I'm New..............

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

thanks your guide, it can be a good way for me in read. I will be receptive it. ^^
And, how to hear so good?

I dont understand what you say.

haha I'm sorry.. i would like ask you, how can more easily understood when listening to people speak?
Example: Sometimes, when  im speaking with somebody about some story, but they speak is so fast, and me is difficult to understand or understand nothing. So, how to do?

thorny_rose wrote:

haha I'm sorry.. i would like ask you, how can more easily understood when listening to people speak?
Example: Sometimes, when  im speaking with somebody about some story, but they speak is so fast, and me is difficult to understand or understand nothing. So, how to do?

As I've said, watch more English movies & take note of their conversations. Sometimes accent plays a part too. My Australian cousin sometimes speak their accent & I cant understand. I need him to repeat it again.

Speak more & you'll gradually learn. Trust me, you can do it.....

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

haha I'm sorry.. i would like ask you, how can more easily understood when listening to people speak?
Example: Sometimes, when  im speaking with somebody about some story, but they speak is so fast, and me is difficult to understand or understand nothing. So, how to do?

As I've said, watch more English movies & take note of their conversations. Sometimes accent plays a part too. My Australian cousin sometimes speak their accent & I cant understand. I need him to repeat it again.

Speak more & you'll gradually learn. Trust me, you can do it.....

Ya, sometimes, i want to watching some E movies,too but no freetime to see everytime, when i open my computer,I have to working with CD and specialized music. when have a free time, it's short times, and the movies is so long, 2,5 hours) so, can not see full movies, so i choose the way to listen to music. it's accord with my times, but maybe, it's not better than see movies. Maybe, i have to be more tries. NO too many opportunity to speak with friends, they are busy, me too. And, the time is diffirent. And my job is not related to E, so, it's a limit for me, too Maybe, i have to be change my job )

thorny_rose wrote:

Ya, sometimes, i want to watching some E movies,too but no freetime to see everytime, when i open my computer,I have to working with CD and specialized music. when have a free time, it's short times, and the movies is so long, 2,5 hours) so, can not see full movies, so i choose the way to listen to music. it's accord with my times, but maybe, it's not better than see movies. Maybe, i have to be more tries. NO too many opportunity to speak with friends, they are busy, me too. And, the time is diffirent. And my job is not related to E, so, it's a limit for me, too Maybe, i have to be change my job )

Working with CD? What job is that? You're a musician?

I do agree that sometimes time is a factor, cant blame you also.

It takes time to learn. Dont worry. You're still very young. Tons of chances for you. Same for me for my Tieng Viet....

No a mussician. I'm a chreographer. Created up the dancer shows and art shows.  My expertise is the traditional dances. I'm not musician, but i always working with musician ^^
Yes, you need to learn vietnamese if you like to working in Vietnam, one day. But me, learn E to just speak with some my friends, no used to it for any work. ^^

thorny_rose wrote:

No a mussician. I'm a choreographer. Created up the dancer shows and art shows.  My expertise is the traditional dances. I'm not musician, but i always working with musician ^^
Yes, you need to learn vietnamese if you like to working in Vietnam, one day. But me, learn E to just speak with some my friends, no used to it for any work. ^^

Awesome. I've never seen Vietnamese traditional dance before or have I???? I've only seen thai & cambodia dances.

I love music & can play guitar but im not a professional. Just a bedroom rocker......

No worries. Learning english is your interest. You must not give up... Who knows you might need it in the future.......

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

^

Awesome. I've never seen Vietnamese traditional dance before or have I???? I've only seen thai & cambodia dances.

I love music & can play guitar but im not a professional. Just a bedroom rocker......

No worries. Learning english is your interest. You must not give up... Who knows you might need it in the future.......

