How do you invest in Vietnam real estate?

Hold on...you said decent before, now youre talking high end.  Two totally different terms. I come from Sydney, but hey, Im sure you know more about Australian RE than I would.

If youre happy buying here, then good for you.

***Vietnam’s Central Bank never was in a position to employ quantitative (QE) easing. I know of no country that will loan to noncitizens. The lender has to have recourse through the judicial system. You are not going to find many who are going to be willing to loan 90-100% LTV ( loan to value). You vet they loan you 90,000 on a property and you head to the airport and go back where you came from. Yes, they get a judgment against you in court. Yet they have no way to get your assets which are in your mother country.
****

What relevance does the above link have to the subject of this thread?

Plaxarc wrote:

Average price from 400k in 2002 to 1.83mm for an "average" detached home in Vancouver in end 2017.  The Lower Mainland and West-Van area will be double to triple this price.

4x Return over 16 years unlevered.  16x return using a standard 25% downpayment.  Where else are you going to get this kind of return.  I'm sure Sydney has returned similarly as Vancouver over the past decade.

So, with those results why are you not investing money in Vancouver?

What a bunch of BS.

@Wxx3
  That is what I am saying this fella talks in circles with BS the means not crap to the market here. I am certain he is a semi-retired manicurist Viet Kieu gazmillionaire that wants to do a little investing for the grand babies. Probably hate the thought of buying all his property close to where he lives so he can affectively manage them. This is the reason he just buys a few it the hot markets of the world where he is unable to use leverage. I am sure he has had many a customer come in for a manicure that floated terms like ATV, QEI etc. The guy can add no true value to the thread, but sure is a hoot to hear him try to blow hot air up our kazoos!! Seems like a wonderful person.

Think positive, buddy. Many people are making good money in VN. just work with the big house providers!

Well, well, well....
In the last 6 months, I met with many different real estate agents, the ones like tinphathouse in this thread 4 example....
And it is always the same crap....

Do not listen to these crooks and be very carefull..

Only 2 or 3 are worth your trust. Personally I selected a small and honesty one. I bought one house and 2 apts thanks to this honest real estate agent. So far, things are really great.

Good luck to all.

DELAFON wrote:

Well, well, well....
In the last 6 months, I met with many different real estate agents, the ones like tinphathouse in this thread 4 example....
And it is always the same crap....

Do not listen to these crooks and be very carefull..

Only 2 or 3 are worth your trust. Personally I selected a small and honesty one. I bought one house and 2 apts thanks to this honest real estate agent. So far, things are really great.

Good luck to all.

Didnt you just write a post where you said an agent tricked you out of 50k after you had bought a place.

Think positive buddy until one of these toads F——s you over. Then you will think in the reality of Vietnam.

colinoscapee wrote:

DELAFON wrote:

Well, well, well....
In the last 6 months, I met with many different real estate agents, the ones like tinphathouse in this thread 4 example....
And it is always the same crap....

Do not listen to these crooks and be very carefull..

Only 2 or 3 are worth your trust. Personally I selected a small and honesty one. I bought one house and 2 apts thanks to this honest real estate agent. So far, things are really great.

Good luck to all.

Didnt you just write a post where you said an agent tricked you out of 50k after you had bought a place.

Right. I got the $ back now.

I am looking to buy Vinhomes golden river.  There are many projects going on but a high-end property in prime are should outperform in the long term.  The city view is about $3,600 per square meter and river view is about $5,000, 40% more expensive than city view..  which one should be better for long term (say 10 years) investment ?

@eaglekite
Your joking aren't you? But it is quite humorous. This thread could use some levity.

I know most people here are skeptical about VN RE.. but I have seen lots of crazy things happening in RE of China, Hong Kong and Seoul.    Why not VN ?  Once Chinese start to pour in, it can triple quadruple easily.  Koreans are already busy in this market and Chinese should follow before long.

It seems you already know what you want to do. Therefore you should be able to make a decision by yourself.

Oh so it was not a joke. I have heard rumors that VN is going to let China takeover all of South VN. That should really improve the RE market here. I think tiger should be at least a 10 fold increase in property values within a year. There is also suppose to be a move afoot for the Koreans to takeover the North of VN. I am buying property now as fast as I can find an honest seller and broker. Times are great  to be a RE investor.now if we can find someone to answer eaglekites question on which is the better buy per square feet.

