspension.

One dealer kindly asked us to leave.... I showed up prepared, with flashlight, magnet, rags and a piece of carpet to lay on to get under the car. After about 15 minutes I drew a small crowd of buyers watching what I was doing. Nodding their heads and waving their arms. One man asked if I would look at the car they were in the process of buying (Mistake). After an initial check of the front end I told him the shock one one side was blown and the tie rod was bent. This is an indication of an accident.

The sales people were not happy, and insisted I had no idea what I was talking about, and became quite agitated.
I quietly said okay, well look at this. I bounced the front corner of the car and a pronounced clunk and swish could be heard. "Nuff Said". The potential buyer moved on and we were asked to please go away....

I guess you can't please everyone.

My wife is a Human Resources Chief,

She tells me that many employees can get a lien or automatic deductions from their pay for many loans. As long as they are an employee, if they quit or get fired it's on them.

Regarding milage on cars here…….they are often turned back, even the electronic ones……
My wives nephew had it done……and it is commonly known here among my wife's kids and friends…….

AMDG,

I would be very interested to find out, exactly how they are doing this. Especially on newer cars.

GMC(SW) wrote:

I showed up prepared, with flashlight, magnet, rags and a piece of carpet to lay on to get under the car. After about 15 minutes I drew a small crowd of buyers watching what I was doing. Nodding their heads and waving their arms. One man asked if I would look at the car they were in the process of buying. After an initial check of the front end I told him the shock on one side was blown and the tie rod was bent. This is an indication of an accident.

The sales people were not happy, and insisted I had no idea what I was talking about, and became quite agitated.

I quietly said okay, well look at this. I bounced the front corner of the car and a pronounced clunk and swish could be heard. "Nuff Said". The potential buyer moved on and we were asked to please go away.

This is a great anecdote, GMC, and a cautionary tale for Gringos who think they can safely navigate the used-car-sales market in Ecuador without some experienced assistance.

Great job on initiating this thread and then educating us brilliantly.

cccmedia in Quito

Yes, you need to be very cautious in buying a car here…….
I have taken the car to our mechanic for inspection before buying……
Cavete Emptor

quito0819 wrote:

cccmedia wrote:

Does a Gringo with no credit-record have a chance in El Infierno of getting financing on a new or used car, either from a dealer or a bank, with the car as collateral?

Are there repo men in Ecuador?

cccmedia in Quito

Our next door neighbor just financed a new vehicle for his daughter.  I'll ask around if you are interested.

Sure.  See what you can find out about those repo "tipos."

ok, cc

Howdy,

Questions have come up regarding buying a used car here in Ecuador.

One thing you have to remember is that in the U.S. as well as other places, in a one on one with a used car owner you have the power of negotiation. It is possible and even expected to haggle a bit over price.

This is not so much the case here in Ecuador. With an owner you may be able to get a little better on the price, but it seems they have a preconceived notion that a car will loose roughly 1K (1,000.00) a year. How they came to this I have not yet found a single coherent answer. They do not use a "Blue Book", or NADA guide as used in the U.S. which gives a score based on mileage, condition, maintenance records, accessories/options etc. If you are dealing with a consignment dealer which many people seem to use it is even harder to negotiate, as the dealer wants to make as much off the deal as possible. Even worse the dealers seem to have very little knowledge of the cars background.

Due to this phenomenon, it is imperative that you thoroughly check the car out, and I mean everything !. While you can take it to a trusted mechanic, a complete inspection is time consuming and there are many little tell tale signs to look for. So as nice as your mechanic may be, will he really dedicate 2 hours to an inspection? Maybe, maybe not. There are many things the "Average Guy" can check on his or her own, based on the model of car. I can provide a pretty detailed list that you can use as a good starting point, and your mechanic can check off during further inspection. How detailed you get is up to the person, if little nicks and dings are not an issue and repaired damage is okay, then the task is easier. If A to B transportation is your goal, then you would focus on the drive train and safety systems etc.

