about salary- can I live with €1000 in Budapest?

Both 1000EUR gross and net salary per month for customer service can be realistic in BP, it really depends on your skills and experience. And yes, you can survive on 1000EUR net and starve on 1000EUR gross, it depends on your needs, spending habits, discipline, etc.

Edit: what I should have written: " you can survive on 1000EUR gross and starve on 1000EUR net"

Minimum wage in HU was EUR 332 per month. I think it's hard for anyone to live on that.  1000 EUR is not very much really but it depends who you are. If you speak English to the level of your posting, better off in the UK or somewhere else.  Why come here?

Cost of living calculator in different cities around the world, including Budapest:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/

Atomheart
Thanks a lot. it depends on myself or my lifestyle. Exactly. I am sure I can survive:)

fluffy2560
It is all about visa issue....if I were an EU citizen, it can be different...

klsallee
Thanks a lot

Minimum salary in Hungary is 250 EUR, average people earn 300-400 Eur a month, it is quite hard not to survive on 1000 EUR or even the half of it. :-)

Traveler38 wrote:

Minimum salary in Hungary is 250 EUR, average people earn 300-400 Eur a month, it is quite hard not to survive on 1000 EUR or even the half of it. :-)

You might want to check your numbers.  Fluffy previously stated it was 332 Euro/mo.  According to Trading Economics, it went up last month to 353.05 Euro/mo, a significant difference from 250 EUR you claim it to be.

Romaniac
Expat.com Experts Team

romaniac wrote:

According to Trading Economics, it went up last month to 353.05 Euro/mo, a significant difference from 250 EUR you claim it to be.

For what it is worth, and this is a bit of a local issue, but many people in Hungary consider their "salary" as their net (take home) salary, not their gross salary. Since net salary is what they can actually spend (pragmatic people will not talk about something that does not exist in their pocket). After the various taxes have been removed from their gross salary (about 30%), the net salary is thus about 250 EUR.

So it is important for everyone to state they are talking about either "net salary" or "gross salary", as Atomheart pointed out, to avoid confusion.

Yes, I was talking about net salary. Klsallee, thank you for your contribution, romaniac was significantly confused.

klsallee wrote:

romaniac wrote:

According to Trading Economics, it went up last month to 353.05 Euro/mo, a significant difference from 250 EUR you claim it to be.

For what it is worth, and this is a bit of a local issue, but many people in Hungary consider their "salary" as their net (take home) salary, not their gross salary. Since net salary is what they can actually spend (pragmatic people will not talk about something that does not exist in their pocket). After the various taxes have been removed from their gross salary (about 30%), the net salary is thus about 250 EUR.

So it is important for everyone to state they are talking about either "net salary" or "gross salary", as Atomheart pointed out, to avoid confusion.

I'd say it's fairly common for people to consider their income and ability to live, based on what they take home; it's not so much localized practice   I agree that it's wise to state whether an individual's income figure is net or gross, as it cannot always be assumed like the Traveler38 or the OP may think.  However when talking about figures such as state-mandated minimum wages, gross is implied.  Applied taxes are variable, depending on household situation, so while the minimum gross wage is consistent, the net salary of someone earning a given amount will vary from person to person.

With that aside, surviving alone on 353 EUR gross / 250 EUR net is rather unlikely, however with 1000 EUR (indifferent of it being gross or net) it should be possible, depending on lifestyle choices.

My assumption was based on the question itself whether one can survive on 1000 EUR, meaning one has 1000 EUR in his/her pocket.

Someone from a foreign country may not be interested in the tax system when asking about living costs because it's different all over the world.

"Surviving on 1000 EUR should be possible", is this a joke? It's like having 4.000 EUR or USD in North Europe or the USA. It's already a fortune in today's world.

... Besides, people in customer service earn ca. net 300 EUR or less in Hungary, so the question itself may be unrealistic as well ...

Traveler38 wrote:

...."Surviving on 1000 EUR should be possible", is this a joke? It's like having 4.000 EUR or USD in North Europe or the USA. It's already a fortune in today's world.

No it isn't. 

Prices in HU are Euro-normal or even higher due to the oppressive VAT and the lower economy of scale but but salaries do not reflect retail prices. 

4K EUR a month is rubbish in London.  That's not a fortune. Let's not talk about places like Japan.

Renting accommodation is the key. The further away from the city it is generally cheaper and more affordable.
If I was on a low salary I would live in a,hostel or in a shared
apartment. A place on your own in the city is out of reach for most workers.