Vietnam have 54 ethnic group. Every ethnic group has a diffirent dance. We have Thai people has originating from Thailand and Cham people has originating from Cambodia. Their dance and own language has a bit same with Thailand and Cambodian. their dance is very nice and famous in Vietnam. :)It's a part in vietnamese  traditional dance. If you see, you will love it, because it's very  special. (i ad ) 
wow, can you play voltaic guitar? Very well. I can play guita, too. But it's normal only. I had a course for 5 months when i was 17 year old. It was a longtime. Now, i forget, just remember a bit. ^^ I don't leave my E, never mind because i have to speaking with my friends, and come here to chat with everyone ^_^
and promise will learn more.. ( maybe, i can need it for my change job in future ) ^^ ) Thanks your advice

thorny_rose wrote:

Vietnam have 54 ethnic group. Every ethnic group has a diffirent dance. We have Thai people has originating from Thailand and Cham people has originating from Cambodia. Their dance and own language has a bit same with Thailand and Cambodia. their dance is very nice and famous in Vietnam. :)It's a part in vietnamese  traditional dance. If you see, you will love it, because it's very  special. (i ad ) 
wow, can you play voltaic guitar? Very well. I can play guita, too. But it's normal only. I had a course for 5 months when i was 17 year old. It was a longtime. Now, i forget, just remember a bit. ^^ I don't leave my E, never mind because i have to speaking with my friends, and come here to chat with everyone ^_^
and promise will learn more.. ( maybe, i can need it for my change job in future ) ^^ ) Thanks your advice

I know that Vietnam has 54 ethnic groups. I hope to be able to watch a performance when I go there.

voltaic? I dont understand..

I can play guitar. I teach myself through books, videos, youtube. I dont go to courses........

ya, you can choose to see some programs in some theatres. You can see what you want. There are a lot of theatres in Ha Noi, Da Nang and HCM. In HN, Hanoi Opera House is center theatre of HN, It's in 01_ Trang Tien_ Hoan Kiem district. Without it, There are the others, like : HN CaiLuong theatre,( 72_ Hang Bac_ Hoan Kiem), Thang Long Water Puppet Theatre ( 57B _ Dinh Tien Hoang _ Hoan Kiem), Thang Long dance music Theatre.( 31_ Luong Van can_ Hoan Kiem) Ha Noi Cheo Theatre ( 15 _ Nguyen Dinh Chieu) ...
And so many others. If you want to see the dancer of Vietnamese you can go to see Thang Long dancer music theatre. If you come to Ha Noi. Or if you want to see in Internet. you click to here
http://cdmuavn.edu.vn/ If wb of my school, and click to videoclip. It has some videoclip of dance. ^^
and Voltaic is a guita for rook play. I like it. And i like to hear guita sounds, too

thorny_rose wrote:

ya, you can choose to see some programs in some theatres. You can see what you want. There are a lot of theatres in Ha Noi, Da Nang and HCM. In HN, Hanoi Opera House is center theatre of HN, It's in 01_ Trang Tien_ Hoan Kiem district. Without it, There are the others, like : HN CaiLuong theatre,( 72_ Hang Bac_ Hoan Kiem), Thang Long Water Puppet Theatre ( 57B _ Dinh Tien Hoang _ Hoan Kiem), Thang Long dance music Theatre.( 31_ Luong Van can_ Hoan Kiem) Ha Noi Cheo Theatre ( 15 _ Nguyen Dinh Chieu) ...
And so many others. If you want to see the dancer of Vietnamese you can go to see Thang Long dancer music theatre. If you come to Ha Noi. Or if you want to see in Internet. you click to here
http://cdmuavn.edu.vn/ If wb of my school, and click to videoclip. It has some videoclip of dance. ^^
and Voltaic is a guita for rook play. I like it. And i like to hear guita sounds, too

I will definitely check this out when I go there....

Voltaic is a Vietnamese or French word? Never heard it before.

This is my favorite guitarist. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaMnyUJ4428

it's voltaic. i don't know it's what word. my friends often call like that. It's  not vietnamese, vietnamese call " ghi ta điện "
I have 2 friends, they can play it, too. before, they  played in a rookband of Vinh. 1 girl, 1 boy. ^^
I like to listen to it very much. But can not more learn. ^^

thorny_rose wrote:

it's voltaic. i don't know it's what word. my friends often call like that. It's  not vietnamese, vietnamese call " ghi ta điện "
I have 2 friends, they can play it, too. before, they  played in a rookband of Vinh. 1 girl, 1 boy. ^^
I like to listen to it very much. But can not more learn. ^^

ghi ta điện in English is electric guitar.

