How do you invest in Vietnam real estate?

Delafon..you’d better check the latest property movements in Australia.    It’s “tanking”.    In the last 18 months prices in the main capital cities have declined 15%.   

Some have risen.....but only because they were cheap to begin with & in locations that were not as desirable.

Chinese property investment in Australia has fallen 70% in the last year.     All due to Chinese “gubberment” putting a freeze on the flight of capital.   Same things happening in Canada & New Zealand ,,they were flooded with Chinese money as well.    Yeah...they paid cash,,,but a lot of it was borrowed on the shadow banking game and illegal means

Google “project dragon four corners abc”  .  It’s about China tracking down property in Australia bought by Chinese with funny money.

People relying on Chinese property investors to prop up the market could be in for a surprise.   The chow banks are stuck with 3.5 TRILLION dollars in property loans invested in 65 MILLION stagnant ,vacant  piles on concrete that most Chinese can’t afford. 

The ones that can afford,,have already spent.  The rest don’t have the borrowing capacity to service a loan.    That ain’t good.    The Australian market is basically similar.   You can’t sell something to people who haven’t got money OR haven’t got the financial capacity to service the loans required to buy a place.

So ...that’s where the slump comes in...and who knows how long the  “ catch up game “ takes before buyers get into a Financial situation where they can service a loan or Buy outright.

There is a solution.......basic market forces.😆

The seller takes a haircut & shifts DOWN in price to meet the market.

By the way......property sellers in Nha Trang are starting to sweat. The bubble has burst, rents are dropping AND.... Chinese tourist numbers are actually FALLING.🤓.    I know a few VN who are desperately trying to sell land at a discount.    They know the games about to change.

Diazo wrote:

Don't!!!!
The is not like you home country. The process is so filled with land mines. One there is no common law here like in much of the world. There is no law of contracts. There is not court to go and settle contractual disputes. And any body you go before here is for sale to the highest bidder. There is no ability to do title searches as in your country, Thus there is no ability to buy title insurance. Real estate prices are so inflated here that the last guy in is going to get burned. You hail from the country with the best environment to invest in real estate and you want to take a crap shoot on investing here while staying on your perpetually extended visa? Hope you think long and hard before you take the plunge. Yes, there will be many who chime in and espouse the great benefits of investing here. But you always must look at your real rate of return on any investment ( in RE we measure it by cap rate) and factor in inflation. No bargains here my friend. Then the infrastructure you get for your investment????? Potable water, firehouse nearby, etc etc

After 400 posts, Diazo's summary of the situation still sums it up best.

Yep..Diazo has called it well.   It’s a mugs game for foreigners unless your a Multi National using other people’s money.

In 8 years based here , and many years extended travel in SE Asia I’ve met many of the victims of the Asian property game.

And guess what.........they’re not the sharpest tack in the packet , are they ?

They all look the same ..🤪

It is unfortunate because my wife actually wants to buy another house to live in.  I won't live in hers - it's too small and too far away from where I work so we are renting in district 2 and she is letting family live in the one she owns for free, LOL. 

I'm not looking for investment property, not looking to flip, just a nice place to live.  I look at what I can buy where I'm from in the Midwest in the US (6B VND will buy a very nice 400 sq meter house on a 1,250 sq meter lot with a three car garage).  After I got divorced I bought and still have a 120 sq meter house on a similar sized lot that I paid less than 1B VND for.  As it looks  I will have to spend 8-10 B VND for 5x20 meters and have three flights of stairs to have something liveable. That's a lot of money for a house that is still in a third world country. 

We are here for another 18 months until her visa gets approved and then going to the US for 4 years until her daughter graduates from a US high school and then retire for 6 months in the US and 6 months in the winter in Vietnam.  Honestly I hope it does crash in the next few years so I can buy something at a price that I don't have to hold my nose to sign on the dotted line.

I have informed my wife and numerous VN friends that another decline in the market is on the cards....they say it wont happen.

We bought land in the countryside due to the fact that markets move first in the major cities, then the outer areas and finally the countryside. The land we just bought has increased 50% in a month. Once I see a downturn in the major cities in full swing, then it will be a case of selling our land and sit back and wait for a bargain if it arises.

There are a lot of people pretending they are honest but are in fact lying cheating pieces of dung .

zob24 wrote:

There are a lot of people pretending they are honest but are in fact lying cheating pieces of dung .