People in Ecuador seem to have great pride in their cars, and seem to take pretty good car of them. It is not uncommon to see a car that still has the plastic on the seats etc. The problem comes in when they have maintenance, repairs, modifications, or upgrades made by questionable shops. While I have found poor mechanics in the U.S. what I see here is more along the lines of lack of proper training or taking short cuts, which can and often do lead to future problems. 

It has been brought up that odometer resets, or changes are occurring in Ecuador, they are very common in the U.S. The newer electronic odometers can be easily reset or changed, but require the use of a pricey electronic tool or electronic knowledge to extract the proper chip from the car and reprogram it. In lieu of taking the dash apart there are common signs that can indicate the correct mileage is not being displayed.   

I don't mean you should have outright distrust, but one should NEVER assume anything. I have seen a few of the top dollar shops and technicians make simple mistakes. So for the average person it pays to verify you are getting what you have paid for. Again there are ways to ensure the work or service was performed without causing a scene, if you want to know more let me know.

MAINTENANCE TIP #2

Vehicle Service Inspections / Dealer Warranty Inspections

Recently the Mother in law was contacted to bring in her SUV for a dealer service inspection. These inspections can be found in the owners manual and are mileage driven. The inspection can consist of 5 to 25 line items and are mostly "Check and Inspect" items. What this means is the service person checks for wear, damage, or leakage and if nothing is found moves onto the next item.

Having worked as a Service Technician at two major dealerships in the U.S. I performed a great deal of these inspections. Normally they did not take longer than 30 minutes start to finish. My issue is that the inspections can cost a substantial amount of money, in this case $700.00. This in my mind is not only insane, but clearly robbery. They are taking advantage of the fact that many people have no knowledge in this area, and are "Trusting" the dealership. 

As far as I am concerned, trust in a dealership is an oxy moron. Especially having worked at some. Now this does not mean that dealership mechanics are all bad. But one thing you need to understand is, a dealership will display a huge banner indicating they are an, ASE, Automotive Service Excellence shop. Meaning they have ASE certified technicians. However, they only need one (1) ASE technician to make this claim.. It may be 1 out of 17.... In both large dealerships I worked in there were only 3 ASE technicians, and I was one of them. That's just the way it is. The other mechanics had various levels of knowledge, from various sources.

A car which is under warranty, must succumb to service inspections in order to maintain warranty coverage. There are a few, loop holes but not many. They have you, and they know it. Once the warranty period has expired, and no extended warranty has been purchased, you are no longer required to continue these inspections. As a rule at any time your vehicle is serviced, a properly trained mechanic should perform a basic inspection of "All" major or safety related systems. Which happen to be, in most cases the same items on the service inspection lists.   

It is not a matter of not having trust or confidence in people, I simply want to limit the possibility of damage or possible loss of life to a minimum. A proactive attitude towards proper vehicle maintenance and repairs helps mitigate these risks.

The only "Stupid Question", is the one not asked. If you have a question or an experience to relate, let's hear it.

I would not feel comfortable buying a used car from an owner, GMC, especially now that you indicate the savings would be minimal compared to buying at a dealership.

What if I paid him and then suddenly the owner, his accomplice and the car disappeared?

Seeking recourse or getting the elusive car could be a disaster.

Do you agree that Gringos are a target for used-car scamming -- and I don't mean odometer retracing?!

How would your organize the money-for-car exchange to avoid this scenario?

cccmedia in Quito

CCCMEDIA,

Unfortunately, Expats, are excellent scam targets. Especially if they speak little or no Spanish. Not to mention the fact that they simply will not understand the system in place. As you have pointed out many times to potential Expats, come and see for yourself, don't make a decision based on little information etc. Similar logic applies here as well. If a person is in the market for a car, moto etc. It really is a good idea to find out all the required hoops to navigate "Before" the car is in the driveway. I heard of several cases of "Bait and Switch" situations, where a car is advertised, then you get there and it is a different car altogether. So be careful about going to out of the way places to buy a car.

