Eggs...refrigerated or not!!!!

This is a debate I'm consistently having. US and Vietnamese food handling practices vary wildly.

My in-laws cook protiens and leave them sitting out for hours. Yet they'll put dried cereal and condiments in the fridge. Amazingly, nobody seems to get sick.

In my house we do it USA style. Hot foods hot,  cold foods cold,  and never in the danger zone for more than 2 hours.

Funny. This same subject has come up in our home also. They have some strange thinking on refrigerating hot things. It can't be put in the frig until the bacteria starts growing. They feel, so I am told, that cooking it again over high heat kills the germs. However, we do know that all countries of the world build up a tolerance for this type of stuff. But scientifically you put the bacteria laden food under a scope and prove to them...but. I am still breaking my wife in!!!

Well bacteria cannot live in temperatures over  165°F, so reheating the food will kill all the bacteria. However, those bacteria produce toxins which do not disappear at high temperatures.

Wait till she sees you eat rare steak, sunny-side up eggs, or sashimi.

I have seen the original question posed with respect to the US as opposed to Europe.  The explanation is that eggs in the US are washed so part of the natural barriers that the egg has are broken down and that is why US eggs must be refrigerated.  Vietnamese eggs are safe to keep outside as they probably follow European methods of handling. 

On the other hand, the Vietnamese idea that soups need to be cooled to room temperature before going in the refrigerator is scientifically false.  Hot things not going to the table should be cooled as quickly as possible which means refrigerating.  If the pot is large, it is a good idea to stir it maybe once an hour until it is evenly cooled.  The idea may come from experiences where refrigeration was used but the center did not cool and spoilage occurred.   However, this would be just as true if the pot was left outside first.

I'm guessing that cereals in the refrigerator may more for keeping them away from bugs and rats than it is to keep them cold.

Salmonella isn't something you would wanna take a chance with.

I think this an unbiased report that gives both theories:  http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/201 … rld-doesnt

One advantage of the European system is that most EU countries vaccinate the flocks for salmonella while the US does not.  Most flocks in Vietnam are probably not vaccinated except possibly on the largest communes.  One advantage in Vietnam is that the supply chain is very short and has a high turnover rate so the eggs you buy are not old.    Eggs laid in Iowa and sold in New York are probably at least a week old.

100 million people, a very low intake of meat quick turn over of foods, high temp cooking and adaptation to enviromental bacteria endemic to local populations factors mean little chance of poisoning http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam … mp;dbid=29

THIGV wrote:

Hot things not going to the table should be cooled as quickly as possible which means refrigerating.  If the pot is large, it is a good idea to stir it maybe once an hour until it is evenly cooled.  The idea may come from experiences where refrigeration was used but the center did not cool and spoilage occurred.

You said it right "cooled down as quickly as possible". Our golden rule to maximize "shelf life" and minimize bacterial growth or spoilage is (from boiling point) down to below 20'C within under 20 minutes (especially sauces).

I strongly disagree with stir it once in an hour. For critical foods I use ice-bath and stir until the steam stops to rise, that will guarantee you're out of the danger zone quickly. You can also insert ice cooling elements to cool from within.

You won't believe how a big batch of something like a Thai curry can spoil within a very short time, creating foams and gases, bubbling away as if the stove was still lit!

Eggs in fridge can't be bad, I'd say it possibly preserves quality and shelf life, but that's just an assumption.

egg are made to become chickens,eventually they go bad fridge or no, eggs " still Ok" but on the way, fill container (glass ) with water place egg in if it floats its going ( not completely )off if it sinks its good floating indicates gasses being formed, crack it and you find the album (clear part) is becoming runny good for cakes and scambled eggs

Good point on both accounts. I have told my bride the same thing in regards to bacteria/toxins. I think they believe that bacteria is the only concern...understandable.

Lets not forget,the understanding of bacteria and germs is mostly not known by the average local.Hence cleaning with water and a rag and washing dishes in cold water. I have shown my gf how to do it, but as usual she reverts back to cold water, so I do it myself.

Yeah the maid thought I was a fruitcake for insisting she wash the dishes with hot water and rinse them w/ hot water. But in this case it is an energy
consumption issue relative to income. My wife grandma will check over her shoulder and ask why she is boiling so much water to cook me something.
  I really do love to observe the differences in the different cultures.