Without using the quote button nobody will ever know who you are referring to.

For Yogi007 thanks a lot for your update about Chinese and Australia. This support my point that the same could very well happen here in Saigon / Vietnam in the coming months...

For Diazo, a bit outdated opinion, valid a couple of years back. The new 2015 real estate laws brought quit a few improvements. I bought 3 properties in Saigon area 1 year ago as long term investment. So far, so good, quite happy!

For SteinNebraska, I believe we are going to see a "market adjustment" in Vietnam in the next 6 to 18 months. Then it will recover again like a couple of years back.

colinoscapee wrote:

I have informed my wife and numerous VN friends that another decline in the market is on the cards....they say it wont happen.

Yes, same with me.

zob24 wrote:

There are a lot of people pretending they are honest but are in fact lying cheating pieces of dung .

Like everywhere in the world...
A bit more in Vietnam probably because they have been through hell during 100 years from end of the 19th century with Chinese, Japanese, French and US armies.....

For "market adjustment", read, "A lot of people losing their shirts".

Concerning the comparison between Australia and Vietnam real estate marked, I talked with an Australian friend specialized in the Australian REA market and a Vietnamese friend long time REA investor in Vietnam.
Here is a summary of my learnings:

1) Real estate in Australia has gone down recently because of the Chinese crack down on all those money launderers, high profile politicians et... But considering prices have risen for so long already. It is normal that they are in the early stages of a recession.

2) Vietnam real estate property only can be bought with cash, they don't provide loans for foreigners...

3)  We will see a slow down/price adjustment  on the Vietnamese market currently as  the prices are not as great as 2 years ago and several other factors.

4) After June, we might see strong pressure on prices levels as more than 60% of new property units will have been/be launched in district 2 and 9, like Empire City in Thu Thiem for example.

DELAFON wrote:

Concerning the comparison between Australia and Vietnam real estate marked, I talked with an Australian friend specialized in the Australian REA market and a Vietnamese friend long time REA investor in Vietnam.
Here is a summary of my learnings:

1) Real estate in Australia has gone down recently because of the Chinese crack down on all those money launderers, high profile politicians et... But considering prices have risen for so long already. It is normal that they are in the early stages of a recession.

2) Vietnam real estate property only can be bought with cash, they don't provide loans for foreigners...

3)  We will see a slow down/price adjustment  on the Vietnamese market currently as  the prices are not as great as 2 years ago and several other factors.

4) After June, we might see strong pressure on prices levels as more than 60% of new property units will have been/be launched in district 2 and 9, like Empire City in Thu Thiem for example.

I think you need to do a lot more research into the fall of prices in the Australian real estate market than relying on your friends advice. The above quoted reasons are just not on. The prices here in the Northern Territory (Darwin) have been hit hard with the withdrawal of Implex (a major company) and with that many workers have left Darwin and headed back south. It is possible to pick up an appartment that was (3-4 years ago) fetching $800,000- $1,000,000 for $550,000-$700,000. These units all have fantastic views overlooking Darwin Harbour.

Thank you Wadey for your comment.

Good, so you confirm prices are going down.
I do not see the link with the Chinese except if Implex is a Chinese company.

I bought an apartment in hcmc about the same time as Diazo post in 2017 and the price has gone by 40% since then. 2-3 years ago property was still cheap and it’s insane to suggest with the GDP growth that prices were not going to move.

My only regret was that I didn’t buy more units because I felt it was cheap at the time. If you think HCM is expensive do a comparison with places like Manila or KL and understand that Vietnam will eventually surpass both these countries.

What is the pricing like at the moment sort of an average as I will be investing in property's as soon as I get there, dong value is fine I can convert
Thank you for that interesting post

Interesting thread.  I toured HCMC during the xmas holiday last year.  To me, the prices were incredible (compared to SF), but then I looked at the prices in Bangkok (a lot more developed city) and was shocked at how overpriced HCMC was.  It's all anecdotal info of course.  I don't have enough experience to say the places I saw were like for like in quality and other intrinsic, but my impression is that HCMC's real estate market is a massive bubble.

10 years after the US real estate crisis that nearly took the global financial system down another great depression, the rest of the world seem to have forgotten that experience.  Australia, China, and so many countries out there have created massive RE bubbles, based on flippers and low cost of borrowing.  They must all think that RE crisis can only occur in America.