As I said in an earlier post, a used car here is pretty much a what you see is what you get proposition, don't expect to knock off $300.00 for bad tires etc. If it needs repairs, you will own them. I have found that they are very reluctant to do anything out of there own pocket. Could you get lucky and find a seller who will work with you? Sure, just don't count on it. That is why I stress, a very good check of the car.

Just because you are at a new car dealership does not mean you automatically assume everything works.... New cars can have issues also. Push every button, ring every bell. Once it gets off the lot, it could be a hassle getting them to fix something you missed. While it is true that a new car should work, it would be a long hot summer if the A/C does not work and the dealer has trouble getting parts, remember where you are.

Payment, if you shop cash in hand, check would be better, you should be good to go. If you decide on a car and go back in 24 hours, check the car again! You have no idea what has happened since you saw it last. If you buy through a used dealer the same applies. The dealer will, or should have all the documents for the car sale, if they do not. "DO NOT" give them a dime.....  Also verify the VIN  (Vehicle Identification Number) matches the paperwork, before you pay !!.

If you have financing the funds should be transferred to the dealer. You sign the paperwork, get the keys and your done. Payment to the seller is done by the dealer after they take their cut. We talked with the bank and arranged the release of funds for the next day in the morning, that way we could be at the dealers and verify the car was there. The bank assured us that once released to the dealer, if they cannot produce the vehicle, stolen, washed away by magma flow etc. the funds would be returned. If you feel uneasy about the dealer, have a proven lawyer assist. CCCMEDIA has an experienced Expat lawyer, that would be perfect. If you have doubts step back, and go no further until they are resolved.

If dealing with the owner, it is best to pay with a personal check if possible or bank draft. You could even go to the bank and conduct the transaction there, with cash, if you choose. Providing you have a local account. This removes the cash issue. 

Expats need to keep in mind, that what may work back home, very well may not here. You should almost expect it. You have to cover the what if's as best you can, if you feel the legal system back home is hard to navigate, you will be entering Dante's Inferno here.

Another point of concern,

If you are looking to buy a car, moto etc. Establish "Who", will be responsible if the car dies and requires towing or if there is an accident while doing the test drive. A car for sale may or may not have insurance. If you have car insurance, be sure that it will cover you on a test drive. 

If you are in doubt, have the seller or dealer drive. That situation could be a potential nightmare. They may be friendly upon meeting, but not so much after a problem occurs. Protect yourself.

This is the very point of this "Thread", to assist fellow Expats. To educate and advise others through personal experience and collective wisdom.

GMC(SW) wrote:

The bank assured us that once released to the dealer, if they cannot produce the vehicle -- stolen, washed away by magma flow etc. -- the funds would be returned.  If you feel uneasy about the dealer, have a proven lawyer assist.  cccmedia has an experienced Expat lawyer, that would be perfect....

You have to cover the what if's as best you can, if you feel the legal system back home is hard to navigate, you will be entering Dante's Inferno here.

That lawyer is the one who accompanied me to ANT (the Ecuadorian DMV) last week and cleared up my drivers license issue, in a meeting with Ecuador's top drivers-license official.  Last year, he got me my residency visa....

Attorney Sebastian Cordero, scordero(at)gcabogados.com ...  He's an Ecuadorian who has mastered English as well.  He's still based in Quito but just told me that the majority of his clients are on the EC coast now and he goes there each month.

The full story about how Sebastian assisted me with the drivers-license problem is in the latest postings on the Ecuador forum's Car Lovers thread.  Use the searchbox atop this page to navigate over there if you're interested.

cccmedia in Quito

cccmedia,

Thanks for the information, I have him in my contacts form the first time you mentioned his name.

I would strongly advise all Expats, do the same. You never know when you may need a competent lawyer, having his number on speed dial could be very handy as well.