This is getting better and better.
Really the title or main question should be re-framed,

"Can you SELL your VN property at a profit?"

But then I suppose we would have the same BSers telling how much money they made.

I'll leave with this one last comment.
If there is such easy money to be made, then why aren't the connected Vietnamese who have money, power, protection, buying it themselves?

Oh, maybe they are, taking what profits are to be had and leaving the sucker holding the bag.

I can see an expat buying property under certain conditions, but not as an investment opportunity.

Wxx3 wrote:

Really the title or main question should be re-framed,

"Can you SELL your VN property at a profit?"

But then I suppose we would have the same BSers telling how much money they made.

Why bother re-framing the title then?

Wxx3 wrote:

If there is such easy money to be made, then why aren't the connected Vietnamese who have money, power, protection, buying it themselves?

They do? They lease the land to local and foreign entities wanting to open up factories, warehouses, malls, condoes, schools, etc.

blunders wrote:

Invest in Vietnam Real Estate?

Based on the current legislation, and going by what's been published about the Real Estate business, it would be an extremely risky investment.

The futur will tell...
I just invested in 2 apts and 1 house...
In order to manage the risks, I invested the other 50% of my capital into Parisian and European Real Estate...

I bet these Vietnamese investments will have a better ROI over the next years!!!
Who want to bet one or two beers with me???

Ponzi schemes work for a lot of people until the end.

Isn’t that the truth. Curious Delafon did you get a house book for the house in your name? The wonderful merits of investing in large condo complexes was on demonstration in D8 when many were killed and the fire alarms never activated. If they ever worked from the outset. I once lived in a high rise complex and never did I seee or hear them test the alarm systems.

Diazo,

My company buy the house...

Just hoping to find someone that has tried to apply the new rulestgat foreigners can buy a house and have it in their name. So far no ones hassaid they have.
Wonder what happens to your property when the VNese government shuts down your company. They are quite fond of doing that.

Just to clarify, for those who still care, I didn't mean to imply to never buy a home in Vietnam. Many people do, 99% Vietnamese. Why is that?
Because worse case, they will live in that home until they die or rent it, even at a loss, so they can pass it to their children, grand-kids etc.
It works because they will get value from it forever.
The Expat investment theory however fails for that very reason.
Investment means the intent is to get your money back plus hopefully some gain. Worse case, you lose significantly, 50% like happened to many in the last housing crisis.

The issue in Vietnam, is that it's more likely you have something that is unsaleable and the locals know it. (Because if it was a valued investment, they would have bought it themselves!) So they will never buy it from you, when they know they will get it for pennies on the dollar sooner or later.
So it's not an investment, it's more like playing dice.

Diazo wrote:

Just hoping to find someone that has tried to apply the new rulestgat foreigners can buy a house and have it in their name. So far no ones hassaid they have.
Wonder what happens to your property when the VNese government shuts down your company. They are quite fond of doing that.

Diazo, future will tell...
The developper wanted me to buy in my own name...

My friends, more than 30 years in Vietnam never had their company shutdown...
And they never heard such stories  of the governemtnbeing fond of shutting down companies either...

Are you sure you are leaving in Vietnam???

Indeed the future will tell. But it seems a dubious way to invest.... ” oh well let's just leave it to the future”. And yes, I know of a few who have had their companies shut down.
Myself I find a great deal of reason to pause when I for one, have no status in a country other than being a tourist. And secondly, I find a reason to pause when I cannot buy something in my own name.

But it all points to my original comments about having recourse in the courts. We, as tourist have little recourse in the court system and even then decisions are rendered based on who pays what they nicely call ”lobbying” money go the judge.
  And in the end, we all gave the free choice to invest our money where we wish. But most would be served better by trying to mitigate the risk.
  And yes, all investments are left to ”hopes of the future”. The more liquid the investment the less we have to place in the future. RE he is not a real liquid investment in Vietnam. Here worse than other countries as it is not a very mobile society.

Diazo wrote:

Indeed the future will tell. But it seems a dubious way to invest.... ” oh well let's just leave it to the future”. And yes, I know of a few who have had their companies shut down.
Myself I find a great deal of reason to pause when I for one, have no status in a country other than being a tourist. And secondly, I find a reason to pause when I cannot buy something in my own name.