I am very interested in buying RE in Vietnam, but at the moment, it seems very, very overpriced.  I also toured Phu Quoc.  There's hardly any people there.  Lots of tourists, but nowhere enough to support all the ghost cities they're developing on that island.  I've heard Chinese investors are exporting their vacant ghost city concept to many areas in SE Asia.  I think I am going to wait for the next financial crisis (around the corner) before I get into the Vietnam RE market.

The best one sentence summary of 418 posts by Yogi:
" It’s a mugs game for foreigners unless your a Multi National using other people’s money."

Now, people like Colinoscapee, married to a savvy Vietnamese are a different story.
But then those people are not asking those questions on this forum, are they?

You can put as much money as you want in; getting it out is another story and probably will happen in another lifetime.

Wxx3 wrote:

The best one sentence summary of 418 posts by Yogi:
" It’s a mugs game for foreigners unless your a Multi National using other people’s money."

Now, people like Colinoscapee, married to a savvy Vietnamese are a different story.
But then those people are not asking those questions on this forum, are they?

You can put as much money as you want in; getting it out is another story and probably will happen in another lifetime.

As with most things, there is a risk. VN real estate is great for profit making, but can be difficult to navigate. We only buy vacant land, not expensive land in places like Saigon, but in the smaller towns and countryside. The system here for buying and selling is also very different, as there are no lawyers involved in what we do.

Which is why i would stear clear of any development that didn’t have a relatively substantial service charge to pay for staff to take care off communal areas.

Worse I’ve seen is when apartment owners follow the tradition of shoes outside. Except in a hot apartment hallway with no air conditioning or ventilation the whole communual area smells of something much worse than shit. Then there’s the Vietnamese version of keeping up with the Nguyens. Who has the most expensive and loudest karaoke equipment. There was one lady I remember who not only sang during the day and night to let everyone know her feelings but insisted on keeping the door open for everyone walking past to see her too. Service charges pay for staff and security to enforce the rules.

Stick to novaland or vinhomes as it attracts classier homeowners.

Exactly, condos in Bangkok are cheaper and better quality. You also get a sense that they’re better maintained by staff and owners/residents. Thus, looking out for each others investments.

DELAFON wrote:

Thank you Wadey for your comment.

Good, so you confirm prices are going down.
I do not see the link with the Chinese except if Implex is a Chinese company.

Still a hypothetical question I have that no ones answered... or cares. If delafon put his place on the market tomorrow who would buy from him over a vietnamese local selling the same unit but next door?

Why wouldn’t you choose the one of many new builds across the road?

phikachu wrote:

DELAFON wrote:

Thank you Wadey for your comment.

Good, so you confirm prices are going down.
I do not see the link with the Chinese except if Implex is a Chinese company.

Still a hypothetical question I have that no ones answered... or cares. If delafon put his place on the market tomorrow who would buy from him over a vietnamese local selling the same unit but next door?

Why wouldn’t you choose the one of many new builds across the road?

A foreigner would be the best possibility as foreign quota is hard to come by in HCMC. Foreign ownership in a building is restricted to 30% of the project. With the demand from foreigners, foreign quota are generally the first to sell out for well located projects. Foreigners cannot buy from the Vietnamese local selling the same unit next door. The Vietnamese local can only resell it back to a Vietnamese whereas a foreigner can resell it back to both foreign and Vietnamese buyers. There is a premium for foreign owned units as demand is high with limited stock. However, I'm not sure he would get interest at his unit in New City as that project has a lot of internal issues. Hope that helps.

CoderX10 wrote:

phikachu wrote:

DELAFON wrote:

Thank you Wadey for your comment.

Good, so you confirm prices are going down.
I do not see the link with the Chinese except if Implex is a Chinese company.

Still a hypothetical question I have that no ones answered... or cares. If delafon put his place on the market tomorrow who would buy from him over a vietnamese local selling the same unit but next door?

Why wouldn’t you choose the one of many new builds across the road?

A foreigner would be the best possibility as foreign quota is hard to come by in HCMC. Foreign ownership in a building is restricted to 30% of the project. With the demand from foreigners, foreign quota are generally the first to sell out for well located projects. Foreigners cannot buy from the Vietnamese local selling the same unit next door. The Vietnamese local can only resell it back to a Vietnamese whereas a foreigner can resell it back to both foreign and Vietnamese buyers. There is a premium for foreign owned units as demand is high with limited stock. However, I'm not sure he would get interest at his unit in New City as that project has a lot of internal issues. Hope that helps.