Yes!
This is VASTLY different to a normal salary - you are being offered approx 300,000ft , while the average Hungarian salary is around 180,000ft !!!
So over 50% more than average - as a result, of course it's enough to live on - millions of Hungarians manage on less than average .....
You'll have to resist Western excesses in your expenditure though, some can't do without that 😝
Once you're hear, you'll never want to leave, the place has a beguiling way of winning you over 😄
Enjoy !!

I know quite a few people who live on just over 1000gross in Budapest, so yes, it is possible.
One thing is, you might have to share a flat with a roommate, unless you're really lucky to find something cheap and decent.

If it is 1000 net then you can definitely manage.

Matthiasdg wrote:

....If it is 1000 net then you can definitely manage.

Depends if you want to really live or just exist.

Usually, it's 33% per category, so for EUR 1000 net:  EUR 333 rent/utilities, EUR333 for food and EUR 333 for entertainment/clothes/transport.

If you have a family, it's not a good amount.

Angolhapsi wrote:

Yes!
This is VASTLY different to a normal salary - you are being offered approx 300,000ft , while the average Hungarian salary is around 180,000ft !!!
So over 50% more than average - as a result, of course it's enough to live on - millions of Hungarians manage on less than average .....

FWIIW: many Hungarians own their residence (so pay no rent), have extended family connections that "help out" often, and have side income sources that increase their actual income. So reported income and actual income can vary, and their overall expenses may differ quite a bit from expats.

One must also realize that those "millions of Hungarians manage on less than average" include the millions of poor in rural areas. So this sort of comparison is not necessarily realistic, since living in Budapest is much more expensive and should command higher salaries.

You will struggle if you pay rent unless you go into a hostel, a large shared flat or somewhere on the outskirts of town. Food, eating out, alcohol and transport are relatively cheap. Anything that you need to buy such as furniture, diy, electrical items, known toiletries and items from the pharmacy , for example, are more expensive. The internet connections and phone services are about the same.
I manage very well so far but I have no rent to pay. However other bills such as common costs can tend to creep up on you.
If you want to socialise and go out a lot you will not manage very well on that amount.

anns wrote:

..... However other bills such as common costs can tend to creep up on you.
If you want to socialise and go out a lot you will not manage very well on that amount.

Absolutely.

We pay about another 20% on top of the basic rent for common costs (water, cleaning, gardening etc).  And probably another 10% for gas/electricity.  So the basic costs are cheap enough but factor in this with the rest, it starts to look expensive.

As we rent, we have had to make sure we are not paying for hidden common insurance or hidden building repairs.  These are the responsibility of the owners.   The "hausmeister" running the place, bundles these costs into a price for each apartment.  Clearly this is not our problem, so we had to make it clear we do not pay for that part.   Getting a breakdown seems to have been quite difficult for them to calculate as renters did not fit their expectations/model.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Getting a breakdown seems to have been quite difficult for them to calculate as renters did not fit their expectations/model.

Did you get a cost breakdown from the landlord?

I am interested, because since rentals are based on contract law in Hungary (mostly to the legal benefit of the landlord), the landlord may have no requirement to provide such a finer grained breakdown (beyond utility costs) unless it is required in the rental contract or otherwise by law.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Getting a breakdown seems to have been quite difficult for them to calculate as renters did not fit their expectations/model.

Did you get a cost breakdown from the landlord?

I am interested, because since rentals are based on contract law in Hungary (mostly to the legal benefit of the landlord), the landlord may have no requirement to provide such a finer grained breakdown (beyond utility costs) unless it is required in the rental contract or otherwise by law.

No, we didn't as we did not even think about it way back then.  It's been like this for several years and we've been here for far too long (years) to really complain now.

I wasn't that concerned about the obvious common costs as it was expected but it was only when the hausmeister (or whatever he's called) came by to collect this insurance money at the beginning that we even thought about it.  So we refused and told him to check with the owner.   If we had been a little less switched on, we could have ended up paying.

Sometime later they also started doing some repairs in the underground garage.  Seeing what they were doing, we made sure that we were not included in providing any hidden contributions that scheme.  Utter waste of time and pointless exercise.

I would object to paying anyway for the building because the guy who does the maintenance work is not very competent.  I've not had a working light in my garage/parking spot for years.