Hi Rose, your new profile picture looks good

thorny_rose wrote:

it's voltaic. i don't know it's what word. my friends often call like that. It's  not vietnamese, vietnamese call " ghi ta điện "
I have 2 friends, they can play it, too. before, they  played in a rookband of Vinh. 1 girl, 1 boy. ^^
I like to listen to it very much. But can not more learn. ^^

henrylamcs wrote:

Hi Rose, your new profile picture looks good

Bro, what are you thinking about????

I am just stating the facts . Her present picture looks modern Keep it up.

lostsouls wrote:

henrylamcs wrote:

Hi Rose, your new profile picture looks good

Bro, what are you thinking about????

henrylamcs wrote:

I am just stating the facts . Her present picture looks modern Keep it up.

No doubt about it. The background looks nice too.

Cant wait for next month!!!!!!!!

henrylamcs wrote:

Hi Rose, your new profile picture looks good

thorny_rose wrote:

it's voltaic. i don't know it's what word. my friends often call like that. It's  not vietnamese, vietnamese call " ghi ta điện "
I have 2 friends, they can play it, too. before, they  played in a rookband of Vinh. 1 girl, 1 boy. ^^
I like to listen to it very much. But can not more learn. ^^

Thanks for your praise. I photoed it in some days ago when i came back my native land. This time, i wanted to become a "Tarzan". he he ^^ To have it, i was very hard. I climbed up a tree in a marsh with a jean, sweater, and boot. After when i coming down, i fell down marsh. And all my clothes were full dirty It's a bad day with not had suny, My young cousin photoed it by mobiphone, so it was not clean like that.  

@ lostsoul: I know it's electrict guita, if translated from vietnamese to E. It's "electric guita".
It's a country of Vinh, where i was born, opposite to Lam river, and the dried trees in the marshs. It's very nice in this season. A fefect full grey. No anywhere has it, only my homeland ^^

thorny_rose wrote:

@ lostsoul: I know it's electrict guita, if translated from vietnamese to E. It's "electric guita".
It's a country of Vinh, where i was born, opposite to Lam river, and the dried trees in the marshs. It's very nice in this season. A fefect full grey. No anywhere has it, only my homeland ^^

Seems like a paradise.......

You made me wana visit there.

Why can't wait for next month ??

lostsouls wrote:

henrylamcs wrote:

I am just stating the facts . Her present picture looks modern Keep it up.

No doubt about it. The background looks nice too.

Cant wait for next month!!!!!!!!

Hi Lee, there you go again

Hi Rose, any idea on how can you let Lee drop by your hometown?

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

@ lostsoul: I know it's electrict guita, if translated from vietnamese to E. It's "electric guita".
It's a country of Vinh, where i was born, opposite to Lam river, and the dried trees in the marshs. It's very nice in this season. A fefect full grey. No anywhere has it, only my homeland ^^

Seems like a paradise.......

You made me wana visit there.

Hi Lysa, I think Lee is saying that as an expression of how he yearns to come to HCMC, but instead he needs to wait for next month.

I think he will enjoy this coming trip alot..............

Lysa Tran wrote:

Why can't wait for next month ??

lostsouls wrote:

henrylamcs wrote:

I am just stating the facts . Her present picture looks modern Keep it up.

No doubt about it. The background looks nice too.

Cant wait for next month!!!!!!!!

henrylamcs wrote:

Hi Lysa, I think Lee is saying that as an expression of how he yearns to come to HCMC, but instead he needs to wait for next month.

I think he will enjoy this coming trip alot..............

You betcha bro..........

henrylamcs wrote:

Hi Lee, there you go again

Hi Rose, any idea on how can you let Lee drop by your hometown?

Henry, dont like that leh.......

I would love to, but next time. I have plans for this particular trip roi.....

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

@

Seems like a paradise.......

You made me wana visit there.