Ah yes, someone did answer it already but by private message. It was you.

I’m not trying to diminish the guys investment choices, it was a serious question as being able to sell it on is relatively unknown for everyone.

When I am I next in town and shopping around, I’ll definitely be up for meeting if you got some interesting projects.

Buying apartments in Vietnam, yes, but, be careful, what is happening in New City now may happen in other real estate programs as well....

I paid cash 95% for a 2 bed rooms, 2 bath rooms apartment in New City / District 2 / Saigon in February 2018. I moved in April 2018....
15 months later, here is the truth in New City, Thu Thiem and possible other real estate programs in this country:
New City D2/Q2 - The Truth/Sự Thật
facebook.com/groups/859587304401379/?ref=group_header

Good luck!

DELAFON wrote:

Buying apartments in Vietnam, yes, but, be careful, what is happening in New City now may happen in other real estate programs as well....

I paid cash 95% for a 2 bed rooms, 2 bath rooms apartment in New City / District 2 / Saigon in February 2018. I moved in April 2018....
15 months later, here is the truth in New City, Thu Thiem and possible other real estate programs in this country:
New City D2/Q2 - The Truth/Sự Thật
facebook.com/groups/859587304401379/?ref=group_header

Good luck!

Delafon, the only project in HCMC I hear that is marketed as 'luxury" that has these issues is New City. Even Masteri Thao Dien and Vinhomes Central Park don't have these issues. Sorry to be a buzz kill but get out of New City if you can. Its only going to get worst before it gets any better.

Sorry Codex, but these kind of issues are happening with other developpers as well.

Reason why I did not invest in one of the Vinhome program last year is because I had two foreigners Vinhome investors who shared with me on this forum here that they had to fix/repair several issues  in the 1st year after acquiring their brand new appartment....

DELAFON wrote:

Sorry Codex, but these kind of issues are happening with other developpers as well.

Reason why I did not invest in one of the Vinhome program last year is because I had two foreigners Vinhome investors who shared with me on this forum here that they had to fix/repair several issues  in the 1st year after acquiring their brand new appartment....

Minor defects are common based on the rate that they are building these apartments. In addition, buyers have a 2 year warranty from developer for such defects. However, New City has all sorts of problems including poor craftsmanship and legal issues with the government. It was initially planned as affordable housing until the developer decided to market as luxury with luxurious prices. Can you think of another project besides projects in Thu Thiem that has legal issues with the government? All the big name developers have a reputation to keep while Thuan Viet has no reputation at all. I wish you luck with your investment as you have put your money where their mouth is.

This whole Thu Thiem development is a complete debacle. Now the government watchdog is investigating the HCMC UBND for illegal practices.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ampe.vnexp … 45710.htmlhttps://vietnamnews.vn/society/521926/g … kKfAp09.97

colinoscapee wrote:

This whole Thu Thiem development is a complete debacle. Now the government watchdog is investigating the HCMC UBND for illegal practices.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ampe.vnexp … 45710.htmlhttps://vietnamnews.vn/society/521926/g … kKfAp09.97

Thu Thiem is a mess. Good evidence of corrupt officials displacing residents for personal gain.

CoderX10 wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

This whole Thu Thiem development is a complete debacle. Now the government watchdog is investigating the HCMC UBND for illegal practices.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ampe.vnexp … 45710.htmlhttps://vietnamnews.vn/society/521926/g … kKfAp09.97

Thu Thiem is a mess. Good evidence of corrupt officials displacing residents for personal gain.

My wifes family is going through the same thing just over the river in Nhon Trach. The local UBND chairman took and sold her parents land, the UBND has acknowledge that her parents are the rightful owners, Things move very slowly in VN. Its been 10 years they have been fighting to get back their land.

CoderX10 wrote:

DELAFON wrote:

Sorry Codex, but these kind of issues are happening with other developpers as well.

Reason why I did not invest in one of the Vinhome program last year is because I had two foreigners Vinhome investors who shared with me on this forum here that they had to fix/repair several issues  in the 1st year after acquiring their brand new appartment....