But it all points to my original comments about having recourse in the courts. We, as tourist have little recourse in the court system and even then decisions are rendered based on who pays what they nicely call ”lobbying” money go the judge.
  And in the end, we all gave the free choice to invest our money where we wish. But most would be served better by trying to mitigate the risk.
  And yes, all investments are left to ”hopes of the future”. The more liquid the investment the less we have to place in the future. RE he is not a real liquid investment in Vietnam. Here worse than other countries as it is not a very mobile society.

I have my own company and a long term visa, very easy to get for  me!

You're a tourist, not a citizen of the country my friend. May do well to check out your rights as a tourist.

Perhaps you have not read the immigration laws. Anyone of us can be summarily deported at any time with no recourse.
In essence this means they take you out of the hone your business owns and tajw you to a point of debarkation. See how far you or your company get arguing yoye case that your stay here as a guest is being violated.
I am not saying your wrong for the position you have taken. Just not a foundation I want for any investments of mine.

But you did answer my real curiosity.... And that was whether you were able to get a house book in your name. And the answer to that is no. So currently no one has surfaced that has been able to say that the new law allowing foreigners to have a house in their name.

Diazo wrote:

You're a tourist, not a citizen of the country my friend. May do well to check out your rights as a tourist.

Sorry, but, you are the tourist, not me...
I have this long term residence card, whether you believe my post or not!!!... Thats is it!!!...
You got that this time???!!!...

Diazo wrote:

Perhaps you have not read the immigration laws. Anyone of us can be summarily deported at any time with no recourse.
In essence this means they take you out of the hone your business owns and tajw you to a point of debarkation. See how far you or your company get arguing yoye case that your stay here as a guest is being violated.
I am not saying your wrong for the position you have taken. Just not a foundation I want for any investments of mine.

I posted already: "My friends, more than 30 years in Vietnam never had their company shutdown...
And they never heard such stories  of the governemtnbeing fond of shutting down companies either..."

Diazo wrote:

But you did answer my real curiosity.... And that was whether you were able to get a house book in your name. And the answer to that is no. So currently no one has surfaced that has been able to say that the new law allowing foreigners to have a house in their name.

Very, very very sorry, you do not read my post. I answered already.
I will stop loosing my time with you now. I answered already.
Read, read, read, read, read, read, read, read, read, read, read, read, read my post!!!...

You have a TEMPORARY residence card. I wonder what the temporary part implies and what the rules for which we stay here under such status are. I too have one.

I "attempted" to buy land in Sai Gon.

Keep in mind "definitions" are "translated" based on domestic language.

in terms of "residency" ... to buy/rent/lease ( whatever ), you simply need a "current & valid" residency permit of some type ( Not including business ownership of land which is a system of its own ). Legally, even a person under a tourist visa can purchase land.

I was simply not granted right of purchase because the land i was interested in was too close to an "exclusion zone" ( no they did not tell me "why" i was declined, but considering the agency that gave the decline only has one purpose, it was obvious ). To further explain, an "Exclusion Zone" is a location that Viet Nam deems to be a "security risk" of some type. NOBODY can actually give you a map of where these security risks might be located because that would be like painting a target on a location and identifying it. SADLY this results in wasted time for property shopping because you simply have no idea of what areas to NOT look in to save yourself the time & hassle.

I am "assuming" that had i not been declined for that purpose, I would have owned property in Sai Gon, and in my own name as well.

DELAFON would be accurate in his projections as that a "business" owning property is slightly less hassle than a "person". Viet Nam appears to be attempting to hold a policy trying to get foreign businesses to relocate to Viet Nam ( Much lower taxes for foreign enterprises ), so it would seem reasonable for them to grant ease for a "company" where they normally do not for any joe schmoe.

In terms of "investment" .... land ownership sucks from a US Perspective. Keep in mind, as someone as stated many times over in previous replies, it is a communist state, and you do not "OWN" ( by western definition ), you are simply purchasing "Right of Usage" which is legally defined as a "Limited Lease" by western standards ( You even have to ask permission to cut trees if they happen to be located at a spot you want to build ). But, for "investment" purposes, most large "Developers" are simply interested in "high numbers" in terms of sales. Build big houses and sell for large numbers, expecting to market to about 15% of the population that can afford it. If you drive around Sai Gon, you can find soooooo many vacant houses and apartments. ( Taxation is so low, that there is no incentive to sell until you get the price you want - subject to change soon as there are current talks of taxation changes )

On the flip side of all of this, rarely do people look at "low income apartments" as a form of investment. Which is much more lucrative having 12 to 24 single room efficiencies as rentals for 2 to 3 million VND per month ( which is a very easy to market ).