So, I'm planning on buying a small fleet of suzuki and honda bikes for a rental business. Any tips, suggestions, words of encouragement, or heckling of my optimistic business plan would be appreciated. I'm looking at buying used bikes in the 1k to 1.5k range. Mostly 125cc. I want to stay away from the Chinese bikes for obvious reasons and the expensive higher cc bikes because it's going to be a high risk rental biz. I might buy a couple Ranger quads, even though I suspect they are Chinese garbage. I want to be able to add a couple atvs to the fleet without dropping more than 2k a piece.

I'm no gear head, so I'm sure I have a lot to learn and will be posting all sorts of questions. I plan on hiring an in house mechanic, but I need to know enough to know if he knows what he's doing.

jessekimmerling wrote:

I'm planning on buying a small fleet of suzuki and honda bikes for a rental business. Any tips, suggestions, words of encouragement, or heckling of my optimistic business plan would be appreciated.... it's going to be a high risk rental biz.

Make sure your insurance is solid for all possible liabilities.

And make sure you choose a  conserje who is impeccably honest. 

Also, get as much input as you can from others already doing this or who have experience with such.  It's possible there are pitfalls you and we on the forum wouldn't think of. 

It's intelligent of you to realize that the business will probably be risky.  Especially since it's likely to be a cash business and you probably won't be present to supervise most of the transactions.

cccmedia in Quito

JK,

It is unfortunate that we are not more closely located, as I would be more than willing to offer not only advise, but jump at the chance to get my hands dirty.

Motorcycles can be reliable and easier to maintain than most cars, the first hurdle I see is the issue of parts. Suzuki and Honda would be very good models to use as they are not overly priced like Yamaha and Kawasaki can be. Also the exotic brands would be even harder to maintain.

What type of rental activity are you looking at? Street use, off road, both? If both an "Enduro" would be best suited for this use. This type of Moto, will have the aspects of a dirt bike along with headlight, turn signals, mirrors, tail light etc. This enables them to be used off road, and also be legal for street use.

Staying within the 125 cc range would be good as parts and maintenance are more affordable, while still having more than adequate power for most riders. I have taken the family to Banos, and rented bikes and quads. They had a decent selection of bikes, all I saw were off brand however. I rode a 250cc with my wife, it was okay but not up to the normal standards I was used to, as far as quality and performance.

The owner was surprised and actually commented to my wife, He told her that many people who rent from him "say" they can ride, but very often have trouble getting out of the drive way. He was amazed when I performed a thorough inspection of the bikes, prior to use. This tells me that he incurs allot of damage from people dropping the bikes. This can result in anything from; torn hand grips, broken levers, pegs, bent bars, fender damage or more costly parts like case covers, electrics etc. The point being, even relatively inexpensive parts like hand grips can add up, or be hard to supply.

The way he operated was, to rent from the shop in town and you get a map to follow. This takes you through town and puts you on a road with normal traffic to various scenic spots. This was not really what I had in mind, as I was more looking for some off road "Supercross" type action. He keeps your DL while you are out. All in all it was fun.

There is a pretty substantial off road following that I have found here. The problem is places to ride. If a person had a chunk of land and set it up with not only trails but had a track with even entry level jumps, turns etc. I think it would be pretty popular. If you rented bikes for use, it would be a home run. I know I would be there every weekend.

Buying used bikes to start would be the smartest thing to do. You would have to expect less than perfect bikes, but they would need to be mechanically sound, and safe to operate. Keeping in mind that many renters may very well be novice riders at best.

If it were me, I would start by finding a source for parts and accessories. If you cannot maintain the bikes you are done before you start. This would be not only for parts, but consumables as well; fluids, filters, tires, tubes, chains spark plugs etc.