Minor defects are common based on the rate that they are building these apartments. In addition, buyers have a 2 year warranty from developer for such defects. However, New City has all sorts of problems including poor craftsmanship and legal issues with the government. It was initially planned as affordable housing until the developer decided to market as luxury with luxurious prices. Can you think of another project besides projects in Thu Thiem that has legal issues with the government? All the big name developers have a reputation to keep while Thuan Viet has no reputation at all. I wish you luck with your investment as you have put your money where their mouth is.

Dear Codex,

My name is Michel Delafon. Who are you?

1) What you call minor defects in Vinhome, that Vinhome does not want to repait even under warranty does not look minor to me or the owner...

2) A few Developers maintenance teams try not to respect the warranty and it is a hassle to get them to comply!!!

3) All projects in Thu Thiem have the same legal issues with the government. Tell me about an investor in a new apartment in Thu Thiem, Vietnamese or foreign, in the last 2 years who already got his property title (red or pin book). No one to my knowledge!!!!!!!

4) Long term (next 10 to 30 years which is my perspective), New City and Diamond Islands are very nice investment potentials. Short term, we will find a way to negotiate step by step with Thuan Viet. There are more than 1,300 units in New City. When 200 owners stop paying the management fees month after month, Thuan Viet /CRBE will start to listen better. And we are actively working on this!!!

Join our group on facebook on "New City Q2 The Truth", then you can share your opinion better with actual facts being presented.

I do understand your concerns.   But the problems your having are “par for the course” in a lot of apartment developments in Vietnam & other countries in the region.

Even Australia at the moment, it’s starting to surface that shoddy construction practices are “coming home to roost.”   Recently in Sydney , two apartment blocks have been evacuated due to structural faults .   

Many in the industry believe it’s just the tip of the ice berg.   Property booms have escalated the construction of projects bought “off the plan”  . The faster they build them , the faster they get their money.   

The builders warranty / insurance is good for 6 years.   Certified engineers who sign off on projects have now had their insurance premiums rise to ridiculous levels.  Some paying premiums over $1 Million dollars.   They’re walking away from the Industry .

The big worry is..how many more of these shoddy projects will start cracking and sinking.    The “old school” buildings seem Ok.

Here in Vietnam I can tell you what will happen when owners stop paying the regular management fees........they’ll switch off the elevators. 🤓. They’ll say they are faulty & no money to fix.

See what happens then. 

Just hope your not too high up & have good knees.

The Vietnamese know every trick in the book when it comes to using leverage against you.

DELAFON wrote:

CoderX10 wrote:

DELAFON wrote:

Sorry Codex, but these kind of issues are happening with other developpers as well.

Reason why I did not invest in one of the Vinhome program last year is because I had two foreigners Vinhome investors who shared with me on this forum here that they had to fix/repair several issues  in the 1st year after acquiring their brand new appartment....

Minor defects are common based on the rate that they are building these apartments. In addition, buyers have a 2 year warranty from developer for such defects. However, New City has all sorts of problems including poor craftsmanship and legal issues with the government. It was initially planned as affordable housing until the developer decided to market as luxury with luxurious prices. Can you think of another project besides projects in Thu Thiem that has legal issues with the government? All the big name developers have a reputation to keep while Thuan Viet has no reputation at all. I wish you luck with your investment as you have put your money where their mouth is.

Dear Codex,

My name is Michel Delafon. Who are you?

1) What you call minor defects in Vinhome, that Vinhome does not want to repait even under warranty does not look minor to me or the owner...

2) A few Developers maintenance teams try not to respect the warranty and it is a hassle to get them to comply!!!

3) All projects in Thu Thiem have the same legal issues with the government. Tell me about an investor in a new apartment in Thu Thiem, Vietnamese or foreign, in the last 2 years who already got his property title (red or pin book). No one to my knowledge!!!!!!!

4) Long term (next 10 to 30 years which is my perspective), New City and Diamond Islands are very nice investment potentials. Short term, we will find a way to negotiate step by step with Thuan Viet. There are more than 1,300 units in New City. When 200 owners stop paying the management fees month after month, Thuan Viet /CRBE will start to listen better. And we are actively working on this!!!

Join our group on facebook on "New City Q2 The Truth", then you can share your opinion better with actual facts being presented.