I've taken to repairing some parts of the place myself as the landlord lives in another country.  He's too far away to do anything sensible.  Usually if it's over few K HUF,  we get someone in to repair the item (i.e. boiler, window blinds etc) and deduct the amount from the rent.  If other things break down (like the built in dishwasher) we simply take them out and store them in the garage and bought our own one.   When we leave, not our problem. We won't be putting it back.

I have to say the Fluffyettes have damaged the decorating and some fittings quite a lot so we're not expecting to tidy up much, nor are we expecting our deposit ("kaution") money back.   Not worth spending time trying to restore the place.  Landlord will have to get decorators in and to save our effort, he can keep the deposit.

Most landlords just put the whole of the common costs bill down to the tenant. In my block the bill is only itemised once a year and the letter goes to the landlord. The larger the apartment the higher the share of the bills.

Its worth having a few hungarian friends helping when looking for places to rent.  Rents for students and incomers seem to be going up and up. Maybe rents to Hungarians are a lot cheaper.
I wish I had had the foresight to put a hungarian name on my door bell. When I have workmen around to do quotations i am sure the price increases once they see my name.
There is an assumption that all incomers are rich and can pay extra for everything.

anns wrote:

I wish I had had the foresight to put a hungarian name on my door bell.

Probably wouldn't change anything. More important is if you speak fluent Hungarian or not. My wife uses my very un-Hungarian last name, and it has never been a problem for her (except getting the name pronounced correctly here  ).

anns wrote:

There is an assumption that all incomers are rich and can pay extra for everything.

And, relatively speaking, they are probably correct. "Rich" is simply a matter of perspective. In other words, the fiscal capacities of the average foreigner in Hungary probably is greater than the average Hungarian. And many foreigners do overpay in Hungary, because to the foreigner that price they paid, from their perspective, is seen as being relatively cheap (meanwhile few Hungarians would pay that "high" price the foreigner paid). So foreigners do create their own stereotypes and feedback loops.

And, as I have pointed out before, this is not unique to Hungary. (as Mr. Blandings discovered -- great to listen to it all, but skip to minute 10:15 for the reality of a “standard top gouge price to city slickers”).

anns wrote:

....When I have workmen around to do quotations i am sure the price increases once they see my name. There is an assumption that all incomers are rich and can pay extra for everything.

Mrs Fluffy always does the talking but we still get the odd person who tries it on and they get shown the door sharpish.   The usual rule is to get 3 prices for the job and see the average.

Some of these workers/suppliers are bordering on being nuts. 

I'm trying to buy some internal doors this week, we sent the plans so they can see the door sizes and we selected the type and finish.  Now we hear from these guys they want to "interview" us to determine our needs.   What is that about?  Never heard about being interviewed over some doors.  What a waste of our time.   All we want to know is how much it costs for cost comparison.  Another one is suggesting WE pay them to visit our house to check it out.   No way Jose.  Want the work, you come in your own time, your own cost and your own risk.

We had this other guy around who wanted us to buy some light fittings.  They were atrocious, like industrial fittings you'd find in a garage.  Nice guy but an utter lack of imagination.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Never heard about being interviewed over some doors.

You may want to remove your shirt and make sure someone did not put concentric circles on your back.....

Seriously, just sounds like sales techniques to try to sell you something you do not need, for more then necessary, because they think you can be convinced in seeing how special they are.... In other words, they might think they can make a better sale by believing you need to hear them tell you they "had a dream about your space".

I think that things are slowly changing in the cities. Maybe it is the western influence such as ikea. The standards of workmanship in the countryside is still very bodge up and make  do. When we first came to look at property we saw some ugly sights, battered pre war furniture and plumbing items held together with sticky tape.
When i bought my apartment the residents had put up with leaky taps, a broken toilet, brown walls and yellow ceilings for many a year.
It still surprises me that when places are advertised for rent or sale the photos show unmade beds and clutter everywhere.
More recently apartments in budapest have been properly renovated and furnished prior to rental but then this bring into question affordability.

anns wrote:

...It still surprises me that when places are advertised for rent or sale the photos show unmade beds and clutter everywhere....

We've seen some hilarious photos of people's houses for sale - people eating dinner, granny watching TV, tables covered with empty booze bottles, dogs, piles of junk.

It's a total lack of awareness of marketing and salesmanship.

klsallee wrote:

......
Seriously, just sounds like sales techniques to try to sell you something you do not need, for more then necessary, because they think you can be convinced in seeing how special they are.... In other words, they might think they can make a better sale by believing you need to hear them tell you....