It should also be noted that construction itself as well as maintenance is such a complete turn off to western buyers. Does anyone actually "SEE" any active maintenance on homes/buildings as they drive around? Look at something as trivial as "paint" the next time you walk into a hardware store ... look at drain traps in floor drains and watch the bugs crawl out at night, as well as the smell of "poo".... Even in construction, Viets seem to take the path that cost the least in every wayt they can.

Viet Nam is the pure definition of "Buyer Beware" terminology that western nations scream about. Even at the supposed "luxury" prices, you are still buying "trash" that you have to spend more money to even make it remotely close to Western or European standards.

Also ... i wanted to comment on the MLS Stats from Canada in an attempt to compare it to Viet Nam .... That "supply & demand" is based on the increasing immigration of Canada which largely lead to their market value increase which has been identical to California USA .... For it to even sound logical as a projection for Viet Nam, you would have to show a mass increase of immigration to Viet Nam ( which does not exist ).

@DELAFON.
You  misunderstood me perhaps. Yes, I read and re-read your reply to my question “ were you able to get the house in your name.” To which you answered no, the developer wanted me to but I wanted it in my business name. I was simply curious if anyone had truly been able to purchase a house as a foreigner and get it in their name. And so far no one has come forward and said they have been able to do that.
  Then came the read and the re-read of your replies.
Then starts the odor of a bull shit story. “ I have my own company and along term VISA, very easy to get for me”. Then we go on with more of the BS story “ I have a long term RESIDENCE card....”.
  When you first started spinning your tale long ago I was a little skeptical of the veracity of it all. And you you stated “..... whether you believe it or not!. “  So, no I do not believe any of wat you said. And I doubt you believe it either. One moment you have a long term visa and the next you have a residency card. Which story do you believe.
And @ jayjones you echo much of my own sentiments. I have heard for some time now that foreigners can indeed own land/house in there name. But to date have not run into anyone here on the forum or elsewhere who has got the house book in their names.
  And I hear you about property upkeep. The first time an agent tried to get me to buy into a condo that was brand spanking New I thought well is there and home owners association or some assurance anyone is going to take care of the common areas. I, at the time was living in a high rise and the common areas looked like crap and the place was about 7 years old. Every six months I paid to have the common areas of my own floor painted.
  And you are spot on when you speak of investing in the lower end of the housing spectrum. In my country as a real estate investor for income we buy homes in the “sweetspot” . The sweet spot being defined as 28% of the median income level for a given area. This gives you the largest tenant population to draw from and not have to go for those you will have to evict every few months. But to buy the exspensive units people speak of here makes no sense to me. Even if I were going to consider investing in a country I only had tourist status in.

I wasn't "echoing you" ... i was flat out "agreeing with you" .... the issue seems to be that everyone is literally debating semantics of word definitions, then on top of that attempting to differentiate between the countless types of "investment". Contrary to what one said about His "company" buying large plots of land ... I can't imagine a western "person" wanting to even remotely deal with that type of headache in their own nation, let alone on foreign soil. ( Apples to Oranges )

I would be more interested in knowing more about "tenant laws" of VN ... what seems logical as being "what is written in a contract" SHOULD apply, but have not even heard many whispers about what the reality is, or from anyone that has stated any experience.

Heck I worry from renewal to renewal wherthercI will be able to renew my status here as I thought I would a few months ago. K have pondered buying a large motorcycle ( and of course putting it in my wife’s name). But then I think is that wise, I have no clue if they will round us all up and escort us out. Highly unlikely I think. But do I want to drop a few hundred thousand on such a situation.

Diazo wrote:

Heck I worry from renewal to renewal wherthercI will be able to renew my status here as I thought I would a few months ago. K have pondered buying a large motorcycle ( and of course putting it in my wife’s name). But then I think is that wise, I have no clue if they will round us all up and escort us out. Highly unlikely I think. But do I want to drop a few hundred thousand on such a situation.

Isn't this the REAL question we ask ourselves CONSTANTLY?

Unlike you, I'm not married... so I have no backup option of security by putting an asset in a wife's name. Even my business investments are VERY low risk of loss due their nature and how they operate...

No matter how much thought i put into this, I honestly do not think there will ever be a sense of security here. Is there even a hope for a sense of security here?