No, it's not like a paradise. If is a paradise, it's nice in the summer. In summer, it's a tree forest deluged is green. Sometimes when have a blue sky, white clouds with full sunny, and the trees, they are full green. And, this season, the birds, they come there to find the foods. A lot of birds, they fly ever herd, full white. If you see this time, you will think it's a paradise. The summer in my hometown is like that. But, now, it's a reverse. Look at my pic, please. You will see. It's a full grey. A grey sky, the trees not green, they are  nudity, no any a leave. The body of trees is dryness. The wet soil, not muddy. They are dryness but still very strongly. And the shape is very nice. If just 1 tree like that, i think look it, will very sad. But they are a tree forest. I feel it's nice for a way wild, strange and a little sad. I don't know how to description, beacause myself is surprise, too. But i think it's very nice.
@henry: I don't know how to answer for your question. ^^ He don't like, and if he likes, i don't know i can be or not. This 22 of march, i have a work travel to southern of Vietnam for 1 month. It's Daclak, Kontum and DaLat. And don't know exactly the date to come back. Maybe, the end days of April.

thorny_rose wrote:

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

@

Seems like a paradise.......

You made me wana visit there.

No, it's not like a paradise. If is a paradise, it's nice in the summer. In summer, it's a tree forest deluged is green. Sometimes when have a blue sky, white clouds with full sunny, and the trees, they are full green. And, this season, the birds, they come there to find the foods. A lot of birds, they fly ever herd, full white. If you see this time, you will think it's a paradise. The summer in my hometown is like that. But, now, it's a reverse. Look at my pic, please. You will see. It's a full grey. A grey sky, the trees not green, they are  nudity, no any a leave. The body of trees is dryness. The wet soil, not muddy. They are dryness but still very strongly. And the shape is very nice. If just 1 tree like that, i think look it, will very sad. But they are a tree forest. I feel it's nice for a way wild, strange and a little sad. I don't know how to description, beacause myself is surprise, too. But i think it's very nice.
@henry: I don't know how to answer for your question. ^^ He don't like, and if he likes, i don't know i can be or not. This 22 of march, i have a work travel to southern of Vietnam for 1 month. It's Daclak, Kontum and DaLat. And don't know exactly the date to come back. Maybe, the end days of April.

Rose:

Sometimes withering trees or leaves also portray their beauty. It doesn't mean it must be green leaves & tall, strong trees.

Some professional photographers like to capture these kind of scenery

Work is more important, mate. If theres fate, we'll meet....

I should come on end of April so I can see how Vietnamese celebrate Reunification Day. Next time...............

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

lostsouls wrote:

You made me wana visit there.

Rose:
Sometimes withering trees or leaves also portray their beauty. It doesn't mean it must be green leaves & tall, strong trees.

Some professional photographers like to capture these kind of scenery

Work is more important, mate. If theres fate, we'll meet....

I should come on end of April so I can see how Vietnamese celebrate Reunification Day. Next time...............

The mean of your word is i'm a photographer ? ah, happy happy.. if you tell me " you are a professional photographer" I tell you, immediately, i leave my job, i buy a camera and go to photo picture la.
The Reunification Days is nothing specialy now. the people is happy by freetime to make a travel or simply just stay at home for relax. Government organizing cultural shows for own them. The tourism build some thing to attract tourists. every year is the same. It's not 8 year ago. when came to this days, everyfamily cooked the small party, every member in a family was happy and proud to welcome it's coming...

thorny_rose wrote:

The mean of your word is i'm a photographer ? ah, happy happy.. if you tell me " you are a professional photographer" I tell you, immediately, i leave my job, i buy a camera and go to photo picture la.
The Reunification Days is nothing specialy now. the people is happy by freetime to make a travel or simply just stay at home for relax. Government organizing cultural shows for own them. The tourism build some thing to attract tourists. every year is the same. It's not 8 year ago. when came to this days, everyfamily cooked the small party, every member in a family was happy and proud to welcome it's coming...

YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!!!

Understand. You know, I read online that many Viet Kieus are sad & unhappy on this day. I know what's going on. I also feel their pain.

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!!!

Understand. You know, I read online that many Viet Kieus are sad & unhappy on this day. I know what's going on. I also feel their pain.

Not true, not sincerely la. You tell me " you are a professtinal photographer" but after you laugh me la..
I don't want to say no good words about my Vietnam, but it's truth. Before, when we was poor but we fell respect and proud about it. But now.., the vietnamese teen now, they don't attention and care to it. They hope to this days only because they can get freetime to play, don't be care what is days.

thorny_rose wrote:

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!!!