You are absolutely right.   But we're quite good at ducking. They are barking up the wrong tree, betting on the wrong horse, selected a lemon as far as flattery and impressing us are concerned.  So Mrs Fluffy was on the case. And we agreed the correct response was:  "We haven't got time for all that, stop p***ing about and tell us how much the f***ing doors cost".   Doubt we'll hear from them again.  Luckily we have several Plan Bs.

fluffy2560 wrote:

stop p***ing about and tell us how much the f***ing doors cost".   Doubt we'll hear from them again.

Do you want to install the doors yourself? If not, it would be a good idea to let them have a look first, take their measurements. Once you remove the old door frame, you might find that the hole in the wall is not as big as it seemed (happened to my landlord!), or it's not a perfect rectangle with 90-degree corners...

The real estate market has been booming for some time, there are LOTS of renovations, these companies have more work than they can handle, won't be flexible with you, especially the good ones...

atomheart wrote:

....Do you want to install the doors yourself? If not, it would be a good idea to let them have a look first, take their measurements. Once you remove the old door frame, you might find that the hole in the wall is not as big as it seemed (happened to my landlord!), or it's not a perfect rectangle with 90-degree corners...

The real estate market has been booming for some time, there are LOTS of renovations, these companies have more work than they can handle, won't be flexible with you, especially the good ones...

I've fitted doors in the past but it's easier if they do it so I can do something else while they do that.  We'd also prefer them to install them in order they take on liability for getting it right otherwise our builders will do it and they can take on liability.   The doorways and walls are all reconstructed so they are fairly accurate. But it doesn't matter, they'll fix it square using expanding foam/glue (what an amazing invention!).  We'd like these door suppliers to come and check but I'm not prepared to pay for it in case we do not like their quotes.  Quote first, then we'll discuss.  This is the way we did our windows.   

The only problem we've got now is if we want the door frames to have a piece of wood along the bottom or not.  I think not because it means the doors can be installed as soon as they are available and the flooring done afterwards.  Details details details.

Yes, there are lots of renovations going on.  Ours is a major piece of work, reconstructed from essentially a shell.   We've been at it over a year.  We're still a fair way from finishing.  We are there a couple of times a day checking on progress - just today, we had some heating pump people there, the electrical supply provider and our window sills were installed.  It's like this every week.  I hope we can move the gas meter and finally get the water meter replaced/connected.  Never seems to end.

The biggest hassle is deciding on the finishing materials like tiles, paint, flooring and bathroom fittings. Never even thought about it! 

And it's the holidays ....no-one around really until September.

atomheart wrote:

Do you want to install the doors yourself? If not, it would be a good idea to let them have a look first, take their measurements.

I think the point was, for that, they only need to come with a ruler. They do not need to "interview" you. 

I have also experienced this attempt to "up sell" here. It really is annoying.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The only problem we've got now is if we want the door frames to have a piece of wood along the bottom or not.  I think not because it means the doors can be installed as soon as they are available and the flooring done afterwards.  Details details details.

Depends on the door, your flooring choice, and the walls.

First off, external doors need the bottom frame, since it is part of the weather seal.

For indoor door:

Heavy, solid wood doors that are hinged on the frame should have the bottom support. It strengthens the "box" needed to support the door.

Lighter composite doors hinged to the frame probably do not need the bottom support. Nor heavy solid wood doors hinged to the wall. Then the frame is just to make the "closing" connection for the door.

Also, doors with the bottom frame member should not necessarily be placed on the flooring. We placed ours on the concrete sub floor, then installed the flooring (wood) around them. One can do this because doors with the bottom frame should have space under the side frames to allow the flooring to slip under them (when installing wood flooring, just start at the door). This allows the wood floor to properly contract and expand with temp and humidity as it is not "pinned" under the door. It also allows the bottom frame member to not stick up so much in the end. Of course, this is a problem if you have a "walk through" room with doors at each end. Then a tongue and grove wood floor can not be installed well if both doors are installed first, but tile or carpet can.

klsallee wrote:

....I think the point was, for that, they only need to come with a ruler. They do not need to "interview" you. 

I have also experienced this attempt to "up sell" here. It really is annoying.

Yup, that's it, bring your tape measure,, paper, a pen and your brain.  That's all we need.

We've got a budget anyway, and we won't exceed it.  Determining the budget is what they should be doing.  That sets the limits for an offer.  We do not need to know about solutions higher than the budget as they are, by definition, out of range and not feasible.