I suspect the cold water idea is related to the amount of rice on the plate/bowl, it's pretty good at absorbing oil and fat, also eggs are an extremely sterile ( germ free ) enviroment when they pop out wetting them does no favors   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … -best.html

Vagabondone wrote:

Yeah the maid thought I was a fruitcake for insisting she wash the dishes with hot water and rinse them w/ hot water. But in this case it is an energy
consumption issue relative to income. My wife grandma will check over her shoulder and ask why she is boiling so much water to cook me something.
  I really do love to observe the differences in the different cultures.

I like washing dishes in hot water too, but most kitchen sinks in Vietnam do not have hot water.  The only exceptions that I have seen were homes custom built for Viet Kieu.  But consider this;  in order to have an effect on germs the water would have to be boiling for at least a few minutes.  The kind of hot water that your hands could stand will not have a serious effect on bacteria.  To me the advantage of hot water, particularly a hot rinse, is that it gets rid of the light residual oil sheen.  Cold water washing requires both more "elbow grease" and more soap.  The added soap is probably a trade-off that most Vietnamese don't consider.

I install hot water in all my homes. But this is a bit off topic. But I am glad I posed the question on eggs, I learned something new.

After an egg is refrigerated, it must be kept at that temperature. "A cold egg left out at room temperature can sweat, facilitating the growth of bacteria that could contaminate the egg," according to the United Egg Producers association.

Remember, Americans too ate room temperature eggs until the invention of refrigerators.

After my wife arrived here in Canada I started to realize that after we went grocery shopping,  certain things that we bought from fridges were left out, eggs for one.   She still thinks the eggs here are safe ever after explaining that once they are kept in a fridge they need to remain there once you bring them home so they don’t sweat and run the risk of bacterial growth passing through the shell.  She does the same thing with meat.  She will make a large pot of lemongrass noodle soup in the evening with beef in it.  After it’s simmered for hours she will turn it off and it will stay out all night to be eaten the next day at noon.  I’ve tried explaining that after 2 hours the meat begins to spoil but she just keeps saying “It’s no problem”.  Well it is a problem on my digestive system.   Her argument is the fact I ate everything offered to me in Vietnam and I explained to her that I had taken several injections of who knows what to prevent any issues.  Anyone have ideas how I can change my wife’s thinking about food safety?

jeffandthuyan2021 wrote:

After my wife arrived here in Canada I started to realize that after we went grocery shopping,  certain things that we bought from fridges were left out, eggs for one.   She still thinks the eggs here are safe ever after explaining that once they are kept in a fridge they need to remain there once you bring them home so they don’t sweat and run the risk of bacterial growth passing through the shell.  She does the same thing with meat.  She will make a large pot of lemongrass noodle soup in the evening with beef in it.  After it’s simmered for hours she will turn it off and it will stay out all night to be eaten the next day at noon.  I’ve tried explaining that after 2 hours the meat begins to spoil but she just keeps saying “It’s no problem”.  Well it is a problem on my digestive system.   Her argument is the fact I ate everything offered to me in Vietnam and I explained to her that I had taken several injections of who knows what to prevent any issues.  Anyone have ideas how I can change my wife’s thinking about food safety?

All you can say is that from birth you are fed clean safe foods (hopefully) from your parents and your body is not used to the bacteria found in some countries where the population has built up some kind of natural immunity to it - its why we get Delhi belly or vomit our guts out when we eat things the locals have no problem with.
It's taken me 3+ years but slowly I am finding I can eat just about enywhere or anything when I go out now early on I was getting sick just about every other week from eating something.
So tell her you dont have any natural immunity towards the bacteria like she has and it can make you very sick.

jeffandthuyan2021 wrote:

Anyone have ideas how I can change my wife’s thinking about food safety?