Understand. You know, I read online that many Viet Kieus are sad & unhappy on this day. I know what's going on. I also feel their pain.

Not true, not sincerely la. You tell me " you are a professtinal photographer" but after you laugh me la..
I don't want to say no good words about my Vietnam, but it's truth. Before, when we was poor but we fell respect and proud about it. But now.., so many vietnamese teens now, they don't attention and care to it. They hope to this days only because they can get freetime to play, don't be care what is days.

thorny_rose wrote:

Not true, not sincerely la. You tell me " you are a professtinal photographer" but after you laugh me la..
I don't want to say no good words about my Vietnam, but it's truth. Before, when we was poor but we fell respect and proud about it. But now.., so many vietnamese teens now, they don't attention and care to it. They hope to this days only because they can get freetime to play, don't be care what is days.

OK la.

You are a professional photographer. Does this sounds good?

What do you mean before? Before 1975?

Actually, I admire Uncle Ho for reunifying Vietnam.

I agree with you nowadays teenagers dont care about the Communist government. We lead our own lives, dont need anybody to control.

i go buy a Camera
You admire Uncle Ho, so do you know, our Uncle Ho have not a wife.
Modern life is good, but traditionally, the roots are also important.

thorny_rose wrote:

i go buy a Camera
You admire Uncle Ho, so do you know, our Uncle Ho have not a wife.
Modern life is good, but traditionally, the roots are also important.

Great. Canon 7D Mark II or Nikon D300..

I know. I also know Ho Chi Minh is not his real name. His real name is Nguyen Sinh Cung. I've read about his biography. Hes been to France when young to work in a restaurant, i think, went to jail in China, etc........

Correct. Although modern life is good, Me as a Chinese & you as a Vietnamese must not forget our roots. Chinese & Vietnamese are linked in number of ways. China used to rule Vietnam until 900+ AD.

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

Great. Canon 7D Mark II or Nikon D300..
I know. I also know Ho Chi Minh is not his real name. His real name is Nguyen Sinh Cung. I've read about his biography. Hes been to France when young to work in a restaurant, i think, went to jail in China, etc........
Correct. Although modern life is good, Me as a Chinese & you as a Vietnamese must not forget our roots. Chinese & Vietnamese are linked in number of ways. China used to rule Vietnam until 900+ AD.

I have a camera now . and deeply sorry, it's not canon 7D Mark II or Nikon D300.. It's digital camera Sony cyber-shot
DSC-w350 And be writing a permission leave job paper, tomorrow i give for my chief .
If you know us uncle Ho has not wife, so you imitate him? ^^
ah, you know you are chinese, me is vietnamese, and China used to rule Vietnam until 1000 year, so you are my enemy?

thorny_rose wrote:

I have a camera now . and deeply sorry, it's not canon 7D Mark II or Nikon D300.. It's digital camera Sony cyber-shot
DSC-w350 And be writing a permission leave job paper, tomorrow i give for my chief .
If you know us uncle Ho has not wife, so you imitate him? ^^
ah, you know you are chinese, me is vietnamese, and China used to rule Vietnam until 1000 year, so you are my enemy?

Its OK. Its the skill that matters, not the camera. IF you have skills, you can use a lousy camera but take great pictures too.

Its called a resignation letter. You sure you give him today???

I only admire Uncle Ho. I never want to imitate him to be single. Xin loi....

No more enemy now. We have almost the same roots, culture, etc. How to be your enemy? We pray to the same God, Buddha.

Do you know that Thailand, Cambodia are influenced by Hinduism from India but Vietnam is not. Because between the borders, the terrain is too treacherous & mountainous for the religion to cross over to Vietnam. So only Thailand, Cambodia, Myanmar & Laos were influenced. (I studied my history...)

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

Its OK. Its the skill that matters, not the camera. IF you have skills, you can use a lousy camera but take great pictures too.
Its called a resignation letter. You sure you give him today???
I only admire Uncle Ho. I never want to imitate him to be single. Xin loi....
No more enemy now. We have almost the same roots, culture, etc. How to be your enemy? We pray to the same God, Buddha.
Do you know that Thailand, Cambodia are influenced by Hinduism from India but Vietnam is not. Because between the borders, the terrain is too treacherous & mountainous for the religion to cross over to Vietnam. So only Thailand, Cambodia, Myanmar & Laos were influenced. (I studied my history...)