As far as a reliable mechanic goes that may be sticky spot. My wife is the Human Relations Chief at a company here in Quito. She interviews for various positions requiring technical knowledge and special skills. I have helped her by putting together, knowledge tests, as well as practical tests to show competence. There is a big problem in Ecuador with people "Over" writing their resumes or "CV" as they call it. Many will claim knowledge or experience and will clearly not have it. For example; she recently posted openings for a position "Requiring" excellent English verbal skills. She wound up with 30 plus candidates, luckily there was only one opening and she had two (2) viable candidates. The same happens for most other areas as well, sales, administration, supervision, technical etc. It is very common to have employees who have no practical knowledge what so ever, but were hired due to a family members influence. Also having local employees can be harder than you may think. You must pay according to the laws which includes additional wages during the year. Not to mention the fact that if you are to fire one, you will owe that person 3 months pay as severance. So that bears looking into as well.

About the only way to find a good mechanic in my mind would be to perform testing of "basic" skills and knowledge at first then move on to a practical demonstration. I know this sounds like an ordeal, but your mechanic will be a key person. As such he will need to be proficient and knowledgeable. Even the dirt bikes now have electric ignition etc.  When you get closer to that point, I can be of more help, in finding someone if you like.

As cccmedia pointed out, you need to know the liability involved, and talk to others who are doing the same. I know there is a rental shop here in Quito, they rent to mostly adventurers who want to travel the country on a bike. I believe it is run by either Americans or Canadians, and they rent larger 650cc bikes etc.

MAINTENANCE TIP #3

TIRES;

Tires are a very important item which is often overlooked in the scheme of car care. There is almost no other automobile part that can have as much impact on vehicle operation as the tires.

The tires have a function in; handling, ride, fuel economy and performance. Tires are consumable parts that require frequent attention. The number one factor in tire performance is air pressure. It is critical for proper performance that tires be kept at the proper inflation. A tire pressure gauge should be purchased and kept in the vehicle. They are easy to use and require no special knowledge or skills.

Ideally, tire pressure should be checked at each use. This is not practical for most, so at a minimum it should be checked at each tank of gas, or once a week. Tire pressures should be checked when the tires are cold, prior to use. If you have driven more than a couple of miles the pressure will be increased due to the expansion of the air as it gets warmer. A car is not supported by it's tires, it rides on the air in the tires.

The correct tire application and pressure can be found on a sticker inside the drivers side door on the door frame. 

WARNING: This pressure is for the original size tires from the manufacturer. If the tires have been changed, or are of a different size, or manufacturer the pressure could be different. If in doubt, use the max pressure listed on the tire side wall. It will be embedded in the rubber, and may be hard to see, but it will be there. If you have driven around and the tire is warm to the touch you can reduce the pressure by a pound or two without problem. After the car has been parked overnight check again and release any over pressure. 

Tires are made of rubber, being a petroleum product the oils prolong the tire life. Never use chemicals on the tires that could dry out the tires. Even dish soap, can breakdown or remove oils, don't wash your car or tires with dish soaps. I do not recommend the use of chemicals said to keep tires clean and black. As with the car use a mild car wash soap. If you just have to have your tires black, I suggest using a natural oil, like peanut oil or even olive oil. A light coat of oil will will keep tires black without affecting the tire. Us oil only on the side wall, and not on the tread. A thin coat is all that is needed as you do not want oil sitting along the rim of the wheel between the rubber and the metal. Dampen a cloth, wipe it on and remove excess with another dry cloth. With any oil or tire product you may have a buildup of dirt that will stick to the oils.

Over time tires will begin to dry and you will see small cracks on the sidewall. This is normal. Tires can last 50,000 or more miles, depending on driving habits, inflation pressures and road conditions. It is best to check your tires tread every six months. There is a tread gauge you can use, but if you can't find one use a Lincoln penny. With Lincolns head down, and facing you, insert the penny into the tread. If you can see all of Lincolns head, it is time for tires. Also tires have a tread wear indicator built in. If you look at a well used tire at some point in the tread you will see small blocks between the tread., When the tire wears down even with the blocks, time to change. It is also important to have the little black caps on the stem where you inflate the tire. This prevents dirt from entering the air valve and blocking it. They are inexpensive, and often stolen, or forgotten by service people. Keep a pack of spares in the car.