You can call me seasoned real estate investor. However, I was not on this board a year and a half ago touting HCMC real estate investments and have a change of heart now since things have not gone as planned. You did it to yourself, and most of us that followed this thread, have witnessed your downfall. Unlike others who have given up on your comments, I just wanted to share my thoughts and facts on your projects you currently own since you are the astute real estate investor in HCMC. To address the points you made:

1) Minor defects are cosmetics items that can easily be repaired or replaced. As long as structural foundation, plumbing, and electrical systems are in working order, everything else is considered minor. If you are telling me you are having plumbing leaks as you received your unit, then that's a big problem.

2) I don't know what to say when it is spelled out in the contract of your rights and warranty. If you cant enforce it, no one else can.

3) Again, Thu Thiem is a mess, I agree 100%. The only project that is completed in Thu Thiem is Sala. From Sala towards the Thu Thiem tunnel is considered Thu Thiem. New City, Diamond Island, and Vista Verde are not part of Thu Thiem. You're only fooling yourself if you think New City is part of Thu Thiem. Or at least that's what the developer wanted you to think when they duped you for your money. By the developer calling the project "Thu Thiem New City" doesn't automatically make the project be located in Thu Thiem. That's Vietnamese marketing for you. New City is in Binh Khanh while Diamond Island and Vista Verde are in Thanh My Loi. By looking at the facade of New City there is nothing luxurious about it. The locals actually call it New Prison for the small windows and over 1000+ cells and the neighboring affordable housing aka "projects."

I'm very familiar with Thu Thiem as I purchased in phase 2 of Empire City. Prices has gone up since but no construction has started since they were completing piling testing and other governmental hurdles. I have, however, singed the SPA. I'm considering selling it and getting out for a small profit. They just started to build phase 1. Again, let me reiterate, there are no projects completed in Thu Thiem with the exception of Sala, so no one should have their pink books at all. For a matter of fact, to my knowledge,  no foreigners have received their pink books in most projects across HCMC with the exception of City Garden. My  friend who owns in City Garden has received his pink book.

4)Thuan Viet has no concerns to hear your complaints as they are focused on bigger matters with the government. They have a big problem by going behind the governments back so they can sell the units for more money while it was approved for affordable housing for relocation of residents in Thu Thiem. Thuan Viet already ran off with the cash and there's no more negotiating. You generally negotiate before the cash transfer hands. I hope that you are in New City for long term cause you wont be able to get out of it in the short term. No one is going to buy it from you. Foreigner or Vietnamese.

I will not be joining your Facebook group regarding New City as I don't have an interest in it. It also seems like it is just you and a few of your disgruntle friends in the group venting how shitty the project is. I am now more focused on land in Binh Duong Province specifically Ben Cat, My Phuoc, and Bau Bang. I wish you luck as you will need it with those investment selection. Don't even get me started with Swan Bay. Good day sir.

🍋

Yogi007 wrote:

Here in Vietnam I can tell you what will happen when owners stop paying the regular management fees........they’ll switch off the elevators. 🤓. They’ll say they are faulty & no money to fix.

See what happens then. 

Just hope your not too high up & have good knees.

The Vietnamese know every trick in the book when it comes to using leverage against you.

A few of us have stopped paying the New City Management fee already, 6 months for me.
Sure, the Vietnamese developers have their tricks.
I have mine... And they will discover them step by step...

CoderX10 wrote:

You can call me seasoned real estate investor.

"seasoned real estate investor" is not your name.

I introduced myself, not you.
You could be anybody.....

Very foolish to believe I am going to read your text.....
I never open the door of my home to strangers who do not even introduce themselves politely..... particularly on the web...

DELAFON wrote:

CoderX10 wrote:

You can call me seasoned real estate investor.

"seasoned real estate investor" is not your name.

I introduced myself, not you.
You could be anybody.....

Very foolish to believe I am going to read your text.....
I never open the door of my home to strangers who do not even introduce themselves politely..... particularly on the web...

So if YOU do something, you EXPECT others to reciprocate? LOL I never asked you to introduce yourself. I've always known you as Delafon who bought New ***. The guy that hyped up HCMC real estate and now crying foul cause he's stuck with some bad projects. That is your own doing sir. You brought all this upon yourself. I can care less if you read it or not but its probably best that you don't because the truth hurts.

They say "never argue with a fool, onlookers may not tell the difference." I'll let the likes in my comment speak for itself and will no longer respond to your comment. I already said enough.

Could I please request posters calm down a little, please?

Now would be lovely.

Fred wrote:

Could I please request posters calm down a little, please?

Now would be lovely.

Yes Fred, thanks a lot.