Having done sales work in the past, but not for doors but corporate services,  the first thing out my mouth is usually, what's your budget for this work?

I have to say we're seriously off topic but then again, up-sell can obviously occur in renting property and if this was in another thread, a continuing up-selling of Brexit.  I had to get that in there.

klsallee wrote:

....

First off, external doors need the bottom frame, since it is part of the weather seal.

For indoor door:

Heavy, solid wood doors that are hinged on the frame should have the bottom support. It strengthens the "box" needed to support the door.

Lighter composite doors hinged to the frame probably do not need the bottom support. Nor heavy solid wood doors hinged to the wall. Then the frame is just to make the "closing" connection for the door.

Also, heavy solid wood doors and their frame should not necessarily be placed on the flooring. It again depends on the flooring type. We placed ours on the concrete sub floor, then installed the flooring (wood) around them. .... Then a tongue and grove wood floor can not be installed well, but tile or carpet can.

Yup, that's  right.

These are internal doors.  All the external doors have been done already.  Somewhat easier to do than the inside ones.

From what we've seen, doors are all composite and lightweight.  To make them look like wood, there's a veneer on top.  All the doors we've seen are not "real wood" as such.  Budget doesn't allow real wood. Not too happy about veneer as my experience is that it can lift.

As for flooring, it's "parkett" (or parquet in English) which is similarly constructed to veneer.  Depth is about 14mm not including insulating sub-panels. The veneer on top is about 3-4mm which would allow sanding perhaps once or twice. I'm not too happy about the types I have seen. Looks like tongue and groove to me.  It's a bit too cheaply made.   

I would have preferred real blocks of wood rather than these veneered substitute panels which seem almost as bad as laminate flooring (laminate falls to pieces). and cannot take abuse   

Unfortunately, the floor depth does not allow for large blocks to be used (these would be about 25mm deep, perhaps a bit more)
.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Budget doesn't allow real wood.

We spent months talking to door makers for both internal and external new doors. Finally gave up. Bought all solid wood "pre-fab" doors and refitted the holes in the wall to match the doors (well, one door to a terrase is mostly glass, like a window, but the frame is wood). Actually, that was not only a cheaper solution but in the end easier considering all the time I wasted trying to get fitted doors. And I am overall happy with the doors (they are not perfect, but are good enough for the price).

I did have two doors custom built for the wine cellar. But a generic master carpenter did those.

fluffy2560 wrote:

As for flooring, it's "parkett" (or parquet in English) which is similarly constructed to veneer.  Depth is about 14mm not including insulating sub-panels. The veneer on top is about 3-4mm which would allow sanding perhaps once or twice. I'm not too happy about the types I have seen. Looks like tongue and groove to me.  It's a bit too cheaply made.

That is a very standard type of fully wood flooring. The bottom looks like crap. But it can be since it will never be seen. And its construction design (layers should be 90° to each other) actually does mean less contraction and expansion problems that "real solid" flooring has. The veneer on the top will probably out live you, especially if you get a good hard wood like oak or walnut (put down a throw rug, or install tile instead in high traffic areas like by the front door to avoid obvious wear in these places). Also look for "seconds" sales -- theses are where they sell pieces with slight flaws. The flaws are cut out during installation. The floor boards need to be trimmed anyway during installation, and you will loose about 15% of the flooring doing this (compared to maybe 5% loss with "prefect" flooring). So one needs to order more flooring than one actually needs to account for cutting out the "bad parts", but a good "seconds" sale should be 30% to 40% cheaper, so you get ahead overall.

I actually salvaged some of the original solid wood flooring in our house and re-installed. The rest was either tiled over concrete or laid down with parkett.

Update:  the owner of the door company called Mrs Fluffy and he explained the "protocol" on how doors are sold.  First of all we have to feel good about doors in general, join the door cult, agree to pay for doors, any doors, do good works on doors in third world countries, go to door university and learn the door anthem and only then, when we've passed this level will we reach door nirvana.

After some minutes of nonsense, Mrs Fluffy pointed out we'd like a quote before anything else whereupon he said "oh, against our protocol" but OK, we'll send you the pricing you requested.

In the meantime, we're going to look in Obi.

fluffy2560 wrote:

First of all we have to feel good about doors in general, join the door cult, agree to pay for doors, any doors, do good works on doors in third world countries, go to door university and learn the door anthem and only then, when we've passed this level will we reach door nirvana

Are they selling doors, or The Doors?