Tires come in many sizes. Your tires were engineered to provide the best combination of handling, fuel economy and performance for that car. Adding taller, shorter, wider tires causes problems. A wider tire puts more weight on the axle, and causes more resistance. Taller or shorter makes no difference, and taller tires can come into contact with the body or steering components causing damage.

When replacing tires ensure you get the same size as indicated on the sticker inside the drivers door. Don't let the sales person talk you into something else. Tires can range from $20.00 to over $100.00 a tire for a performance tire. With the poor road conditions in Ecuador it makes no sense to buy a performance tire which will have a higher speed rating. You will find few places to go fast anyway, and replacement costs will be higher. After installation of new tires, check tire inflation pressure, verify the valve caps are there, and turn the steering wheel all the way left and right to ensure no contact with other parts.

The front tires normally wear the fastest, and in a front wheel drive are the most important. You can rotate good front tires to the rear and install new tires in the front. In this way you are only buying two tires at a time. NEVER, mix tire sizes, types or brands. The front can be brand "A", and the rear can be brand "B" as long as they are all the same size. Mixing tires can cause handling problems. Ensure they are all inflated to the same pressure.


Most tire problems (flats) are from; under inflation (which can damage the wheel), over inflation (which can cause a blow out), sharp objects that can puncture the tread or side wall. Also the high curbs found here can damage the side walls of tires and the wheels. NEVER use or bend back a bent wheel.

All tires are made to the same basic standards, the brand chosen is more of a matter of personal choice. Here I would lean towards an all weather tire or rain tire. Aggressive tires with large tread patterns are fine for off road use. In town they cause added resistance and offer no better traction.   

WARNING: When ever a wheel is removed from the car, The lug nuts need to be torqued to a certain specification. If they are simply installed with a pneumatic air wrench (Impact Wrench) they will be over tightened. This can result in a wheel shearing  or breaking the studs, and the wheel coming off the car at speed. When the wheels are being installed after being off the car for any reason, watch the service person. This is what you should see;

1. A check of the studs to ensure no damaged threads. DO NOT ALLOW USE OF OILS OR ANTI SEIZE COMPOUNDS.
2. There should be no rust or debris on the back of the wheel mating surface or the axle matting surface.
3. The lugs should be installed in a crossing pattern, not one after the other in either direction.
4. The lug nuts should be started (By Hand), then a tightening tool used to obtain the initial torque, following the same pattern.
5.  At this time a torque tool should be used to obtain the final torque. At the proper torque the tool will snap, or bend. If the lug nut is turned more than one (1) full turn without snapping etc. It should be re tightened with a wrench. If the torque tool snaps with "NO" movement of the lug nut, it is over tight, and should be loosened and re done.

Shop rules are not as in the U.S. and it is common for customers to be in the work area. So take advantage of this and watch what they are doing. Is this extreme? Maybe, but just last weekend a transportation (BUS) company had two rear wheels come of the bus while on the road with passengers onboard.  So you decide......

I'd wager that you have come up with parking rules, GMC.

By that I refer to where/how to park so as to maximize the likelihood that when you come back ... your car will be where you parked it ... and in no-worse condition.

What are your Parking Rules?

cccmedia in Quito

Thanks GMC. Good advice. Yeah, my business model in Canoa is going to be a bit different than Freedom Cycles in Quito. It's a younger and more European crowd in Canoa. I'm planning on a mixed fleet. Small road bikes for the Ruta del Sol and a couple very nice curvy roads that loop into the hills, enduros for some nice off road tracks and trails I know hidden away in the area. My wife has run a couple businesses in Ecuador and knows the ins and outs of the labor laws. The practical test is a great idea for screening mechanics.