Your problem with your eggs is that Canada washes them just as the US does.  That breaks down the natural protective layer on the eggs and makes them more susceptible to bacterial breakdown.  Have her read my link in #2.  Besides the fact that the eggs are brushed and not washed in Vietnam, another factor is that back home she could buy as many, or more importantly as few eggs as she needed for the next or even the same day.  So if she needed three, she bought three with no leftovers.   In the US lately, and I expect it is the same in Canada, eggs are no longer sold by dozens but in trays of 18 or even 24.   As you have bought more, you will have to keep them longer.  One advantage in Canada is that, unlike in the US, your commercial layer flocks are apparently vaccinated for salmonella which does add a layer of safety if eggs are left out.  Personally, I find the idea of brushed and unwashed eggs a better alternative, but one that is no longer available to your wife.

jeffandthuyan2021 wrote:

Anyone have ideas how I can change my wife’s thinking about food safety?

My wife always leaves raw meat in the sink floating in water all day while washing vegetables in the same sink and other food safety horrors no matter how many times I’ve complained she still does it!  How hard is it to put the meat on a tray and thaw it out ANY OTHER PLACE but in the sink we are using for other purposes.  This stuff drives me bonkers.

jjb7733 wrote:

jeffandthuyan2021 wrote:

Anyone have ideas how I can change my wife’s thinking about food safety?

My wife always leaves raw meat in the sink floating in water all day while washing vegetables in the same sink and other food safety horrors no matter how many times I’ve complained she still does it!  How hard is it to put the meat on a tray and thaw it out ANY OTHER PLACE but in the sink we are using for other purposes.  This stuff drives me bonkers.

You have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting a Vietnamese to listen.

My wife is exactly the same. Been telling her for years about food hygiene, in one ear and out the other.

My wife is exactly the same. Been telling her for years about food hygiene, in one ear and out the other.

- @colinoscapee

After my wife arrived here in Canada I started to realize that after we went grocery shopping,  certain things that we bought from fridges were left out, eggs for one.   She still thinks the eggs here are safe ever after explaining that once they are kept in a fridge they need to remain there once you bring them home so they don’t sweat and run the risk of bacterial growth passing through the shell.  She does the same thing with meat.  She will make a large pot of lemongrass noodle soup in the evening with beef in it.  After it’s simmered for hours she will turn it off and it will stay out all night to be eaten the next day at noon.  I’ve tried explaining that after 2 hours the meat begins to spoil but she just keeps saying “It’s no problem”.  Well it is a problem on my digestive system.   Her argument is the fact I ate everything offered to me in Vietnam and I explained to her that I had taken several injections of who knows what to prevent any issues.  Anyone have ideas how I can change my wife’s thinking about food safety?

- @jeffandthuyan2021

After my wife arrived here in Canada I started to realize that after we went grocery shopping,  certain things that we bought from fridges were left out, eggs for one.   She still thinks the eggs here are safe ever after explaining that once they are kept in a fridge they need to remain there once you bring them home so they don’t sweat and run the risk of bacterial growth passing through the shell.  She does the same thing with meat.  She will make a large pot of lemongrass noodle soup in the evening with beef in it.  After it’s simmered for hours she will turn it off and it will stay out all night to be eaten the next day at noon.  I’ve tried explaining that after 2 hours the meat begins to spoil but she just keeps saying “It’s no problem”.  Well it is a problem on my digestive system.   Her argument is the fact I ate everything offered to me in Vietnam and I explained to her that I had taken several injections of who knows what to prevent any issues.  Anyone have ideas how I can change my wife’s thinking about food safety?

- @jeffandthuyan2021

Unfortunately this is not true. When a chicken lays an egg it has a protective membrane that allows it  to be stored at room temp for sometime. The practice of refrigerating eggs got started many  years ago and is a long a mixed story. There are only a few countries that require they be washed. As I recall it is America, Australia, Japan and Scandinavia. The natural membrane makes the egg shell non-porous thus bacteria can not penetrate into the egg.

Of course, they are in their own world with their other food safety practices. To the fella that wanted to change his wifes ways....it would be far easier to change wife

We have two restaurant's here in Vietnam. And it is a 24/7 struggle to get our staff ton abide by our food safety policies...cold food cold and hot food hot. But then we have oodles of customers that want to compare our prices to those of the Pho vendor with no refrigerator, plenty of Hep-B. Heck our electric bill  is more then their entire overhead.

- @Diazo