VN decision to scrap residence book

welcome to the 21st century Vietnam or whatever century we're in.

I do not think it was ever a matter of the century they were in. But just an evolution from the former type of gov't. If you have ever been in a communist country that is just the way they did it. Many things have evolved and will. There was a time when all you saw for advertisement were for the state. Now you can see Coke adds and many others. Will take many decades to change.

Vagabondone wrote:

If you have ever been in a communist country that is just the way they did it.

Actually, I think the red book concept comes from imperial China.  It is a tool for totalitarian control more than ideological control.  It simply worked well for communist regimes.  Still it is inevitable that it had to go.  This is particularly true for Vietnam where there is so much N-S movement with the younger generations (or Bắc-Nam).   There are also many people living in apartments rather than directly tied to the land.

I think maybe they should rethink getting rid of the ID card.   We need a national ID in the US.  Now the Vietnamese can have the pleasure of having their new national number hacked on the internet. 

Bắc-Nam reminds me of a funny experience I had when I first taught.  I made a map on the chalkboard and put the usual arrow and cross with N at the top to the side of the map.  My class howled "Teacher. It's wrong" because they expected N at the bottom.

THIGV wrote:

Vagabondone wrote:

If you have ever been in a communist country that is just the way they did it.

Actually, I think the red book concept comes from imperial China.  It is a tool for totalitarian control more than ideological control.  It simply worked well for communist regimes.  Still it is inevitable that it had to go.  This is particularly true for Vietnam where there is so much N-S movement with the younger generations (or Bắc-Nam).   There are also many people living in apartments rather than directly tied to the land.

I think maybe they should rethink getting rid of the ID card.   We need a national ID in the US.  Now the Vietnamese can have the pleasure of having their new national number hacked on the internet. 

Bắc-Nam reminds me of a funny experience I had when I first taught.  I made a map on the chalkboard and put the usual arrow and cross with N at the top to the side of the map.  My class howled "Teacher. It's wrong" because they expected N at the bottom.

Red book isn't personal registration, it's for land ownership. The book in question is the Ho Khau the house registration book. I wonder what will happen in relation to foreigners, will they still have some type of book just for them.

One of the biggest problems is when you get married or want to buy a vehicle, you have to go back to the provence that you are registered in. Will the new ID change this, I hope so as it's a pain in the arse.
Next they should remove the special registration to have a foreigner reside in your property.

From the link:  "People without permanent residency – meaning whose names are not included in any ho khau – are also denied issuance of national ID cards, the fundamental document for every public service in Vietnam."  I once posed the issue to my wife of what does someone do if they do not own property and have no near or even distant relatives who will put them in their book.  She couldn't even cope with the premise.  In Vietnam, everyone has relatives it seems.  I suspect that with the move to the cities, the number of persons otherwise unattached to land and renting in cities would have grown to be unmanageable. 

Look at the article below the midpoint photo:  "It would cost the government a lot to develop the infrastructure needed to maintain good residential management after the abolishment of residence books and national ID cards,.."  It looks like the police will still be keeping records on where everybody lives but the records will more closely reflect the reality rather than the agrarian model.  If anything the records will be more accurate and efficient.   For locals there was a lot of slack in the old system.  For Expats, don't expect expect not having to have your landlord register you with the police soon.  It will just be in a computer rather than the "pink book."  Believe me, they are still going to want to know where you are.   

I have often wondered why the country that originated Floppy Bird,  kept paper and ink records but it looks like the government finally decided to make use of the available local IT talent.

It is certainly a move that will help the economy of the smaller town for sure. As it is now you must purchase a motorbike in the town where you housebook is. There are work arounds, but i doubt many go that route. It makes a lot of sense. But lets see if it happens. This has been talked about for ions.

Next scrap all the forms used at any government office. They are horribly written and poorly laid out. Have everyone fill them out online.

Now if they can just take 4 zeros off the currency.

QuidProQuo wrote:

Next scrap all the forms used at any government office. They are horribly written and poorly laid out. Have everyone fill them out online.

What makes you think the online forms will be any better written?      I think downloadable/printable forms will come first.  Vietnam has several already.  You probably will still have to go to the Party or police to have them input the info.  I may be surprised but I think it will be a while longer before Vietnam trusts its citizens' with online input.

The real question is what will they do with all the red stamps they no longer need?   

All in on dropping the zeros. Would also be nice if you did not have to go to a window or teller to get a form among these pushy folks. My word you just want a deposit slip or a transfer slip and you have to see a person at a window. Like they are printed on gold and people will steal the firm. Who knows maybe here theycwould stealmtgr paper and sell it to the scrap lady. Never thought to deep about the why’s but I bet this is the reason

Diazo wrote:

All in on dropping the zeros. .......... Who knows maybe here theycwould stealmtgr paper and sell it to the scrap lady. Never thought to deep about the why’s but I bet this is the reason

That's a novel and humorous idea but even in Vietnam, there must be a point where the labor to do something enters into the picture and makes an activity not worth someone's time.  Every deposit slip on a rack couldn't bring a 100VND coin from one of what I call the recycle bicycle ladies.  I suspect it is more the sacrosanct nature of pieces of paper that even potentially may have red stamps.

I suspect that most Vietnamese already mentally drop the 000's.  How many times have you had a seller tell you a price with either VN numbers or by flashing his/her digits.  Many transactions even drop back to 10,000 units.  Think about when you pull your motorbike up to the pump attendant. 

The only place where I ever saw coins or even 500VND bills was as change at Big C, because they end up with an odd amount when they charge VAT.   Small vendors can round down because they are mostly under the table anyway, but giving up an average of 500VND per transaction could add up to "real money" for a place like Big C.

Well let’s keep adding zeros then. But much to your surprise most countries that have gone through the same things have dropped the zeros eventually. So it surely is not a novel idea to much of the world. I sure would not complain. That or develope higher denominated notes. Would be nice to have, say, a 10m vnd note. Then you could leave the wheelbarrow at home when you go to pay the rent or other larger transactions. But then how many folks earning 5 or 10m a month would have a need!

Just dropping two of the zeros would make a hell of a difference.

I have some old 1 vnd notes that I collected from years ago, so it did exist before.

I love the money in Thailand:

1000 baht  == $30
500 (somewhat rare in change)
100
50 (also somewhat rare)
20  == 60 cents

That's it! Done!  plus stupid coins that you throw in the drawer.

Versus this nightmare of plastic bills, paper bills, all different sizes.
How often have I confused a 100.000 for 10.000?

500.000 VND == $22
200.000
100.000
50.000
20.000
10.000
5.000
2.000
1.000
500 (following somewhat rare except at Coopmart)
200 (the tractor!)
100 = less than one half cent

In Vietnam, the coins are paper. I probably missed some.
Expat life is so tortured.