It's camera. If it's not a camera so, how to photo pics by it? I know the camera has 2 kinds.
ah, this morning, i give him my resignation letter for my chief already. But he didn't accepted. He returned it for me. It's surprise. Do you know, what did he tell me? He said: " If you leave your job, Group choreography of Vietnam will lose a talent
and Theatre will lose a fantatic teacher. I can not accept a loss." So, i still have to working. Can not leave. he he
I think that you will imitate him because you admire him, i was mistaken. i don't pray to God, i pray to Buddha. ah, because you tell me, you know Chinese used to oppression on old vietnamese, so, i'm a chilrden if old Vietnamese

thorny_rose wrote:

It's camera. If it's not a camera so, how to photo pics by it? I know the camera has 2 kinds.
ah, this morning, i give him my resignation letter for my chief already. But he didn't accepted. He returned it for me. It's surprise. Do you know, what did he tell me? He said: " If you leave your job, Group choreography of Vietnam will lose a talent
and Theatre will lose a fantatic teacher. I can not accept a loss." So, i still have to working. Can not leave. he he
I think that you will imitate him because you admire him, i was mistaken. i don't pray to God, i pray to Buddha. ah, because you tell me, you know Chinese used to oppression on old vietnamese, so, i'm a chilrden if old Vietnamese

I mean if you have the skills, a normal camera can also take good pictures.

Wow! You are indispensable to the choreography of Vietnam!! This shows how much talent you have, mate...

Admiration & imitation are 2 different things. I can never be like him. I can only admire him.

In God's term, I meant Buddha, not Jesus.. I pray to Quan Âm.

Yes, I know that. Ancient Chinese introduced many things to ancient Vietnam like politics, arts, literature, music, architecture, religion, etc. Vietnam was a country with written language prior to Chinese influence. Under foreign rule, the Vietnamese people lost their writing system, language, and much of their national identity.

@lostsoul: I'm impressed. you knows many Vietnamese term

Wow, you are coming to HCM city. What a regret I'm not at home this moment. I will be back to HCMC in June. Hic.

girl_like_me wrote:

@lostsoul: I'm impressed. you knows many Vietnamese term

Wow, you are coming to HCM city. What a regret I'm not at home this moment. I will be back to HCMC in June. Hic.

Still an amateur. Long way to perfection....

No worries, mate. When there's a will to meet up, there's a way...

So where are you now?????

ah, I told you once and you forgot. I'm in Sydney doing my linguistics course. I will finish in June and be back home.

what other Vietnamese words that you know?

lostsouls wrote:

thorny_rose wrote:

I mean if you have the skills, a normal camera can also take good pictures.
Wow! You are indispensable to the choreography of Vietnam!! This shows how much talent you have, mate...
Admiration & imitation are 2 different things. I can never be like him. I can only admire him.
In God's term, I meant Buddha, not Jesus.. I pray to Quan Âm.
Yes, I know that. Ancient Chinese introduced many things to ancient Vietnam like politics, arts, literature, music, architecture, religion, etc. Vietnam was a country with written language prior to Chinese influence. Under foreign rule, the Vietnamese people lost their writing system, language, and much of their national identity.

skills or not i don't know. But i like to photography
i don't say that. look at " " please. My chief says.. haha ( you make me shy) ^^
Ah, Buddha lady is my idol. ^^ i alway prayed her. Chinese in that time is real cruel, don't know, how is chinese now?

girl_like_me wrote:

ah, I told you once and you forgot. I'm in Sydney doing my linguistics course. I will finish in June and be back home.

what other Vietnamese words that you know?

Wahahaha, you suddenly upload a profile pic. I wonder who that was. Sydney's a nice place. I've been there 2x. My sister is currently in Brisbane studying accounts.

Other Vietnamese words? You wouldn't want to know. Its offensive.

I know pretty much the basics like good morning, hello, how much money, I want to go........, etc....