I didn't plan on carrying much insurance. Just SOAT. I had some alternative ideas for dealing with damaged or "lost" bikes that depends on making friends with the local police. Like most Ecuadorian businesses, when it really comes down to it, liability isn't much of an issue.

JK,

Bikes that have been wrecked or abandoned, could be a good source of parts if you can get the police on your side. Sounds like a doable plan, especially with your wife having business savvy.

Let me know if you need more information, on any mechanical issues, or general bike stuff.

cccmedia,

Parking can be very frustrating...

Parking in Quito is a mess. In malls and some stores you can find organised parking with attendants. This of course does not provide 100% safety. Common sense should dictate that the closer you park to a busy entrance the safer you will be. It is hit or miss, unfortunately the attitude I have seen is not unlike a New Yorkers, "Don't get involved".

I will opt for closer to the entrance when possible. On the street is another matter. There are areas usually marked in blue, that are metered by an attendant. The rest of the street is loosely controlled by guys in orange vests or simply waving a red rag at you to park. The fee is cheap normally $1.00 or less. The question is if these guys have a partner who cruises the parked cars looking for easy pickings. I have had no problems as of yet. Having someone in lieu of no one seems better than nothing.

Darkness always brings out the ghouls, so it is advised to stay in well lit areas. A parking area which is walled in will keep out foot traffic, and provide a one way in and out situation which is easier to control for one guy. If you pull into what you think is the parking for a restaurant and there is a guy loitering around, ask him if you are in the right place. That way you know he is with the establishment.

Parking on quiet side streets I personally avoid. We lost an antennae to someone who clearly needed it more than we did on a side street.  In a gated complex you should be okay, but in the city I avoid it.

If you drive in Quito, you are bound to at some point loose little things like; antennae, valve caps from wheels etc. to avoid costly losses; broken windows and stolen property, never leave anything of value in the open. Nothing. It is best to leave nothing in the cabin of the car at all, no change, bags, trash, cups anything. Put jackets, shopping bags empty or not in the trunk. If nothing looks of interest, they will likely move on to the next car.

Also when parking, get as close to the curb as possible and pull in your side mirrors. Both mirrors is best as I have seen kids walking along then hang or pull on the mirrors. The least amount of temptation the best. Streets can be narrow so try not to park directly across from a drive way. Parking structures can also be very narrow with travel limited to one direction at a time, along with tight turns. Always use your lights and horn when starting around a blind turn. 

When parking anywhere other than a marked parking place, in a lot. I will stop and look around, looking for potential hazard spots. I.E. if I park here and a car comes from this way, will I get hit, scratched etc. It can be like chess. I have come out to find that we are now 3 down, and  2 across surrounded by other cars. Double and triple parking is not uncommon. Some attendants will do this to get more cars in the lot, then it is like a puzzle getting one car out.

There is no real strategy, it is more a matter of "What if". Trying to limit your exposure to potential problems. Then again, sometimes you just can't win.

Welcome to Ecuador....   

GMC(SW) wrote:

Darkness always brings out the ghouls... Always use your lights and horn when starting around a blind turn.

That's a lot of good stuff, GMC, in your parking-rules post.

I notice that many of my taxi drivers -- especially at night -- will honk once approaching most any intersection, rather than slowing down.

Yet another reason to be aware:  motorcyclists are extremely creative and not limited in their thinking to official rules of the road.  They will dart around and squeeze through traffic in unexpected ways.

cccmedia in Quito

S Korea had the worst motorcycle riders of any place I've seen. Driving down the sidewalk... ok. Driving in the crosswalk amongst pedestrians... ok. Driving diagonal across a busy intersection... ok. Red lights mean go faster while texting.

Very true,

Moto riders in many countries can be like a swarm of insects. Riders in Ecuador are definitely among the suicide rider class.

I have seen a family of four, two adults and two small kids on a cycle.... Definitely not a practice I would try or condone.

I guess that's why many E.R. Doctors refer to cycle riders as "Organ donors".